The Guardian: Joe Biden's gender discrimination order offers hope for young trans athletes - Discussion Thread

[Llevron]

On 3/28/2022 at 2:26 PM, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

It's all culture wars.  The reason lefties 'don't care' about this and point to things like her not dominating every race as a means to defend her right to swim with females is because that's the position their team has taken.  Nobody wants to be associated with the right, for good reason, and acknowledging that they might be right for the wrong reasons on this particular issue is in bad form.

 

I just feel like there is a world that exists between right wing 'she's a man' memes that shame the trans community and the left's constant obsession with catering to everyone not under the GOP tent, even if it doesn't make logical sense.

 

This is why politics is wack. It makes people take stupid ass positions they dont even believe in. 

28 minutes ago, Cooked Crack said:

 

 

As if I needed to illustrate why I cannot be confused with agreeing with the right on this. Its almost more important to be wrong on the issue and be against these ass clowns 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

8 minutes ago, Llevron said:

This is why politics is wack. It makes people take stupid ass positions they dont even believe in. 

I know this is both-sides-ism, but it truly is both sides.  My social media feed is made of predominantly folks that are super left or right, no in-between, that will do gold medal mental gymnastics to defend their side on every issue, but then at the same time pretend they aren't doing that.  Here I am, just like - all you folks are crazy and I don't fit in with anyone - but really I do, it's all the folks who are quiet and don't feel the need to make their hot takes public.

[TradeTheBeal!]

Wacked-out Maga fake Christians who project all their daddy/daughter issues on to trans and gay kids and then advocate violence and bigotry against those trans and gay kids instead of simply going to much-needed therapy?  
 

Who wouldn’t want to be associated with such wonderful people?!?

[TD_washingtonredskins]

45 minutes ago, TradeTheBeal! said:

Wacked-out Maga fake Christians who project all their daddy/daughter issues on to trans and gay kids and then advocate violence and bigotry against those trans and gay kids instead of simply going to much-needed therapy?  
 

Who wouldn’t want to be associated with such wonderful people?!?

 

I don't think that's fair. 

 

I'm not what you just described, but I agree with some of their opinions on the recent LGBTQ movement. My wife and I were talking the other day...I'm actually confused why LGB is lumped in with T, to be honest. One group is a sexual preference while the other is a whole different idea entirely. And, putting them in the same category often makes it so that when someone like me says "I don't want biological males changing with my daughter in the locker room" I'm, by association, attacking the gay community. It's a little unfair. 

[mojo]

On 3/28/2022 at 2:26 PM, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 

I just feel like there is a world that exists between right wing 'she's a man' memes that shame the trans community and the left's constant obsession with catering to everyone not under the GOP tent, even if it doesn't make logical sense.

I think for most reasonable people this issue falls under the umbrella of common sense.  But common sense is in short supply these days.

[Momma There Goes That Man]

 

[LadySkinsFan]

1 hour ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

I don't think that's fair. 

 

I'm not what you just described, but I agree with some of their opinions on the recent LGBTQ movement. My wife and I were talking the other day...I'm actually confused why LGB is lumped in with T, to be honest. One group is a sexual preference while the other is a whole different idea entirely. And, putting them in the same category often makes it so that when someone like me says "I don't want biological males changing with my daughter in the locker room" I'm, by association, attacking the gay community. It's a little unfair. 

 

This is exactly why some of us don't want the T involved in with those of us with different sexual orientation from heterosexual. Transsexual used to be the definition, now it's transgender which has any number of identities. 

 

Here's also a fact that doesn't get enough media, most men who identify as women don't have the reassignment surgery (I don't know the exact percentage, I read somewhere around 80%). In other words, they still have their penis which if Lesbians don't have sex with them the Lesbian is transphobic. Excuse me, the whole idea of Lesbianism is sex and relationships with women not with someone with a penis which defeats the whole purpose. 

 

Edited to add:  You should read the names these people call their penises to scam Lesbians into having sex with them. All of their words to try to convince Lesbians sound like everything we always hear from men for the same thing. It gets old real quick.

