The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Remember that time we lost a game?....I think Wentz was the QB.

 

[Daniel.redskins]

Not a perfect game, but my God Howell is an upgrade over Wentz/TH.

[Going Commando]

Some growing pains today.  But he showed some real resiliency today.  The Cardinals tried to rattle him with physicality and he just kept bouncing back.  Felt so good for him when he ran that touchdown in after we kept turning it over in the first half.

 

The whole offense was rough today, and it's clearly still a work in progress.  Sam will get better as he starts reading his pressures better, the receivers will improve their patterns, and eventually the OL will iron out those glaring protection mistakes.  We've got a lot of work to do in order to get to where we need to be.  Hopefully the defense and special teams can keep killing it in the meantime, and keep us afloat.

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

I feel pretty good about Sam. If you just watch his highlights when he’s confident about where to go with the ball, he looks great. If he can get coached up to the point where he’s totally comfortable with the offense, he’s got the skills to be great. Plus, he can make plays off schedule. That first TD pass was a hell of a throw under pressure, rolling to his non-dominant side, into traffic with a guy in his face.

 

Edited September 11, 2023 by Sacks 'n' Stuff

[Warhead36]

The interception sucked but it was a tipped pass. Stuff like that happens in the NFL. I won't kill him for that.

 

The fumble was terrible though. Was shades of Carson Wentz. That needs to be gone from his system completely. Its one thing to fumble if you're hit from the blindside or something like that but a DL basically dove at the ball while he was trying to run away from him and it popped loose. Can't happen man.

 

But I like that he didn't back down after. He was still looking to throw strikes. And immediately on the next drive, he got us into FG range. And the TD run was gutsy as heck. 

 

Beyond that, he had one real bad miss to McLaurin that would have been a first down inside I believe the Cardinals 20 or so. Would have gotten us at least 3. Instead we got no points on that drive. But he was also let down by Logan Thomas's two big drops and of course the Gibson fumble which definitely took at least 3 points off the board.

 

All in all Howell was...meh. I mean he looked about what you'd expect from a 5th round 2nd year QB playing in his second career start. But he's still an upgrade over what we had last year(not by a lot, but he is). I'm more worried that the OL is going to rattle his development. I mean the Cards with a bunch of no names were getting pressure. What's gonna happen when he faces even our division opponents who all feature awesome fronts...

[NoCalMike]

22 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

The interception sucked but it was a tipped pass. Stuff like that happens in the NFL. I won't kill him for that.

 

The fumble was terrible though. Was shades of Carson Wentz. That needs to be gone from his system completely. Its one thing to fumble if you're hit from the blindside or something like that but a DL basically dove at the ball while he was trying to run away from him and it popped loose. Can't happen man.

 

But I like that he didn't back down after. He was still looking to throw strikes. And immediately on the next drive, he got us into FG range. And the TD run was gutsy as heck. 

 

Beyond that, he had one real bad miss to McLaurin that would have been a first down inside I believe the Cardinals 20 or so. Would have gotten us at least 3. Instead we got no points on that drive. But he was also let down by Logan Thomas's two big drops and of course the Gibson fumble which definitely took at least 3 points off the board.

 

All in all Howell was...meh. I mean he looked about what you'd expect from a 5th round 2nd year QB playing in his second career start. But he's still an upgrade over what we had last year(not by a lot, but he is). I'm more worried that the OL is going to rattle his development. I mean the Cards with a bunch of no names were getting pressure. What's gonna happen when he faces even our division opponents who all feature awesome fronts...

 

I agree with all of this.  I think Howell had two passes that I'd deem bad and 100% on him, one was the throw behind Terry, and the other was the one that looked like it could have potentially turned into a game-killing pick 6 when he stared down the target.

 

The actual interception was just a case of bad luck as even the best QB's have their passes tipped and that is how most of them end up with interceptions.  It happens and not much you can do about it once a defender gets it tipped in the air.   The fumble was the more egregious error to me because it reeked of Howell trying to salvage something in a situation where there was nothing to salvage.  The defender broke through the O-line so quick that Howell had little time to escape, and he should have recognized the situation, put both arms around the ball and taken the sack.  Instead it looked like he was trying to work impossible magic and it turned into disaster.

