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New OC Thread (Welcome Aboard Eric Bieniemy!)

samy316

By samy316
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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

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I think the Chiefs mindset to beat the Eagles relevant to this.  In short, they had to rebuild their O line in one off season and were successful doing that.  A Cheifs beat reporter just talked about it on 980.

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2023/02/20/chiefs-players-on-the-play-that-set-the-tone-in-super-bowl-lvii

 

How One Simple Play Set the Tone for Super Bowl LVII

The Chiefs made their mission statement for their offense clear from their first play against the Eagles.

u’ll remember the reverse-motion plays that freed up Kadarius Toney and Skyy Moore for second-half touchdowns in Super Bowl LVII. You’ll remember Toney’s big punt return, and Patrick Mahomes’s scramble, and James Bradberry’s grab of JuJu Smith-Schuster’s jersey, and even Nick Sirianni’s fourth-and-3 decision.

What you probably don’t even remember now, a week later, is the play that every Kansas City offensive player and coach will mark as the one that set the tone for everything that would happen in the Chiefs’ come-from-behind win. Their very first play of the night.

The quarterbacks were apprised of the call in their normal Friday morning meeting, at the team’s Scottsdale, Ariz., hotel. The rest of the guys got it 24 hours later, as the team went through its Saturday walkthrough, encompassing the Chiefs’ “mock game” period, during which Andy Reid and his coaches give the offense its script for the first 15 plays. To say the guys were excited would be like calling Mahomes a pretty decent quarterback.

“I mean, we talked about it a little earlier in the week, saying they were liking the play and everything and it could be up early,” center Creed Humphrey said Friday. “Yeah, when we got the first 15, though, installed, and that was the first play, that got me fired up.”

The call: 36–37 Cut U EZ.

The concept: Old School.

The idea: Let the Eagles know what kind of game was coming.

 

 

The truth is, with what Reid, offensive coordinator Eric Bieniemy, offensive line coach Andy Heck, assistant O-line coach Corey Matthaei and quarterbacks coach Matt Nagy had emphasized for two weeks, and the way practices had gone, hearing the call itself could be seen as simple affirmation of the plan for the players. But since that plan diverged so drastically from the way Kansas City would normally play and countered how so many people have seen the Chiefs, knowing how the game would begin mattered.

On the play, a first-and-10 from the K.C. 25, Mahomes lined up in the shotgun, with two receivers to his right, one motioning in, and Isiah Pacheco offset to his right. At the snap, Humphrey and right tackle Andrew Wylie pulled left. Humphrey stoned Philly edge rusher Josh Sweat to create a crease for Pacheco, taking the handoff from Mahomes, and Wylie led him through it, ushering C.J. Gardner-Johnson out of the way.

Pacheco picked up only three yards. But the Chiefs were setting the tone—with the pullers taking two Eagles defenders out of the play, and Trey Smith knocking Fletcher Cox’s helmet off in finishing his block. The idea was specific to what the Chiefs wanted to do to Philly from a gameplan standpoint. It was also two years in the making.

Of course, Kansas City didn’t win the Super Bowl on a three-yard run with 10 minutes left in the first quarter. But listen to the guys executing the plan, and they’ll tell you it set the stage for everything that was coming over the three and a half hours to follow.

 

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KDawg

KDawg

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2 hours ago, CapsSkins said:

 

Not to open Pandora's Box, but 15% for QBs who have made the Super Bowl has been mostly anomalous for the past decade or so.

 

Here's the data I put together some time ago:

 

image.thumb.png.7468a17300275b2e6bf78426c92f03e0.png 

 

Looks like to win the Super Bowl you don't want to pay your QB more than about 12-13%% of your cap. With a cap set at 229M thats ~$30M.

 

Good luck signing most of these QBs for that. But I've always been on the "you can't overpay your QB because the rest of your team is absolutely going to be low end" for years. But at the same time you have the ol' "we have a decent QB now, if we let him walk we could wind up with a not so decent QB" juxtaposition to kind of play with.

 

I understand these QBs want the money for themselves, their families, etc. They want to take care of their people, set their kid's kids up for life with cash flow... But if I'm a really good NFL QB I'd like to think I'd ask for just about that 12-13% of cap number. I'd rather win than have $3M more/year when I'm making $30M/year. And I'm allowing my teammates to get the bag a little bit, too. Creates good culture. Then your endorsement deals go through the roof anyways. 

 

Daniel Jones asking for $45M is a little nuts, but franchise level QBs are costly. If the Giants think that's him, they need to sign him. But if they have any doubts they can't give him $45M. Thats about 20% of the cap. 

 

The Giants also can't offer that with the tag at 32.5M. 

Edited by KDawg
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CapsSkins

CapsSkins

Posted
Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

Looks like to win the Super Bowl you don't want to pay your QB more than about 12-13%% of your cap. With a cap set at 229M thats ~$30M.

 

Good luck signing most of these QBs for that. But I've always been on the "you can't overpay your QB because the rest of your team is absolutely going to be low end" for years. But at the same time you have the ol' "we have a decent QB now, if we let him walk we could wind up with a not so decent QB" juxtaposition to kind of play with.

 

I understand these QBs want the money for themselves, their families, etc. They want to take care of their people, set their kid's kids up for life with cash flow... But if I'm a really good NFL QB I'd like to think I'd ask for just about that 12-13% of cap number. I'd rather win than have $3M more/year when I'm making $30M/year. And I'm allowing my teammates to get the bag a little bit, too. Creates good culture. Then your endorsement deals go through the roof anyways. 

