The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randal 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariota and Fromm battle for QB2 and so begins the Handsome Harem for Hartman

[Thinking Skins]

1 minute ago, DWinzit said:

I had Wilson, Dak and Cousins graded close to where they were drafted. Heck I actually liked the Cousins pick because he was BPA even though he was needed just after all the draft capital being used on RG3. QB's do get a slight extra nod because of the importance of their position. In the case of your example in Mond, I had him ranked 3rd-4th round. He was taken very high in the 3rd, that's not a reach. If we used a mid 1st or mid 2nd for him it's a reach, too many higher ranked players on my board,, many of them also filling voids in our roster.

but the first three are performing as first rounders, thereby outplaying their draft position. Hence they could have been drafted earlier and been valid. Its not about Mond because he's just a guy I like. But QB is that valuable that just like there are runs on OTs adn CBs and WRs, I can see a run on QBs and wouldn't be disappointed if we overdraft one to have a highly touted prospect in camp. Maybe he'll work out maybe he wont. But we need as many swings at the bat as possible if we're going to sure it up. 

 

My position on this has changed. I still think that you can win with lower round picks at QB but I think if you don't want to settle for the Heinicke / Allen / Beathard / Mullins type QB being your savior you have to repeatedly spend valuable draft capital on higher picks. Some will not work out (most wont) some will be overdrafted but eventually you will win. 

[DWinzit]

8 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

but the first three are performing as first rounders, thereby outplaying their draft position. Hence they could have been drafted earlier and been valid.

I have a problem with this statement because you  could use that theory with every player at every position...And I am not in favor of taking a QB in every round just so I do not possibly miss a star. Most won't even get a chance to play and I do need protection weapons and defensive players.

 

I have no problem moving up to get guy I target as seeing big potential. 

[Thinking Skins]

1 minute ago, DWinzit said:

I have a problem with this statement because you  could use that theory with every player at every position...And I am not in favor of taking a QB in every round just so I do not possibly miss a star. Most won't even get a chance to play and I do need protection weapons and defensive players.

 

I have no problem moving up to get guy I target as seeing big potential. 

So the last statement is my point. Its about moving up for potential. Sure the LB that Indy drafted in the second played like an all pro but how many games does a LB win you? maybe one? maybe. A QB has his hands on the ball every snap of the offense of every game. That's so much impact. Sure you can overdraft a Kam Curl but the value in doing that is not nearly what it is when you take a reach on a QB. 

 

Now I'll take a step back and say that historically I've been a spend low round picks on QBs and develop them but thats what the league is moving away from so I'm more about getting guys in at QB, giving them a chance and moving on within 3 years if they're not the guys like we did with Haskins and RG3 so that we're not caught in a Cousins or Daniel Jones situation where we're wondering how good they can be. 

[Koolblue13]

Saying you had cousins in the 4rth is saying you were wrong about him. 32 teams would take him in the 1rst round knowing what they know now. I actually called the pick in the draft thread that year. Got one right

[Warhead36]

I had no issue with the Cousins pick at the time. Its like buying home insurance. Worst comes to worst you don't need it, but turns out we needed it and it paid off dividends for us(getting three years of above average starting QB play is worth a 4th rounder when 90% of them don't pan out at all).

[HigSkin]

It was hard to read anything in to Rivera's comments yesterday on The Junkies but does give a little insight to how they make decisions.

 

https://www.audacy.com/thefandc/sports/washington-football-team/ron-rivera-on-potential-package-for-deshaun-watson

 

Ron Rivera on what a package for a Deshaun Watson-type player might look like

 

Ron Rivera won't talk about what the Washington Football Team would have to give up to trade for Houston quarterback Deshaun Watson. But, Washington's head coach is willing to talk about what he'd have to give up to get a player of Watson's caliber.

 

During his weekly appearance with The Sports Junkies, presented by F.H. Furr, Rivera was asked about the NFL's upcoming trade deadline, scheduled for Tuesday, Nov. 2.

 

Considering the "coach-centric" approach put in place when Rivera was hired in Jan. 2020, the coach was asked who — between he, GM Martin Mayhew, Executive VP of Player Personnel Marty Hurney, and team owners Dan and Tanya Snyder — would have the final decision to pull the trigger on a trade for someone like Watson.

