New OC Thread (Welcome Aboard Eric Bieniemy!)

[Skinsinparadise]

It's not like this team has never had success with coordinators

 

I used to worship Gregg Williams.  Some here for whatever reason didn't like him, but lol, you are never going to get 100% consensus love for anyone.

 

Norv as a play caller i thought was fine but as a head coach "meh".  But if you don't have a QB than it doesn't matter how good of a coordinator you are.

 

Sean McVay.  Kyle Shanahan. And yes both had some success here.

 

Hey as much as Jay Gruden was trashed, his offense for a spell could move the ball, if I recall ranked third in the league in 2016.  Garcon, Reed, D. Jax, Crowder 

 

So the past here doesn't bug me about Bieniemy.  2 things though have to happen for sustained success -- Dan needs to go.  And Howell has to be decent.

Edited February 18, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[SkinsFTW]

16 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Sean McVay.  Kyle Shanahan. And yes both had some success here.

 

Hey as much as Jay Gruden was trashed, his offense for a spell could move the ball, if I recall ranked third in the league in 2016.  Garcon, Reed, D. Jax, Crowder 

 

So the past here doesn't bug me about Bieniemy.  2 things though have to happen for sustained success -- Dan needs to go.  And Howell has to be decent.

 

The bar is so LOW that "success" here is coaches who actually won 0 playoff games. And those were actually great coaches who have won elsewhere.

 

Bieniemy is going to have to be an alltimer. 

 

Either that or both the offense and the defense are going to have to be top 10 at the same time. Which hasn't happened for this team at all since probably 1991. 

[Skinsinparadise]

46 minutes ago, SkinsFTW said:

 

The bar is so LOW that "success" here is coaches who actually won 0 playoff games. And those were actually great coaches who have won elsewhere.

 

Bieniemy is going to have to be an alltimer. 

 

Either that or both the offense and the defense are going to have to be top 10 at the same time. Which hasn't happened for this team at all since probably 1991. 

 

The theme with this team under Dan and change.

 

A.  No QB

B.  Bad owner

 

That looms over everything.  It's not like Sean and Kyle weren't good here and just enjoyed success elsewhere.  Sean ran a prolific offense here.  Kyle's 2012 offense was considered genius.  Yeah some here didn't appreciate them until they left the building, same story with Gregg Williams but that's a different narrative.

 

Not saying anything you don't know.  But doubling down that a coordinator is not a fix all.  Can a hot coordinator overcome a bad owner and no QB?  Nope.  I think its funny for example when some attack Ron for hey yeah he went to the playoffs 4 seasons, and went 15-1 one season but hey that was with Cam?  How is he with name that scrub QB?  Well, how is any coordinator without the QB?  Bill Belichick looks to be just a guy coaching without Brady.   On and on.  Kyle might be reinventing the wheel on that but its not like he's had scrubs at QB.

 

When we had even good QB play for a short spell (just good not great) with Brad Johnson, Kirk, Alex, we won, not big, but playoff caliber at times.   And agree that we've not really had two good units cooking at the same time.  Gregg Williams defenses were mostly really good.  That unit single handily won that playoff game.  The offense did nothing.  

 

Sean's work and Kyle's work was juxtaposed with Haz, etc.  

 

I don't think Bieiniemy has to be a magician.  if they can make this offense pedestrian, they should win plenty of games if our third ranked defense repeats that performance.  

Edited February 18, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Darrell Green Fan]

How can you not root for a guy who had the balls to leave the Kansas City Freaking Chiefs for the Washington Commanders?  

 

 

[NoVaSkins21]

Intrigued to see who's is going to be part of Bieiniemy's offensive staff.  Here's hoping we get an infusion of youth and innovation.

[Darrell Green Fan]

1 hour ago, Riggo#44 said:

He's has been passed over by how many teams? Why? What do they know that we don't? Since when is this organization smarter than the rest of the league? Or did we just get incredibly lucky?

 

He has been passed over for head coaching jobs and we don't know why. He was not hired here to be the head coach.  

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Before we get into the Washington Commanders’ hire of former Kansas City Chiefs offensive coordinator Eric Bieniemy as its assistant head coach/offensive coordinator, we need to state the obvious: There is nothing  Bieniemy has to prove to be an NFL head coach that he hasn’t proven already. Two years ago, I busted a lot of the myths surrounding Bieniemy’s alleged lack of “hireability,” and it could easily be argued that in the two years since, he’s put even more on his resume.

