Welcome To The Washington Commanders Jahan Dotson WR Penn State

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Going Commando said:

 

I was low on Pierce perhaps, and far lower than you were on him.  I had him as my RB12 behind Kyren Williams and Kevin Harris.  Kind of went out on a limb ranking Williams as high as I did given where he ended up getting picked.  Felt he was more than the sum of his parts.

 

I felt that Pierce didn't have the history of production to justify ranking him higher than the guys I had above him.  Also felt like he was kind of slow to see things and make his decisions and start gearing up.  Kind of felt like he was a Peyton Barber, but those guys have value and clearly defined roles in the NFL.  I think Robinson is a much better player than him and I like the value of him at 98 a ton more than the value Houston got from picking Pierce at 107.

 

 

Pierce to me >>> Peyton Barber.  IMO he's the best pass blocker in this group.   He has IMO the most violence, M. Lynch style, in his running, if I recall he had one of PFF's best grades as a pass catcher among this group.  He had one of the highest yards after contact numbers in this class, where he scored even higher than Robinson on that count.  His lack of carries doesn't bother me.  Will see.  I had Pierce at 73, Robinson at 74 on my top 100 so kind of the same.  lol, I just noticed I forgot to include Spiller.  I had all three around the same spot in my mind when that pick came, I did mention I wanted one of those three just before our pick came.  

 

  I did like Robinson though better than Allgeier and Strong who you said you'd have taken over Robinson.  And I liked both players I thought more than most but to me Robinson is better.  But who knows with RBs its not always easy to predict who emerges.  

 

 

 

 

Edited May 9, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

That's why I want to throw him into an active volcano and then pour some gasoline down there with him.

 

It's not his opinion or his grades, or his work that I have an issue with.

 

It's the absolute arrogance to sit there and say

- CLEARLY my grade of 25 was right, there is no context, Dotson was a reach. DOWNGRADE.

- I had Mathis as a 3rd round pick xxx on my big board (I think it was in the 70's, but don't remember and not going back to look it up)  They should have traded down or picked somebody else.  DOWNGRADE.

-

 

 

I agree.  Some of us kick around, including me with our own rankings but its purely in fun.   I'd expect this team to have their own board and naturally they should have conviction in it versus give a crap what the media thinks of who is the best. 

 

Are the players for example going to visit Thor Nystrom and spend an afternoon with him?  Is Thor showing up to all the pro days and talking to the coaches who dealt with said player?Look i am not saying pro teams can't get it wrong, they clearly get it wrong all the time but so did the media.  The idea that the media who covers the draft are so much smarter than scouts who do it for a living and who have access to more information than the mock drafters is ludicrous.

 

And while i don't mind mock drafters grading drafts but i take it with a grain of salt.  Even guys like kiper have admitted its an odd exercise because the grades should come after these guys actually play.  But if Thor is grading a draft and craps on it in a big way, at least hate the players they took and let that guide the grade.  But he seemed to like almost every player.  so yeah mega strange on his end to be that obsessed with how they fit "his' board value wise.  Isn't the idea of a draft to get good players?  I guess that's a secondary at best objection -- apparently matching someone's draft board is more important.    

 

Using his own logic, if they swapped places between Howell and Robinson where Howell went in the third and Robinson went in the 5th, it probably changes their grade at least one letter. 

 

 

Edited May 9, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Going Commando]

20 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Pierce to me >>> Peyton Barber.  IMO he's the best pass blocker in this group.   He has IMO the most violence, M. Lynch style, in his running, if I recall he had one of PFF's best grades as a pass catcher among this group.  He had one of the highest yards after contact numbers in this class, where he scored even higher than Robinson on that count.  His lack of carries doesn't bother me.  Will see.  I had Pierce at 73, Robinson at 74 on my top 100 so kind of the same.  lol, I just noticed I forgot to include Spiller.  I had all three around the same spot in my mind when that pick came, I did mention I wanted one of those three just before our pick came.  

 

  I did like Robinson though better than Allgeier and Strong who you said you'd have taken over Robinson.  And I liked both players I thought more than most but to me Robinson is better.  But who knows with RBs its not always easy to predict who emerges.  

