The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, mistertim said:

 

With regards to Wilson, I'm fine with moving him from "impossible" to "possible, but extremely unlikely", but like I said I don't want us to get into a place where over time we're increasingly convincing ourselves (without any tangible evidence) that Wilson could come here and then we end up downtrodden when it doesn't happen. That's why I tend to focus more on realistic scenarios.

 

 

I get your point but where i agree and I depart at the same time is that because of the bevy of teams in the derby EVERY QB we talk about is a long shot.  Heck even in the QBs in the draft whether its Pickett, Corral or name that guy. If you forced me to pick one QB in the draft, I'd put the odds on we don't get that guy.   So you name the QB, the odds are low that this dude ends up here.  Tough to call who goes to the prom with us.  But I think its a better bet that someone goes to the prom with us and it could be an attractive date.  And i've heard enough to believe its possible that Wilson could be in the list of potential prom dates.  

 

Some seem to be concerned because so many teams are in the QB derby we get left with the bag and end up with nothing at least as far as the veteran market.  I think its possible we end up empty handed...

 

But part of the reason why I think we got a shot to land someone is I think they are going to be VERY aggressive.   The highest bidder often wins.  And i think odds are decent that highest bidder could be us.   I think the level of desperation here is really high.

 

1 hour ago, mistertim said:

 

As far as Garafolo, I agree that he's usually a pretty solid source. But as you noted, this isn't something where he's getting actual information from people and passing it on. He's basically just talking about his instincts on the matter. Which shouldn't be discounted, but IMO also shouldn't be given the same weight as actual information ("I talked to a source close to Wilson and his agent, and WFT has been added as a possibility", or something like that).

 

 

What I found most interesting is his point was I took his implication to be there are some who divorce themselves from Dan and the clown show and focus instead on the actual team and Ron and Scott and like what they see when they do that.  Hard for me to believe he just feels this way on an island and never heard it from someone else.   He talks to enough people, especially agents who are typically the source for national media stories.  And if he were hearing, no one wants to go there, he'd say it.  Now Standig's stories quoting agents gave a mixed bag, some saying Rivera being there is a big plus and makes it more attractive and others saying it's not enough to override Dan.

 

Bringing that back to Garafolo, he somewhat implied the same thing.  His thought would some players would have an issue with Dan/clown show.  And he believes some would ignore it and focus on Ron and the roster.  For whatever reason he suspects Wilson is in the later group.  But yeah it could be a complete shot in the dark from him.  But its now one in a series of stories that make me believe that Wilson might not be the stickler than Rodgers seems to be.

 

1 hour ago, mistertim said:

 

As others have noted, I think the biggest sticking point to players coming here now is Dan and the team reputation in general. 

 

True.  But many agents have all confessed that the #1 thing is still the money regardless of where they end up.   My point is if for example the WFT blows away whatever team with the best deal, that alone, might give them a fighting chance. 

 

For example with Alex Smith.  They were competing with the Browns.  The WFT offered the better compensation AND gave Alex Smith a fat extension.  As some said back then who knew Alex at the time, that the fat extension did make coming here more attractive. 

 

And again I am not doing a 180 on these veterans coming here.  I think Rodgers, no way.  Watson, no way.  My only change is I think there is a small chance with Wilson and I didn't feel that way weeks back.  But the odds are low we are going to predict their prom date in advance.  I suspect they are going to shoot arrows in multiple directions and hope that it sticks with someone.    

 

So while I agree don't get your hopes up.  I'd extend though that point to EVERY interesting QB.  I think its just the nature of the supply-demand chain in this coming Qb market.  I mean yeah if they want to sign Trubisky I bet they can sign him without a fight.  But as for any bigger QBs, I think it will be a scramble. 

Edited January 8, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Zim489]

I think they can be as aggressive as they want to. This team is unfortunately the 4 in high school that smells bad asking every single girl out in the class to prom. None of the 9s are going to want to go with him. I could envision a scenario where Ron over asks for Matt Ryan and we give up a insane number of assets and ATL takes their tank year happy to be drafting top 3 next year getting their cap space right.

 

Ron goes on to sell what he always sells with "Well you know back in Carolina Matt was a franchise guy" While the fan base rolls their eyes at Alex Smith 2.0. A decent descending QB in their twilight

 

If Ron and Co didnt love last years draft class (reportedly and said by Ron) I dont know how they are going to love anyone from this one. Now that hes under pressure to win I dont know how hes going to throw a young guy into the fire when he knows hes going to have to win something of have something better than an 9 win season for the 2023-24 season when It will be firing or Extension time. Hes not going into year 5 as a lame duck. Its going to be a risky move for him to take a QB this class. I know personally I dont see a single one of these guys being an elite QB. 