 

Certainly more than Doug Pederson and Matt Nagy, Bieniemy’s two predecessors as Andy Reid’s primary offensive partner, but both Pederson and Nagy have had head coaching opportunities. Pederson is now on his second.

But here we are, with Bieniemy having to prove with this basically lateral move that he’s not just Reid’s errand guy, in ways that neither Pederson nor Nagy had to. If you want to say that this has nothing to do with race when Bieniemy is Black and both Pederson and Nagy are white… well, more power to you. The fact is, it’s shameful for the NFL that Bieniemy has to go through this dog and pony show to prove anything when he’s been the Chiefs’ offensive coordinator through a five-year stint in which Kansas City has never ranked lower than sixth in Offensive DVOA.

 

With that rant out of the way, it’s time to look at what Bieniemy’s offense might look like with the Commanders. He won’t have Patrick Mahomes or Travis Kelce, obviously, but there’s a lot to glean from Bieniemy’s time with the Chiefs when deducing what his offense will be without the Reid partnership.

The No. 1 thing Bieniemy should bring to his new NFL team, and it’s something be both learned from Reid and manifested on his own, is the superpower of adaptability.

 

The Commanders have nowhere to go but up. Last season, they finished 28th in Offensive DVOA — 26th in Passing DVOA, 29th in Rushing DVOA, 28th in the first half of the season, and 23rd in the second. So, as long as Bieniemy doesn’t completely blow this thing, he should be in line to… well, at least be considered for future head coaching positions before receiving coded and muted rejections.

 

A diverse and effective run game.

(Joe Camporeale-USA TODAY Sports)

The Chiefs struggled to establish the run consistently through a lot of Bieniemy’s time in Kansas City, which is interesting given Bieniemy’s history with the run game — he was a running back at Colorado, and for the San Diego Chargers, Cincinnati Bengals, and Philadelphia Eagles from 1991-1998, and he got his start as a coach developing backs at Colorado, UCLA, and then with the Minnesota Vikings, and as the Chiefs’ running backs coach from 2013-2017 — his first five seasons with Reid.

Maybe it was just a matter of getting the right guy. The Chiefs took LSU’s Clyde Edwards-Helaire at the end of the first round of the 2020 draft, thinking that he could be Reid’s next Brian Westbrook. That didn’t work out for multiple reasons, but when Kansas City took Rutgers back Isiah Pacheco with the 251st overall pick in the seventh round of the 2022 draft, Bieniemy had a talent he may not have expected. Pacheco didn’t get rolling until the second half of his rookie season, but from then on (Week 11 through Super Bowl LVII), he ranked fourth in the NFL in attempts (147), third in yards (748), tied for fifth in rushing touchdowns (five), fourth in yards after contact (453), and fifth in runs of 10 or more yards (14).

Moreover, Pacheco was the epicenter of a run game that could beat you just about any way it wanted to. As Bieniemy has been the main man with Kansas City’s run game for a decade, we may have to actually give him credit for that.

 

Now, Bieniemy has second-year man Brian Robinson Jr. as his primary back. Robinson, the third-round pick out of Alabama, ran 205 times for 797 yards and two touchdowns in his rookie season despite missing his first four regular-season games as he recovered from a shooting in August.

At 6-foot-1 and 228 pounds, Robinson brings a combination of power and explosiveness that most coaches would see as a positive. Bieniemy should have a lot of playbook fun with a back who can hit the edge and just run over people as Robinson did on this 24-yard run against the Green Bay Packers in Week 7.

You can also expect Bieniemy to displace run defenses with pre-snap motion in his new home. Last season, the Chiefs ranked fifth in the NFL with 311 rushing attempts with pre-snap motion, gaining 1,528 yards, 728 yards after contact, and scoring a league-high 16 touchdowns.

The San Francisco 49ers ranked first in the league with 394 motion rushing attempts… but the Commanders ranked second with 363, gaining 1,451 yards, 914 yards after contact, and scoring seven touchdowns.

Kansas City’s EPA per attempt with motion was 0.05, tied with the Baltimore Ravens for fourth-best in the league. Washington’s EPA per attempt with motion was -0.04, tied with the New York Jets, Detroit Lions, and Seattle Seahawks for the NFL’s seventh-worst. Still Robinson was able to get big gains with simpler concepts that shifted the run strength to a degree.