 

I just don't see it with Pierce.  You and Fresh got me to watch him more of his games than most of the other backs in the class, and his cut ups don't take long because he didn't play that much.  I could certainly be wrong, but I just didn't like him like you guys did.  He is certainly powerful and he plays very hard and seems to have great intangibles, and you make a good point about his pass pro.  I think that plus his short yardage utility could allow him to find a nice role in the league.  But I don't think he has the speed to win the edge and I don't think he has the vision to find space between the tackles.  Runs up the back of his blocks more than I like seeing, limiting potential runs, gets out into space and has to take a moment to figure out where to go and start gearing up.  You can see it on that famous rep where he got his helmet knocked off and still scored the TD.  Found himself in a ton of space and there was a moment of hesitation before he got going up field and it allowed the defense to recover on him and make the touchdown an uncertainty.  I also don't think he is the most aggressive skill player who was willing to assert himself in his offense, and that plays into his lack of production at Florida.  He'd rather block than catch the ball and he wouldn't offer himself as a target in off-script situations, and I got the sense that he'd rather fit in as a cog in the machine than be a weapon.

 

Strong was kind of a weird player.  Built much more like a WR than a RB really, and maybe only has a future as a hybrid WR/RB type, but there isn't a ready comparison to him in the NFL right now.  Kind of reminds me of a poor man's Darren McFadden but he never really caught on.  But Strong's speed is just so awesome that I couldn't count him out even though he felt a little unprecedented, and I think he ended up in an interesting situation in New England.  Very very crowded backfield, but they'll probably figure out clever ways to use him and get him in space.  Robinson's fit here is much more intuitive and natural than Strong's would have been.  We can just hand it off to Robinson 20 times a game and run our normal outside zone heavy run game and he'll thrive.

 

I was kind of taken aback by how low everyone ended up being on Tyler Allgeier.  I thought he had a good chance to go third round.  His instincts and vision and football IQ were easily the best in this class IMO and his production was fantastic.  Balance is excellent, power is good, and I loved his ability to make explosive lateral cuts or redirect at speed.  His combine really killed his draft stock and I felt that it wasn't a good demonstration of his athleticism.  He was one of my bang the table players and I could be wrong about him, but I think Atlanta got a nice little steal by getting him at 151.  But I am happy with Robinson at 98.  After Walker and Hall went off the board early, I think Robinson and Allgeier were the best remaining fits our offense and our roster needs as powerful one cut lead back candidates, and I'm glad we got one of them.  Not only that, but we got the fast one and he has the ability to beat the defense to the edge and produce more explosive runs on the outside.

[Skinsinparadise]

27 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

I was kind of taken aback by how low everyone ended up being on Tyler Allgeier.  I thought he had a good chance to go third round.  His instincts and vision and football IQ were easily the best in this class IMO and his production was fantastic.  Balance is excellent, power is good, and I loved his ability to make explosive lateral cuts or redirect at speed.  His combine really killed his draft stock and I felt that it wasn't a good demonstration of his athleticism.  He was one of my bang the table players and I could be wrong about him, but I think Atlanta got a nice little steal by getting him at 151.  But I am happy with Robinson at 98.  After Walker and Hall went off the board early, I think Robinson and Allgeier were the best remaining fits our offense and our roster needs as powerful one cut lead back candidates, and I'm glad we got one of them.  Not only that, but we got the fast one and he has the ability to beat the defense to the edge and produce more explosive runs on the outside.

 

Allgeier made my top 100, so I liked him more than most.  

 

I don't have the energy to relitigate some of the backs we didn't take.  But yeah like you, I am really happy with Robinson. 

[Mrshadow008]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Norwell and Trai Turner have been to multiple pro bowls.    And they got good depth behind them with Schweitzer and Charles.  Lucas IMO is an above average swing tackle.  I love the athletic profile of Chris Paul but i haven't watched him yet.

 

Like you, I am a big Scherff guy.  But I don't put in on the team that he left, lol i am not even blaming Bruce who did the first tag on Scherff.  Scherff clearly wanted to go to the highest bidder and felt FA was the best road for him to do it.  It's a business and some players are more mercenary on that front than others. 

 

I am glad that Scherff turned down their offer last year -- I don't want to pay a guard 16-17 million especially one who ie entering his 30s and misses 4-5 games a year.  But i do love him as a player.  But there are limits as for what i am willing to pay him especially considering his lack of durability. 

I agree with most of this i love the Norwell and Turner signings. My only quibble if you have to call it that is I would guess Schweitzer is your starter at guard and Turner is your depth. Not that PFF is the end all be all but they have schweitzer graded at 78.7 vs Turner at 69.4. If I remember correctly espn at one point last year rated Schweitzer higher than Scherff as well. Starting Schweitzer over turner also gives you the added familiarity of Rouiller, Schweitzer, and Cosmi on the right side. Obviously just a guess on my part of course.

[Going Commando]

41 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Allgeier made my top 100, so I liked him more than most.  