 

 

"Okay now, let's make sure everybody knows, because I can't talk about a player on somebody else's roster right now," Rivera prefaced his response. "But if you were to make a trade with anybody in the league, the idea is you sit down, you talk about it. Then you go back and you watch tape. Then you go back and you sit down with the coordinator, and you talk about how that person would fit into what we do.

 

"Then you would sit there and you'd say, 'Okay, now, what are we willing to give up? Are we willing to give up some core players that we've put in place? Are we willing to give up draft picks into the future?' And then decide. Hey, if this is the type of package we want to offer, and we're okay getting rid of a couple of first-round picks we've had the last couple of years and a couple of picks to come, then you're willing to make that deal."

 

The Sports Junkies followed up by asking for clarification on who would make that final call, whether Rivera would have to present that deal to the owner(s).

 

"I guess now it would be [co-owner and co-CEO] Tanya [Snyder]," said John-Paul Flaim. "Right?"

 

"Well we would most certainly have to take it to the ownership and let them know what we're thinking," Rivera said. "And, again, at the end of the day, if the ownership is happy with it, we're gonna do it. But it does come down to my decision."

 

"I'm gonna try to get all the information, get everything I need, and make a smart decision that we believe is gonna help this franchise," he continued. "The thing you always have to be careful about too, fellas, is making a trade that's gonna set the franchise back — not a year or two, but three or four.

 

"Again, we're not in position where we're playing for the now, immediate, gotta-have-it, must-get-it-done. You know what I'm saying? I mean, we're not in that position right now. We're in the position of: Hey, let's make sure we're building it right; we're putting the pieces in place so that this can sustain it."

 

"We got into Carolina and, again, as I look at some of these things retrospectively, the one thing we wish we could have said was the picks after our first three drafts, how good were we with those to help sustain it?" Rivera said. "That's the thing that you have to look at, and we missed on a couple of those picks and that kind of hurts ya.

 

"So, we feel good about what we've done. We feel good about the guys that are in place. We see the growth and development. And you sit there and say, 'God, if we get this next piece into place, we'll feel pretty good about going forward.'"

[HigSkin]

Here's another nugget from yesterday's comments on The Junkies.

 

https://news.yahoo.com/washingtons-front-office-constantly-discusses-160019704.html

 

Washington's front office 'constantly' discusses plan to find franchise QB

 

Rivera understands first-hand how important having a franchise quarterback is. The head coach joined 106.7 The Fan's Sports Junkies on Tuesday and shared the team is "constantly" looking to find that star signal-caller.

 

"It's something you always talk about. Until you get one, you're always going to be looking," Rivera said. "You're wondering if anyone on the current roster is capable of developing. Is there a guy that's going to be out there in free agency? Is there a guy in the draft we could do something for to get? Absolutely, we're always talking about it."

 

In most cases, teams find their respective franchise quarterbacks through the draft. Tom Brady signing with Tampa Bay was more of an exception than the rule. Rarely do teams with franchise quarterbacks let them move on.

 

Although the 2022 NFL Draft is expected to be a weak quarterback class compared to the past couple of seasons, Rivera and his staff are doing plenty of due diligence on the group. Every week, the head coach receives a rundown of how the top quarterbacks in all of college football performed.

 

Last week, as Tua Tagovailoa trade rumors swirled, reports surfaced that Washington was interested in the Dolphins quarterback partially because the franchise isn't sold on the 2022 draft class. Rivera was asked his opinion on those reports and said he hopes they continue to come out, even though they aren't true.

 

"That's great. I hope everybody keeps reporting that," Rivera said. "Then everybody will think 'well, they don't need a franchise quarterback, so they won't worry about it in the draft.' ... There are [college] quarterbacks we like, there are quarterbacks in the NFL we like. Again, you have to go through this process."

[Skinsinparadise]

3 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

It's kind of our last dance as a franchise IMO, and who knows what's going to happen. 

 

 

Yeah agree.  And who knows maybe its me on another planet and not those people who act that nothing has changed.    And I am not saying they don't realize Dan doesn't bring baggage.  But the impression is I get is they believe its not anything worse than in the past and if Dan wants his man he gets his man.  Personally I think those times are gone.  We've had some dose of that type of reality in the past with the Zorn hire where Spags of all people turned the job down at the time.  But I think we are knee deep in the Twilight Zone now.  Yeahs ago we were entering that Zone.  Now we own that dysfunction at such an epic scale that any new coach coming hear (if Rivera is let go) will likely be seen as a loser just for taking the job alone.  So that way I think it would be some dude who no one would hire for a HC job otherwise, retreads like Herm Edwards or really obscure (not hot) coordinators.  

