The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Simmsy]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

I don’t think it would take that long. 
 

Wentz overall was among the worst we’ve seen given the entirety of the package.

 

McNabb was a pretty bad RoI, too. 
 

I’m not going to count guys like John Beck. Dude wasn’t supposed to be fantastic. 
 

Wentz had a chance to turn the tide and be laid an egg and then didn’t give a ****.

 

"Oh gee whillikers! Did I displace that egg on the sidewalk myself? Ok, I'll just leave this rotten, goose egg here for someone else to step in and ruin their day. Salutations, all!

 

49 minutes ago, Dan T. said:

Speaking of that guy…

 

Again.
From 1994.  

Sad.

 

 

Hell, I can do that:

 

 

[ExoDus84]

24 minutes ago, RVAskins said:

I say use Logan Thomas as QB in this meaningless game.

 

I desperately need to see Jonathan Williams take the handoff, pitch it back to Logan Thomas, who then throws a wobbly flea flicker to Cam Sims that gets picked off.

 

It's the only decent way to send off the 2022-2023 season.

[tshile]

I like Lovero’s take

 

they should send wentz back out there for the last game 

😂 

[goskins10]

35 minutes ago, ExoDus84 said:

 

I desperately need to see Jonathan Williams take the handoff, pitch it back to Logan Thomas, who then throws a wobbly flea flicker to Cam Sims that he fumbles at the 1 and it gets run back for a TD to put the game out of reach in the final seconds. But Logan T. and TH get injured trying to make a tackle so Wentz - who for some incredibly stupid reason is dressed and active while Sam H is not - gets injured simply taking a knee on the final play making his 2023 salary fully gauranteed. Now that's how this team rolls!!  

 

It's the only decent way to send off the 2022-2023 season.

 

I fixed it for you! 

 

[FootballZombie]

Bonkers that there is even a question. It does not matter how ready he is, you send Howell out there.

 

Gotta see that man in live action not just to see what he has, but to develop tape he can spend all offseason learning from. It will greatly accelerate his growth, and give him the knowledge that he has stepped on the field an belongs. That can bring a whole new world of self-confidence and motivation.

 

Not playing Howell at this point is conduct detrimental to the team.

 

Watching TH get destroyed by Dallas 2.0 does nobody nothing. It does not even add vindication to the idea that he is horrendous.

[PolarExpress]

2 hours ago, goskins10 said:

I am pretty sure if Wentz gets injured they cannot release him which makes his 2023 salary fully gauranteed. So as @Jumbo said Wentz needs to be "sedated, put in a shipping crate, and sent to irsay's house." or something similar.  

 

If he plays even a single down, that should be considered criminal negligence. 

 

Let's see some Sam Howell!! 

 

If that is true about Wentz, why in the hell would Ron have played him anyway?  Now that was a dumb decision.  If he truly didn’t know we could be eliminated that day, why not just go with Heineke or Howell?  We desperately need some upgrades on the O-line next season and special teams has been completely lackluster.  Wentz needs to go.

[The Rook]

7 hours ago, El Mexican said:

 

Yes, but starting vs. Dallas seems kinda brutal.

 

Hopefully the rook has some flashes here and there.

 

Ok ... here ya go.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Rook

[Zim489]

2 hours ago, Jumbo said:

 

 

 

I would like to encourage all of you post voluminous amounts of articles on qbs you regard "mid level" for as long and often as you like.

 

It's what would be  a normal occurrence here or on any msg board anyway, but in this case it can be considered a salute to zim.

 

 

🥸

 

 

Lol would just be another file to add to the last 30 years 

[Skinsinparadise]

Listening to Jay right now on 106.7.   i have to say I am impressed with the level of detail he recalls from games, he's done it all season long.    he is as good or maybe better than Logan Paulsen at the anaylsis.  Right now he's citing play after play from Wentz.  He typically leans on the polite side of life when talking about coaches-players so when he does rip people, I notice.   No shocker but he thought Wentz was a mess.    He thinks Howell should start the next game.    He doesn't think Turner was the problem on Sunday, he thinks it was Wentz.

Edited January 4, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[actorguy1]

Guess it's back to rooting for draft position again. I've had plenty of practice in '19 and the end of last season. 

[Skinsinparadise]

I was thinking about this.  The "average" argument makes me more fired about a veteran.  Because is average really the problem?  Not at all if you think about it.  Average would be Shangri la

 

I'd take "average" Qb play in a heartbeat.  the problem with this veteran search along with the rookie search isn't that we keep landing on average.  It's that we keep landing on suck or at best below average.  i do believe this roster can win with average but alas we don't have that. 