 

Ultimately I think were going to go the Jimmy G or Matt Ryan route and we make strides to be a decent team until 2027 when this team is still roughly 500 and accomplishing nothing of note. Maybe another playoff appearance. 

 

Ron painted himself into a corner with making the playoffs last year. It threw off the timing of the entire rebuild. At the 1-5 mark they should have just sold everything off not bolted down and just roll with Dwayne the rest of the year. I think this franchise would be in a much better shape if we were coming off a 5 win season with Wilson Fields or Lance at the helm looking at a top 5 pick this year 

[HigSkin]

 

[Butchie_T]

I think WFT should look into a trade with Denver for Drew Lock. Can’t be worse than the current situation and Drew is young so there is still some time. He at least had a couple seasons in the books. Better than an untested rookie at this point. 

Edited January 8, 2022 by Butchie_T

[Zim489]

16 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

 

I just cant watch the Noodle arm any more. The pruning of the playbook hampers us evaluating Turners offense so much. 

1 minute ago, Butchie_T said:

I think WFT should look into a trade with Denver for Drew Lock. Can’t be worse than the current situation and Drew is young so there is still some time. He at least had a couple seasons in the books. Better than an untested rookie at this point. 

Lock was pretty horrendous in Denver on the multiple chances hes been given. Hard pass 

[Butchie_T]

 

26 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

I just cant watch the Noodle arm any more. The pruning of the playbook hampers us evaluating Turners offense so much. 

Lock was pretty horrendous in Denver on the multiple chances hes been given. Hard pass 

Why not, because everything up to now that has been tried has worked perfectly, amirite?  :sarcasm:

Edited January 8, 2022 by Butchie_T

[evmiii]

As far as the retreads go, the only two options I would even consider are Wilson or Carr (both unlikely).  Russel Wilson is most likely not returning to Seattle but has shown zero interest in coming to Washington.  He is from Richmond VA so maybe there could be interest.  The other is Carr but I don’t think Vegas is going to move on from him with a new head coach coming in.  I would not pick off any one else’s rejects.  I would also add you never know what’s going to happen with D Watson.  Ron seems like the kind of coach that believes in second chances.  If the legal issues get magically resolved you never know.

 

I understand this isn’t a super talented or deep draft class, but it only takes one guy.  Seems we may have a shot at the first QB taken so if they see “it” in either of the top guys they have to jump.  I like M Corral best (to be honest I’m in MS and watched all the Ole Miss).  He is accurate enough, arm is strong enough, smart enough, and athletic enough.  He seems to really inspire the guys around him and coaches love him.  He does have a bit of an injury issue, but nothing repetitive or career threatening (sugar bowl was scary).  
 

I also like K. Pickett (unfortunate name for a QB).  Not as athletic as Corral, but good decision maker and accurate passer.  Had a great year this year.

 

Excluding previous noted exceptions, I think it’s time to start completely over.  This team is not on the verge of being good, not one or two players from getting great.  Draft a QB and build around him.

 

[Rufus T Firefly]

20 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

 Lock was pretty horrendous in Denver on the multiple chances hes been given. Hard pass 

I liked him coming out of that draft. Didn't love him, but liked him more than Jones and Haskins. 

 

Be interesting to see if he can be salvaged if he gets in a new situation. He's not a guy you acquire and say "problem solved" but if you don't have an answer, he could be one of the guys you throw at the problem and hope one pans out. I would a chance on him rather than Kyle Allen at least. Allen is safer, but really there's no chance he could be your long-term guy while there is at least a very small chance Lock could be.

 

Would;dn't give up more than a 5th for him. And maybe it should be less.

[Skinsinparadise]

Good takes here from some national observers IMO.  Echoes what Garafolo thinks of the roster.  Gets into their QB situation some.  Those here that think we are miles away from being good won't like the listen but those who are more optimistic might like the listen, its not long. 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 8, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[clskinsfan]

1 hour ago, HigSkin said:

 

Trying to claim Trubisky isnt an upgrade over Heinike is laughable. The Trubisky playing in Buffalo's offense in the preseason was ripping 20 yard outs at will. He is actually a perfect backup to Allen in that offense. Heinike cant even dream of making the throws Trubisky makes. 

[mistertim]

51 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

Trying to claim Trubisky isnt an upgrade over Heinike is laughable. The Trubisky playing in Buffalo's offense in the preseason was ripping 20 yard outs at will. He is actually a perfect backup to Allen in that offense. Heinike cant even dream of making the throws Trubisky makes. 

 

Yeah I really don't think Heinicke is in the team's plans as a future starter. If it's not Trubisky it will be someone else most likely, whether in FA or via trade. Though I also hope they don't reach like crazy in the market out of desperation.

