The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[bird_1972]

2 minutes ago, tmandoug1 said:

Nmind, they just beat the Bills with Zach Wilson.

 

They aren't going to be able to do that every game. Wilson is hot garbage.

[tmandoug1]

Just now, bird_1972 said:

 

They aren't going to be able to do that every game. Wilson is hot garbage.

They just beat the Bills......predictably the AFC East Champions. You never know. 

[zCommander]

4 minutes ago, tmandoug1 said:

They just beat the Bills......predictably the AFC East Champions. You never know. 

 

Their defense and special team won the game. Wilson was just a place holder. 

[Fan since a Fetus]

I look at the first game of the season as an extended preseason game now. You just don’t know what you are going to get and teams are still figuring things out. 
 

There are teams that lost this week that will be better than they looked and teams that will be worse. I think we’ll be mediocre unless the offensive line decides that we need 10 QBs this year. 

Edit: something just occurred to me, this is all obvious 🤷

 

Fan since a Fetus must reply to Fan since a Fetus’s obvious post…drumroll…….

 

 

 

Edited September 12, 2023 by Fan since a Fetus

[Fan since a Fetus]

I wonder if Zack Wilson did any voodoo or some sort of MILF Magic to hurt A-A-Ron?

 

Edited September 12, 2023 by Fan since a Fetus

[NickyJ]

Remember when some people were pulling their hair out because we signed an old, veteran QB in free agency and he didn't make it through the first quarter before his season ending injury? Man, that was such a dumb decision to put so much resources and faith into that one old QB at the tail end of his career. I can't think of a worse way to handle a QB situation. Only the Commies would be dumb enough to do that. 🙃

[Going Commando]

12 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Judging by Gibson's eyes, got some doubts that he was supposed to chip on the edge his head-eyes are directed elsewhere from the jump but no way to know.

 

Wylie overset to the outside.  Look at how wide he plants his left leg, how is he readjusting from that?

 

His left leg is his inside leg.  I don't think there was a problem with the depth of his set, his first steps are pretty shallow looking.  I think his problem was he missed his punch with his right hand and it left him lunging.  The delay in Gibson's release is why I'm pretty sure he was assigned a chip.  I'm thinking he was supposed to chip whatever came through the B gap and just didn't see that it was the end and not the tackle or a blitzer.  But now that I look at the play again, the issue might have been the protection call itself.  That was a stunt and there is just no space for Wylie to redirect inside when he's got a delayed route running through that gap.  Notice how his left foot almost tangles up with Gibson's right as he goes through?  It also cuts off Cosmi from being able to follow the DT outside, and Wylie and Cosmi actually run into each other.

 

I think if everyone recognizes stunt in time, the only chance that protection works is if Gibson chips the DE allowing Wylie to take the DT from Cosmi as he rushes outside.  But I do agree that Wylie needed a better punch to slow down the inside rush of the edge in order to give time for Cosmi to recover.

 

But at the end of the day, the reason that play ended in disaster is because Sam held the ball way too long, and he held it loose.  He's hitching and patting the ball as the edge comes through, and he spun around in the pocket looking to extend the play as he realizes he's got pressure.  There are four or five seconds between the snap and him getting hit, the ball just has to come out way before then.  Maybe the WRs all got jammed up and there was never an opening to throw, or maybe he's got cobwebs from getting drilled at the beginning of the game and he missed his window.  Regardless, his #1 job is to protect the ball, and he was trying too hard to make a big play.

[DJHJR86]

https://x.com/andrewperloff/status/1701441809711354193?s=20

 

 

PLEASE Jets sign him.  It would be an early Christmas present if he started the game on Christmas Eve for this fanbase.

Edited September 12, 2023 by DJHJR86

[Skinsinparadise]

57 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

His left leg is his inside leg.  I don't think there was a problem with the depth of his set, his first steps are pretty shallow looking.  I think his problem was he missed his punch with his right hand and it left him lunging. 

 

OK as a rightly it looks like his left leg to me but its irrelevant to the point whether it was his right or left.  The way he initially set, as for where he squared his shoulders, it didn't come off that he was expecting help on the inside or at a minimum wasn't relying on it.  The defender shows that he's going to the outside -- Wyliue's outside shoulder, body language wise.  Wylie follows.  The way Wylie plants his leg, its really hard to adjust from that.  Plant your leg that far and then try to reposition that leg quickly the opposite direction.  That's not easy to do.  I tried it and am in pretty good shape, agility wise.    Yes his hands were part of the problem, too.  Agree he was lunging and that was why his leg was positioned like that.