 

Brunell -- below average.  Great leader.  But they couldn't move the ball much with him.  Sort of a veteran version of Heinicke.

McNabb -- sucked

Beck-Grossman -- sucked

Alex Smith -- below average play, above average leadership.  Heck their defense wasn't even that hot and they still went 6-4 with him and poised to make the playoffs.  Maybe the only version of average as to our veteran acquistions.  I know some here argue above, some argue below.  But I think average is apt. 

Keenum -- sucked

Fitzpatrick -- didn't play at all.  So that's an F

Wentz -- sucked

 

There is some nuance for me though about the point.   I believe in swinging for the fences in the draft.  Signing a veteran or trading for one if you arent using a first rounder doesn't preclude chasing QBs in the draft.  Keep drafting young guys.  So i am not veterans > draft.  I actually think draft > veterans.  But I am not in favor of just one route to do this. 

 

My take on QBs in short is keep throwing arrows at the dart board.  Keep trying.  

 

I try to be consistent with believing in a process regardless of who is making the calls.  Whether its Rivera, Scot, Bruce, Cerrato, etc.  So while I don't love Ron's misses at QB.  I do love how he keeps swinging.  That's actually unique for this franchise.  I actually love that he already moved on from Wentz and was open about that, already.  I love that he's openly saying and does it again and again that they aren't going to reach the promised land without the QB versus the Bruce Allen style of "we are close."

 

It has nothing to do with Ron.  I get people are pissed at him.  And after a bitter loss, feel that everything about his process sucks.  And look if its about taking a shot at Ron, I'll go back to my original shot at QB from the off season which was I was OK with the gamble on Wentz but I think he got fleeced in the deal. And i am indeed pissed about how the season ended.  But, I want ANY GM we have not to be afraid of making a mistake.  And if they make one, fish again.  Part of what I hated about Bruce-Dan, is they double down on their mistakes.   

 

Maybe Ron isn't the guy to figure out QB1, and if he's replaced that's cool. I don't care.  Venting isn't what moves me.  I want to win.  I want the next guy to keep swinging without worry about the fan scorn they take.    Do I think Ron and his team will find the next QB1?  i know some say heck no.  For me, I honestly got no idea.  But I do like the keep swinging approach.  It's unique for this organization.  Ron IMO isn't long for this organization.  I think one more year.  But if they don't find a QB this off season, I do want the next FO to keep throwing arrows at the dart board.    

Edited January 4, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[zCommander]

3 hours ago, Simmsy said:

 

Thats fine, stay home. Some of us still care, some of us don't get to collect $28 million to suck. As bad as Wentz has been, I've never hated him...until his post game presser. His "Gee golly! Aww shucks, I had a bad day" really pissed me off. He won two games for this team, his injury was a blessing and he comes back just in time to sink everything. "Oops! Did I do that!?".

 

I think it goes more like this:

 

Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah
Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah

 

I think I did it again
I made you believe we're more than just friends
Oh baby
It might seem like a crush
But it doesn't mean that I'm serious
'Cause to lose all my senses
That is just so typically me
Oh baby, baby

Oops, I did it again

I played with your heart, got lost in the game
Oh baby, baby

Oops, you think I'm in love
That I'm sent from above
I'm not that innocent

You see my problem is this
I'm dreaming away
Wishing that heroes, they truly exist
I cry, watching the days
Can't you see I'm a fool in so many ways
But to lose all my senses
That is just so typically me
Oh baby, oh

 

Oops, I did it again
I played with your heart, got lost in the game
Oh baby, baby

[RVAskins]

35 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Brunell -- below average.  Great leader.  But they couldn't move the ball much with him.  Sort of a veteran version of Heinicke.

McNabb -- sucked

Beck-Grossman -- sucked

Alex Smith -- below average play, above average leadership.  Heck their defense wasn't even that hot and they still went 6-4 with him and poised to make the playoffs.  Maybe the only version of average as to our veteran acquistions.  I know some here argue above, some argue below.  But I think average is apt. 

Keenum -- sucked

Fitzpatrick -- didn't play at all.  So that's an F

Wentz -- sucked

 

Don't forget about other horrible QB's this team has had since Snyder bought the team.

