The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Koolblue13]

We have a solid offense built that a rookie should be able to step in and be competitive. 

 

Good line, #1WR and TE. 2 TEs really, because Bates is already my favorite offensive player, solid run game. Good coaching.

 

We went on a 4 game win streak with a garbage QB. Imagine if we had an average QB who wasn't actively trying to lose us games.

[Zim489]

I think were multiple years away even if we get a QB. I think they are currently built for the wrong era. Ron has heavily emphasized the run game and run d. Sorry thats not 2022. They also have some horrid roster asset allocation. The Dline is way over valued with too much talent in one area. The LB corp needs a complete rebuild for some sort of coverage ability. The CBs arent great. Nothing at FS. The offense is a disaster. You have some decent depth across the board but nothing great besides Terry. 

 

They look 3-4 years away from competing for SBs. 

[Warhead36]

Stafford would have been a HUGE upgrade for us. Yes our roster isn't as good as the Rams, so perhaps we don't go 12-5, but I think we could have definitely reached 10 wins with Stafford. We probably win the Chargers, Broncos, and second Eagles game. We're probably better in the red zone against the Packers so maybe we can steal that one too. And maybe the first Cowboys game doesn't get completely out of hand with Stafford out there.

[Zim489]

1 minute ago, Koolblue13 said:

We went on a 4 game win streak with a garbage QB. Imagine if we had an average QB who wasn't actively trying to lose us games.

I chalked that up to a lucky run of 5050 coin flip that are prevalent across the league every week. We lost a few of them early and late in the season. I dont see that as an indicator of anything.

[Koolblue13]

2 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

I chalked that up to a lucky run of 5050 coin flip that are prevalent across the league every week. We lost a few of them early and late in the season. I dont see that as an indicator of anything.

I chalk it up to the coaches being able to scheme Heinicke out of the game plan and then being very careful and using him sparingly. His arm got weaker week by week before the bye and then after it 

[Warhead36]

13 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

I chalked that up to a lucky run of 5050 coin flip that are prevalent across the league every week. We lost a few of them early and late in the season. I dont see that as an indicator of anything.

The Bucs was a fluky win. Brady's picks were like deflections or just awful non Brady esque throws. Also IIRC they were without Gronk and AB that game. 9 times out of 10 we lose that game.

 

We outplayed the Panthers and Seahawks but both those teams suck.

 

The Raiders was a coin flip game.

 

The four game win streak wasn't really great play by us. We were mostly okay but beat some bad teams and got lucky a couple other times.

[mistertim]

39 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

Jimmy G. Has shown a lot of moxy in this OT game.  Meanwhile Stafford turns the ball over a lot for who he is....

 

And precisely zero teams would even consider Jimmy G over Stafford. Even the idea is laughable. This is why single games or even small stretches don't mean much when it comes to the bigger picture, especially with established QBs. Taylor Heinicke had a better QBR than Patrick Mahomes over a small stretch earlier this season. Does anyone who isn't literally psychotic think that TH is even on the same planet as PM as far as being an NFL QB?

[MrJL]

and how much of it was his supporting cast getting worse due to injuries and COVID?

[ultravin]

i don't know but do ya'll actually think if Turner can really make up some good plays IF we drafted Willis? i have not seen any RPO type plays from Turner's and Willis is that type of QB.  i just don't think we can draft a dual threat type of qb with Turner's old school vanilla style offense. if turner would added some RPO type, read option plays with heineke, he would of at least be decent.  i have yet to see that type of offense from the OC!

 

[mhd24]

2 minutes ago, ultravin said:

i don't know but do ya'll actually think if Turner can really make up some good plays IF we drafted Willis? i have not seen any RPO type plays from Turner's and Willis is that type of QB.  i just don't think we can draft a dual threat type of qb with Turner's old school vanilla style offense. if turner would added some RPO type, read option plays with heineke, he would of at least be decent.  i have yet to see that type of offense from the OC!

 

I can't blame Scott at all.  He's had nothing to work with at QB since he's been here.  Give him a legit starting QB, and then evaluate him.  Logan Paulson has said Turner schemes guys open.  Alex (on one leg) was the best QB Scott has had.  Before that, it was Haskins (ugh), Kyle Allen (meh), Fitz (can't evaluate), and Heineke (with no NFL arm).  Scott has done the best he could with no QB talent.

[Warhead36]

You can't run RPOs with a QB like Heinicke that often because of his size. Turner had to call plays to protect him. He's small and has a history of injuries. If he gets hurt we'd be even more effed than we already were.

 

I'll wait to evaluate Turner once we get a legitimate QB option in here. Nobody can turn water into wine.

[kingdaddy]

38 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

The Bucs was a fluky win. Brady's picks were like deflections or just awful non Brady esque throws. Also IIRC they were without Gronk and AB that game. 9 times out of 10 we lose that game.