 

I really wish the O-line would have been addressed more diligently in the offseason because when I am watching Brock Purdy on the 49ers, a lot of what he is doing is facilitated because of the pass protection.  He is able to drop back, read, react, and really rifle the ball.  I don't even see Purdy doing much spectacular out there, it's just that he doesn't need to when players have time to get open in their routes, or a RB like McCaffrey finds a cutback lane and goes 50 yards.

 

I think too much of the offense was put on Howell's shoulders too soon, EB got away from the running game way too quick and once the Cards realized this they were  tightening up their defense and playing as if there was no run plays being called.

Edited September 11, 2023 by NoCalMike

[FootballZombie]

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

I mean the Cards with a bunch of no names were getting pressure. What's gonna happen when he faces even our division opponents who all feature awesome fronts...

 

You get Ramsey'd that's what.

 

 

I thought SH was OK today. A lot of good, a lot of bad, so it all averages out to OK.

 

In the short term, even if the hit was dirty, I gotta see Howell take better care of himself tho. He's not a superstar so people wont be afraid to chance truly hitting him and the sidelines are not some magical barrier that is gonna stop a 250 lb incoming missile that wants to take your head off. He has already shown this willingness to take massive damage near the goaline, and really every young player does this, but if he wants to live he can't take shots like that between the 20s too.

 

Also when he runs around behind the line he REALLY bread loaves the ball... like Shady McCoy levels... that can be tweaked.

 

 

He's got a cannon tho. Arm strength was on full display on that drive before the half where every play was just firing rockets to stop routes and trying to fit the ball in b4 the D got there.

[Tress Is The Way]

6 hours ago, NoCalMike said:

 

I agree with all of this.  I think Howell had two passes that I'd deem bad and 100% on him, one was the throw behind Terry, and the other was the one that looked like it could have potentially turned into a game-killing pick 6 when he stared down the target.

 

The actual interception was just a case of bad luck as even the best QB's have their passes tipped and that is how most of them end up with interceptions.  It happens and not much you can do about it once a defender gets it tipped in the air.   The fumble was the more egregious error to me because it reeked of Howell trying to salvage something in a situation where there was nothing to salvage.  The defender broke through the O-line so quick that Howell had little time to escape, and he should have recognized the situation, put both arms around the ball and taken the sack.  Instead it looked like he was trying to work impossible magic and it turned into disaster.

 

I really wish the O-line would have been addressed more diligently in the offseason because when I am watching Brock Purdy on the 49ers, a lot of what he is doing is facilitated because of the pass protection.  He is able to drop back, read, react, and really rifle the ball.  I don't even see Purdy doing much spectacular out there, it's just that he doesn't need to when players have time to get open in their routes, or a RB like McCaffrey finds a cutback lane and goes 50 yards.

 

I think too much of the offense was put on Howell's shoulders too soon, EB got away from the running game way too quick and once the Cards realized this they were  tightening up their defense and playing as if there was no run plays being called.

The other thing about this is that it was pouring for a good part of the day. That field was soaked, the ball was water logged, and it showed. I'll give credit where credit is due, the kids got some big ol cajones to keep in there and win the game.

[Skinsinparadise]

Sam was some ups and downs but more ups IMO.  Tough dude just like he was in college.  Overall, I was pleased.

 

They threw the ball a ton in the first half.  At some point somewhat deep in the game it was 4:1 pass over the run.  

 

Between the heavy pass orientation and the struggiling pass protection, it wasn't the easiest set up for him.  But he perservered through it.

 

For those who debated me in the off season suggesting that Howell's good enough that he can ovecome an O line or Bieiniemy's "scheme" will overcome it.  I didn't buy it.  Look if Tom Brady can be beat in the SB twice because of pass pressure -- why are we expecting essentially a rookie to Superman his way through it, or some coordinator to have a magic scheme to work around it.

 

It's not like the WCO is some novel scheme that we are shocking the world with.  Half the league runs a varaition of it. Yes the quick game in the WCO mitigates things to some extent.  But there is no magic wand scheme that works around a bad O line.  