Brad Johnson - He was actually the best of the group IMO and should never have replaced.

Jeff George

Tony Banks

Shane Matthews

Patrick Ramsey

Danny Wuerffel

Tim Hasselbeck

Jason Campbell

Todd Collins

Colt McCoy

Josh Johnson

Mark Sanchez

Garrett Gilbert

Dwayne Haskins - RIP

Kyle Allen

 

Not a formula for producing a winner.

 

[Chump Bailey]

Don't forget...

 

[kingdaddy]

1 hour ago, PolarExpress said:

If that is true about Wentz, why in the hell would Ron have played him anyway?  Now that was a dumb decision.  If he truly didn’t know we could be eliminated that day, why not just go with Heineke or Howell?  We desperately need some upgrades on the O-line next season and special teams has been completely lackluster.  Wentz needs to go.

Makes me wonder if Ron knows that if CW gets hurt we're on the hook for his salary for 2023? If he didn't know we could be eliminated with a loss by playing CW this week then you have to wonder how clueless he is with other important things? 

[skinsfan66]

1 hour ago, FootballZombie said:

Bonkers that there is even a question. It does not matter how ready he is, you send Howell out there.

 

Gotta see that man in live action not just to see what he has, but to develop tape he can spend all offseason learning from. It will greatly accelerate his growth, and give him the knowledge that he has stepped on the field an belongs. That can bring a whole new world of self-confidence and motivation.

 

Not playing Howell at this point is conduct detrimental to the team.

 

Watching TH get destroyed by Dallas 2.0 does nobody nothing. It does not even add vindication to the idea that he is horrendous.

I would go with Howell too. But watching QB3 get destroyed does nothing either, other than prove why he was not in there in the first place. I guess maybe they could run the ball the whole game to save him from taking a beaten like all the other QB's before him. Starting Howell could move our picks up the draft board too.  Maybe we have a chance at a top pick QB.  It's not like we have anything to play for either. Maybe sit the starting OL. They can learn something for next year just like Wentz did for the Browns game. Maybe they will be quicker and heal their feet too. Maybe the coaches don't call the play at the goal line leaving the QB with his back to the unblocked OLB in both the Giants games.  Maybe they block him this time, it could happen, maybe.  Hope he does well.

[DiscoBob]

1 hour ago, zCommander said:

 

I think it goes more like this:

 

Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah
Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah

 

I think I did it again
I made you believe we're more than just friends
Oh baby
It might seem like a crush
But it doesn't mean that I'm serious
'Cause to lose all my senses
That is just so typically me
Oh baby, baby

Oops, I did it again

I played with your heart, got lost in the game
Oh baby, baby

Oops, you think I'm in love
That I'm sent from above
I'm not that innocent

You see my problem is this
I'm dreaming away
Wishing that heroes, they truly exist
I cry, watching the days
Can't you see I'm a fool in so many ways
But to lose all my senses
That is just so typically me
Oh baby, oh

 

Oops, I did it again
I played with your heart, got lost in the game
Oh baby, baby

 

ChatGPT to the rescue...

 

Verse 1:

I'm Dan Snyder, owner of the team

I made a mess, it's all my dream

I bought the Commanders, thought I'd be the man

But now the fans, they don't understand

 

Chorus:

Oops, I did it again

Oops, I ruined the team

Oops, I didn't know what I was doin'

Now the Commanders, they're all through-in

 

Verse 2:

I thought I knew it all, I thought I was smart

But now I see, I played a big part

In tearing down the team, that once was great

Now it's too late, it's all my fate

 

Chorus:

Oops, I did it again

Oops, I ruined the team

Oops, I didn't know what I was doin'

Now the Commanders, they're all through-in

 

Bridge:

I should have listened, to the fans and players

But now it's too late, to fix my mistakes

I'll go down in history, as the one who broke

The Washington Commanders, with all my poor choices

 

Outro:

The stands are empty, the field is bare

No more touchdowns, no one to cheer

I've destroyed it all, with my selfish ways

The Commanders are gone, forever and a day

 

Chorus:

Oops, I did it again

Oops, I ruined the team

Oops, I didn't know what I was doin'

Now the Commanders, they're all through-in

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, RVAskins said:

 

Don't forget about other horrible QB's this team has had since Snyder bought the team.

Brad Johnson - He was actually the best of the group IMO and should never have replaced.

