Welcome To The Washington Commanders Jahan Dotson WR Penn State

[HigSkin]

 

[HigSkin]

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Listening to a couple of reporters talk about dotson from minicamp, there is a lot of early Terry kind of vibes -- comes off uber professional both on the field and in interviews.

 

 

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

11 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Listening to a couple of reporters talk about dotson from minicamp, there is a lot of early Terry kind of vibes -- comes off uber professional both on the field and in interviews.

 

 

 

Do you mean Mel, Todd and The Mighty Thor might have been wrong and it's possible Dotson was a better prospect, or at least better fit for the Commanders than Olave, Wilson or one of the others?

 

That can't be.  They all said they were right.  That must be true, right? If they said they were right, then they have to be right.  If they said they were right and he was a tier below, even a guy who has a torn ACL and might never be the same (or might be, we don't know, you never know) he had to be in that second tier, right?

 

How can the "experts" be wrong? Everything they predict always comes true.  Always.

 

This message brought to you by Mel Kiper's grooming products, which includes hairspray and hair gel.   (And I like Mel.)

/Sarcasm

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Do you mean Mel, Todd and The Mighty Thor might have been wrong and it's possible Dotson was a better prospect, or at least better fit for the Commanders than Olave, Wilson or one of the others?

 

That can't be.  They all said they were right.  That must be true, right? If they said they were right, then they have to be right.  If they said they were right and he was a tier below, even a guy who has a torn ACL and might never be the same (or might be, we don't know, you never know) he had to be in that second tier, right?

 

How can the "experts" be wrong? Everything they predict always comes true.  Always.

 

This message brought to you by Mel Kiper's grooming products, which includes hairspray and hair gel.   (And I like Mel.)

/Sarcasm

 

the funny thing is even if you follow the draftniks on Dotson, the main criticism is that to them he went 4-6 picks too early.  OK so they want them to trade down and take their chances that Dotson would still be there.  OK but why should they take that chance?  will see if they are right but the main difference that the Commanders apparently had with some draftniks especially the "Mighty Thor" is they put Dotson is that same first tier with Olave, Wilson, Williams, London.  And they saw a drop off after that.   Some draftniks saw the drop off after Olave and Dotson was in the next tier below.

 

I mentioned this on the draft thread before the draft while watching the Hey Rookie series which gives you a window into these guys personality that Dotson really stands out on that show as an uber professional, good dude, from a good family -- sometimes its hard to tell about some players watching that show but with Dotson it was plain as day.  I said the year before watching that same show that Micah Parsons might not be the ogre that some deduced he might be -- on that show, he came off uber compeititve in a good way and charismatic as heck and people around him gravitated to him.

 

Ironically Parsons and Dotson are close.  The last Hey Rookie show featured Parsons face timing Dotson, on draft morning, telling him he thinks/hopes he ends up a Cowboy.  Dotson is much more low key than Parsons.  But like Parsons he comes off uber competitive and focused.

 

I delved into Olave's personality plenty before the draft because i thought he might end up here.  I thought Olave was a hair better than Dotson as a player but to me they were in that same strata.  But now that I've digested Dotson even more, I think I'd actually go Dotson over Olave as to the total package because I am big into intangibles. 

 

As you know, Cooley loves doing player evaluation stuff and he's really good at it.  Among other things, he was one of the rare people who thought Josh Allen was the best QB in that class, TJ Watt the best pass rusher, etc.  And he's trashed his share of players signed or drafted here over the years.  He loves Dotson.  But the bigger thing for me related to Cooley is he believes the #1 attribute for success is love of the game.  You need that to work towards excellence,

 

And while I admit watching interviews and listening to people who covered players might not always give you the full picture of a player's personality.  It sometimes does.  And Olave hits me as a B level personality as to love of the game-determination to be great.  I liked a lot of what i heard but wasn't blown away. 

 

With Dotson i am blown away,  A plus level professional-determination.  And this isn't me just being a homer, I talked about it for weeks leading up to that draft about how Dotson comes off impressive as a person/professional. 

