The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[zCommander]

I highly doubt Bruce was smart enough to draft Mahomes if after trading for Kirk. It would have been Trubisky instead. We all know how that worked out for the Bears and afterwards.

 

Edited September 9, 2023 by zCommander

[Skinsinparadise]

31 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

I bet they heard the offer, said no, and then that was the end of it for them.  I still can't believe how badly Kurt was mishandled by Bruce.  How deeply in denial do you have to be to refuse to sign your QB to an extension, but also do absolutely nothing to prepare for him to leave?  It was a surreal, slow moving disaster to watch play out, and it was crushing to watch as a powerless fan.

 

Any one of us on here could have done better than Bruce.  But I am at peace with how it all played out in the end, because I would have taken that #2 overall offer and spent it on DeShaun Watson.  And I would have looked pretty smart for doing it at first.  And then I would have inadvertently thrown thrown a pipeline of gasoline on the fire that could have burnt this franchise to the ground.  That 2017 draft was a minefield, but to Sam Monson's point: nobody would have drafted Patrick Mahomes #2 overall in April 2017.  People thought the Chiefs were crazy for moving up to 10 and reaching on him there.

 

Bruce was a moron.  And Dan was even worse.  They put emotion and pettiness over winning.

 

I am at peace with it too because I think it helped the demise of this organization which led to Dan's ouster.  Dead last in QBR after Kirk left.    Bruce became an even bigger punchline than Cerrato over time.  The fan attendance in real numbers started to bleed in 2018 until ending up dead last last year.  Dan became too toxic to get any financial help with a stadium.  The declining sales seem to bleed into Dan's behavior with his minority partners.  On and on.

 

Am not saying that transaction alone led to the wave events.  But it certainly was on that wave.

 

As for Mahomes, I read a long article about how the Chiefs were hot for him for years before the draft and why.  But kept it quiet.  The Eagles article about them being hot for Hurts before that draft rang similar except they fell for Hurts his last season whereas the Chiefs liked Mahomes according to that article for a couple of years pre-draft.

 

To your point, I do think some teams have the imagination to fall for a player that's not per se a consensus universally loved player.   It clearly happens.  But I don't see this team being one of those especially at QB back then.  

Edited September 9, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

35 minutes ago, zCommander said:

I highly doubt Bruce was smart enough to draft Mahomes if after trading for Kirk. It would have been Trubisky instead. We all know how that worked out for the Bears and afterwards.

 

 

Dan was the QB "guru" in house or so he fancied himself.   So yeah it would be whatever player he dug.  I still find it amusing that Keim said Dan would tell anyone who would listen in that building leading to that draft that Haskins is the best player in college-that upcoming draft.

 

I loved the story about how Dan fell in love with Brady Quinn and it took his scouts weeks to talk him out of it.    

 

Dan I read was also the guy behind Ramsey.  Wanted McNabb.  Jeff George.

 

He had the reverse midas touch at QB.  So agree it would probably have been Trubisky. 

Edited September 9, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

29 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Dan was the QB "guru" in house or so he fancied himself.   So yeah it would be whatever player he dug.  I still find it amusing that Keim said Dan would tell anyone who would listen in that building leading to that draft that Haskins is the best player in college-that upcoming draft.

 

I loved the story about how Dan fell in love with Brady Quinn and it took his scouts weeks to talk him out of it.    

 

Dan I read was also the guy behind Ramsey.  Wanted McNabb.  Jeff George.

 

He had the reverse midas touch at QB.  So agree it would probably have been Trubisky. 

 

Dan wanted Ramsey? Hmm, how was the decision making process done for Jason Campbell?

 

 

 

--------------------------

Off topic a bit but Howell was drafted after him...

 

Matt Corral experiment in New England is over already. I wonder if his career is even going to last 2 years in the league. 1 on a roster and 1 on a practice squad. That's a pretty big bust for a 3rd rounder.

Edited September 9, 2023 by Always A Commander Never A Captain

[zCommander]

25 minutes ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

Matt Corral experiment in New England is over already. I wonder if his career is even going to last 2 years in the league. 1 on a roster and 1 on a practice squad. That's a pretty big bust for a 3rd rounder.

 

Pretty much true so far.

