The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[skinny21]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Did they blitz much?  Looked like a lot of fake blitzes and then they turned back to cover.  But I won't know until I see the stats.  But in real time it felt like a lot of 4 man rushes.

They blitzed a number of times for sure, but I think it was mostly a show blitz, rush 4 kind of deal.

 

On a related note, Charles actually didn’t look too bad to me for most of the game (though the knock on him is consistency, so it’s a problem).  He got absolutely steamrolled one time (Leno did as well on that same play… weird stuff).  

Twice though he passed his man off to Leno, who was already engaged with a rusher (with no other guy replacing the man Charles passed off).  And another time he passed his man off to Gates, but Gates was not at all ready for it.  Those 3 plays were ugly.  Don’t know what he was thinking.

Disclaimer - I may have missed something else as well.

Edited September 11, 2023 by skinny21

[Hooper]

Was at the game -- great seats, great view. Glad I made the trip from LA.

 

I thought EB called the game -- the first half at least -- like he still had Mahomes at quarterback.

 

On one hand, that's good -- shows he believes in Howell.

 

On the other, WTF? Howell is basically a rookie playing behind an average at best o-line. Help him out a little. Felt like EB was trying to make a statement. 

 

The Gibson fumble was the turning point. I think if we score there it's an easy win. 

 

Week 1 is always crazy. Overall, I thought Howell looked the part. 

Edited September 11, 2023 by Hooper

[Thinking Skins]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Did they blitz much?  Looked like a lot of fake blitzes and then they turned back to cover.  But I won't know until I see the stats.  But in real time it felt like a lot of 4 man rushes.

Honestly, I saw Simmons come a lot. I guess he is a DE. I thought he was a LB and they were bringing 5 / bringing 4 and dropping a lineman but I wasn't really focusing on it. 

 

Edit: Sorry, It was Dennis Gardeick. Maybe not a lot, but it happened. 

 

 

Edited September 11, 2023 by Thinking Skins

[DWinzit]

2 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

Honestly, I saw Simmons come a lot. I guess he is a DE. I thought he was a LB and they were bringing 5 / bringing 4 and dropping a lineman but I wasn't really focusing on it. 

Do you by chance mean Zaven Collins? 

[Thinking Skins]

2 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

Do you by chance mean Zaven Collins? 

Sorry I hate names. My wife thinks I have a mental problem because I call people by the wrong names all the time. Yeah Collins. But I corrected it. I was referring to the play by the blitz with the LB where Howell fumbled. It wasn't Collins anyway. It was another guy #45, who beat Wylie. 

[DWinzit]

4 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

Sorry I hate names. My wife thinks I have a mental problem because I call people by the wrong names all the time. Yeah Collins. But I corrected it. I was referring to the play by the blitz with the LB where Howell fumbled. It wasn't Collins anyway. It was another guy #45, who beat Wylie. 

Got it and watch that. Don't be calling her another name when, you know.....

 

They traded Simmons a couple weeks ago. 45 was a virtual no - name Gardeck

[Going Commando]

33 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

Edit: Sorry, It was Dennis Gardeick. Maybe not a lot, but it happened. 

 

That looks like Gibson was supposed to chip before he released. He kind of screwed Wylie there.  Wylie's set doesn't even look that deep, Gibson was right at his shoulder on his release as Gardeck countered back inside.

[Thinking Skins]

Just now, Going Commando said:

 

That looks like Gibson was supposed to chip before he released. He kind of screwed Wylie there.  Wylie's set doesn't even look that deep, Gibson was right at his shoulder on his release as Gardeck countered back inside.

Good on noticing that. Probably got him cursed out. 

[DWinzit]

3 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

That looks like Gibson was supposed to chip before he released. He kind of screwed Wylie there.  Wylie's set doesn't even look that deep, Gibson was right at his shoulder on his release as Gardeck countered back inside.

With no one coming further from the outside though, looks like Wylie should have stuck with him more when Gardeck spun, no?

[Going Commando]

1 minute ago, DWinzit said:

With no one coming further from the outside though, looks like Wylie should have stuck with him more when Gardeck spun, no?

The issue was the lack of space between him and Gibson.  He can't properly redirect back inside as Gardeck spins because Gibson is at his inside hip.

 

I think in that situation Gibson was probably supposed to chip that rusher.  The delay in his release is what suggests that to me.  If you notice his head is turned up field the whole play, I don't think he ever saw Gardeck counter back inside, and had no idea that he was hanging Wylie out to dry.  Just missed a read, and those kinds of screw ups on the details of their protections were where most of our breakdowns in pass pro happened yesterday.  There was another play where a back basically wiped out Saahdiq Charles by falling into the back of him and tripping him, and another pressure that happened where Nick Gates just read the rush wrong and didn't pick up the inside rusher and ended up blocking grass.

