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The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

Koolblue13

By Koolblue13
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Thinking Skins

Thinking Skins

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Posted
38 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Listened to Jay on Standig.

 

He loves the D line -- naturally he does since his regime drafted Sweat, Payne, Allen.  I thinks they need to lean into them naturally to win games and he thinks they can grind out some wins thanks to that unit.

 

On an aside in other podcasts, its clear that Jay pounded the table for Payne in that draft and didn't want to take Sua Cravens.  But he was on board with the Josh Doctson pick.  I recall other reporters said Sean McVay loved Doctson in particular in that draft.

 

He watched the Denver and thinks this team can beat them.

 

He likes Howell, doesn't love him clearly based on some of the other podcasts I've listened to from him.  He compares him to Minshew.

 

He doesn't think much of the O line.

 

He thinks highly of thr WRs and gets Bieniemy's attempts early in the game to get them the ball.

 

He went over Mike Shanahan's recent interview about them turning down the 2nd pick in the draft for Kirk.   Jay goes they could have gotten a lot more than just that.  But Bruce and Dan hated Shanny so that was more important to them then getting trade compensation

 

He said the new ownership comes off night and day over the previous one.  And that's great for this franchise.  

 

 

 

 

The other thing is that, it wasn't just that he said that he wasn't a fan of this OL. He also said "They probably tried, but offensive linemen don't grow on trees" and "its had to find these guys" mentioned Spensor Long and Morgon Moses and a bunch of other guys who they brought in. Then they went into the Kirk talk. 

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Warhead36

Warhead36

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10 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

He's closer to being the starter than being released. Ridder is not good. Drake London, their top pick last year had zero catches and Pitts wasn't much better. TH will get the ball to those guys.

As someone who fell for the Pitts trap in fantasy this year, yeah I am about done with Arthur Smith and that garbage 1950s style offense.

46 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Listened to Jay on Standig.

 

He loves the D line -- naturally he does since his regime drafted Sweat, Payne, Allen.  I thinks they need to lean into them naturally to win games and he thinks they can grind out some wins thanks to that unit.

 

On an aside in other podcasts, its clear that Jay pounded the table for Payne in that draft and didn't want to take Sua Cravens. 

 

 

 

 

IIRC Vita Vea was our number 1 choice that draft. He had a better start to his career but I think Payne has surpassed him as a player at this point. Derwin James was the guy the fans(including myself) wanted but he's injury prone while Payne is an absolute ironman.

 

Another example of why you wait to judge draft picks. Some guys peak earlier while others hit their stride later. I think Payne is just now going to enter his best years, although he may not get 11.5 sacks again.

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

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9 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

The other thing is that, it wasn't just that he said that he wasn't a fan of this OL. He also said "They probably tried, but offensive linemen don't grow on trees" and "its had to find these guys" mentioned Spensor Long and Morgon Moses and a bunch of other guys who they brought in. Then they went into the Kirk talk. 

 

If its delving into detail he basically ripped them for losing Trent.  I've heard him expand on the point in other podcasts -- he doesn't like the O line and generally doesn't defend Ron on it.  but yes he did say they aren't easy to find good ones in FA. 

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

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27 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

 

That was one of Jay's better interviews. I listened to it and was really nodding my head with his insight. 

 

You say the blanket statment "He likes Howell, doesn't love him clearly based on some of the other podcasts I've listened to from him.  He compares him to Minshew."

 

What he was saying in this interview was the give and take of a runing/athetic QB like Howell and how it will make your line look bad because they will hold the ball too long thinking they can make more plays than they should. Then Standing said how do you coach that out of them. Then he said, no no no, you don't coach that out of them because thats what makes them special. You've just just got to hope they learn to get better with it. 

 

And you mentioned Minshew, I thought I heard him mention Hurtz. 

 

Hurts?  You mean Heinicke?   He mentioned Heinicke.  That's not the first time he's done that.  I didn't mention Heinicke because some here would take it as a shot.  And I don't think he meant it that way.

 

Are you suggesting me saying Jay likes but doesn't love Howell is off -- that he's closer to loving him?  I definitely don't get that impression at all.  He likes his toughness-mobility.  But he's not been effusive about him just yet.  He thinks they are a 7-8 win team because he's not as good as the other QBs including Daniel Jones in this division.  He said it just like that in a different podcast.