 

Speaking of NE...

 

I don't even want think if New England had taken Howell instead of Zappe. 

[Skinsinparadise]

41 minutes ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

 

Dan wanted Ramsey? Hmm, how was the decision making process done for Jason Campbell?

 

 

 

--------------------------

Off topic a bit but Howell was drafted after him...

 

 

I can't put Campbell on Dan.  Gibbs supposedly fell in love with him when he was scouting Carlos Rodgers at the same school.

[Thinking Skins]

On 9/7/2023 at 12:56 PM, formerly4skins said:

I'm a huge fan of Kurt Warner's analysis of QB play and always watch his breakdowns on YouTube. He just put out an analysis of Howell's preseason...and, it's pretty exciting to hear how high he is on him.

 

"He's tough, he sees it, he understands it, and he can make every throw, and that's exactly what I've seen"

 

 

I enjoyed this. I also listened to the QB School video. 

 

First QB school

There were some good takeaways. 

- needs to focus on getting the ball quicker to the receiver even when he's not blitzed. 

 - free runner and hot route, weren't a funky take? Was he looking for perfection?

 - the offence does a nice job of moving the launch point to alleviate pass protection and provide multiple options

 

And Kurt said

He's good getting through reads, feet and eyes came together

Throwing away from defender

he's getting chunk throws

and he missed a deep shot on a double safety look

recognized man and got the ball to the back

[Skinsinparadise]

looks like Corral might be back in Carolina.

 

If he busts, its not that much of a bust.  If I recall the success rate of a third round QB is pretty awful.  Heck its not hot for a 2nd rounder either.   

 

 

 

[Thinking Skins]

My Howell questions for week 1 and pretty much this season

 

Will he stay healthy?

Will he let the game come to him?

How balanced will the offence be?

How many drops will the offence have?

How many times will the pocket be designed to move and where vs him being a running QB?

How aggressive will AZs HC be with blitzes since Howell struggled on preseason?

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Listening to Jay on Sheehan.  His take is young QBs, expect ups and downs.

 

He thinks they win 7-8 games this year and would be surprised if they win more.  If I understood him, he thinks they end up last in the division.

 

He loves this defense though.

Edited September 9, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[bh32]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Listening to Jay on Sheehan.  His take is young QBs, expect ups and downs.

 

He thinks they win 7-8 games this year and would be surprised if they win more.  If I understood him, he thinks they end up last in the division.

 

He loves this defense though.

Well if that happens Ron and company can say goodbye to coaching here next year..

[Skinsinparadise]

1 minute ago, bh32 said:

Well if that happens Ron and company can say goodbye to coaching here next year..

 

Yeah I am expecting this season to be Ron's swan song season.  Will see.

 

I do think they will romp though tomorrow.  So does Jay.  The Cards on paper at least look to be an awful team. 

Edited September 9, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

Corral apparently went AWOL on the Patriots so they cut him.

 

Reminds me of the flip side with QB's we've had who have remained classy after rough spots. RG3, Wentz, and (redacted) come to mind. McNabb wasn't (I think) but I can't quite remember.

[zCommander]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Listening to Jay on Sheehan.  His take is young QBs, expect ups and downs.

 

He thinks they win 7-8 games this year and would be surprised if they win more.  If I understood him, he thinks they end up last in the division.

 

He loves this defense though.

 

What baffles me is that if he thinks our D is really good but will only win 7 or 8 games. We did that with no QB last year. Sure easy schedule and all but we have a better QB to go with a slightly harder schedule. I like to think the D can win 6 games for the O and the O should be able to win at least 4 games on their own with no help from the D. That puts the total to 10 games out of 17. Unlike Jay, I would be surprised if they don't win at least 10 games. 

[HigSkin]

Super hard with all these predictors coming out with season records because opposing views can be true at once.  We could be a well coached team moving in the right direction but have a statistically worse season based on schedule.  However, our division has to play a similar schedule.  We just don't know how Howell and EB will perform in all that.  They look competent.

 

I know hope is not a strategy but IMO there's a vibe with this team not measured by statistics.  Hard to measure enthusiam, heart, desire, perhaps a home field advantage, etc. in to statistics.