 

We outplayed the Panthers and Seahawks but both those teams suck.

 

The Raiders was a coin flip game.

 

The four game win streak wasn't really great play by us. We were mostly okay but beat some bad teams and got lucky a couple other times.

Call these wins what you want but the common denominator in each of these wins is the performance of the defense. Our formula for winning games HAS to be with defense because that's where all of our investments are. If I'm RR I'm looking at what defensive coordinators are available because we need to optimize our performance on that side of the ball. When we play defense we can hold our own with any team in the league...when we don't our QB weakness and offensive deficiencies show up and get magnified.  

[MrJL]

people keep trying to talk up the potential rookies but isn't this likely the worst QB draft class since 2013?  Isn't it possible most if all of these guys drop out of the first round and even then they'll be wastes of picks?

[seantaylor=god]

59 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

I think were multiple years away even if we get a QB. I think they are currently built for the wrong era. Ron has heavily emphasized the run game and run d. Sorry thats not 2022. They also have some horrid roster asset allocation. The Dline is way over valued with too much talent in one area. The LB corp needs a complete rebuild for some sort of coverage ability. The CBs arent great. Nothing at FS. The offense is a disaster. You have some decent depth across the board but nothing great besides Terry. 

 

They look 3-4 years away from competing for SBs. 

No one wants to hear this but it’s largely true. The oline is pretty solid and you neglected to mention Gibson who is above average now and borderline elite. Defense needs a ton of help, which is disturbing because we have tons of assets invested there. We need more offensive weapons also. We need a stellar draft and FA to get to 9-10 wins or Rivera and the “GM(s)”will get fired IMO. Our owner is not patient and 3 years is plenty of time to show real progress.

[Warhead36]

Meh, you get a good QB you instantly become good. The Bengals went from absolute dog doo doo to division champions in Burrow's second season. Chargers second season with Herbert they're a win away from the playoffs. The impact of the QB is weighted so significantly that every other position is ALMOST irrelevant in comparison as long as they're not just absolutely awful.

[Jds0912]

12 minutes ago, ultravin said:

i don't know but do ya'll actually think if Turner can really make up some good plays IF we drafted Willis? i have not seen any RPO type plays from Turner's and Willis is that type of QB.  i just don't think we can draft a dual threat type of qb with Turner's old school vanilla style offense. if turner would added some RPO type, read option plays with heineke, he would of at least be decent.  i have yet to see that type of offense from the OC!

 

I think we change our whole offense if we draft Willis and pretty much copy the Ravens playbook. It’s an easy transition bc there aren’t as many plays and the blocking and passing routes are very basic. It’s meant to take thinking out of it and rely on the qb’s athleticism. The Ravens have proven you can win like that. He’s currently my #3 qb behind Pickett and Corral but the more I watch him the more I want him on our team. 

7 minutes ago, MrJL said:

people keep trying to talk up the potential rookies but isn't this likely the worst QB draft class since 2013?  Isn't it possible most if all of these guys drop out of the first round and even then they'll be wastes of picks?

The “experts” are saying that but I don’t agree. I think this qb class is better overall than last year’s 

[Warhead36]

My issue with Willis is just how dependent he is on running. QBs like that don't sustain success. Even Lamar Jackson is already starting to drop off after the MVP campaign a couple seasons back. Cam Newton's prime years was pretty short too. List goes on and on. 

 

If we draft Willis we have to go all in to try to win in that 4 year rookie contract window and then likely have to start over again.

[mistertim]

27 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

Call these wins what you want but the common denominator in each of these wins is the performance of the defense. Our formula for winning games HAS to be with defense because that's where all of our investments are. If I'm RR I'm looking at what defensive coordinators are available because we need to optimize our performance on that side of the ball. When we play defense we can hold our own with any team in the league...when we don't our QB weakness and offensive deficiencies show up and get magnified.  

 

No, our formula for winning games HAD to be with the defense, because we had a stagnant offense helmed by a backup QB without an NFL arm.

 

Ron himself has said that it's a QB driven league and you have to have a top QB to be continually relevant. If we can get a QB we hopefully won't have to rely as much on our defense balling out and winning squeaker coin toss games.

 

I get that you're more or less addicted to old school NFL football. But the rest of the NFL, including Ron and our FO, have moved on. 

[Jds0912]

2 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

My issue with Willis is just how dependent he is on running. QBs like that don't sustain success. Even Lamar Jackson is already starting to drop off after the MVP campaign a couple seasons back. Cam Newton's prime years was pretty short too. List goes on and on. 

 

If we draft Willis we have to go all in to try to win in that 4 year rookie contract window and then likely have to start over again.