 

00:38

One can only imagine what he and Washington’s other backs might be able to do with the Valu-Pak of deception Bieniemy brings to the table.

 

[Professor_Nutter_Butter]

 

Apologies if already posted. 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[CjSuAvE22]

16 hours ago, Califan007 The Constipated said:

 

Why don't you think it will work out?

Because Dan snyder is still owner of this team, in fact this move reeeks of him.

[Redskins Reparations]

32 minutes ago, CjSuAvE22 said:

Because Dan snyder is still owner of this team, in fact this move reeeks of him.

I can definitely get behind the Dan hate but hiring EB fresh off KC’s SB victory is a huge win.

[RandyHolt]

1 hour ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

How can you not root for a guy who had the balls to leave the Kansas City Freaking Chiefs for the Washington Commanders?  

 

 

There must be a gofundme or support group happening as we speak.  I hope for his sake the sale happens quick otherwise he will be up against our generational dysfunction. Few thrive under Dan's reign...

[HigSkin]

 

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, HigSkin said:

 

It won’t. Some fans here just want to watch the world burn. I’m not even sure some of them watch football

[goskins10]

This is a great hire in every way possible. EB is a lgitimate OC with a laundry list of accomplishments. He has been passed over for HC they say since people are not sure how much of KCs offese is EBs (I think there are other forces at play but that's not for this thread). So he comes here where it's clear he is the OC in total. No sharing duties with the HC. He develops the game plan and calls the plays, all of them. And this team needs a legitimate OC, someone who is a leader of men as others liek ot refer to. He knows how to win. 

 

Will he work out here? No way to know. But either way as a hire on papqer it's a great move by the team and for EB. All the cvery valid reasons have been listed already so no need to regugitate. But of the options at OC, he and Zampese (for very different reasons) were my top 2 choices. Glad it was EB. Let's see how he and Howell mesh. 

 

Now, Dan just needs to sell the team. That is my only concern. The team starts winning with 2 very good coordinators and Ron leading the culture overall and Dan reconsiders. There are many reasons outside of just football I don't think that would happen. But until pen is to paper on a sale, I will be worried about Dan backtracking. He is just the kind of weasel to do that. Get the **** out of town already!

 

 

[HigSkin]

 

[clskinsfan]

This is a good hire for both sides. EB gets a chance to show he is capable of running an entire half of a franchise on his own. And the team gets a guy that is extremely detail oriented and stickler for details. That is what this offense needs coming off of Turner IMO. There are question marks on EB both on and off the field. I wont go into details about the off field stuff. That is for another day. But it is clearly hindering his ability to be a "face of the franchise" kind of hire at this point. On the field we really have no idea how he will call a game. So there is uncertainty here. We know he can help develop a QB. And that is needed in this franchise. Whether it is Howell or a future draft pick this team is going to go young at QB for the foreseeable future IMO. It is a win/win for both sides. EB gets to have a much more prominent face in the media as AHC. He needs this opportunity for his logical next step. The team gets a proven winner. I hope the relationship becomes a winning one. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

5 hours ago, SkinsFTW said:

6 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 

 

Yeah, anything they did I'd be here shooting it down, haha.

 

IMO he probably has a lot better chance than Scott Turner but watch the offense be good and the defense fall apart next year. It's just how it works in DC. Wile E Coyote still owns the team after all. 

I entirely understand being pessimistic, assuming any move they make likely ends up with a negative outcome.

 

I’m simply saying that the move on its face, comes off as rather masterful by Rivera.  This job is already a hard sell, given the state of the franchise, Rivera’s deal, and no guarantee at QB.  To can Scott and wait this move out tells me he knew he was going this route all along and had already set the stage for this long ago with Andy. Many of us, myself included - were expecting Zampese or Shurmur.  Adding a guy that’s been heavily ingrained- playcaller or not - with Andy Reid and the kingdom they’ve built in Kansas City, is big time no matter how you chop it up.

Edited February 19, 2023 by BatteredFanSyndrome

[SkinsFTW]

1 hour ago, HigSkin said:

 

 

I was potentially about to get excited after reading the first couple of paragraphs, then the paywall popped up.

 

Well, back to my regular everyday grumpinesss. 

[Warhead36]

He is without a doubt 100% an upgrade over Scott Turner. That's all that matters.