 

I don't care.  I don't need everyone to love Howell from the jump. 

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Thinking Skins

Thinking Skins

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6 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Hurts?  You mean Heinicke?   He mentioned Heinicke.  That's not the first time he's done that.  I didn't mention Heinicke because some here would take it as a shot.  And I don't think he meant it that way.

 

Are you suggesting me saying Jay likes but doesn't love Howell is off -- that he's closer to loving him?  I definitely don't get that impression at all.  He likes his toughness-mobility.  But he's not been effusive about him just yet.  He thinks they are a 7-8 win team because he's not as good as the other QBs including Daniel Jones in this division.  He said it just like that in a different podcast.

 

I don't care.  I don't need everyone to love Howell from the jump. 

No, he mentioned Hurts. Standig mentioned Heinicke, but Jay mentioned Hurts. I'm trying to get the exact quote. 

 

I'm at 31:29 of the Podcast (Standig room only) and Ben Standig just compared Howell to a combination to Heinicke and Wentz, but is unwilling to get rid of the ball and asks Jay if you want to "beat it out of a young QB"

 

Jay responds "well you don't want to beat it out of him because you do need his ability to make plays off schedule. That is a critical component of football QBs nowadays. The true dropback QBs are hard to find and they're not productive at a young age. You need to have the mobility. See Jaylen Hurts what he does with his legs, QB designed runs, obviouisly Lamar, and some of these other teams. and Qbs that are athletic. It takes a lot of the pressre off Eric Biemiemy. You call a play that's covered and he scrambles around fifteen twenty yards and gets you a first down and new set of downs thats critical. So you don't want to beat it out of him but you have to understand Sam, you don't want to make a bad play worse. "

 

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Ghost of

Ghost of

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35 minutes ago, Fan since a Fetus said:

^Thats where guys like Tyreek Hill come into play. Hit them on a crossing route and you never know when they will take it to the house.

Isn't that exactly what they used to say about the West Coast Offense.  That you get more consistent chance at 5+ yards and even guys like John Taylor or Jerry Rice going all the way (or quite a distance) on a slant or cross.

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mistertim

mistertim

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13 minutes ago, Ghost of said:

Isn't that exactly what they used to say about the West Coast Offense.  That you get more consistent chance at 5+ yards and even guys like John Taylor or Jerry Rice going all the way (or quite a distance) on a slant or cross.

 

I think that's probably more pure old school WCO. Nowadays those concepts are still used but there's much more variety thrown in, most likely.

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Fan since a Fetus

Fan since a Fetus

Posted
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14 minutes ago, Ghost of said:

Isn't that exactly what they used to say about the West Coast Offense.  That you get more consistent chance at 5+ yards and even guys like John Taylor or Jerry Rice going all the way (or quite a distance) on a slant or cross.


yeah, that’s pretty much it. Short quick reads with slants and crosses where if you hit the receiver in stride you can get big yardage. 
 

Andy Reid uses a ton of west coast concepts. But, he is really adaptable to his players strengths. But that’s why I think he’s been the best coach of the last 20 years.  I really hope Bienemy follows his lead.

 

 You’ll have to take a shot here out there, like the McLaurin play, because it seems (and I have no data to support this position) a ton of pass interference flags are thrown on deep shots. 
 

McClaurin can do it all, but it will be nice if Bienemy really uses Dotson and Samuel specifically for this purpose.

 

 Unlike others here, I would like to see Gibson on the field more. Especially catching passes out of the backfield. He just needs to secure the damn ball
 

Teams are going to crush our o line, get really confident and over pursue at times. We need to figure out how to make them pay. 

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mistertim

mistertim

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19 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I don't have the exact # and this is probably out of my butt but I swear at least a quarter of deep shots that are remotely contested will result in DPI. Its actually a legitimate strategy to just throw deep shots randomly and try to draw the flag.

 

Especially when you have receivers like Terry who have the speed and route running ability to consistently get behind defenders. At that point the CBs only shot to stop a TD may be to interfere.

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philibusters

philibusters

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1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

As someone who fell for the Pitts trap in fantasy this year, yeah I am about done with Arthur Smith and that garbage 1950s style offense.