Jeff George

Tony Banks

Shane Matthews

Patrick Ramsey

Danny Wuerffel

Tim Hasselbeck

Jason Campbell

Todd Collins

Colt McCoy

Josh Johnson

Mark Sanchez

Garrett Gilbert

Dwayne Haskins - RIP

Kyle Allen

 

Not a formula for producing a winner.

 

 

Exactly.

 

My cognitive dissonance on this issue at times is based on the Alex Smith trade.  I saw that as a bad fit for the roster, I hated the idea of average QB play in the context of a an average to below average roster.  But the persistence of some here about shooting for average is bad got me thinking -- why do I both agree but also disagree with the point.  

 

I agree from the context of keep shooting for that superstar QB in the draft.  Go for tools. 

 

I disagree from the context of what an average QB would mean here.  Cooley articulates the point better than me, talking about Daniel Jones with THIS roster in his mind is potentially a SB team.  Personally I think Daniel Jones isn't enough.  But an average QB coupled with O line improvements and adding a Y TE, LB-CB depth just might.

 

But the problem with this team at QB, if a ESPN 30-30 special was done on its pathetic journey at the QB spot, it wouldn't be about chasing average.  It would be about having most really bad QB play.  We rank dead last in QBR post the Kirk trade.   Average would be a wild step up.  It's been bad, nothing close to average.

 

If Jimmy G for example played for us the way he played this year for SF, they'd put a statue for him outside of Fedex.     Don't get me wrong, I'd love for the next Mahomes but count me as not one of the people here who yawn at average or "just" good.

Edited January 4, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[RandyHolt]

AI Chatbot not so sure about who should start:

 

It is not within my capabilities to accurately determine who should start at quarterback for the Commanders, as I do not have access to information about the team's players, their skills and abilities, or their performance in practice or games. In order to determine who should start at quarterback, it would be necessary to consider a number of factors, including the players' physical skills, mental toughness, leadership abilities, and overall understanding of the game. Ultimately, the decision of who should start at quarterback for the Commanders would be made by the team's coaching staff, who would be in the best position to evaluate the players and make a decision based on what they believe would be best for the team.

 

 

 

 

[Warhead36]

What if...Howell actually plays well? Its not completely beyond the realm of possibility. I know he's more likely going to suck, but we've seen quite a few unheralded young QBs come in and at least early on play like they belong. 

 

Just imagine if he puts up like 300 and 3 TDs in his debut. Wouldn't THAT give us something to talk about this offseason....

[illone]

4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Listening to Jay right now on 106.7.   i have to say I am impressed with the level of detail he recalls from games, he's done it all season long.    Ne is as good or maybe better than Logan Paulsen at the anaylsis.  Right now he's citing play after play from Wentz.  He typically leans on the polite side of life when talking about coaches-players so when he does rip people, I notice.   No shocker but he thought Wentz was a mess.    He thinks Howell should start the next game.    He doesn't think Turner was the problem on Sunday, he thinks it was Wentz.

 

 

I have thoroughly enjoyed listening to Jay all year. 

 

Did you catch the part about how he learned of the Alex Smith trade?  😂

[mh86]

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

What if...Howell actually plays well? Its not completely beyond the realm of possibility. I know he's more likely going to suck, but we've seen quite a few unheralded young QBs come in and at least early on play like they belong. 

 

Just imagine if he puts up like 300 and 3 TDs in his debut. Wouldn't THAT give us something to talk about this offseason....

I can seen it now. Comes in plays lights out like THs playoff game and then sucks for the rest of his time here, but the pack will hype him up like he’s the second coming of the moxie Jesus. All kidding aside, it would be exciting. Hopefully he gets a chance to show what he has.

[mistertim]

6 hours ago, skinsfan66 said:

I would go with Howell too. But watching QB3 get destroyed does nothing either, other than prove why he was not in there in the first place. I guess maybe they could run the ball the whole game to save him from taking a beaten like all the other QB's before him. Starting Howell could move our picks up the draft board too.  Maybe we have a chance at a top pick QB.  It's not like we have anything to play for either. Maybe sit the starting OL. They can learn something for next year just like Wentz did for the Browns game. Maybe they will be quicker and heal their feet too. Maybe the coaches don't call the play at the goal line leaving the QB with his back to the unblocked OLB in both the Giants games.  Maybe they block him this time, it could happen, maybe.  Hope he does well.

 

As others have noted before...how much worse could Howell really be than Wentz or Heinicke?