 

I don't have the energy to relitigate some of the backs we didn't take.  But yeah like you, I am really happy with Robinson. 

 

Fair enough, just spent months doing it and now the discussions are academic.  And I'm kind of hoping we don't really have to look at RB next year because Robinson and Gibson are killing it.  Also felt bad getting so off topic in the Dotson thread.

 

I think the point about intangibles is key for predicting Dotson's value here.  In a vacuum, and just comparing them 1:1, I think Burks and Metchie are more talented than Dotson as the other two members of my tier 1 who were still available at 16.  But Metchie's injury really puts him behind for us given our playoff aspirations and Burks didn't feel like as good of a fit here as Dotson will be.  I absolutely love Burks's fit in Tennessee, as I think he'll be their new AJ Brown.  But he would have fallen out of favor with our coaches for not keeping his weight down.  And he's very country and I could see him having trouble acclimating to the region.  DC is a hostile mid Atlantic city.  I'm not going to get buyer's remorse about picking Dotson over Burks or Metchie even if they become great players because to me that would be like getting buyer's remorse about ending up with Terry McLaurin instead of Deebo Samuel or AJ Brown.  We did fine even if those other guys ended up being a little better.

 

Between Dotson and Robinson, I can't remember the last time I've had such a high degree of confidence that two offensive skill guys we picked will work out and be important players for us.  Butler and Mathis with leadership potential, and Cole Turner getting rave reviews, and this feels like a five player class for us.  Some of them will get injured or not work out, and maybe none of them will be superstars, but I believe in the value of quantity for building a team.  A five player class would be a game changing draft that sets the foundation for a contender.

 

I hear you about the backlash from the Carson Wentz deal.  I don't usually pay too much attention to media narratives, but I get that the feeling underlying that backlash is that Wentz was a very risky move.  But the potential ceiling is also very high, and I feel like we did a good job mitigating the risk with a good draft, which included a hedge on Wentz with Howell.  And I think the pendulum has swung toward the offense in terms of our talent, to the point where most of our good players are on that side of the ball now, and the depth of each position group on offense is way better than on defense.  It'll take a while for them to gel and find their identity, but if we make the postseason it'll be on the strength of our new offense rather than our defense.

[Skinsinparadise]

48 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

Fair enough, just spent months doing it and now the discussions are academic.  And I'm kind of hoping we don't really have to look at RB next year because Robinson and Gibson are killing it.  Also felt bad getting so off topic in the Dotson thread.

 

 

I've of course been wrong before but it feels like the Robinson-Mckissic-Gibson combination might be the best we've had since the Portis-Betts days.

 

48 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

I think the point about intangibles is key for predicting Dotson's value here.  In a vacuum, and just comparing them 1:1, I think Burks and Metchie are more talented than Dotson as the other two members of my tier 1 who were still available at 16.  But Metchie's injury really puts him behind for us given our playoff aspirations and Burks didn't feel like as good of a fit here as Dotson will be.  I absolutely love Burks's fit in Tennessee, as I think he'll be their new AJ Brown.  But he would have fallen out of favor with our coaches for not keeping his weight down.  And he's very country and I could see him having trouble acclimating to the region.  DC is a hostile mid Atlantic city.  I'm not going to get buyer's remorse about picking Dotson over Burks or Metchie even if they become great players because to me that would be like getting buyer's remorse about ending up with Terry McLaurin instead of Deebo Samuel or AJ Brown.  We did fine even if those other guys ended up being a little better.

 

 

When I first watched Burks i posted on that draft thread that's my WR #1, i don't think i've ever had a player that slowly but gradually lost his standing with me as much as him but the more I digested the less I liked as far as him as a personality as to banking on success.  But if he stays focuses it wouldn't surprise me if he ended up great -- he strikes me as a boom-bust prospect.

 

Dotson had a weird ride with me, too.  I liked him during the college season and talked about him on the draft thread.  but once the college season ended I got bored with him and became more fascinated with other WRs.  But eventually I went back and rewatched.  And I recall even saying to you not long ago before the draft whether me and you are his only fans on that thread?  But he did have other fans and that built as the draft got closer.

 

I was somewhat convinced we would end up with London, Hamilton and Olave so i dove especially deep into them.  But watched Dotson almost as much.  And his personality was so impressive and striking on the Hey rookie show that I became a bigger fan based on that.  And hearing from beat guys already that the way he carries himself at camp reminds them of Terry makes me feel good about his prospects.   He seems like such a student in the game.  So determined to do whatever he needs to do to be successful.  He also seems so classy and likable.  All of that reminds me of Terry.  