IIRC Vita Vea was our number 1 choice that draft. He had a better start to his career but I think Payne has surpassed him as a player at this point. Derwin James was the guy the fans(including myself) wanted but he's injury prone while Payne is an absolute ironman.

 

Another example of why you wait to judge draft picks. Some guys peak earlier while others hit their stride later. I think Payne is just now going to enter his best years, although he may not get 11.5 sacks again.

 

Payne and Vea are just different.  Vea is the best pure nose tackle in the league and if you have a defense that utilizes that, he is great.   Payne can play the nose reasonably well, but when he takes on duo blocks he is going to get moved a much higher percentage of the time than Vea.  Payne is a good run defender when playing the 3 technique, but as a nose he'll lose some matchups.     As a pass rusher, Payne leaves Vea in the dust.  Vea is actually  decent for a guy his size at generating a pass rusher, but he just doesn't have the quickness Payne does and is much less of an effective pass rusher than Payne.

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zCommander

zCommander

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Posted (edited)
55 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

That's exactly what I was thinking. If it had been anybody other than Hoffman who tweeted that I would have responded that, but I do't think Hoffman likes to be corrected. 

 

Multiple people asked him about that throw and his response is...

 

 

 

 

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Thinking Skins said:

No, he mentioned Hurts. Standig mentioned Heinicke, but Jay mentioned Hurts. I'm trying to get the exact quote. 

 

 

 

 

Actually Yes.   I just relistened.  And yes I was correct,  29.57 minutes in.  On Howell, Jay goes  "he actually reminds me a lot of Heinicke that they had last year, he reminds me a little bit of Gardner Minshew." 

 

You clearly didn't listen to the whole thing or I gather you focused after 30 miniues in as opposed to before that.  That's when Standig kicked in about Heinicke.  But clearly you missed some of that part too because even when Standig referenced Heinicke he led off the point by repeating what Jay said earlier in the podcast that Howell reminded him of Heinicke and then from there Standig opined himself.  

 

You referencing Jay saying you need in todays NFL to have guys with mobility and then hitting Hurts and Lamar was in reference to the point about needing mobility.  He didn't say that Howell reminds him of Hurts.  He referenced the power of mobility in response to a question from Standig.   And Jay suggested you want Howell to run. 

 

 

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Thinking Skins

Thinking Skins

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5 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

I just relistened.  And yes I was correct,  29.57 minutes in.  On Howell, Jay goes  "he actually reminds me a lot of Heinicke that they had last year, he reminds me a little bit of Gardner Minshew." 

 

You clearly didn't listen to the whole thing or I gather you focused after 30 miniues in as opposed to before that.  That's when Standig kicked in about Heinicke.  But clearly you missed some of that part too because even when Standig referenced Heinicke he led off the point by repeating what Jay said earlier in the podcast that Howell reminded him of Heinicke and then from there Standig opined himself.  

 

You referencing Jay saying you need in todays NFL to have guys with mobility and then hitting Hurts and Lamar was in reference to the point about needing mobility.  He didn't say that Howell reminds him of Hurts.  He referenced the power of mobility is response to a question from Standig.   And Jay suggested you want Howell to run. 

 

 

Yeah, but he was saying that Howell has mobility - unless you call Howell a true dropback QB. I'm not saying He's a Hurts or a Jackson either, but its the mobility element that can save a play that like he said takes a lof of pressure off EB. Its the opposite of Kirk or Alex or Haskins. Its not to the level of an RG3 or a Hurts or a Jackson but you have seen in both games as a pro that its there. 

 

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Warhead36

Warhead36

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43 minutes ago, philibusters said:

 

Payne and Vea are just different.  Vea is the best pure nose tackle in the league and if you have a defense that utilizes that, he is great.   Payne can play the nose reasonably well, but when he takes on duo blocks he is going to get moved a much higher percentage of the time than Vea.  Payne is a good run defender when playing the 3 technique, but as a nose he'll lose some matchups.     As a pass rusher, Payne leaves Vea in the dust.  Vea is actually  decent for a guy his size at generating a pass rusher, but he just doesn't have the quickness Payne does and is much less of an effective pass rusher than Payne.

Yep you're right which makes sense because at the time we were running the 3-4 still and Vea was the better fit.

 

Payne is a monster pass rusher though. Just so damn explosive. I could see an All Pro or two in his future.

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