 

I liked some of the interviews of the prospects they drafted last year.  But none blew me away the way Dotson comes across.   The last to do that for me is Terry.  On a side note, they seem to get some jubilant-energetic personalities in this mix of this draft class which is unusual for this team which seems are primarily quiet-introverted types.  Mathis, Butler, Robinson seem mega extroverts.  To an extent Turner, too.  Dotson comes off more quiet like Terry but uber impressive

 

 

 

Edited May 9, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Voice_of_Reason]

@Skinsinparadise Careful SIP, the Mighty Thor might come after you because you didn't follow his draft board exactly, because everybody knows that if you're even 2 spots away from his golden Big Board, you are a fool, an idiot, unqualified, and should be dusting furniture for a living.

 

"I had him in my top 25, but at the end.  16 is too high."

 

This is the type of idiotic, uneducated, ridiculous comment from somebody who works only in the theoretical and not in the practical, and has never had any responsibility to actually make any real meaningful decisions in real life.

 

The fool. 

 

He has drawn my ire, and I shall lambast him forever.  I think I'm going to start a burner twitter account and start dropping twitter bombs on him.     

[Going Commando]

I think Olave is a little better than Dotson.  Mainly he's just faster than Dotson, but Olave was a reach at 11 too and trading down and getting Dotson + those mid rounders is getting way more draft value than just getting Olave would have been IMO.

 

Brian Robinson could end up being the best player we got from our draft class.  After Hall and Walker went off the board before 47, RB was tricky.  We got a big one-cut beast who fits perfectly into our offense and I'm so glad we didn't end up having to settle for Isaiah Spiller.  It was the difference between getting a back who can win the edge and has a chance to be a difference maker vs just another slow guy we'd be looking to upgrade in a year or two.

 

So just on the Robinson pick alone, trading down and getting him + Dotson feels >> staying put and picking Olave.  Cole Turner is pretty nice bonus value too.

[SkinsFTW]

Well if you are going to take a player "a little high" then this year WR seems to be the position to do it with. QB, WR, LT, pass rusher, are the highest paid players.

 

People might be right on crying about taking a LB, G, or RB "a little high" but you can't really complain when most people accept that KC or GB were going to take this guy very soon after the 16th pick and may have even traded up to do it. Hell, they may have tried to trade with Rivera.

 

Last years first was definitely a reach, should have traded down for that guy pick, but not this one.

[SkinsFTW]

3 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

I think Olave is a little better than Dotson.  Mainly he's just faster than Dotson

 

Wasn't he like .4 or .5 seconds faster on the 40? Thats like a couple inches faster. When Olave is at the 40, Dotson is at the 39.5 yard or something like that, and thats not even in pads. OMG!

 

Jerry Rice was picked 16th too. Eddie Brown and Al Toon were clearly the superior (faster) receivers picked at 10 and 13. 

 

What happened?

 

Flip a coin basically but they got 1 of those top guys and apparently he works hard and wasn't injured, therefore clearly it wasn't a Doofus Dan pick lol. 

 

 

[Warhead36]

A reach is the Pats taking Cole Strange or when the Raiders took Clelin Farrell top 5. 

 

Taking a guy at 16 who projects to be around ~20 really isn't a reach. 

[mhd24]

35 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

I think Olave is a little better than Dotson.  Mainly he's just faster than Dotson, but Olave was a reach at 11 too and trading down and getting Dotson + those mid rounders is getting way more draft value than just getting Olave would have been IMO.

 

Brian Robinson could end up being the best player we got from our draft class.  After Hall and Walker went off the board before 47, RB was tricky.  We got a big one-cut beast who fits perfectly into our offense and I'm so glad we didn't end up having to settle for Isaiah Spiller.  It was the difference between getting a back who can win the edge and has a chance to be a difference maker vs just another slow guy we'd be looking to upgrade in a year or two.

 

So just on the Robinson pick alone, trading down and getting him + Dotson feels >> staying put and picking Olave.  Cole Turner is pretty nice bonus value too.