 

For me, as long as we draft a QB, I'm good (unless the unlikely happens and we get Wilson via trade). If we also get a decent FA guy who could be a bridge for the rookie, that's fine too...again, as long as we don't overpay. If we completely strike out in FA and the QB we draft isn't ready to start, then I'd be fine with TH.

 

What I definitely don't want is the team picking up a guy like Trubisky and thinking he's their future. Trubisky is a completely mediocre QB, though he also is an upgrade to Heinicke even if only because he has a pretty good arm.

[DWinzit]

54 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Good takes here from some national observers IMO.  Echoes what Garafolo thinks of the roster.  Gets into their QB situation some.  Those here that think we are miles away from being good won't like the listen but those who are more optimistic might like the listen, its not long. 

You are correct, very positive and there's a lot of negative vibes on the board. I get it, mostly the Danny factor.

We do have a lot of positives on this roster moving into the offseason. That's especially the case with the players returning from the IR and that cap space. Why can't that and the respect Ron still has through NFL bring some of the better players and perhaps a bigger name QB to Washington.  (must admit the stadium and general facilities status does hurt)

[88Comrade2000]

If someone wants to make Heini a starter ; trade him for picks. Thing us, If we don’t see him as a starter; what team does? He’s very limited.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

12 minutes ago, Rdskns2000 said:

If someone wants to make Heini a starter ; trade him for picks. Thing us, If we don’t see him as a starter; what team does? He’s very limited.

I’ve seen some here allude to trading Heineke and I’d be surprised if there was any interest in any capacity.  Seems his only value would be with Scott Turner.

[Alexa]

Not sure what in the world they see in Tribisky. I don't get it. He had plenty of time to develop in Chicago and never did. He is nothing but a bigger version of TH w/ a stronger arm. 

[Malapropismic Depository]

Is it legal to complete a pass, off of the foot ?

If so, then make Tress Way our QB.

If not, then make it legal.

 

[sabbath1981]

Let's roll with Heineke for 2022. He was on fire until COVID decimated the team. 

[mistertim]

4 hours ago, sabbath1981 said:

Let's roll with Heineke for 2022. He was on fire until COVID decimated the team. 

 

If you listen to Ron's recent interview among other things said prior, it's clear that the coaching staff don't see Heinicke as the guy. It's not exactly a secret that they're looking to go hard for a QB in some way this offseason. Unless we somehow completely strike out in trades, FA, and the draft, then I don't see Heinicke being the starter next season. He's a backup.

[Zim489]

8 hours ago, sabbath1981 said:

Let's roll with Heineke for 2022. He was on fire until COVID decimated the team. 

He was not on fire. He was grading out as one of the worst QBs in the league. 

[CjSuAvE22]

Draft kenny pickett and lets start there, Trubisky Mariotta Heinicke arent good starting points for this franchise right now imo.

Edited January 9, 2022 by CjSuAvE22

[HigSkin]

 

 

[Koolblue13]

These stories start to change shortly. 

[Burgold]

16 hours ago, evmiii said:

As far as the retreads go, the only two options I would even consider are Wilson or Carr (both unlikely).  Russel Wilson is most likely not returning to Seattle but has shown zero interest in coming to Washington.  He is from Richmond VA so maybe there could be interest.  The other is Carr but I don’t think Vegas is going to move on from him with a new head coach coming in.  I would not pick off any one else’s rejects.  I would also add you never know what’s going to happen with D Watson.  Ron seems like the kind of coach that believes in second chances.  If the legal issues get magically resolved you never know.

 

I understand this isn’t a super talented or deep draft class, but it only takes one guy.  Seems we may have a shot at the first QB taken so if they see “it” in either of the top guys they have to jump.  I like M Corral best (to be honest I’m in MS and watched all the Ole Miss).  He is accurate enough, arm is strong enough, smart enough, and athletic enough.  He seems to really inspire the guys around him and coaches love him.  He does have a bit of an injury issue, but nothing repetitive or career threatening (sugar bowl was scary).  
 

I also like K. Pickett (unfortunate name for a QB).  Not as athletic as Corral, but good decision maker and accurate passer.  Had a great year this year.

 

Excluding previous noted exceptions, I think it’s time to start completely over.  This team is not on the verge of being good, not one or two players from getting great.  Draft a QB and build around him.

 

You can’t go from a kicker name blewitt to a QB named Pickett. That’s just spitting in the eye of fate. 

[method man]

18 hours ago, Rdskns2000 said:

I did this once last year in my QB threat over at ATN.

 

Commanders??? -  We have one backup under contract for 22: Heinicke and could always bring back the other backup: Allen.  Ron & his GM crew will be looking to upgrade the position in 22. They have to, or else their tenures will likely end sooner than later.  They have to be aggressive when it comes to QB this year. Thing is, probably half the league could be in competition with us for that QB.