 

But to me it looked like a simple case of Wylie guessing and guessing wrong.  As I pointed out in another thread, I watched two full games of him.  And in those he seemed vulnerable to counters -- he's set up with a rip move to the outside, bull rush perhaps, again and again and then on a critical play go with a counter to the inside like here with the spin move.  London Fletcher who knows a thing or two about the game talked about Wylie's vulnerability during the preseason to well set up counters.

 

As for Gibson, it looked like a delayed route where its possible that he wanted to squeeze through the B or C gap and judging which one.  The threw a lot of them in the camp practice I watched as I explained at the time.  Sometimes they chipped on them, sometimes they didn't.  Sometimes it came from the RB going outside, sometimes it was inside.  Gibson was looking away from Wylie.  I couldn't see Howell's eyes that well but from what I saw he was looking in the directiion of Gibson. 

 

 

Edited September 12, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

Bullock's take on that sack

 

 

[Going Commando]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Bullock's take on that sack

 

 

 

I'd like for Bullock to explain how Wylie is supposed to cut off that inside counter with Gibson literally on his hip, or how that protection as drawn up was supposed to get that stunt blocked, or why Sam still has the ball in his hands four seconds into the play.

[tmandoug1]

On 9/12/2023 at 12:00 AM, zCommander said:

 

Their defense and special team won the game. Wilson was just a place holder. 

As we love to say here on Extremeskins Stadium, a win is a win!

Edited September 13, 2023 by tmandoug1

[MartinC]

23 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

I'd like for Bullock to explain how Wylie is supposed to cut off that inside counter with Gibson literally on his hip, or how that protection as drawn up was supposed to get that stunt blocked, or why Sam still has the ball in his hands four seconds into the play.

Watching live I thought Gibson missed the chip. Wylie does have issues sometimes though oversetting - this was not that. 
 

Sam has to protect the ball though. Should have been a throw away or sometimes just take the sack. 

[Chris 44]

24 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

I'd like for Bullock to explain how Wylie is supposed to cut off that inside counter with Gibson literally on his hip, or how that protection as drawn up was supposed to get that stunt blocked, or why Sam still has the ball in his hands four seconds into the play.

Looking at the stills it appears that Gibson is pretty much even with Wylie while 45 was just to Wylies right which might have led Gibson to believe that he was not needed at that instant? Half second later Gibson is past Wylie and 45 spins inside. Was Gibson suppose to delay a fraction longer before passing through the line? I have no idea if Gibson was supposed to delay longer, just my thoughts.

[zCommander]

1 hour ago, DJHJR86 said:

https://x.com/andrewperloff/status/1701441809711354193?s=20

 

 

PLEASE Jets sign him.  It would be an early Christmas present if he started the game on Christmas Eve for this fanbase.

 

Adam Schefter must have been reading the game day thread this morning since one our own ES member said it first last night.  

 

Edited September 12, 2023 by zCommander

[Skinsinparadise]

I don't put that sack on Howell.  I put the fumble on him.  So I agree with Bullock.   And also with Keim who rewatched it. 

 

But I don't care enough to keep arguing it. 

[Going Commando]

8 minutes ago, MartinC said:

Watching live I thought Gibson missed the chip. Wylie does have issues sometimes though oversetting - this was not that. 
 

Sam has to protect the ball though. Should have been a throw away or sometimes just take the sack. 

 

Yeah I think Wylie just got beat by whiffing on his punch.  It's not great, but I think that play was doomed and I can't put even the plurality of the blame for the outcome on him.  I think the core issue with the protection is that they've got this stunt from the DL developing off of a zone blitz with like a three verts concept and no hot reads available, and a delayed route running right through the middle of that action.  Gibson was going to cut off both Wylie and Cosmi due to the timing of his release, so if he's in the neighborhood, then the only real chance for getting that thing blocked was probably for him to help out with the protection.  The Cardinals showed a seven man rush and we've got a seven man protection schemed.  That's why Gibson is delayed in his route, he's reading the blitz, and when he sees three drop into zones and he figures he's good to run.  But he doesn't see the stunt developing.  I don't think Wylie, Cosmi, or Howell did either until it was too late.

