The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Est.1974]

6 minutes ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

Randal or Mantana? That's the true debate.

@Koolblue13 really has you by not changing that doesn’t he 

[HTTRDynasty]

 

[Command The 414]

1 hour ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

A foreshadow of a reunion between JD & Aiyuk? 

[TheShredder]

49 minutes ago, Command The 414 said:

A foreshadow of a reunion between JD & Aiyuk? 

That's a year too soon. Wouldn't anticipate Adam Peters 1-giving up draft picks for a WR that is looking to reset the market...2-adding top of the market Free Agents in year 1. 

He knows what SF wants and what they'll likely do.  Aiyuk is a guy that you add when you don't have a #1 WR or you're one piece away from making a run. 

Being Patient...

[MartinC]

3 hours ago, wit33 said:

 

The elite dual-threat QB runner opens up the opportunity to adopt a ground-and-pound strategy in today's pass-friendly environment. It makes perfect sense for the Steelers to shift towards a more athletic QB to focus on power football. The delay in this approach was likely due to Big Ben and a desire to avoid mirroring their division rivals' style.

 

 

Russell better step up his game and get in top shape if he wants to keep Fields at bay. He's gotta embrace being a dual-threat QB again if he wants to stay relevant; he’s a terrible pocket QB If that’s all he’s doing. Wonder if he's finally realized he needs to humble himself.

Russell Wilson played decent to good last season. He was far from the problem in Denver - but he just wasn’t what Payton wanted at any point. Wilson was doomed there the moment Payton was hired.

 

I think he will play well for the Steelers and they have the infrastructure and team around him where they could make some noise.

[wit33]

 

45 minutes ago, MartinC said:

Russell Wilson played decent to good last season. He was far from the problem in Denver - but he just wasn’t what Payton wanted at any point. Wilson was doomed there the moment Payton was hired.

 

I think he will play well for the Steelers and they have the infrastructure and team around him where they could make some noise

 

 

Roughly 30 quarterbacks could manage decently given the right support. Though, being paid league minimum and being a decent QB carries some value. My guess is the lockeroom will side with Fields from the get and it will require Steelers getting off to a hot start to avoid being benched for Fields. Not even sure Wilson wins the job. 
 

Full disclosure, never been a huge fan of Wilson’s. 

Edited May 4 by wit33

[mistertim]

5 hours ago, Command The 414 said:

Totally agree and share the same sentiments… to be honest I could easily see Fields taking the reins as soon as week 3-4… Arthur Smith the new OC has to be counting the time till then imho…. I actually think with their additions in FA and the draft they could content with the Ravens easily for the Division… but the AFC North is the best in the NFL I think…

 

How do you guys not realize what a ****ty QB Fields is? It's kind of amazing that some of you think Russell Wilson needs to "watch his back" or massive 1st round bust running back Justin Fields is somehow going to magically become an actual NFL QB and take the starting job.

[illone]

5 hours ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

Randal or Mantana? That's the true debate.

 
combine the two using neuralink. 
 

Rantana. 
 

 

[wit33]

31 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

How do you guys not realize what a ****ty QB Fields is? It's kind of amazing that some of you think Russell Wilson needs to "watch his back" or massive 1st round bust running back Justin Fields is somehow going to magically become an actual NFL QB and take the starting job.

 

 

You’ll come around in due time  

 

 

Honestly, I'd be shocked if the locker room doesn't start (if not already) leaning towards Fields over Wilson. Wilson will have to put his body on the line and return to running to not be a below average QB. 

[mistertim]

5 minutes ago, wit33 said:

 

 

You’ll come around in due time  

 

 

Honestly, I'd be shocked if the locker room doesn't start (if not already) leaning towards Fields over Wilson. Wilson will have to put his body on the line and return to running to not be a below average QB. 

 

Nobody is "coming around". I know you have a borderline fetish for running backs who cosplay as QBs, but the NFL doesn't, even if you live in a fantasy land where it's headed that way. There are basically 2 running QBs in the entire NFL and one of them is a guy who, after only 4 games, has already sustained multiple injuries that ended his season.

 

The other is a regular season hero who sucks balls in the postseason when teams have more time to game plan for him. 

 

And the only way anyone would lean towards Fields over Wilson is if Wilson was literally in a coma. Fields is a terrible QB. Good running back, ****ty QB.

Edited May 4 by mistertim

[TurningTheCorner]

5 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Nobody is "coming around". I know you have a borderline fetish for running backs who cosplay as QBs, but the NFL doesn't, even if you live in a fantasy land where it's headed that way. There are basically 2 running QBs in the entire NFL and one of them is a guy who, after only 4 games, has already sustained multiple injuries that ended his season.

 

The other is a regular season hero who sucks balls in the postseason when teams have more time to game plan for him. 