 

As for the O line improving.   I think they gel better as the season progresses but not sure that drives better results because the easier part of the schedule for them is the first 1/3 with a couple of exceptions.  The Cardinals, Bears, Falcons are bottom rung pass rushes.  The Bills might not be great yet without Von Miller.  Denver has a good secondary but aren't a team that does sacks at least not last year.   Also over time, this O line are more likely to have their depth tested especially with two injury prone guards starting.

 

The thing good on that front for Howell is he got beat up at North Carolina with a bad O line and he didn't come out of it with a deer in headlights vibe like Carr years back in Texas or Ramsey here, etc.

 

Edited September 11, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Tress Is The Way]

9 hours ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

I feel pretty good about Sam. If you just watch his highlights when he’s confident about where to go with the ball, he looks great. If he can get coached up to the point where he’s totally comfortable with the offense, he’s got the skills to be great. Plus, he can make plays off schedule. That first TD pass was a hell of a throw under pressure, rolling to his non-dominant side, into traffic with a guy in his face.

 

This was definitely his best pass all day, the tight window he had to put it through was quite baffling.

[Koolblue13]

Between the Oline being a sieve and Logans drops early and often, along with the pass heavy play calling, we did Sam no favors yesterday and he took an awful beating.

 

Tough kid though and he played pretty well.

[DJHJR86]

The Cardinals gifted the offense 67 yards on their first touchdown.  Josh Dobbs fumbled the ball on the Cardinals 35 yard line for the second.  This game should have everyone concerned with EB as a play caller, but also Howell's development behind that atrocious line.  I legitimately thought he wasn't going to make it through the game.  

[tshile]

The field was sopping wet from rain the night before and morning of. And it rained during the game.  The o line sucks. Thomas dropped 3 balls that hit him in the hand and at least 2 of them were drive killers. 
 

It was his first real game. 
 

The important part is we won. He’s going to take time to grow. Win as many as we can, however it happens, for several weeks and hopefully he starts improving and being more comfortable. That’s the goal. That’s what they did. So, on to next week. 

[RandyHolt]

100% the field was covered the night before / morning - I saw the tarp removed in high speed before the game on the loco news. There was NO mud in sight. Even if it wasnt covered fields now have built in drainage.  NON factor when there are no small hand QBs in the game.

 

I loved the Jon Allen reverse forearm SHIMMER sack late in the game, almost a reverse clothesline.

Edited September 11, 2023 by RandyHolt

[zCommander]

3 minutes ago, tshile said:

It was his first real game.

 

It was his 2nd real game. But first in EB's offense though. 

[Thinking Skins]

On 9/9/2023 at 11:29 AM, Thinking Skins said:

My Howell questions for week 1 and pretty much this season

 

Will he stay healthy?

Will he let the game come to him?

How balanced will the offence be?

How many drops will the offence have?

How many times will the pocket be designed to move and where vs him being a running QB?

How aggressive will AZs HC be with blitzes since Howell struggled on preseason?

 

 

 

So I posted this befe the game and boy was I spot on. 

 

1. will he stay healthy? 

Yes, but only by his own grit and determination. Those dudes were trying to take his head off with dirty plays. That nasty out of bounds shot had me thinking of the RG3 shot in 2014 against jacksonville? or was it Houston? When he came back and then was gone again. 

 

2. Will He let the game come to him? 

This one is harder to judge, and its more on EB than him. but I'm saying that early in the game things were going smooth. But after that second quarter, and even with that successful 2 minute drill, we seemed rattled in the third quarter, So much so that it was like they knew our offense. 

 

3. How balanced will our offense be? 

So its hard to grade an offense that expects production but depends 80% on a second year QB on his second NFL start. That's why I was hoping for more of a running game. I think Arizona was teeing off on BRob too, so instead of settling for 1 and 2 yard runs, EB said lets go for the passing plays. And it opened the offense up early. That's fine, but he never went back to the run until Howell had been sacked 6 times. That wasn't a balanced offense. 