 

 

Would Robinson have been your #1 choice at RB with where he was selected (I think at that point Hall, Walker, Cook, and White were all gone).

[Going Commando]

15 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

A reach is the Pats taking Cole Strange or when the Raiders took Clelin Farrell top 5. 

 

Taking a guy at 16 who projects to be around ~20 really isn't a reach. 

 

It's not much of a reach, but what makes it a reach is if guys taken after him, who were ranked higher than him at the time (without hindsight bias), end up being better players than him.  That's where you pay the price of reaching.  But in Dotson's case, there probably won't be many players where that will end up happening.  The Jamin Davis reach was a completely different story.

[mhd24]

3 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

It's not much of a reach, but what makes it a reach is if guys taken after him, who were ranked higher than him at the time (without hindsight bias), end up being better players than him.  That's where you pay the price of reaching.  But in Dotson's case, there probably won't be many players where that will end up happening.  The Jamin Davis reach was a completely different story.

 

It's probably why LAC took Zion Johnson (clearly a need pick, but at the same time a good value pick).  He's ready to play, mature, and can play almost everywhere on the o-line.  They want to win now and he makes more sense than Penning did.  In terms of strictly high upside at 16 that fit a need and was slated at that range, I can't think of anyone we really passed on.  I figure GB would have taken Dotson at 22.  KC traded up for McDuffie.  They could have easily traded up for Dotson if he was there at 21.  We all loved Lloyd, but the rest of the NFL didn't.  

[Skinsinparadise]

46 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

@Skinsinparadise Careful SIP, the Mighty Thor might come after you because you didn't follow his draft board exactly, because everybody knows that if you're even 2 spots away from his golden Big Board, you are a fool, an idiot, unqualified, and should be dusting furniture for a living.

 

"I had him in my top 25, but at the end.  16 is too high."

 

This is the type of idiotic, uneducated, ridiculous comment from somebody who works only in the theoretical and not in the practical, and has never had any responsibility to actually make any real meaningful decisions in real life.

 

The fool. 

 

He has drawn my ire, and I shall lambast him forever.  I think I'm going to start a burner twitter account and start dropping twitter bombs on him.     

 

lol, I'll take Thor a little off the hook listening to his interviews considering one of his favorite RBs was Dameon Pierce, he was higher on him than most as was I.  😀  But he was really oddly down on Robinson, and IMO if you like Pierce like he does and as did I, Robinson is of that same brand.  Both RBs run violently, have sneaky good hands, good pass pro (Pierce the better IMO in pass pro.   I thought both RBs were perfect complements to Gibson.

 

Overall what really annoyed me about the low draft grade is he seemed to like most of their picks but just thought it should be closer to his board as for where they went.  So how can you gave them a D minus when you actually like most of the groceries they ended up with?   A big egotistical for him to believe that he sets the right value foir the draft.

 

Though his negativity, oddly though made him the toast of the Washington media -- Galdi, Sheehan, Grant-Danny all put him on their shows, whereas guys who liked their draft a lot like Chad Reuter got no play with the local media. 

[Going Commando]

3 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

Would Robinson have been your #1 choice at RB with where he was selected (I think at that point Hall, Walker, Cook, and White were all gone).

 

If I was locked in to picking RB at 98, then I probably would have picked Tyler Allgeier or Pierre Strong.  I had Allgeier 75 overall and Strong 80 overall.  I actually had Isaiah Spiller ranked one spot ahead of Robinson on my big board (99 vs 100) but I never felt good about that.  My head was trying to talk me into Spiller being a well-rounded prospect with an NFL ready game while my gut was telling me he was nothing special.  I didn't even really like Spiller in 2020 when their OL played much better and his film was way better.  He's just slow and didn't have any elite secondary traits like balance or power or elusiveness or vision to compensate for that lack of speed.

 

I had a lot of trouble ranking RBs 4-10 at the time, and if I were to do my board over again, I would definitely rank Robinson over Spiller.  Hindsight is already supporting that kind of revision because Spiller ended up getting drafted after him.