 

I'm sure Howell could hand the ball off 40 times a game just as well as Heinicke, difference being that Howell has a gun and also actually uses his legs so there are two additional dimensions that he brings to that type of game plan.

 

Also, if he airs it out and throws picks...well that happens. Wentz just had a game with 3 of them and no TDs. So there again I don't really see Howell being worse than Wentz. IMO Howell is actually quite a bit more accurate than Wentz, but his rookie mistakes are what would likely lean to any potential turnovers.

Edited January 4, 2023 by mistertim

[PolarExpress]

9 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I was thinking about this.  The "average" argument makes me more fired about a veteran.  Because is average really the problem?  Not at all if you think about it.  Average would be Shangri la

 

I'd take "average" Qb play in a heartbeat.  the problem with this veteran search along with the rookie search isn't that we keep landing on average.  It's that we keep landing on suck or at best below average.  i do believe this roster can win with average but alas we don't have that. 

 

Brunell -- below average.  Great leader.  But they couldn't move the ball much with him.  Sort of a veteran version of Heinicke.

McNabb -- sucked

Beck-Grossman -- sucked

Alex Smith -- below average play, above average leadership.  Heck their defense wasn't even that hot and they still went 6-4 with him and poised to make the playoffs.  Maybe the only version of average as to our veteran acquistions.  I know some here argue above, some argue below.  But I think average is apt. 

Keenum -- sucked

Fitzpatrick -- didn't play at all.  So that's an F

Wentz -- sucked

 

There is some nuance for me though about the point.   I believe in swinging for the fences in the draft.  Signing a veteran or trading for one if you arent using a first rounder doesn't preclude chasing QBs in the draft.  Keep drafting young guys.  So i am not veterans > draft.  I actually think draft > veterans.  But I am not in favor of just one route to do this. 

 

My take on QBs in short is keep throwing arrows at the dart board.  Keep trying.  

 

I try to be consistent with believing in a process regardless of who is making the calls.  Whether its Rivera, Scot, Bruce, Cerrato, etc.  So while I don't love Ron's misses at QB.  I do love how he keeps swinging.  That's actually unique for this franchise.  I actually love that he already moved on from Wentz and was open about that, already.  I love that he's openly saying and does it again and again that they aren't going to reach the promised land without the QB versus the Bruce Allen style of "we are close."

 

It has nothing to do with Ron.  I get people are pissed at him.  And after a bitter loss, feel that everything about his process sucks.  And look if its about taking a shot at Ron, I'll go back to my original shot at QB from the off season which was I was OK with the gamble on Wentz but I think he got fleeced in the deal. And i am indeed pissed about how the season ended.  But, I want ANY GM we have not to be afraid of making a mistake.  And if they make one, fish again.  Part of what I hated about Bruce-Dan, is they double down on their mistakes.   

 

Maybe Ron isn't the guy to figure out QB1, and if he's replaced that's cool. I don't care.  Venting isn't what moves me.  I want to win.  I want the next guy to keep swinging without worry about the fan scorn they take.    Do I think Ron and his team will find the next QB1?  i know some say heck no.  For me, I honestly got no idea.  But I do like the keep swinging approach.  It's unique for this organization.  Ron IMO isn't long for this organization.  I think one more year.  But if they don't find a QB this off season, I do want the next FO to keep throwing arrows at the dart board.    

Don’t forget Danny Weurffel, who probably got an F- in kickball.  Spurrier’s “Well I thought he’d at least get a running start before kicking the ball” still makes me laugh today.  I don’t think even Spurrier would forget when his team could be eliminated.  

[redskinss]

3 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

As others have noted before...how much worse could Howell really be than Wentz or Heinicke?

 

I'm sure Howell could hand the ball off 40 times a game just as well as Heinicke, difference being that Howell has a gun and also actually uses his legs so there are two additional dimensions that he brings to that type of game plan.

 

Also, if he airs it out and throws picks...well that happens. Wentz just had a game with 3 of them and no TDs. So there again I don't really see Howell being worse than Wentz. IMO Howell is actually quite a bit more accurate than Wentz, but his rookie mistakes are what would likely lean to any potential turnovers.

All this and one more thing.

If he does suck something awful, who cares!!!!!!

 

We are eliminated from the playoffs, we have nothing to play for and  because there are a crazy amount of teams hovering around .500 this year the difference in a win or loss could mean around 6 or 7 draft slots.

The best case scenario for us would be if he plays great and we lose but it really doesn't matter if he sucks either.