 

4. How many drops will the offence have?

Outside of Logan Thomas, I don't remember any drops. Howell started off with a great completion percentage. It staggered to 61% though

 

5. How many times will the pocket be designed to move and where vs him being a running QB?

I didn't see this much

 

6. How aggressive will AZs HC be with blitzes since Howell struggled on preseason?

I saw this a lot. 

 

 

[tshile]

49 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

It was his 2nd real game. But first in EB's offense though. 

The Dallas game last year doesn’t count. They had nothing to play for. It was nice to see but didn’t mean anything. 

[zCommander]

Just now, tshile said:

The Dallas game last year doesn’t count. They had nothing to play for. It was nice to see but didn’t mean anything. 

 

Except Dallas did play all of their starters. It was a real game.

[tshile]

50 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

100% the field was covered the night before / morning - I saw the tarp removed in high speed before the game on the loco news. There was NO mud in sight. Even if it wasnt covered fields now have built in drainage.  NON factor when there are no small hand QBs in the game.

 

I loved the Jon Allen reverse forearm SHIMMER sack late in the game, almost a reverse clothesline.

They had a concert the week before and the field is notorious for being awful and them painting it green to cover up the lack of grass. 
 

so. I glad to covered it. It’s still a garbage field. 

[DWinzit]

As long as Howell doesn't get permanently disabled by the hits he takes this season, I see no reason not to think he isn't the future of this team. 

 

Yesterday's play reinforced my belief in him!

 

Howell's protection needs to be priority one for this season and definitively for next year.

Edited September 11, 2023 by DWinzit

[kfrankie]

Howell's performance in a nutshell (coming from someone who has played the position):

 

(1) The field conditions were terrible. Rain affects every quarterback's ability to throw a football. Some not so much if they hold the index finger closer to the point of the ball (not on the tip though). The ones that have that finger up more toward the laces, even just half an inch or so, have trouble because its easier to slip. Quarterbacks learn to grip a football once they're old enough to use a standard size high school ball, and then rarely change it. So they can't change their grip based on weather conditions. If I'm drafting a quarterback, one of the questions I'm going to ask during the sit down interview is how do you hold the ball, throw him a ball and have him show me. You can expect 1-3 games per year will be affected by rain.

 

(2) Howell's highlights were impressive.  His receivers, particularly Logan Thomas, didn't help him much. Rain affects receivers too. 

 

(3) Howell's misses scared the **** out of me. Again, it was a rain day, so all I can say is he missed some passes that he probably would not have missed on a dry day. Can't say diddly poo about his judgment because I don't know what his reads are.

 

(4) Other than that, can't tell a damn thing from the Fox camera angle. Maybe holding onto to the ball too long, but rather have that than see him try to chuck it out of bounds and have it slip out of his hand and go up for grabs.  O-Line was terrible in first half after the first couple drives. 

 

Edited September 11, 2023 by kfrankie

[srtman04]

I will say that Howell so far, has shown the ability to recover from bad plays he makes.   I can't understate how important that is moving forward.  I just hope he doesn't get killed by our paper o-line before the 4th game of this season......

 

I have waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more concerns on our Oline than anything else on this team.   Ron Rivera should be ****ing ashamed and embarrassed.  

[D’Pablo]

This O-Line has no clue when it comes to dealing with stunts. It seemed like our young interior guys were the most impacted, though Wylie gave up that quick pressure resulting in a sack, too. Most of this is on coaching and mental breakdowns, so I'm hopeful that the protection improves over the season. My optimism is mostly predicated on knowing that lines with multiple new starters take time to gel and I've seen them get better over the course of season. 

[Skinsinparadise]

Eagles looked formidable in the first quater and a half but then came down to earth.  Their game against Minny on Thursday should be interesting.

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, Thinking Skins said:

 

 

6. How aggressive will AZs HC be with blitzes since Howell struggled on preseason?

I saw this a lot. 

 

 

 

Did they blitz much?  Looked like a lot of fake blitzes and then they turned back to cover.  But I won't know until I see the stats.  But in real time it felt like a lot of 4 man rushes.