 

Early in the process Robinson was my RB4, and I can see a good case for him at that spot.  Tier 1 was definitely Walker and Hall, Tier 2 was White all alone for me.  So tier 3 was a mix of names for RB 4-8, and Robinson has good arguments over each of the guys in that range: he's faster than Allgeier and far more powerful than Pierre Strong and James Cook.  Pass pro is way better than theirs too.  And even though I think Zeus White probably is RB4 on pure talent and intangibles, I wouldn't have drafted him before the seventh round because of his injury history.

 

Fit for our offense comes into play too.  Robinson projects as a high end one-cut outside zone runner and is probably only matched by Allgeier in that regard.  He's a better fit for us than Strong and I think it's clear in hindsight that I was a lot higher on Allgeier than the NFL was, and it's probable that pretty much everyone had Robinson over him since he ended up going 50 picks later.  I would have been on an island if I'd picked Allgeier at 98 and it would probably have been considered a reach.

 

But if I were able to pick BPA and hadn't been locked into RB at 98, I would have picked Coby Bryant at 98 and would have ended up with Allgeier at 149.  I'm not sure if I prefer that kind of outcome to the real life one we got in Robinson/Turner.  Unless Bryant ends up being a home run player, I don't think there is much of a chance that Allgeier ends up being meaningfully better than Robinson.  I could be totally wrong now, but I think Robinson has a chance to be a star here and we're not going to be having buyer's remorse about him.

[Skinsinparadise]

33 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

It's not much of a reach, but what makes it a reach is if guys taken after him, who were ranked higher than him at the time (without hindsight bias), end up being better players than him.  That's where you pay the price of reaching.  But in Dotson's case, there probably won't be many players where that will end up happening.  The Jamin Davis reach was a completely different story.

 

Jamin Davis, who they are supposedly still high on, will see, was like the protoype they tried to avoid in this draft -- high traits, but unpolished, inexperienced.  This draft they seem to be going with high floor seniors who at least in theory should be able to hit the ground running.

 

1 hour ago, Going Commando said:

I think Olave is a little better than Dotson.  Mainly he's just faster than Dotson, but Olave was a reach at 11 too and trading down and getting Dotson + those mid rounders is getting way more draft value than just getting Olave would have been IMO.

 

 

Yeah it bascially amounted to:  Dotson, Robinson, Turner, Howell versus Olave.  I think we will end up happy with that.   I get the impression listening to beat guys that Burks was next on their board at WR after Dotson.  But they rated Dotson up there in the first tier of guys.  And Burks was to them the first 2nd tier WR.   But  if they traded down into the 20s they'd likely have missed out on both Burks and Dotson.  So they'd be going to their WR #7.   For me the best one left at WR would be C. Watson at that point. As for Burks, i liked watched him but had some concerns about intangibles.

 

I was surprised Wandale Robinson went so high and to some extent Pierce too.  Robinson was one of my favorite WRs for months but saw him more as a 3rd-4th round guy.    Pierce ditto, i thought he'd go early 3.  

 

1 hour ago, Going Commando said:

 

Brian Robinson could end up being the best player we got from our draft class.  After Hall and Walker went off the board before 47, RB was tricky.  We got a big one-cut beast who fits perfectly into our offense and I'm so glad we didn't end up having to settle for Isaiah Spiller.  It was the difference between getting a back who can win the edge and has a chance to be a difference maker vs just another slow guy we'd be looking to upgrade in a year or two.

 

So just on the Robinson pick alone, trading down and getting him + Dotson feels >> staying put and picking Olave.  Cole Turner is pretty nice bonus value too.

 

For me I wanted D. Pierce, Robinson or Spiller after the first 2 RBs were gone and said so before that pick came in.  So i like Spiller more than you do apparently.  But I was really happy to get Robinson.  Pierce was my #3 RB post Walker-Hall. 