 

Howell gets stuck holding the ball at the end of his drop because I think he was surprised by the zone drops playside.  Maybe if Logan Thomas delivers his chip and flashes his numbers a little quicker to Howell then he can go there with the ball, and it kind of looks like Howell is looking at him briefly before moving off him when he realizes he's getting inside pressure.  But it just wasn't a good play call for a situation where they're showing a seven man blitz to have three long developing vertical routes dialed up and two delayed releases.  But more than that, it was awful game management from Howell, and that's ultimately where I put the blame for that outcome.  It's 3rd and 10 from your 26 with a minute left in the half, and you've got one time out.  Gambling and waiting around for the big play in that situation is just an inexperienced QB pressing.  One of the worst things you can do there is to take a big sack, and pretty much the only worse thing is also being loose with the ball and coughing it up.  Bad play calls will happen.  Protection mistakes will happen.  The QB is trusted to manage the situation, get the ball out, and not turn it over.  Howell has five seconds between the snap and the hit.  Even though the protection got all messed up and Wylie missed his block, Sam has just got to make better decisions with the ball and he had the time to do it.

 

I'm not killing Sam though.  Young QBs make mistakes like this.  I'm arguing against folks trying to pin that play on Wylie.

[MartinC]

The hope with a young QB is they learn from reps and experience. You start to recognize things without really even having to think about it - that’s when the game slows down. It just becomes muscle memory. 
 

But even experienced QBs will have plays and even whole games where they just have brain farts and or make mistakes and start to press. Get outside their comfort zone. 
 

If Sam had the exact same game Josh Allen had last night we’d be killing him. Allen made more basic errors last night than I’ve seen a supposed elite level QB make for years. It was like backyard football before Thanksgiving dinner - with similar results.

[mistertim]

4 minutes ago, MartinC said:

The hope with a young QB is they learn from reps and experience. You start to recognize things without really even having to think about it - that’s when the game slows down. It just becomes muscle memory. 
 

But even experienced QBs will have plays and even whole games where they just have brain farts and or make mistakes and start to press. Get outside their comfort zone. 
 

If Sam had the exact same game Josh Allen had last night we’d be killing him. Allen made more basic errors last night than I’ve seen a supposed elite level QB make for years. It was like backyard football before Thanksgiving dinner - with similar results.

 

I think we should offer the Bills a conditional 4th round pick for Allen. Probably worth it to kick the tires for a low round pick, even on a guy who makes so many basic mistakes. The talent is clearly there though. We might have to add in a 6th or 7th as a sweetener, but those picks rarely do anything anyway.

[skinny21]

Timing it, Wylie’s beat in less than 2 seconds, and I’ve got 2.4-2.5 seconds until the pressure is in Howell’s face, then one more second until the sack/strip.  Theoretically maybe the ball should come out when he hits the top of his drop, but I’m not sure the coverage or routes allowed that - can’t tell for sure from the broadcast angle.  The 3 receivers to the weak side look like they are still mid-route, as is Thomas (in part due to his chipping), and then of course Gibson is just coming out of the backfield.  IMO, Wylie blew it to some degree by missing his punch, but the play design was maybe a touch too aggressive.  On the other hand, in defense of the design, Thomas and Gibson chipping should have bought more time.  And in defense of Wylie, if he thinks he has help inside, it makes sense his focus is on not getting beat outside.  Think a large part of it was just unfortunate timing.

[goskins10]

Offenses are typically behind defenses to start the year, especailly with a new QB and OC. The oline is a weak spot for sure. But if they stay healthy I could see them jelling some as the season goes on. Let's of silly mistakes that clean up with more snaps together. 

 

Sam lookd like a rookie but as long as he learns from these snaps he will be fine. I love his toughness, especailly his mental toughness. He made some great plays but also some real head scratchers. Again, this is to be expected. Not sure why the doom and gloom about the Off. It was day one of a new offense with a new OC and QB.

 

The EB hate from some is of course over the top. Give him and Sam and the rest of the off to get to know each other. The players will start to get comfortable and stop over thinking so much. Let's rivist after 4 to 6 gsm. But then he will know his players much better. Can start to scheme to thier strengths. 

 

A win is a win is a win. Glad to have it. Now lets go beat a very getable Denver team. 

[Warhead36]

I don't have an issue with EB. The strength of this offense is the WRs. He tried to get them the ball, but it didn't work for a variety of reasons.

 

Howell will get better as the season progresses. I just fear the OL won't allow him to develop properly.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

[MartinC]

That might be all she wrote for Rodgers. Tough injury to come back from for someone approaching 40 before the end of this year. 
 

Jets give up a 2nd round pick for 4 snaps and zero completions.

[Chris 44]

1 minute ago, MartinC said:

That might be all she wrote for Rodgers. Tough injury to come back from for someone approaching 40 before the end of this year. 
 

Jets give up a 2nd round pick for 4 snaps and zero completions.

What's the cap implications?