 

We'll see

[FootballZombie]

My whole prediction angle for this year is the overall team will be better, but the record ends up about the same.

 

A great division last year looks to have gotten better.

Sched last year was easy so its simple probability that this years will be harder, regardless of how the schedule looks... which appears to be harder. 

Growing pains of a young QB, a new "full" position OC

 

I fully believe the team will most likely be better than last year, be improving and moving in the right direction but will still probably be 4th in the East. Its hard to succeed when all three teams are solid playoff expectants at minimum.

[redskinss]

13 hours ago, zCommander said:

I highly doubt Bruce was smart enough to draft Mahomes if after trading for Kirk. It would have been Trubisky instead. We all know how that worked out for the Bears and afterwards.

 

Or they drafted mahomes and the butterfly effect is that Snyder never sells the team.

I'll take josh harris and Sam howell over patrick mahomes and Dan snyder.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

14 minutes ago, redskinss said:

Or they drafted mahomes and the butterfly effect is that Snyder never sells the team.

I'll take josh harris and Sam howell over patrick mahomes and Dan snyder.

 

Elite QB's really need help in development from organizations/coaching/etc. No way would Snyder get the same Mahomes.

[zCommander]

23 minutes ago, redskinss said:

Or they drafted mahomes and the butterfly effect is that Snyder never sells the team.

I'll take josh harris and Sam howell over patrick mahomes and Dan snyder.

 

Don't think any QB or success of the team would have stopped the misconduct and sexual harassments in a workplace and the charges brought against him. He had made too many enemies and dug his own grave and even Ron, the culture guy, couldn't save his butt either. 

[MartinC]

14 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Listening to Jay on Sheehan.  His take is young QBs, expect ups and downs.

 

He thinks they win 7-8 games this year and would be surprised if they win more.  If I understood him, he thinks they end up last in the division.

 

He loves this defense though.

7-8 wins is what most of us think going into the season. It’s a reasonable take. Tougher schedule on paper and a tough division - we could be much better and stand still in terms of won/loss. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 minute ago, MartinC said:

7-8 wins is what most of us think going into the season. It’s a reasonable take. Tougher schedule on paper and a tough division - we could be much better and stand still in terms of won/loss. 

I don't think so. The schedule is going to be what the schedule is.  But I think if we're better the record has to reflect that.  

 

You are what your record says you are.

 

There are generally about 3-4 teams at the top, 3-4 teams at the bottom, and everybody else is lumped in the middle somewhere.  

 

Last year, we actually managed to beat one of the 3-4 teams at the top.

 

It's the group in the middle.  You have to do well against teams that are "about as good as you are."  If you do, you end up with 9-10 wins.  If you don't, you end up with 7-8 wins.  It's a 2-3 game swing.  It's not that much.  

 

Nothing between 7 and 10 wins would surprise me, and honestly, I think each outcome is as likely as the next at this point in the season.  I'm guessing 10.  Which is a whopping 1.5 games better than last year.  

 

We'll know more in a month where in that middle group of everybody where we stand. 

 

But, we better damn well win today, or else the season could go off the rails really, really fast.  

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

9 hours ago, zCommander said:

 

Don't think any QB or success of the team would have stopped the misconduct and sexual harassments in a workplace and the charges brought against him. He had made too many enemies and dug his own grave and even Ron, the culture guy, couldn't save his butt either. 

 

Owners only moved against him when it was revealed he hid money from them.

[MartinC]

11 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

  

 

We'll know more in a month where in that middle group of everybody where we stand. 

 

But, we better damn well win today, or else the season could go off the rails really, really fast.  

Yeah we’ve batted this around all off season - there are really way too many variables that impact record. Not least injuries, especially at QB. 
 

We will absolutely know more after the first four games. 

[zCommander]

22 minutes ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

 

Owners only moved against him when it was revealed he hid money from them.

 

A thief always trips over themselves when trying to cover their own track.  

[Going Commando]

38 minutes ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

 

Owners only moved against him when it was revealed he hid money from them.

 

I think they knew about that for a while.  The ball didn't really start rolling until that Seth Wickersham story broke on ESPN, where it became clear he was threatening and blackmailing the owners and Al Michaels told him to sell the team on air during Thursday Night Football.