 

The feedback from the reporters who watched minicamp is that Robinson looks thinner than they expected, all muscle, and he's quicker than they expected.  For a dude who is 225 pounds, 4.53 is impressive IMO.   And some misperceive him as a pure short yarage specialist.  He's IMO much more than that.   He's not a breakaway type RB but he can get his share of explosive runs where he gets to that 2nd level.  He had 22 15 plus yard runs.  He is a weapon in the passing game, too. 

 

1 hour ago, Going Commando said:

 Cole Turner is pretty nice bonus value too.

 

Like you, I watched a lot of these QBs, and Cole stood out to me when watching Strong.  He made my list of my guys for that reason.  i love that Rivera seems so hyped about him.  That's the dude that Rivera seems to hype up the most among this group.

Edited May 9, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Going Commando]

7 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Yeah it bascially amounted to:  Dotson, Robinson, Turner, Howell versus Olave.  I think we will end up happy with that.   I get the impression listening to beat guys that Burks was next on their board at WR after Dotson.  But they rated Dotson up there in the first tier of guys.  And Burks was to them the first 2nd tier WR.   But  if they traded down into the 20s they'd likely have missed out on both Burks and Dotson.  So they'd be going to their WR #6.   For me the best one left would be C. Watson at that point. As for Burks, i liked watched him but had some concerns about intangibles.

 

I was surprised Wandale Robinson went so high and to some extent Pierce too.  Robinson was one of my favorite WRs for months but saw him more as a 3rd-4th round guy.    Pierce ditto, i thought he'd go early 3.  

 

WR was tough this year.  I thought that there was a clear top seven, but I had a hard time differentiating between them and would have probably just have had a seven player tier 1 at the position.   I had all seven of the players ranked within 16 spots of each other on my big board, so it was a really big cluster and I would have been fine if we'd traded down and picked either of Burks or Metchie at 16, in addition to Dotson.  I think I am probably alone in having Metchie as a tier 1 WR, but he was in play in the first for me.

 

We were coming in at the tail end of a major WR run, and being locked into the position in the first, it was now or never since we weren't about to take Metchie in the top 20-25 and we apparently didn't like Burks.  I get why we did it, and there was barely any value to be had in this WR class because of how crazy the demand for them got.  I think every single WR in this class was reached on to some degree except for Metchie, Skyy Moore, Khalil Shakir, and Calvin Austin.  And some of the reaches were eye-watering like Velus Jones and Tyquan Thornton.

 

I just wouldn't have locked myself in to a WR early given the lack of value the position offered, but since we were, Dotson is a good outcome.

[mhd24]

16 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

WR was tough this year.  I thought that there was a clear top seven, but I had a hard time differentiating between them and would have probably just have had a seven player tier 1 at the position.   I had all seven of the players ranked within 16 spots of each other on my big board, so it was a really big cluster and I would have been fine if we'd traded down and picked either of Burks or Metchie at 16, in addition to Dotson.  I think I am probably alone in having Metchie as a tier 1 WR, but he was in play in the first for me.

 

We were coming in at the tail end of a major WR run, and being locked into the position in the first, it was now or never since we weren't about to take Metchie in the top 20-25 and we apparently didn't like Burks.  I get why we did it, and there was barely any value to be had in this WR class because of how crazy the demand for them got.  I think every single WR in this class was reached on to some degree except for Metchie, Skyy Moore, Khalil Shakir, and Calvin Austin.  And some of the reaches were eye-watering like Velus Jones and Tyquan Thornton.

 

I just wouldn't have locked myself in to a WR early given the lack of value the position offered, but since we were, Dotson is a good outcome.

 

If we wanted a super safe player at 16 and didn't go Dotson, then Zion Johnson probably made the most sense.  He's ready to play now and we get a potential young versatile o-lineman to play next to Cosmi.  It would have been a "boring" pick, but he'll be a good one.  You can tell he loves football.  He got rave reviews during the senior bowl practices for his maturity and dedication.  You always need to reinvest in the o-line.  Perhaps we knew we were going to sign Trai Turner as o-line depth, so we skipped out this year.  

 

Next year, assuming Wentz hits, we need to focus on CB and o-line.  

