The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

3 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

The way Ron outsmarted Ron and out bid him for Wentz certainly removes any doubt of his trade savvy.

And he deserves criticism for the Wentz trade. But this feels like getting pissed at the McDonalds employee for getting your McRib order wrong before actually leaving the house. 😆

Edited September 12, 2023 by AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy

[Conn]

33 minutes ago, wit33 said:

Depth has little value to the fan it seems. 

In this case? Because many know that salvaging a .500 or worse season with Jacoby Brissett has no value. If we lose the possibility of developing Howell this season due to serious injury, there’s no saving this regime. If Howell is balling and just misses a game or two and Brissett keeps us in the playoff race that’s one thing. Speaking for myself, I don’t think we’re living in that reality. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

2 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

Ron out smarting someone in a trade? You have a better chance of Wylie blocking a replacement level DE on an inside move.

They did pull off a beautiful trade which netted Dotson, Howell, Turner, and I think a few others.  

 

So, they HAVE done a good one. They've also done a bad one.  

[redskinss]

1 minute ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

They did pull off a beautiful trade which netted Dotson, Howell, Turner, and I think a few others

Robinson 

[CobraCommander]

Depth at QB doesn’t exist*. If your number 1 goes down or isn’t the guy it’s over. Brisket or Fromm, doesn’t matter. If you can get anything for Brisket that’s a good trade. 
 

*Unless you have a rookie draft pick you’re developing. We don’t. 

Edited September 12, 2023 by CobraCommander

[method man]

On the Wentz trade, is everyone forgetting that was Snyder driven? It was reported in one of the many DVN Jr stories that Snyder mandated the trade get done. I don't put the level of comp paid on Ron. 

[wit33]

24 minutes ago, Conn said:

In this case? Because many know that salvaging a .500 or worse season with Jacoby Brissett has no value. If we lose the possibility of developing Howell this season due to serious injury, there’s no saving this regime. If Howell is balling and just misses a game or two and Brissett keeps us in the playoff race that’s one thing. Speaking for myself, I don’t think we’re living in that reality. 

I wish the NFL was like some soccer leagues in Europe, must win a certain amount of games to remain in the league or something like that. Shift perspective. 

Playoffs is a huge deal (to me) must protect that potential!

 

This SB or bust is silly (to me). Not necessarily implying this is what you’re saying. 

Edited September 12, 2023 by wit33

[Conn]

10 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

They did pull off a beautiful trade which netted Dotson, Howell, Turner, and I think a few others.  

 

So, they HAVE done a good one. They've also done a bad one.  

Olave seems to be a bonafide stud. I liked the trade down and still do but it really relies heavily on whether Dotson/Robinson/Howell/Turner actually turn out to be some percentage of our offensive core going forward. If two years from now the outcome ends up being Dotson as a WR2 and a bunch of backups, then I will struggle to call that a win even though I’ll appreciate the process behind it. But “beautiful”, idk that’ll require a favorable outcome if Olave keeps studding out over a long career. 
 

Like how we traded down out of the spot where the Seahawks took Lockett, and got some other pieces plus Crowder. Early on some people felt good about that but Lockett went on to be a great player over a long career. 

[NewCliche21]

Man, the more I look back on the **** the Cards did against Howell, the more I wanna hear Rivera say something out loud.  Stand up for the guy. Those hits were bull****.

[Conn]

19 minutes ago, wit33 said:

I wish the NFL was like some soccer leagues in Europe, must win a certain amount of games to remain in the league or something like that. Shift perspective. 

Playoffs is a huge deal (to me) must protect that potential!

 

This SB or bust is silly (to me). Not necessarily implying this is what you’re saying. 

I’m not Super Bowl or bust (for this season—although I think it’s a worthy organizational mission statement), I just don’t agree that this is a potential playoff team. To me, the only thing that can be salvaged from this season (other than the joy of learning to enjoy Washington football again without Snyder) is for the next regime to find out if Howell is worth continuing to develop. So it’s not pointless. But if Howell goes on IR I don’t care how close to .500 we can grasp for with Brissett lol. 
 