 

And the only way anyone would lean towards Fields over Wilson is if Wilson was literally in a coma. Fields is a terrible QB. Good running back, ****ty QB.

This is a very strong take, I’d take Fields pretty easily over Russel at this point. 

[wit33]

1 minute ago, mistertim said:

 

Nobody is "coming around". I know you have a borderline fetish for running backs who cosplay as QBs, but the NFL doesn't, even if you live in a fantasy land where it's headed that way.

And…

 

Adam Peters/Dan Quinn

[mistertim]

5 minutes ago, TurningTheCorner said:

This is a very strong take, I’d take Fields pretty easily over Russel at this point. 

 

Then you also must like running backs who cosplay as QBs. Passing wins in the NFL. Fields is a ****ty passer.

 

4 minutes ago, wit33 said:

And…

 

Adam Peters/Dan Quinn

 

Bet you dollars to donuts that Peters and Quinn want Daniels to be primarily a pocket passer and use his legs when necessary but NOT as a primary weapon like actual running QBs. They know perfectly well that passing wins in the NFL and that if Daniels runs as his main weapon it would probably be, at most, half a season before he's in the hospital.

Edited May 4 by mistertim

[TurningTheCorner]

5 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Then you also must like running backs who cosplay as QBs. Passing wins in the NFL. Fields is a ****ty passer.

 

 

Bet you dollars to donuts that Peters and Quinn want Daniels to be primarily a pocket passer and use his legs when necessary but NOT as a primary weapon like actual running QBs. They know perfectly well that passing wins in the NFL and that if Daniels runs as his main weapon it would probably be, at most, half a season before he's in the hospital.

Nope just watched Russel get discarded from two pretty credible QB coaches. He’s a shell. Fields finished relatively strong last year. An elite passer he is not, but he’s not some terrible player either. 

[wit33]

9 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Bet you dollars to donuts that Peters and Quinn want Daniels to be primarily a pocket passer and use his legs when necessary but NOT as a primary weapon like actual running QBs. They know perfectly well that passing wins in the NFL and that if Daniels runs as his main weapon it would probably be, at most, half a season before he's in the hospital.

 

 

How would you describe someone as "primarily a pocket passer?

 

Rushing and pass attempts? Yards?
 

Injuries no doubt are a concern, no argument from me. 

 

Edited May 4 by wit33

[mistertim]

42 minutes ago, wit33 said:

 

 

How would you describe someone as "primarily a pocket passer?

 

Rushing and pass attempts? Yards?
 

Injuries no doubt are a concern, no argument from me. 

 

 

Wait, how come whenever I ask you to give me specific numbers for what makes a college QB "dual threat" (for example in the Daniels vs Maye debate) you ignore me but I have to answer you when you ask the inverse?

 

I don't think there's a certain number of yards, just think of athletic QBs who can use their legs well but who's primary weapon is their arm. Mahomes, Allen, Dak, Love, Herbert, etc. Those guys can all use their legs and get yards when they have green grass in front of them, but their primary weapon is their passing ability.

 

There's only one successful QB who's primary weapon is his legs and that's Lamar. But as I said, he actually sucks in the postseason when teams have more time to game plan for him and can mitigate his running ability. Take away his ability to run and he's only a mediocre QB.

 

So yeah I'd bet that Peters and Quinn prefer that Daniels be like those former guys who are primarily passers first, scramblers second. For injury reasons and because running QBs don't win **** in the postseason if their legs are mitigated. Neither Peters or Quinn are stupid. They knows it's a passing league and that's how you win long term. Even in his post day 1 presser, Peters only mentioned Jayden's running ability AFTER he talked about his passing abilities, etc.

 

I know you really really want running QBs to become a trend, and you've said "it's happening" for years now, but it's just not the case.

[88Comrade2000]

3 hours ago, wit33 said:

 

 

 

Roughly 30 quarterbacks could manage decently given the right support. Though, being paid league minimum and being a decent QB carries some value. My guess is the lockeroom will side with Fields from the get and it will require Steelers getting off to a hot start to avoid being benched for Fields. Not even sure Wilson wins the job. 
 

Full disclosure, never been a huge fan of Wilson’s. 

Fields start and Tomlin has his first losing. If Russ is done, Steelers won’t be winning if they have to rely on Fields.

 

If Russ is cooked, Steelers will be looking for a new qb in 2025 and likely under a new coach.

[wit33]

1 hour ago, mistertim said:

 

Wait, how come whenever I ask you to give me specific numbers for what makes a college QB "dual threat" (for example in the Daniels vs Maye debate) you ignore me but I have to answer you when you ask the inverse?

 

All QBs these days, except for Goff, are dual threats—props to him for bucking the trend and excelling as a pure pocket passer. Elite dual-threat QBs come in all shapes, sizes, and speeds, just like RBs and WRs. Howell's got some serious rushing skills, running a 4.8 or 4.9. But let's be real, a QB with a 4.3 is a freak athlete at that position.