[Going Commando]

18 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

For me I wanted Pierce, Robinson or Spiller after the first 2 RBs were gone.  So i like Spiller more than you do apparently.  But I was really happy to get Robinson.  Pierce was my #3 RB post Walker-Hall. 

 

The feedback from the reporters who watched minicamp is that Robinson looks thinner than they expected, all muscle, and he's quicker than they expected.  For a dude who is 225 pounds, 4.53 is impressive IMO.   And some misperceive him as a pure short yarage specialist.  He's IMO much more than that.   He's not a breakaway type RB but he can get his share of explosive runs where he gets to that 2nd level.  He had 22 15 plus yard runs.  He is a weapon in the passing game, too. 

 

I was low on Pierce perhaps, and far lower than you were on him.  I had him as my RB12 behind Kyren Williams and Kevin Harris.  Kind of went out on a limb ranking Williams as high as I did given where he ended up getting picked.  Felt he was more than the sum of his parts.

 

I felt that Pierce didn't have the history of production to justify ranking him higher than the guys I had above him.  Also felt like he was kind of slow to see things and make his decisions and start gearing up.  Kind of felt like he was a Peyton Barber, but those guys have value and clearly defined roles in the NFL.  I think Robinson is a much better player than him and I like the value of him at 98 a ton more than the value Houston got from picking Pierce at 107.

 

I know what you mean about the misconceptions of Robinson's skillset, because I had them too until I went back and re-watched him post draft.  Zierlein compared him to Chris Carson and it feels like people think he's like that or a Carlos Hyde type of player.  But I think he's much more like Arian Foster.  Most of his wins are via elusiveness, not power, and I think he's been mis-characterized as this violent power back.  He's a one cut runner who mainly wins with a super fast first few steps and excellent decisiveness.  Maybe a little bit of Joe Mixon to him.  I think he's a feature back who we can give 20+ carries too, and I think he'll eventually supersede Gibson in the run game.

 

But I'm also a little concerned that we might experience a harsh dropoff in OL play this season.  We're kind of banking on Norwell or Charles to be an adequate replacement for Scherff and that doesn't feel realistic at all.  I'm a little worried about our offensive identity, especially since we don't have a lot of continuity there.  At least four major new pieces to implement in Samuel, Dotson, Wentz, and Robinson.  I'm hoping we can quickly settle into a relentless run-centric identity where we lean on Gibson, Robinson, and McKissic to power the team and take a lot off the plate of Wentz and Dotson early on.  Dotson is going to need time to adjust to the physicality of the NFL and Wentz is going to need time to learn his new offense and personnel to utilize.

[Voice_of_Reason]

2 hours ago, SkinsFTW said:

Well if you are going to take a player "a little high" then this year WR seems to be the position to do it with. QB, WR, LT, pass rusher, are the highest paid players.

 

People might be right on crying about taking a LB, G, or RB "a little high" but you can't really complain when most people accept that KC or GB were going to take this guy very soon after the 16th pick and may have even traded up to do it. Hell, they may have tried to trade with Rivera.

 

Last years first was definitely a reach, should have traded down for that guy pick, but not this one.

I'm still going to say last year wasn't so much as a reach, because there is absolutely no way to know if the next team was interested in Davis or not.  But I think they over-valued him for what they were looking for, and so I've called it a "blown evaluation."  SO FAR.  I think they wanted him to come in and play in the middle, and thought he had the athletic ability to do so.

 

And he might.  

 

But he had something like 12 starts in college (or some other small number) and I think they projected his value more than they should have.  

 

Could they have gotten him further down?  Maybe.  Maybe not.  Unclear.  

 

However, if they dropped his grade down because he wasn't really ready, maybe another player pops up to the spot where they took him, and he's not the pick because he's not the highest rated player on the board.

 

Anyway, that's how I look at it.  If they graded him at 35 instead of 19, then they SHOULD pick somebody else there, or they should trade down (big caveat, if somebody else has any desire to move up.)