 

I think there are two imperatives:

 

1) You have to draft well so a good portion of your roster, including starters, are on rookie contracts.

 

2) The QB, team, and culture must all be good enough to attract ring-chasing vets. Some of these players will take less $ than they could get elsewhere on the margins to give themselves a shot at a SB.

 

1) and 2) together help defray the cost of the QB. If you're paying your QB 17% of cap when you only want to be paying 12%, that's a 5% deficit you need to make up. At a $230M cap, that's about $11.5M you need to re-capture from elsewhere. It's not easy, but not impossible if you have can work those other two levers. 

 

I will also add:

 

3) Know how to time your window and use the re-structure / signing bonus levers to punt cap hits to future years. This is high risk because you know the bill will come due eventually, but if you're on the cusp then it can help you get over the hump.

 

Edited by CapsSkins
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CapsSkins

CapsSkins

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2 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

That 12% magic number is not gonna be a thing in a few years once Burrow, Hurts, Herbert, Lawrence etc. all sign massive deals. Mahomes is already ahead of that number and will probably win more Super Bowls.

 

It's not a "magic number", it's an empirical average. Can those other QBs show you can win by taking up a significantly higher share of the cap? Maybe. Time will tell. Until it does, the data is the data. Nothing magic about it. 

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wit33

wit33

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5 hours ago, CapsSkins said:

 

Not to open Pandora's Box, but 15% for QBs who have made the Super Bowl has been mostly anomalous for the past decade or so.

 

Here's the data I put together some time ago:

 

image.thumb.png.7468a17300275b2e6bf78426c92f03e0.png 


Yup, 10% seems to be the sweet spot. I don’t think it’s coincidence that’s right around where Brady was for much of his Patriots career post rookie contract. 
 

Mahomes winning the SB with his cap hit is a testament to his greatness. The correlation between QB win value and cap hit should be highlighted more often. 

 

5 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I am ok with the 15% or below argument but have some exceptions to that, especially if its just a hair above, that's my version of Pandora's Box. 

 

But if you are going to push Bruce Allen's FO work or say this is a prime destination spot for players-coaches we got trouble. :D

 

If Daniel Jones gets a big number and Hurts gets 50 million plus and Dak is already at 40 -- if Howell ends up the guy we got a window here.  Hopefully the FO would be aggressive to exploit it.  To the Eagles credit they understood that they had a window with Hurts and got aggressive to exploit that.  

 

 

 


Fascinated to see what happens with Daniel Jones. This is precisely where an organization should play hardball and identify the QB may be teetering on line of entitlement. Guarantee him 8% of the cap with escalators available to get to 10-12%. 
 

The middling QB should have to earn elite pay. 
 

I know this is fantasyland at this point, but as you know, I’m curious where this level of QB market is headed. 

 

3 hours ago, KDawg said:

 

Looks like to win the Super Bowl you don't want to pay your QB more than about 12-13%% of your cap. With a cap set at 229M thats ~$30M.

 

Good luck signing most of these QBs for that. But I've always been on the "you can't overpay your QB because the rest of your team is absolutely going to be low end" for years. But at the same time you have the ol' "we have a decent QB now, if we let him walk we could wind up with a not so decent QB" juxtaposition to kind of play with.

 

Incredibly difficult position for the organization, ready for owners to take control and increase hardball approach with this level of QB. Owners have to be losing their minds at times with amount of money football people are telling them to pay these guys without consistent ROI. 
 

3 hours ago, KDawg said:

 

I understand these QBs want the money for themselves, their families, etc. They want to take care of their people, set their kid's kids up for life with cash flow... But if I'm a really good NFL QB I'd like to think I'd ask for just about that 12-13% of cap number. I'd rather win than have $3M more/year when I'm making $30M/year. And I'm allowing my teammates to get the bag a little bit, too. Creates good culture. Then your endorsement deals go through the roof anyways. 
 

 

It seems like a decade ago and beyond it was more of a partnership with QB and organization—gratitude by the QB. 
 

3 hours ago, KDawg said:

 

Daniel Jones asking for $45M is a little nuts, but franchise level QBs are costly. If the Giants think that's him, they need to sign him. But if they have any doubts they can't give him $45M. Thats about 20% of the cap. 

 

The Giants also can't offer that with the tag at 32.5M. 

 

Please Giants relent to his demands. Imagine Daniel Jones contract rivaling Mahomes for next 3 seasons lol 

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SoCalSkins

SoCalSkins

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3 hours ago, Fat Stupid Loser said:

Does anyone actually know how much he ran the offense vs holding the clipboard for Reid?  I've heard both, have no idea which it is.


Regardless of which it is, he needs to surround himself with coaching talent. Part of that 2 day negotiating period should have been for a large assistant coaching budget pool. All the good coaches have a ton of talent running the rooms with the position groups and a lot of up and coming talent as assistants and quality control coaches. I like Zampeze but that’s going to be his critical decision as to who is the QB coach going into year 1 with basically a rookie QB. If we are losing our WR coach to Arizona then he better have a talented one lined up there as well. How well this goes will be impacted by the entire staff and not just himself and hopefully he doesn’t try to do it all himself. 

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Voice_of_Reason

Voice_of_Reason

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58 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:

I like Zampeze but that’s going to be his critical decision as to who is the QB coach going into year 1 with basically a rookie QB.

This is a tough decision.  On one hand Zampese is familiar with Howell and if they have a good relationship, that’s beneficial.  And some consistency is good.

 

On the other hand, EB might want a QB coach who knows his offense so they are able to teach exactly what he wants.

 

Tough call.  

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