 

1 hour ago, mistertim said:

 

I don't think there's a certain number of yards, just think of athletic QBs who can use their legs well but who's primary weapon is their arm. Mahomes, Allen, Dak, Love, Herbert, etc. Those guys can all use their legs and get yards when they have green grass in front of them, but their primary weapon is their passing ability.

 

 

Comparing those guys to Daniels and trying to confine him to a specific mold is just not fair. None of them, except for Allen (who's a bit out of place in this discussion), have ever rushed for 400 yards. Do we really want Daniels to mirror Prescott, Herbert, and Love, who each barely hit 200 rushing yards in entire seasons?

 

 

1 hour ago, mistertim said:

 

There's only one successful QB who's primary weapon is his legs and that's Lamar. But as I said, he actually sucks in the postseason when teams have more time to game plan for him and can mitigate his running ability. Take away his ability to run and he's only a mediocre QB.

 

 

Let's look at Love, Herbert, and Dak's playoff performances. Herbert has a subpar winning record, while Love hovers around .500 for their careers. Just imagine the criticism Jackson would face if he didn't maintain a 70% winning record during the regular season. It's a bit ironic, isn't it?

 

Playoffs are difficult, ask Rodgers, the best QB I’ve seen in 20 plus years watching. 

 

1 hour ago, mistertim said:

 

So yeah I'd bet that Peters and Quinn prefer that Daniels be like those former guys who are primarily passers first, scramblers second. For injury reasons and because running QBs don't win **** in the postseason if their legs are mitigated. Neither Peters or Quinn are stupid. They knows it's a passing league and that's how you win long term. Even in his post day 1 presser, Peters only mentioned Jayden's running ability AFTER he talked about his passing abilities, etc.

 

 

Daniels isn't really in the same category as those other quarterbacks you mentioned. He doesn’t at all appear to identify with the dudes you’re listing. He seems focused on becoming an elite passer while also setting his sights on breaking rushing records held by the likes of Vick, Newton, Jackson, Fields, and Cunningham. He's even voiced his ambition to surpass their achievements on the ground. Daniel’s isn’t the number two overall pick if he wasn’t an elite runner. 

 

1 hour ago, mistertim said:

 

I know you really really want running QBs to become a trend, and you've said "it's happening" for years now, but it's just not the case.

Peters: “Take the souls of a defense”

 

Daniels: ”Turn on the Florida tape”

 

The QB position continues to evolve, with athleticism becoming increasingly crucial. This trend has been noticeable over the past 15 seasons, and it's a topic I've been discussing for over a decade. While there will always be varying degrees of athleticism and approaches, the baseline expectation for QBs to create, extend plays, and gain rushing yards has been steadily rising.

Edited May 4 by wit33

[wit33]

1 hour ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

Fields start and Tomlin has his first losing. If Russ is done, Steelers won’t be winning if they have to rely on Fields.

 

If Russ is cooked, Steelers will be looking for a new qb in 2025 and likely under a new coach.

 

 

You might be onto something there. I'm not saying Fields is a guaranteed success, but he does offer them a chance to adopt an elite ground-and-pound style of play.

 

[88Comrade2000]

5 hours ago, wit33 said:

 

 

You might be onto something there. I'm not saying Fields is a guaranteed success, but he does offer them a chance to adopt an elite ground-and-pound style of play.

 

Fields isn’t any good; if he was, he’d still be with the Bears.

[mistertim]

5 hours ago, wit33 said:

 

All QBs these days, except for Goff, are dual threats—props to him for bucking the trend and excelling as a pure pocket passer. Elite dual-threat QBs come in all shapes, sizes, and speeds, just like RBs and WRs. Howell's got some serious rushing skills, running a 4.8 or 4.9. But let's be real, a QB with a 4.3 is a freak athlete at that position.

 

 

Comparing those guys to Daniels and trying to confine him to a specific mold is just not fair. None of them, except for Allen (who's a bit out of place in this discussion), have ever rushed for 400 yards. Do we really want Daniels to mirror Prescott, Herbert, and Love, who each barely hit 200 rushing yards in entire seasons?

 

 

Let's look at Love, Herbert, and Dak's playoff performances. Herbert has a subpar winning record, while Love hovers around .500 for their careers. Just imagine the criticism Jackson would face if he didn't maintain a 70% winning record during the regular season. It's a bit ironic, isn't it?

 

Playoffs are difficult, ask Rodgers, the best QB I’ve seen in 20 plus years watching. 