[Skinsinparadise]

16 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

WR was tough this year.  I thought that there was a clear top seven, but I had a hard time differentiating between them and would have probably just have had a seven player tier 1 at the position.   I had all seven of the players ranked within 16 spots of each other on my big board, so it was a really big cluster and I would have been fine if we'd traded down and picked either of Burks or Metchie at 16, in addition to Dotson.  I think I am probably alone in having Metchie as a tier 1 WR, but he was in play in the first for me.

 

 

I'd be ok with Burks in a trade down (but I doubt he'd have been there considering he went #18) but reading the narrative about him there was more boom-bust to him than I orginally knew so I dropped him quite a bit on my rankings than where i'd have had him earlier in the process.  Apparently though they did like Burks according to Keim among others.  But they did like Dotson more and it sounds like a clear peg higher than Burks.   They according to Keim, Sheehan and others grouped Dotson is that same tier with Wilson, Olave, etc.  I wasn't that far off of their thought on it.   But as I continue to digest Dotson their thought doesn't seem off to me.  Dotson comes off like a special dude.  And I don't believe that every college player has that Rocky like drive.  I think some have it more than others. 

 

I mentioned it on the draft thread at the time but I sensed from Keim's podcast they shifted to be into a WR once they drafted Wentz.  Like always you got some politics likely involved with this team.  This team is almost dead bottom in fan attendance last year and was one of the few teams that had declining TV ratings. And they are rebranding.  And they are constantly in the press for culture issues as for the previous regime coupled with that bad press that comes from the douche owner's antics.  It's the perfect storm of despair.

 

Then for good measure, they made a trade for a QB that i didn't realize at the time (I am betting they didn't realize it too) is one of the most hated QBs in the NFL as to the national media which has filtered to our local media.  Wentz is supposedly a likeable dude.  But Chris Ballard and to a lesser extent Howie Roseman are worshipped by the national media -- their crap to them doesn't stink.  So if both teams moved on from Wentz, there is zero chance that both dudes who walk on water could be wrong. 

 

The irony is Eagle reporters have said Roseman didn't want to dump Wentz but Wentz wanted out.  Sort of like the Kirk situation here.  But that gets in the way of a good story.  So long story short, Rivera inherited a lot of bagagge with Wentz as to the national media who constantly ridicule that deal and for good measure Ballard won't stop pilling on too -- its rare to see a team make a trade and still crap on the player once they are gone and in effect crap on their trading partner but Ballard is basically taunting this team. 

 

So with all that gloomy backdrop, i think they decided they need to go all in to make that trade look good.  Wentz only once had a top 10 Wr group in his career and that was his best season by a mile.  So I think they are trying to double down on that idea.  To that point, I wanted a bonafide #2 WR.  An F-TE.  And either a #1 RB or a legit tandem type of RB.  In theory at least they accomplished all three things which I didn't expect to happen but I am pleased.  I also wanted O line help.  And at least in FA they seem to do that and double down on the O line depth that they had last year while doing so without the big cap hit they had last year for that spot.   Heck they even added a potential young QB to groom.  So on offense I think they did really really well for a change.   

 

As for what they do for the rest of the off season to me its defense, defense defense -- big nickel, LB, CB depth.  i get the impression that's their intention but will see.   If I were Rivera, I'd finish the job and get those defensive players.  I don't mind them waiting out releases, etc. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Overall what really annoyed me about the low draft grade is he seemed to like most of their picks but just thought it should be closer to his board as for where they went.  So how can you gave them a D minus when you actually like most of the groceries they ended up with?   A big egotistical for him to believe that he sets the right value foir the draft.

That's why I want to throw him into an active volcano and then pour some gasoline down there with him.

 

It's not his opinion or his grades, or his work that I have an issue with.

 

It's the absolute arrogance to sit there and say

- CLEARLY my grade of 25 was right, there is no context, Dotson was a reach. DOWNGRADE.

- I had Mathis as a 3rd round pick xxx on my big board (I think it was in the 70's, but don't remember and not going back to look it up)  They should have traded down or picked somebody else.  DOWNGRADE.