(I’m obviously exaggerating to make my point—all of our young players need to develop and grow, as well as the vets that will be carried forward. But this is pretty close to how I feel)

Edited September 12, 2023 by Conn

[FootballZombie]

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

They did pull off a beautiful trade which netted Dotson, Howell, Turner, and I think a few others. 

 

Olave is ballin. Early returns are not in our favor.

Dot is gonna have to get in Olave's stratosphere stat wise or Howell has to turn out to have the goods and be a franchise QB for us to win that trade.

 

Until then, advantage NO.

A bunch of also-rans don't stack up to a cheap star

[CobraCommander]

48 minutes ago, NewCliche21 said:

Man, the more I look back on the **** the Cards did against Howell, the more I wanna hear Rivera say something out loud.  Stand up for the guy. Those hits were bull****.

I hope he sent the film to the league for review. Airing it publicly is sour grapes. Don’t give those goons public material. They’ll just relish in it 

 

[zCommander]

37 minutes ago, Conn said:

I’m not Super Bowl or bust (for this season—although I think it’s a worthy organizational mission statement), I just don’t agree that this is a potential playoff team. To me, the only thing that can be salvaged from this season (other than the joy of learning to enjoy Washington football again without Snyder) is for the next regime to find out if Howell is worth continuing to develop. So it’s not pointless. But if Howell goes on IR I don’t care how close to .500 we can grasp for with Brissett lol. 
 

(I’m obviously exaggerating to make my point—all of our young players need to develop and grow, as well as the vets that will be carried forward. But this is pretty close to how I feel)

 

What if Harris and co. allows Ron and EB one more year to see what they can do with Howell (if he truly is the guy) before he moves on from them? OR would you just rather start over next year with new coaches for Howell and yet to learn a new system again?

[SkinsFTW]

7 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

 

Olave is ballin. Early returns are not in our favor.

Dot is gonna have to get in Olave's stratosphere stat wise or Howell has to turn out to have the goods and be a franchise QB for us to win that trade.

 

Until then, advantage NO.

A bunch of also-rans don't stack up to a cheap star

 

Do you really think that Olave would have done a lot more than Dotson here in this offense?

[FootballZombie]

2 minutes ago, SkinsFTW said:

Do you really think that Olave would have done a lot more than Dotson here in this offense?

 

I don't think it matters. He put up 1K and Dot put up 500. They will be compared as such.

 

If they come out of the trade w/ a stud and we don't get anything remotely close to that, then we lose the trade.

[NickyJ]

Thinking on it more, I don't expect the Jets to come to us for anything. They need to get a QB who can fit well with Wilson's poor throwing and light use of mobility. When they build their offense around that style, they need someone who can plug and play straight into it with the same style. Brissett doesn't fit the bill, but there's a backup QB for the Falcons who does.

Edited September 12, 2023 by NickyJ

[zCommander]

13 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

 

I don't think it matters. He put up 1K and Dot put up 500. They will be compared as such.

 

If they come out of the trade w/ a stud and we don't get anything remotely close to that, then we lose the trade.

 

Was Olave the primary target for their QB? I think context matters here. TH had chemistry with Terry and made him 1K WR last year. Wentz did throw more to Dotson than Terry though. 

[NewCliche21]

15 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

 

I don't think it matters. He put up 1K and Dot put up 500. They will be compared as such.

 

If they come out of the trade w/ a stud and we don't get anything remotely close to that, then we lose the trade.

 

This is John Madden as a GM verbatim.

[Conn]

20 minutes ago, zCommander said:

What if Harris and co. allows Ron and EB one more year to see what they can do with Howell (if he truly is the guy) before he moves on from them? OR would you just rather start over next year with new coaches for Howell and yet to learn a new system again?