 

Daniels isn't really in the same category as those other quarterbacks you mentioned. He doesn’t at all appear to identify with the dudes you’re listing. He seems focused on becoming an elite passer while also setting his sights on breaking rushing records held by the likes of Vick, Newton, Jackson, Fields, and Cunningham. He's even voiced his ambition to surpass their achievements on the ground. Daniel’s isn’t the number two overall pick if he wasn’t an elite runner. 

 

Peters: “Take the souls of a defense”

 

Daniels: ”Turn on the Florida tape”

 

The QB position continues to evolve, with athleticism becoming increasingly crucial. This trend has been noticeable over the past 15 seasons, and it's a topic I've been discussing for over a decade. While there will always be varying degrees of athleticism and approaches, the baseline expectation for QBs to create, extend plays, and gain rushing yards has been steadily rising.

 

Again we get to you talking about any QB who can run as a "dual threat". But what YOU'RE talking about is running QBs. Dual threat to me are guys who can run but who's primary weapon is passing. Stop conflating someone like Mahomes or Allen with someone like Lamar or Richardson. Those are completely different types of QBs. Take away Lamar's legs and he scares nobody as a pocket passer. Take away Allen or Mahomes legs and it doesn't matter because they're elite pocket passers first.

 

The mold I'm trying to "confine" him to are QBs who are long term successes in the NFL vs flash in the pan short career running QBs.

 

And why am I not surprised that you focused purely on wins in the postseason? I said Lamar plays like ****, not "Lamar hasn't won". Let's look at those guys in the postseason. 

 

Herbert. Small sample size, one appearance so far - 1 TD 0 INT  84.7 rating

Rodgers - 45 TD 13 INT  100.1 rating

Love. Another relatively small sample size - 5 TD 2 INT 108.6 rating

Dak - 14 TDs 7 INTs 91.8 rating

Allen - 21 TDs 4 INTs 100 rating

Lamar - 6 TDs 6 INTs 75 rating

 

One of these things is not like the other. Lamar sucks in the postseason. Lamar himself. He doesn't play well, mostly because teams with decent defenses can plan to try and mitigate his legs. He then has to at least partially win from the pocket, and he's utterly mediocre at best there. 

 

And fine. If Daniels is focused on setting running records and be like Vick, Fields, or Cam I look forward to a handful of exciting games and seasons before he's out of the league, likely with no Lombardi but with a handful of serious injuries. Those QBs don't really last and they neve won ****.

 

And the QB position has evolved into one where yes you almost have to have an athletic QB who can use his legs when needed to extend plays or run for some first downs, etc. But, again, you're not talking about that, you're talking about running QBs. The league isn't going in that direction. Mostly because coaches know that running QBs are mostly just flashes in the pan and the guys who last and are perennial contenders for a long time are the guys who are elite passers first and only use their legs secondarily when needed.

[Fat Stupid Loser]

9 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

Then you also must like running backs who cosplay as QBs. Passing wins in the NFL. Fields is a ****ty passer.

 

 

Bet you dollars to donuts that Peters and Quinn want Daniels to be primarily a pocket passer and use his legs when necessary but NOT as a primary weapon like actual running QBs. They know perfectly well that passing wins in the NFL and that if Daniels runs as his main weapon it would probably be, at most, half a season before he's in the hospital.

And we have seen this movie before here, not that long ago.  The similarities are frightening.

[skinsfan66]

10 hours ago, wit33 said:

And…

 

Adam Peters/Dan Quinn

Bears draft, Caleb W. same type QB as Russell and ditched the nonpassing, running QB Fields. When Fields can pass the ball in the NFL he will make it, J. Daniels has a chance because he can Pass the ball, like Russell has done from the get go. Russell has a ring too. They will have some running plays in Pittsburg for Fields like NO does for 2 QB's. Big Ben has rings too, that's what they want, if they only could clone him? The locker room will side with Russell if he has anything left, especially the WR's. That's my opinion on this matter. 

[skinsfan66]

10 hours ago, wit33 said:

 

 

How would you describe someone as "primarily a pocket passer?

 

Rushing and pass attempts? Yards?
 

Injuries no doubt are a concern, no argument from me. 

 

 (Rings) look at the QB's if they are not elite Passers there will be no rings. Elite runners can only get you so far, the passer trumps the runner in this NFL. Wilson, Mahomes, are mobile QB's that buy time and they have rings because they can pass the ball. The pocket passers still get it done too, mobile might be better these days too. But runners have an empty trophy case at this point. 

[Command The 414]

12 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

How do you guys not realize what a ****ty QB Fields is? It's kind of amazing that some of you think Russell Wilson needs to "watch his back" or massive 1st round bust running back Justin Fields is somehow going to magically become an actual NFL QB and take the starting job.

It’s just a opinion, it’s not fact… i just personally think Fields wasn’t given a full hand, 2 HC and 3 OC in his 3 seasons. At this time of their careers I think Fields gives the Steelers the best outcome at QB.

 

Edited May 4 by Command The 414