- I had Robinson as my 131st pick on my big board (I think I remember that correctly, actually.)  You could have had him later.  (Really?  Have a crystal ball, do you, Thor? Or maybe you read tea leaves?  DeLorean Time Machine?  No, then shut the eff up about "could have gotten him" crap.) DOWNGRADE

- (I don't remember the exact commentary on Butler, but it was "picked too early, I had him lower on My Golden Big Board."  DOWNGRADE

- Sam Howell, GREAT Value!  I had him as my 22 prospect (I think I actually remember that one right.)  He was my 3rd or 4th QB, but that's the only good value pick they made because it was a pick where my ABSOLUTELY CORRECT AND NOT TO BE QUESTIONED BIG BOARD said he would go sooner.  

** Then the dumbass said he thought they should have taken Howell in the 3rd or 4th because he clearly was the right pick THEN, instead of Robinson or Butler.  Whaaaaa?  HE DOWNGRADED THEM BECAUSE THEY PICKED A GUY IN THE 5TH HE THOUGHT THEY SHOULD HAVE TAKEN IN THE 3RD OR 4TH?  What MADNESS is this?  

 

And while I like Galdi, he didn't push back really at all with all of the ridiculousness.  Partly probably because Thor is a guest on his podcast, and my guess is he wants him back.  But also because he said Thor graded last year poorly, and he's kindof been right.  Which, fine, I agree, the class is somewhat underwhelming, so far.  

 

My issue was never with the grade.  It's with the complete arrogance of JUST grading based on HIS big board and all about his personal perceived "value."  

 

This guy just gets my blood boiling.  

/Rant (for now, I'm sure there will be more.)

 

[Burgold]

You guys are nuts. I had Dotson slotted at 17. Getting him at 16 is almost a criminal waste. What a reach!!!

[skinny21]

@Going Commando I’m not going to argue we won’t miss Scherff or even Flowers, but Norwell, Turner and Sweitzer (given how he played last year and the continuity he offers) look to be a pretty good group.  Then of course we get Roullier back and Cosmi should be improved.  All in all, there’s a small chance we’re better than last year (after Roullier went down), but a far better chance we don’t see much drop off, if any, overall.

 

I’m very much with you about Wentz and adjusting to a new system.  I’m optimistic about Wentz’s talent for sure, but I also want to be patient with him (and Dotson).

 

I find it interesting that Turner started pass heavy with TH behind center last year.  Yes, Heinicke had a lot of familiarity with the system, but he was also (relatively) inexperienced.  Felt to me that Turner should have started out protecting him a bit by leaning on the ground game.  Maybe that would have backfired.  I remember thinking “maybe Turner is going with a baptism by fire route to try to fast track Heinicke’s development/experience”.  I’m only bringing that up because now I have no idea whether Turner will try to “protect” Wentz (leaning on the ground game) or have him throw 50/game so that the team’s in better position to lean on him by mid-season (or thereabouts). I’m not explaining myself well, but hopefully the point comes across.

[Skinsinparadise]

58 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

But I'm also a little concerned that we might experience a harsh dropoff in OL play this season.  We're kind of banking on Norwell or Charles to be an adequate replacement for Scherff and that doesn't feel realistic at all.  I'm a little worried about our offensive identity, especially since we don't have a lot of continuity there.  

 

Norwell and Trai Turner have been to multiple pro bowls.    And they got good depth behind them with Schweitzer and Charles.  Lucas IMO is an above average swing tackle.  I love the athletic profile of Chris Paul but i haven't watched him yet.

 

Like you, I am a big Scherff guy.  But I don't put in on the team that he left, lol i am not even blaming Bruce who did the first tag on Scherff.  Scherff clearly wanted to go to the highest bidder and felt FA was the best road for him to do it.  It's a business and some players are more mercenary on that front than others. 

 

I am glad that Scherff turned down their offer last year -- I don't want to pay a guard 16-17 million especially one who ie entering his 30s and misses 4-5 games a year.  But i do love him as a player.  But there are limits as for what i am willing to pay him especially considering his lack of durability. 

Edited May 9, 2022 by Skinsinparadise