If Howell develops to the point where he can save their jobs this year, then they probably deserve the chance to keep things rolling even if I’d disagree with the choice, because that would mean he’s balling. 

 

But that won’t happen imo. Only Harris knows what he needs to see to make that choice either way, though, so it’s pretty pointless to speculate. I just doubt they can show enough to hold off change. I’m not being negative, I just don’t think this is a playoff team. Even if Howell shows enough promise to justify continuing to develop him rather than replacing him, it’ll be another regime that keeps it going imo. 

[zCommander]

1 minute ago, Conn said:

If Howell develops to the point where he can save their jobs this year, then they probably deserve the chance to keep things rolling even if I’d disagree with the choice, because that would mean he’s balling. 

 

But that won’t happen imo. Only Harris knows what he needs to see to make that choice either way, though, so it’s pretty pointless to speculate. I just doubt they can show enough to hold off change. I’m not being negative, I just don’t think this is a playoff team. Even if Howell shows enough promise to justify continuing to develop him rather than replacing him, it’ll be another regime that keeps it going imo. 

 

That makes sense. But I was also looking from the business side as well. I think both of them have a contract for one more year so does Harris eat the money or says I am going to take one more year to get everything else in place and then reboot. It was just something I was thinking of as a possibility. At the end of the day, yes whatever is better for the team and the fans. 

[FootballZombie]

4 minutes ago, zCommander said:

I think context matters here.

 

I don't think context matters either.

 

When they compare the trade and one team has a guy w/ massive production while the other side does not... that's all that they are gonna care about.

Olave was a top 20 WR last year. If that improves nobody is gonna give our trade an asterisk b/c Dot is only our #2 or Turner didn't play much. There just gonna say look what you coulda got w/ Olave.

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

I have no problem criticizing Ron for the things he actually does, but criticizing him for how he might or might not handle a hypothetical trade is kinda silly. 

 

For me its not a criticism of Ron.  It's a criticism of ANY HC running the FO.  By nature, their ambition will not always coincide with the long term best interest of the franchise.  That's not Ron's fault.  But it brings home why we don't want ANY HC running this FO.

 

I was OK with it when Dan was here because otherwise Dan would be the defacto GM.  But with Dan gone we want the end of these eras where Joe Gibbs, Shanny and now Ron are in charge of the FO.  There wouldn't be any other team in the NFL that would want those guys to run their FOs.  Why?  It's like hiring your plumber to do the houses electric work -- they might not be bad at it but you would do better if you had an actual plumber do the plumbing work and the electrician to do the electrical work.

 

I get why Dan did it because heck no one big would want to come here otherwise.  But we don't have to live in that world anymore.

Edited September 12, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[zCommander]

7 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

 

I don't think context matters either.

 

When they compare the trade and one team has a guy w/ massive production while the other side does not... that's all that they are gonna care about.

Olave was a top 20 WR last year. If that improves nobody is gonna give our trade an asterisk b/c Dot is only our #2 or Turner didn't play much. There just gonna say look what you coulda got w/ Olave.

 

Okay then look at the stats then. Dotson had 35 catches for 523 yards. Olave was targeted 72 times to get 1K+ yards. If you double the targets for Dotson you will get over 1K yards for him as well. Terry had 77 catches. 

 

In another words they are both the same. 

 

Edited September 12, 2023 by zCommander

[FootballZombie]

Just now, zCommander said:

In another words they are both the same. 

 

Until Dot puts it on the field he is not on Olave's level.

He has the potential to be, but until he does it that's all it is.

 

 

And as long as Olave is on his current trajectory, until at least one of the pieces we got in his trade puts at least above average play at the position in question on the field, we can't even begin to entertain the idea that we got the better end of the trade.

 

[zCommander]

2 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

Until Dot puts it on the field he is not on Olave's level.

 

 

I guess we will see what happens this year then.