You’re probably right, he might only be effective for 5 years or so. But that gives us several years of good offense and we could still keep looking for pocket passers in future drafts or free agency. Hopefully by then Ron has built a solid team through drafting so our new qb can hit the ground running. 

[mistertim]

6 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

My issue with Willis is just how dependent he is on running. QBs like that don't sustain success. Even Lamar Jackson is already starting to drop off after the MVP campaign a couple seasons back. Cam Newton's prime years was pretty short too. List goes on and on. 

 

If we draft Willis we have to go all in to try to win in that 4 year rookie contract window and then likely have to start over again.

 

I have a bit of a hard time seeing them drafting Willis, to be honest.

 

If you read what Turner said recently (I know it was posted in one of these threads) about evaluating QBs and what he looks for, you'll see that he says a QB's ability to beat teams with their arms is the main thing. He basically said that athleticism and the ability to move and extend plays is also very important and a huge plus in the modern game, but I get the feeling that he sees it as secondary to passing ability.

 

I don't get the feeling he'd be very interested in a running QB, which is what Willis is. Unless he evaluated him and truly thought that he could successfully morph him from a running QB into a pass first QB who used his legs occasionally.

 

But IMO that would take plenty of time and energy, so maybe if they landed a guy like Trubisky and Mariota which would allow them enough time to transform Willis? But the fan base would get antsy waiting for a 1st round rookie QB for any more than 1 season...and with this fan base even 1 season is seriously stretching it.

[Warhead36]

3 minutes ago, Jds0912 said:

You’re probably right, he might only be effective for 5 years or so. But that gives us several years of good offense and we could still keep looking for pocket passers in future drafts or free agency. Hopefully by then Ron has built a solid team through drafting so our new qb can hit the ground running. 

I mean don't get me wrong I'm not greedy. If you tell me we can have 2012 again but for like 4-5 years straight, I'd take it. That was the most fun I've ever had following this team. 

1 minute ago, mistertim said:

 

I have a bit of a hard time seeing them drafting Willis, to be honest.

 

If you read what Turner said recently (I know it was posted in one of these threads) about evaluating QBs and what he looks for, you'll see that he says a QB's ability to beat teams with their arms is the main thing. He basically said that athleticism and the ability to move and extend plays is also very important and a huge plus in the modern game, but I get the feeling that he sees it as secondary to passing ability.

 

I don't get the feeling he'd be very interested in a running QB, which is what Willis is. Unless he evaluated him and truly thought that he could successfully morph him from a running QB into a pass first QB who used his legs occasionally.

 

But IMO that would take plenty of time and energy, so maybe if they landed a guy like Trubisky and Mariota which would allow them enough time to transform Willis? But the fan base would get antsy waiting for a 1st round rookie QB for any more than 1 season...and with this fan base even 1 season is seriously stretching it.

Yeah I think he wants a guy who can consistently make throws. Remember we went hard for Stafford. 

[Zim489]

37 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

Call these wins what you want but the common denominator in each of these wins is the performance of the defense. Our formula for winning games HAS to be with defense because that's where all of our investments are. If I'm RR I'm looking at what defensive coordinators are available because we need to optimize our performance on that side of the ball. When we play defense we can hold our own with any team in the league...when we don't our QB weakness and offensive deficiencies show up and get magnified.  

Our pass defense is horrendous. Our Dline is easily made irrelevant because our LBs are horrid. Collins on the field doesn’t help either 

[MrJL]

3 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

Our pass defense is horrendous. Our Dline is easily made irrelevant because our LBs are horrid. Collins on the field doesn’t help either 

 

next year's a new year.  New defensive players.  I hope we have three new LBs

[Jds0912]

Just now, Warhead36 said:

I mean don't get me wrong I'm not greedy. If you tell me we can have 2012 again but for like 4-5 years straight, I'd take it. That was the most fun I've ever had following this team. 

Oh me too man, I’ve been watching since 1997 and 2012 was like winning the super bowl to me. Yeah I think we could have that type of offensive excitement for several years if we draft Willis. He has a stronger build and is more coordinated than rg3. Griffin was fast but ran like woody from Toy Story. Willis is probably the only QB in this draft that can bring instant success but that success won’t last as long as we’d like. I totally think that is worth the #11 pick though. Hell I’d trade up to get him. 

[88Comrade2000]

I fully expect us to be very disappointed when it comes to qb.

 

Odds are we only are abke to get Tribusky or Mariotta to be QB1. We don’t draft a qb because whoever is left, doesn’t interest us and we keep Taylor and Kyle as backups.

 

QB1 doesn’t improve from his previous time starting and we have a similar start  in 22 as we did in 21. The difference in 22; Ron is fired by mid season.

 

That is the destiny for the Snyder Commanders in their first year.