 

 

 

3 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

I

 

Although, if the league is somehow "forced" into pushing Dan down the toilet, a respected Ron and Aaron led team that you get to name has got to be pretty enticing to a possible new owner. Especially with a new stadium deal on the horizon. 

 

 

If that means Dan is out, yeah the whole world is our oyster again.  This franchise would be finally seen as normal versus the Adams Family on steriods. 

Edited October 27, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

@Skinsinparadise I swear, if we somehow end up with Herm Edwards at head coach, I'm blaming you.  I haven't heard that dudes name in years, but this is like the 3rd or 4th time I can recall you've used him as an example.  You're not wrong - he absolutely does seem right up the alley of where we'll be looking for head coaches.  Actually, it might be hilarious though.

[SemperFi Skins]

1. A. Rodgers

2. R. Wilson

3. D. Watson (assuming cleared)

4. D. Carr

5. S. Howell

6. K. Pickett

7. M. Corral

8. M. Ryan

9. C. Strong

10. M. Willis

11. D. Ridder

Edited October 27, 2021 by SemperFi Skins

[NewCliche21]

Man I did not realize until yesterday how drastically and quickly a real quarterback can change a team.  I was going over who is good/bad in the league with my six-year-old, and I said that the Cardinals had the best record (they had just picked a QB #1 overall a couple of years ago) and the Bengals were pretty good (Just picked a QB #1 overall LAST year).

I'm much more willing to give up more than I was even a few days ago and much more disappointed we didn't do so earlier.

[CobraCommander]

4 minutes ago, NewCliche21 said:

Man I did not realize until yesterday how drastically and quickly a real quarterback can change a team.  I was going over who is good/bad in the league with my six-year-old, and I said that the Cardinals had the best record (they had just picked a QB #1 overall a couple of years ago) and the Bengals were pretty good (Just picked a QB #1 overall LAST year).

I'm much more willing to give up more than I was even a few days ago and much more disappointed we didn't do so earlier.

[Skinsinparadise]

42 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

@Skinsinparadise I swear, if we somehow end up with Herm Edwards at head coach, I'm blaming you.  I haven't heard that dudes name in years, but this is like the 3rd or 4th time I can recall you've used him as an example.  You're not wrong - he absolutely does seem right up the alley of where we'll be looking for head coaches.  Actually, it might be hilarious though.

 

lol, no offense to Herm Edwards.  He was just the first guy for whatever reason that hit me that likely wants to coach in the NFL yet I doubt any other NFL team would hire him these days so if the WFT offered him a job, than why not?  Similar to Jim Fassel when he was out of the NFL.   That I think will be Dan's market. 

 

But what's striking to me is it comes off to me that some fans/media (on twitter in particular) put the idea of changing this regime without any consideration of the consequence of what that would mean -- as if this is a normal organization who can attract whomever they want.  I am with Sheehan who said when they got Rivera that outkicked their coverage.  That's not because Rivera was an elite coach but because the dude is considered by many as above average but equally important he's considered as someone known for his integrity.

 

Heck even Kyle Shanny who is cynical as heck about this organization and rightfully so said in the off season something to the effect of Rivera being a good person so he doesn't have the same level of ill will to the organization as previously.  And SF and WFT actually made a trade.

 

Rivera provides a veneer IMO of respectability that this organization desperately needs to cover for at least a minor extent the sleaze ball-incompetent owner.  You take off that veneer and replace Rivera with some scrub retread type coach or some really obscure position coach -- wow do I think that would be an exta nail in this organizations coffin IMO let alone if they struggle to sell tickets now, wow if they attempt a nonsexy type of a reboot. 

Edited October 27, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

32 minutes ago, NewCliche21 said:

Man I did not realize until yesterday how drastically and quickly a real quarterback can change a team.  I was going over who is good/bad in the league with my six-year-old, and I said that the Cardinals had the best record (they had just picked a QB #1 overall a couple of years ago) and the Bengals were pretty good (Just picked a QB #1 overall LAST year).

I'm much more willing to give up more than I was even a few days ago and much more disappointed we didn't do so earlier.

 

Keim was just on 1067 and took on Brian Mitchell on the point.  Brian tried to lead the witness (Keim) by suggesting that Rodgers wouldn't make this team a winner because of other holes on the team.  Keim disagreed.  He talked about how banged up GB is right now, yet they are winning anyway because he's so good.