 

48 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

Between Dotson and Robinson, I can't remember the last time I've had such a high degree of confidence that two offensive skill guys we picked will work out and be important players for us.  Butler and Mathis with leadership potential, and Cole Turner getting rave reviews, and this feels like a five player class for us.  Some of them will get injured or not work out, and maybe none of them will be superstars, but I believe in the value of quantity for building a team.  A five player class would be a game changing draft that sets the foundation for a contender.

 

 

Yeah in theory this team is loaded on offense especially if Logan Thomas is ready to start the season and Curtis Samuel can get healthy.    Cole Turner to me is almost as intriguing as Robinson and Dotson but i also recall TEs tend to take time to develop so i might have to slow my enthusiasm for him, will see. 

 

48 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

I hear you about the backlash from the Carson Wentz deal.  I don't usually pay too much attention to media narratives, but I get that the feeling underlying that backlash is that Wentz was a very risky move.  But the potential ceiling is also very high, and I feel like we did a good job mitigating the risk with a good draft, which included a hedge on Wentz with Howell.  And I think the pendulum has swung toward the offense in terms of our talent, to the point where most of our good players are on that side of the ball now, and the depth of each position group on offense is way better than on defense.  It'll take a while for them to gel and find their identity, but if we make the postseason it'll be on the strength of our new offense rather than our defense.

 

It's a high risk-high reward move.    I am good with it, I'd rather swing for the fences and bet on upside.   Wentz has a rocket of an arm and good mobility among other things.  He's been plagued by hero ball-checkered decision making especially in a big spots.  He's really smart, Eagles coaches said he has a photographic memory and is a relentless preparer.  So his downfall so to speak has been somewhat odd.  Some say he was the best Qb in the league from week 4-13 last season.  Earlier in the season he was playing on a fractured ankle and later in the season he had COVID -- for his meltdown game against Jacksonville, he couldn't practice all week because of COVID and that infuriarted Irsay. 

 

But I get the idea of Rivera putting himself on the line on this one so he wants to ensure it has the best chance of working.  Rivera is mostly beloved by the national media.  But the national media worships Chris Ballard to a much larger degree.  Heck even our local reporters can't stop lauding Ballard for his "honesty" even as he craps on Wentz and in my book he's in effect crapping on this team for making the deal.  To me its out of bounds to crap on any player who is now a member of another team -- let alone to in effect mock your trading partner.  

 

I like to go to one road game a season, Indy would be fun with the backdrop around that game.  but I am somewhat afraid we will lose.  I think you and me and maybe another straggler or two might be the biggest Matt Ryan fans here.  Seems like a bunch of others on the Wentz thread think he's just good but nothing special.  But IMO Ryan has been very good almost his entire career, to me he's a hall of famer. So in other words, I think the Colts with Ryan are going to be good. 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 10, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Dark Acre]

7 hours ago, SkinsFTW said:

Jerry Rice was picked 16th too. Eddie Brown and Al Toon were clearly the superior (faster) receivers picked at 10 and 13. 

 

What happened?

Joe Montana and Steve Young vs. Boomer Esaison vs. Ken O'Brien.

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

26 minutes ago, Dark Acre said:

Joe Montana and Steve Young vs. Boomer Esaison vs. Ken O'Brien.

And Jerry Rice is also about a million times better than those other guys.

[Forever A Redskin]

Interesting candid quote from the Bears GM on this year's receiving class when asked why they didn't trade up for Watson or Pickens:

 

“The truth is that while many were calling this draft deep at wide receiver, the Bears (and several other clubs) didn’t particularly agree with that assessment. They rated (Garrett) Wilson, (Jameson) Williams, and Olave highly, the latter being their top player at the position. They liked the polish of (Jahan) Dotson and thought Burks might have the highest upside in the class. But they knew they were not in play for any of those players, and saw the gap between that group and the next group as cavernous.”

[bird_1972]

On 5/11/2022 at 10:36 PM, Forever A Redskin said:

Interesting candid quote from the Bears GM on this year's receiving class when asked why they didn't trade up for Watson or Pickens:

 

“The truth is that while many were calling this draft deep at wide receiver, the Bears (and several other clubs) didn’t particularly agree with that assessment. They rated (Garrett) Wilson, (Jameson) Williams, and Olave highly, the latter being their top player at the position. They liked the polish of (Jahan) Dotson and thought Burks might have the highest upside in the class. But they knew they were not in play for any of those players, and saw the gap between that group and the next group as cavernous.”