 

A Look at who our competition for QBs will be in 2022 

Giants -  They have publicly said they plan to bring back Jones but they could be in the market for a new QB.  They do have draft capital to make it happen.  They could draft a QB or dangle picks to trade for a veteran. Reports say Russ Let Me Cook wants to be a Giant.  They could also trade Jones, along with picks.

 

Eagles - Do they stay with Hurts or try to upgrade with Rodgers, Wilson or Watson?  Or do they draft someone?  Even though their picks will be in the lower half of the first round, they have 3 first rounds picks to dangle.  That could be enticing someone plus they could also trade Hurts in addition to picks. 

 

Vikings - A big cap hit if they trade Kirk. They would have to pay some of his salary and probably offer picks for someone to take them off their hands in 22.  If they decide to bite the bullet and find a willing partner; they will be in market for a new QB either in the draft or through trade or free agency.

 

Lions -  They have Golf but he sucks.  Detroit most likely would draft a replacement but do they do it this year or not?

 

*Packers -  This is only conditional if they move on from Rodgers.  Rodgers now seems likely to come back but he will want Mahomes money and a 4-5 year new deal.  Will the Packers do that?  If they don't and they move on from Rodgers; they got Jordan Love. He's not answer so, they would use the Rodgers trade to get a new QB via trade or draft.

 

Saints - Despite their cap hell, they will be in the market for a new QB.  The cap can be massaged to make room for a QB. They seem more likely to be in the veteran market than drafting a qb.

 

Falcons -  If they move on from Ryan, they will be in the market for QB.  They will take a big hit from moving on from Ryan, so if they need a new QB; it will have to be in the draft.

 

Panthers-  They definitely will be the market for a new QB.  Whether that's one of the veterans or thru the draft; that will be the owner: Tepper's #1 priority. As they showed this year, they will throw away money at the QB position until they get it right.

 

Buccaneers -  Does Tom retire?  If he does, the Bucs will need a replacement.

 

*Seahawks - This is another conditional QB; only if Wilson moves on.  If they trade Wilson, they will need a new QB.  My guess, they will favor draft picks to get that new QB over a veteran. Especially, if they also move on from Peter Carroll.

 

Raiders -  They have Carr for one more year.  They could have a new coach, if the interim guy doesn't get it and maybe a new coach.  Will they new team want to keep Carr?  I think unless they make a trade for Watson, Wilson or Rodgers; they reup with Carr.

 

Broncos -  They definitely need a new QB.  They will be a key destination if those big names actually move.  

 

Texans - Do they ride with Mills or do they draft a new qb?  They will have a bounty load of picks; when they are finally able to trade Watson.  

 

Browns -  Do they move on from Mayfield?  If they do, they will be in the market for a new QB.  Definitely, a spot for veteran qbs but they may also look to the draft.

 

Steelers -  The Big Ben era is over.  Time to get a replacement.  A prime spot for veteran qbs. Probably more so than drafting one but they could just draft Ben's replacement instead.

 

Dolphins - They probably move on from Tua.  Seems like the #1 destination for Watson.

 

While not likely, half the league could have new QBs this fall. The Commanders?? will be the near bottom destination for any QB.  We are going to have to be very aggressive to get that QB. We will have to overpay, if we lure a veteran here.  My guess, our best bet is to draft a QB.  If that drafted QB does work out, draft again.   

 

In many of the cases you mention, there is a guy in place that would just fill a new seat elsewhere (ex Winston, Tua and Hurts). A bunch of these teams also realize options will be better in 2023 and will likely be patient (ex Texans and Lions).

 

I think the desperate teams are us, the Panthers, the Saints, the Steelers and the Broncos. The only team with a higher pick will be the Panthers and I see them going for a veteran because of the pressure Rhule has on him. It was idiotic of them not to draft Fields or Jones last year when they had the chance

 

[Burgold]

I think one of the questions we need to answer is would we trade a 9-8 or 10-7 season with a reclamation QB whether it be Ryan, Marriotta, or even Carr and Wilson for a 5-12 season with a rookie QB who flashes enough that we think he could become a franchise player down the road?

 

It's not too hard to imagine this team winning 9 or 10 games. You could almost imagine it with the team as constituted if somehow we aren't ravaged by injuries and we get Thomas, McKissic, Samuel, Young, etc. back and some of our extreme underperformers Young, Sweat find their way. If Collins has found his place in the NFL as a Buffalo Nickel and Jackson with a year under this system stops making all the mental mistakes, then this team can be a winner. I don't think it can be a Super Bowl winner, but I think it's a playoff contender and might even win a single game, but that would be its highest ceiling. 

 

On the other hand, if we get a rookie QB, I have to imagine our ceiling for 2022 is going to be around 8 games and it's more likely we win 3-6. Are we okay with that?