[wit33]

12 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Yep no Bruce love, sorry, for how he handled this team and for that matter FA.  Nada.  Zero.  I wrote tomes about it on the previous FO thread including about FO.  And I argued enough so if the arguments don't hit you with the benefit of hindsight, I don't think they ever will. 
 

 

 

 

12 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I'll sum it up this way -- some on that thread, the positive people about Bruce (you to some extent too) would say we got to appreciate Bruce is a real improvement over Cerrato.  That take hasn't aged well.  They both sucked.  But there is a reason why Cerrato beats Bruce in head to head fan poils, by the media or fan polls on twitter as the lesser of two evils -- and that was before all the sleaze FO stories hit. The reason is Bruce sucked including in FA.

 

Bruce brought the perfect mix of making this team boring (and not in a good way) coupled with incompetence and arrogance that put the finishing touches on the team's demise with fans.  If people want to think he was just carrying Dan's water.  I don't 100% agree.  But I am OK with that thought.  Dan is responsible and he's miles worse than Bruce.

 

But with the power of hindsight, I appreciate all of it because if not for his contribution to the demise, Dan wouldn't be selling the team would be my guess.  So in that context, I love what he did.

 

I was referring to salary cap management, nothing else. Bruce was below average on the field just like 70% of the rest of the league GMs. 
 

12 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

Like the idea that you don't want to believe what was offered for Kirk because it doesn't fit how you think things should be.    The same point applies here IMO, in your mind players don't care.  And i do agree that some don't but some clearly do and those with options everything being equal are inclined to choose elsewhere.  So you stick with it regardless of the facts.  Look there are things I think should happen and should be too.  But it doesn't mean its true.  I want this team to draft Michael Mayer, I can talk myself perhaps into thinking, they must be thinking like me.  But if I found out they don't.  Then they don't.  My thoughts aren't facts, they are opinions, and some bear out and some don't.

 

You continue to accuse me of not acknowledging facts lol 

 

Should I acknowledge this article below as fact and spew similar rhetoric your way? A Niners reporter states the trade was to swap first round picks. I’ve always and continue to be on side nothing clear has been reported and it’s been a bit all over the place. 
 

Also, Lynch was in charge. 

 

https://www.ninersnation.com/platform/amp/2020/1/7/21054867/the-49ers-made-the-right-decision-trading-for-jimmy-g-not-kirk-cousins

 

12 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

When you got Logan Paulsen flat out saying it’s an issue as to attracting players and he knows the FO believes that.  When you got agents saying it to Standig.  When you got an ex-player saying this is a place that other players he knows nevers talks about coming to.  When you go insiders saying they know some QBs would not consider playing here, including Stafford didn't want to come here among others.  All this stuff was posted on different threads, with video and various things to validate it. 

 

I would need to get more context there being an issue to acquire players. Obviously Washington signs players each season, some are good players with a competitive market—I’d ask him to explain why William Jackson, Curtis Samuel, Charles Leno or Fuller signed? 
 

Agents… Put their name on it. Nope, because their free agent will have a chance to sign in Washington. I can careless if an agent wants their players here, trivial in grand scheme. Just like I could care less Drew Rosenhouse used to love Snyder and Washington. 

 

12 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

And then doesn't even delve into the tomes of speculative stuff in addition to that including they didn't want to risk Wentz being released because if he had options he wouldn't come here.  Story after story like that.  Football Outsiders, an anaylitic based outfit even talked about players not wanting to come to Washington.  
 

 

This is normal protocol, teams trade for players to eliminate competition. 
 

12 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

To digest that and say its all BS and players really really want to come here, takes a lot of imagination 

 

This has never been what I shared, it comes down to money and opportunity to continue producing to make more money for the young free agent. Very rarely does where a player really want to play align with best money making opportunity—just not how it works. If all could play in Texas and avoid higher taxes they would. 
 

Texans, Bears, Falcons will win free agency this season. 
 

12 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

But bringing this back on point, I do think there is a good chance Bieniemy helps makes this place a desitination spot.  He's a national sports story for a reason.  I think he's a rare positive focal point for this organization and I could see players wanting to play for him.

 

Your logic goes from Washington struggles to lure players to now because EB it becomes a destination spot? I agree it can be this easy, but not sure how you can jump to this conclusion based all that we’ve discussed relating to young free agents. 
 

What about Dan?