 

These are symptoms of an OL and group of backs that are still learning the scheme and how to communicate and block with each other.  They don't have a feel for each other yet and it's going to take a while to come together.  Same for Howell and his receivers.  There are going to be some really encouraging highs mixed in with a lot of mistakes.

 

It's hard to build a good offense.  It takes a ton of work and these guys are still at the beginning of the process.  They deserve some patience.  But on the positive side, our D and ST have a ton of continuity banked and are capable of carrying us in the meantime.

17 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

Good on noticing that. Probably got him cursed out. 

Everyone made mistakes yesterday.  It was a sloppy, rusty game for the O.  But I am confident that we have the leadership and coaching and personalities for everyone to recognize and own their mistakes and put in the work to fix them.  Gibson is a good dude and he'll get better.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

Wasn't Chris Rodriguez getting hype as the best pass blocker among the RB's this pre-season? At a certain point let's just end the Gibson experiment if he also blows at pass blocking.

[skinny21]

28 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

That looks like Gibson was supposed to chip before he released. He kind of screwed Wylie there.  Wylie's set doesn't even look that deep, Gibson was right at his shoulder on his release as Gardeck countered back inside.

Not saying this was Gibson’s “issue” here, but I’ve seen in the past a lot of players will sort of nominally chip (or even seemingly avoid the rusher intentionally), presumably to get in their route quicker in hopes they receive the ball.  Thing is (IMO), putting that extra effort in is more likely to keep drives alive, thereby giving that chipping player more chances at receptions.  Again, not saying that’s what happened, your comment just reminded of that.

9 minutes ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

Wasn't Chris Rodriguez getting hype as the best pass blocker among the RB's this pre-season? At a certain point let's just end the Gibson experiment if he also blows at pass blocking.

To me, Rodriguez looks like our most decisive back, finding the crease and hitting it at pace.  With our oline deficiencies, I wonder if he might be the best fit for those inside runs.  Of course, I get the impression he’s the clear number 3 in terms of receiving chops.

[DWinzit]

14 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

The issue was the lack of space between him and Gibson.  He can't properly redirect back inside as Gardeck spins because Gibson is at his inside hip.

 

I think in that situation Gibson was probably supposed to chip that rusher.  The delay in his release is what suggests that to me.  If you notice his head is turned up field the whole play, I don't think he ever saw Gardeck counter back inside, and had no idea that he was hanging Wylie out to dry.  Just missed a read, and those kinds of screw ups on the details of their protections were where most of our breakdowns in pass pro happened yesterday.  There was another play where a back basically wiped out Saahdiq Charles by falling into the back of him and tripping him, and another pressure that happened where Nick Gates just read the rush wrong and didn't pick up the inside rusher and ended up blocking grass.

 

These are symptoms of an OL and group of backs that are still learning the scheme and how to communicate and block with each other.  They don't have a feel for each other yet and it's going to take a while to come together.  Same for Howell and his receivers.  There are going to be some really encouraging highs mixed in with a lot of mistakes.

 

It's hard to build a good offense.  It takes a ton of work and these guys are still at the beginning of the process.  They deserve some patience.  But on the positive side, our D and ST have a ton of continuity banked and are capable of carrying us in the meantime.

I really appreciate the positive attitude you have expressed through your posts since the game. You have done a better job than I have. 

 

You are correct in driving home the lack of play time the OL (and the other groups) have had to mesh as units...even if the talent isn't great. 

 

As for this play, it sure is tough to be sure who is incorrect on this play. Gibson and Wylie are to close, but only because of the spin move made. Gibson looks to have his eyes downfield like it is just a delayed action to slide out into an opening. If he should have chipped him, shame on him for just not getting just a slight chip even.

 

Wylie does kind of loosely lounge with Gardeck through most of the play almost like he though he had his trusty G next to him for assistance. It is tough to tell, I wish we knew for sure. None of the three players are known as being great at what they do, that's for sure. I hate that we are talking about a no-name rusher instead of a stud the dazzled them with moves, finesse and power.

[Going Commando]

4 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

Not saying this was Gibson’s “issue” here, but I’ve seen in the past a lot of players will sort of nominally chip (or even seemingly avoid the rusher intentionally), presumably to get in their route quicker in hopes they receive the ball.  Thing is (IMO), putting that extra effort in is more likely to keep drives alive, thereby giving that chipping player more chances at receptions.  Again, not saying that’s what happened, your comment just reminded of that.