 

Keim wasn't saying this is what he heard but his guesses typically tend to be good in part because he's admitted that he talks to people at the park who give him enough hints to help him make some good educated guesses.  His guess right now, is the same one I think is realistic and makes sense, and I know ditto @Koolblue13 and @KDawg among some others.  That is, sign a FA veteran AND draft a QB high.  His sense is it would be tough to attract a Rodgers or Wilson, etc.

Edited October 27, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Koolblue13]

Which choice potentially has more impact on this team over the next 10 years?

 

Trade a first for Rodgers or Russel

 

Trade 3 firsts for Winston

 

Sign Trubisky or Mariotta and use 1 or 2 1rsts on a top rookie QB.

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

I admit I am enjoying all the Sam Darnold meltdown talk.   It's been one of my only pleasures of the season thus far. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 27, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Koolblue13]

The Shadenfruede is palpable sip.

[FootballZombie]

1 hour ago, SemperFi Skins said:

1. A. Rodgers

2. R. Wilson

3. D. Watson (assuming cleared)

4. D. Carr

5. S. Howell

6. K. Pickett

7. M. Corral

8. M. Ryan

9. C. Strong

10. M. Willis

11. D. Ridder

 

After seeing a anonymous scout complaint pre-draft of "I want a QB w/ charisma, not some Mariotta-Bot" I will always pull for the guy. That's just finding points to ding a guy.

 

I don't think we can get Wilson or Rodgers foe one 1st. Them and Watson will cost 2-3

[Skinsinparadise]

It's being debated right now on the radio as for Watson.  Look I think he's a killer player.  

 

But can the king of sexual harassment-bad culture on steroids be the team that takes on the current player that at least in theory has their own mega sexual harassment type of issues. It seems like PR suicide before even jumping into the morality of it. 

 

To me it would like some 400 pound dude who just had their third heart attack trying to convince their spouse that things will improve from now on but they will start doing it by buying a chain of donut shops. 

 

I get the idea that the PR of the team is already down the toilet but isn't what they are trying to sell to everyone is that its all changing and Dan true to form is blaming other people for it who are now gone.  it doesn't jive IMO even with their warped PR efforts to double down on their problems with women. 

 

And again that's before even delving into the merits of this and if Watson is indeed guilty -- that's pretty perverse stuff IMO. 

Edited October 27, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Koolblue13]

Signing Watson would be akin to holding a shuffleboard tournament on the titanic.

[KDawg]

15 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

It's being debated right now on the radio as for Watson.  Look I think he's a killer player.  

 

But can the king of sexual harassment-bad culture on steroids be the team that takes on the current player that at least in theory has their own mega sexual harassment type of issues. It seems like PR suicide before even jumping into the morality of it. 

 

To me it would like some 400 pound dude who just had their third heart attack trying to convince their spouse that things will improve from now on but they will start doing it by buying a chain of donut shops. 

 

I get the idea that the PR of the team is already down the toilet but isn't what they are trying to sell to everyone is that its all changing and Dan true to form is blaming other people for it who are now gone.  it doesn't jive IMO even with their warped PR efforts to double down on their problems with women. 

 

And again that's before even delving into the merits of this and if Watson is indeed guilty -- that's pretty perverse stuff IMO. 

 

 

Even Miami has said they want to know guilt first. But now that they've shown their hand... Give us Tua for a fourth. Draft a rookie. May the best man win.

3 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Signing Watson would be akin to holding a shuffleboard tournament on the titanic.

 

After it hit the iceberg.

[illone]

I think the best way forward is to sign fitz for another year and draft the best guy you can to sit for 4-6 games. 
 

Definitely need to draft and develop someone like Corral or Ridder or one of those guys that jumps up the boards. 

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Maybe it's just me, but I don't see a move getting made for Watson - no matter how many rumors come out about it.  It sounds good for Miami to say they will trade for him but they want to know X, Y and Z before they do.  It's impossible to get to the bottom of all that right now.  This is going to play out for a while.

 

 

[SpacePenguin]

Can we build a robotic arm for Heinicke, effectively making him into a cyborg?

 

Hey, it's more realistic than Rodgers coming here.....and people talk about that.

Edited October 27, 2021 by SpacePenguin

[London Kev]

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

The Shadenfruede is palpable sip.

 

I derive no pleasure in pointing out your mistake, but the word is Schadenfreude 😀.