Edited February 19, 2023 by wit33

[tshile]

4 hours ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

How can you not root for a guy who had the balls to leave the Kansas City Freaking Chiefs for the Washington Commanders?  

 

 

His contract was up. 
 

rumors are someone else was headed to the OC spot in KC. 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, wit33 said:

 

 

 

 

I was referring to salary cap management, nothing else. Bruce was below average on the field just like 70% of the rest of the league GMs. 
 

 

 

Bruce sheparded the Kendall Reyes era of FA, he played it beautifully, loaded up the roster with mostly useless cheap junk.  Yet was chesty about the team.  Earned the reputation of being the least trustworthy GM in the NFL, voted #1 most untrustworthy GM by agents.   He killed it with the cap-FA.  All of it. Brilliant managenment of the roster.   Again if it weren't for Bruce's contributions to this team's demise, Dan wouldn't be selling.  So as far as i am concerned he's a hero.

 

1 hour ago, wit33 said:

 

You continue to accuse me of not acknowledging facts lol 

 

Should I acknowledge this article below as fact and spew similar rhetoric your way? A Niners reporter states the trade was to swap first round picks. I’ve always and continue to be on side nothing clear has been reported and it’s been a bit all over the place. 
 

Also, Lynch was in charge. 

 

https://www.ninersnation.com/platform/amp/2020/1/7/21054867/the-49ers-made-the-right-decision-trading-for-jimmy-g-not-kirk-cousins

 

 

 

That was a blog.  Jay stated what the trade was.  Mike Jones said he talked to Kyle directly about it in real time -- both stories matched.   Not good enough?  Some blog has it nailed versus both parties who were actually negotiating the actual deal?  But I'll play it your way, the #2 pick in the draft even in an exchange would have been tremendous, that only ended up being Nick Bosa. But that's Bruce for you, he sucks at trades.  He's only the best defensive player in the NFL.  But lets again applaud Bruce for a job well done. 

 

1 hour ago, wit33 said:

 

 

I would need to get more context there being an issue to acquire players. Obviously Washington signs players each season, some are good players with a competitive market—I’d ask him to explain why William Jackson, Curtis Samuel, Charles Leno or Fuller signed? 

 

Did I say players wouldn't sign here?  I explained this point a bunch of times to you.  I'll do it one more time, after that I give up.

 

ANY team can get the typical player if they overpay.   Some teams have to overpay to get that player.  This is one of those teams.  But you can't build a roster well by overpaying everyone.  You above all people should appreciate the point considering how everything on the QB thread just about is driven by the cap with you.

 

I can go to McDonalds and offer $10 and get a Big Mac worth $5.  I flat out said that a ton of times. 

 

But no matter how many times I say it your comeback is dude you know we can get that Big Mac by paying $10, so there!

 

Yeah we can get guys by overpaying them.  But plenty of other teams either don't have to do that or if there is a bidding, plenty of times the bids are close and in those situations we lose out.

 

1 hour ago, wit33 said:

 

 

Your logic goes from Washington struggles to lure players to now because EB it becomes a destination spot? I agree it can be this easy, but not sure how you can jump to this conclusion based all that we’ve discussed relating to young free agents. 
 

What about Dan?

 

The idea that Dan is selling or might be selling I hope would be a selling point.  That's the underpinning of our offseason thus far.  You act like i am some weird guy on an island with the point that Dan is a detriment to lure players and coaches with OPTIONS.  But its borderline boring conventional wisdom -- I am stating the obvious that many observers have said.  The fact that I even have to debate the point is odd.  I am stating the obvious.  Water is wet.  

 

 

Edited February 19, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Llevron]

1 hour ago, tshile said:

His contract was up. 
 

rumors are someone else was headed to the OC spot in KC. 

Im pretty sure he has been on a one year deal every season. I know for sure his contract was up in 2020, 2021 and 2022 so his contract being up I think means very little. 
 

Besides that, I do wonder how Matt Nagey and his failed tenure as Bears HC plays into how people view EB. And it looks like he will be the OC in KC again….AND they are saying he may be the heir apparent to Reid. You would think, had EB been offered that opportunity, he would wait and take it. So there is some smoke there. Curiouser and curiouser.  
 

I, however, couldn’t care less. Dude is miles better than what we have had since McVay. I’m certain of that. 

[tmandoug1]

Deleted

Edited February 19, 2023 by tmandoug1