 

Not that the Bears are world-beaters in terms of talent evaluation, but this seems to validate the Commanders' choice to take Dotson when they did. I was originally screaming for Burks but given the recent reports of him out of mini-camp having trouble keeping pace with practice, I'm a little more settled in on Dotson.

Edited May 14, 2022 by bird_1972

[SkinsFTW]

On 5/14/2022 at 1:26 PM, bird_1972 said:

I was originally screaming for Burks but given the recent reports of him out of mini-camp having trouble keeping pace with practice, I'm a little more settled in on Dotson.

 

[RWJ]

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 18, 2022 by RWJ

[Vanguard]

I’m really going to like rooting for Dotson.  All his interviews make you want to root for this guy.  Dyami Brown, this is your replacement.

 

This is the best highlight package I could find.  It shows a punt return he took the distance.

 

 

Edited May 18, 2022 by Vanguard

[duffy]

On 5/18/2022 at 7:43 PM, Vanguard said:

I’m really going to like rooting for Dotson.  All his interviews make you want to root for this guy.  Dyami Brown, this is your replacement.

 

This is the best highlight package I could find.  It shows a punt return he took the distance.

 

 

I disagree. I think they both look good this year. 

[Koolblue13]

I wouldn't sleep on Brown. We didn't have a QB who could make 90% of these throws last year.

 

He's not your every down outside WR, but he lives where Wentz loves to throw.

 

 

[HoggLife]

16 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

I wouldn't sleep on Brown. We didn't have a QB who could make 90% of these throws last year.

 

He's not your every down outside WR, but he lives where Wentz loves to throw.

 

 

And from what I hear Brown is a hard worker. Watching his highlights all I think is" Damn Howell has a pretty deep ball"

[philibusters]

My only problem with that video of Dyami Brown is that its mostly him just going deep so he doesn't show a variety of skill sets.  And then you wonder how that will translate because his 40 time at UNC's pro day was 4.45 (for comparison Dotson ran 4.43, McLaurin 4.35, and Curtis Samuel 4.31).  Certainly a solid 40 time, but not one that will scare NFL defenses.  And he showed less polished route running than say Dotson or McLaurin in college.  He is good at tracking the ball, but whether you can just go deep with him probably depends on the match he has.  That said with Dotson and Samuel back, he may get better matchups.

Edited May 22, 2022 by philibusters

[Koolblue13]

57 minutes ago, philibusters said:

My only problem with that video of Dyami Brown is that its mostly him just going deep so he doesn't show a variety of skill sets.  And then you wonder how that will translate because his 40 time at UNC's pro day was 4.45 (for comparison Dotson ran 4.43, McLaurin 4.35, and Curtis Samuel 4.31).  Certainly a solid 40 time, but not one that will scare NFL defenses.  And he showed less polished route running than say Dotson or McLaurin in college.  He is good at tracking the ball, but whether you can just go deep with him probably depends on the match he has.  That said with Dotson and Samuel back, he may get better matchups.

Yeah, I mean he is WR3/4 and deep balls is where he'll live. I read somewhere,  that he had one of the highest averages for yards off the LoS per play last year or something like that. He may not have the fastest 40, but he knows how to get deep and fast.

[evmiii]

Everybody should get better matchups.  With potentially Terry, Samuel, Johan and Dyami on the field at one time somebody’s got to be open.  If Wentz can find that guy it’s going to be a fun year.

[Koolblue13]

8 minutes ago, evmiii said:

Everybody should get better matchups.  With potentially Terry, Samuel, Johan and Dyami on the field at one time somebody’s got to be open.  If Wentz can find that guy it’s going to be a fun year.

and McKissic,Gibson and Bates are all solid WRs underneath, too.

 

I'd be really shocked if our offense doesn't pop off.

[mistertim]

8 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

Yeah, I mean he is WR3/4 and deep balls is where he'll live. I read somewhere,  that he had one of the highest averages for yards off the LoS per play last year or something like that. He may not have the fastest 40, but he knows how to get deep and fast.

 

Yeah and honestly, if you get a good quality starting WR3 out of a 3rd round pick, that's a win. I think our perspective on 3rd round WRs has been a bit skewed by finding Terry, but the vast majority of 3rd round WRs don't do diddly squat. Terry is by far an anomaly.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Commander Chaaarmnder]

The 2nd coming of a Jameson Crowder is upon us.  

[Conn]

48 minutes ago, Commander Chaaarmnder said:

The 2nd coming of a Jameson Crowder is upon us.  

We’re ****ed if that’s the case. That would be an extremely disappointing outcome for a 1st round pick.