 

If my back is assigned to chip and he intentionally shied away from contact because he only felt like catching passes, then unless he is an Alvin Kamara type weapon, he'd be riding the pine a lot for me.  Also if I had an Alvin Kamara type back, I wouldn't be having him chip.

 

I highly doubt Gibson would ever intentionally bail on his blocks.  He is tough as nails and he loves contact, and he's not a selfish player.  I think he just didn't see Gardeck there.  He probably clocked Gardeck going outside at the start of the play and never saw the inside counter.  His eyes are upfield watching the two DTs and the inside linebacker until he sees they're picked up and then he decides to run his pattern.

 

That was an "if it can go wrong, it will go wrong" play where at least like three separate miscues all collided into a disastrous outcome.

[Voice_of_Reason]

5 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Did they blitz much?  Looked like a lot of fake blitzes and then they turned back to cover.  But I won't know until I see the stats.  But in real time it felt like a lot of 4 man rushes.

I didn't see a lot of blitzes either.  I saw a lot of "you want to throw it quick, so we're going to drop 7 into passing lanes and force you to go to the second level."

 

They needed to get some intermediate stuff going.  Or run them out of the shell they were in.  Neither of which they did.

 

By not adjusting, they were running quick game concepts into stacked looks, and a quick game concept is only supposed to be blocked for a certain amount of time.  Howell was holding the ball longer than the allotted time.  He needs to learn, if it's quick game, and it's not there, you gotta bail, and bail quickly.  QB, playcaller and OL all have to help each other.  I think they all failed each other yesterday at different times.  

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

It really doesn't help that we had some drops in the shorter stuff. Howell was pushing it and attempting some hero ball after a drop put us behind schedule.

 

The sack fumble for a TD felt like him going into desperate hero ball mode.

[Skinsinparadise]

35 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I didn't see a lot of blitzes either.  I saw a lot of "you want to throw it quick, so we're going to drop 7 into passing lanes and force you to go to the second level."

 

 

Yeah that's how it looked to me too 

[Skinsinparadise]

Judging by Gibson's eyes, got some doubts that he was supposed to chip on the edge his head-eyes are directed elsewhere from the jump but no way to know.

 

Wylie overset to the outside.  Look at how wide he plants his left leg, how is he readjusting from that?

 

 

Edited September 11, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[wit33]

Hoping Howell doesn’t buy into the idea of needing to “throw it away” as he mentioned in his presser. Average starters have mindset to throw it away— guys playing to not lose their jobs (coaches as well). EB and Howell don’t appear okay with just being competent. 

 

Howell on the sack fumble easily would’ve escaped Gardeck to the outside, but another rusher won on the outside forcing him to revert to spinning to the left—quite impressive, he noticed the extra defender coming on the outside.

Give me more of those attempts at greatness!

[Daniel.redskins]

1 hour ago, wit33 said:

Hoping Howell doesn’t buy into the idea of needing to “throw it away” as he mentioned in his presser. Average starters have mindset to throw it away— guys playing to not lose their jobs (coaches as well). EB and Howell don’t appear okay with just being competent. 

 

Howell on the sack fumble easily would’ve escaped Gardeck to the outside, but another rusher won on the outside forcing him to revert to spinning to the left—quite impressive, he noticed the extra defender coming on the outside.

Give me more of those attempts at greatness!

Bingo!  I do not agree with just throwing the ball away.  If your read isn't there, try and scramble.  We've seen enough of check down Cousins and Smith.  Howell is a breath of fresh air and I hope he continues to play with the home run attitude.  

Edited September 12, 2023 by Daniel.redskins

[Thinking Skins]

11 hours ago, Thinking Skins said:

 

5. How many times will the pocket be designed to move and where vs him being a running QB?

I didn't see this much

 

 

I don't know what I was thinking with this response, but I was off. This was the crux of his game. I don't know if by design of moxie, but dude was running from pressure. He had at least 3 scrambles (one that they say was a sack) another that was a scramble for -1 yards that counts as a sack. 

 

Then there's the beautiful passes like the one to BRob for the TD where he moves the pocket and zips it and it was a thing of beauty. 

 

These may not be all the same but they show what we're working with

[kingdaddy]

Trade Brissett to the Jets for a 2nd and 4th!

[tmandoug1]

2 hours ago, kingdaddy said:

Trade Brissett to the Jets for a 2nd and 4th!

Not funny and I totally agree..........send him.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

If they're that desperate then yeah, absolutely. But even if they are the asking price couldn't possibly be that high. They aren't in cap hell next season, so it's not like the roster is do or die.

[tmandoug1]

Nmind, they just beat the Bills with Zach Wilson.