Edited March 31, 2022 by LadySkinsFan

[TD_washingtonredskins]

1 hour ago, LadySkinsFan said:

 

This is exactly why some of us don't want the T involved in with those of us with different sexual orientation from heterosexual. Transsexual used to be the definition, now it's transgender which has any number of identities. 

 

Here's also a fact that doesn't get enough media, most men who identify as women don't have the reassignment surgery (I don't know the exact percentage, I read somewhere around 80%). In other words, they still have their penis which if Lesbians don't have sex with them the Lesbian is transphobic. Excuse me, the whole idea of Lesbianism is sex and relationships with women not with someone with a penis which defeats the whole purpose. 

Right, it's just spun very far out of control and society is being asked to accept and legislate to a new deviancy from the norm seemingly every week. I don't have any issue with the acceptance part, because I think we should practice and preach compassion and open-mindedness. Especially in areas of behavior that have no bearing on our own lives (i.e., what other people wear, who other people sleep with, how other people identify, etc.). 

 

But, it's the "legislate to" part of what I wrote above that I do believe is trickier. When we ask society to participate in other peoples' behaviors then there are indirect or direct impacts that matter. Anyway, I can understand why your run-of-the-mill lesbian or gay dude might be completely tolerant of a transgender, but also want to distance themselves from being grouped into that cause. 

[ClaytoAli]

How many transgender people do you think live in the United States? The people who took this poll estimated 21 percent of our nation's population is transgender. Twenty-one percent, a quarter of the country, is trans. That's what people think. Now are these news stories started to make sense? In reality, the number is 1 percent, 1 percent is trans. How about gay people? We spend a lot of time talking about sexual orientation. With all that attention, surely that number must be high. All Americans estimated that 30 percent of their fellow citizens are gay. Wrong again, the real number is 3 percent. Now, is this starting to add up? The Democrats don't want you to know the real numbers because it would tank their entire agenda. They want you to see victims around every corner and elect more Democrats to right the ship. Millions of people who look differently with different lifestyles, who eat differently and who believe radically different things. It's just not true. This country is not New York City. It is the United States of America.

 

https://www.foxnews.com/media/jesse-watters-americans-perception-reality-not-aligned-with-truth

[mojo]

[Cooked Crack]

 

Too bad he's going to lose

[tshile]

48 minutes ago, ClaytoAli said:

How many transgender people do you think live in the United States? The people who took this poll estimated 21 percent of our nation's population is transgender. Twenty-one percent, a quarter of the country, is trans. That's what people think. Now are these news stories started to make sense? In reality, the number is 1 percent, 1 percent is trans. How about gay people? We spend a lot of time talking about sexual orientation. With all that attention, surely that number must be high. All Americans estimated that 30 percent of their fellow citizens are gay. Wrong again, the real number is 3 percent. Now, is this starting to add up? The Democrats don't want you to know the real numbers because it would tank their entire agenda. They want you to see victims around every corner and elect more Democrats to right the ship. Millions of people who look differently with different lifestyles, who eat differently and who believe radically different things. It's just not true. This country is not New York City. It is the United States of America.

 

https://www.foxnews.com/media/jesse-watters-americans-perception-reality-not-aligned-with-truth

 

 

That would be because all the shows and movies make sure to include these types of people in disproportionate ways. If someone is in a 1-3% category, you would hardly see them, and they certainly would rarely be a main character. Yet most stuff I watch features a main character (as well as a number of supporting characters) that fall into these groups. 
 

which I get it. On the one hand trying to be trendy, even liberal since there’s appeal there. Also, it’s hard to get mainstream acceptance of something if people aren’t exposed to it. And tv and movies are a way to expose people. 
 

but the “downside” (not sure that’s the right word, not sure what the right word is) is that it then distorts things like what % of people fit into these categories. When it becomes common to see them in shows, it feels like it’s more prevalent. 
 

A mature adult that pays attention to the world should be expected to understand this, and accept it. 
 

there’s always an over correction on social issues, at least by some segment of the population. 
 

(although a poll saying average people think 21% of the population is trans is super suspect to me. That seems… super high. 30% gay, while high, doesn’t seem nearly as suspect. And of course the source of this is Jesse waters whose whole shtick is to blow things out of context. His whole start on foxnews was doing highly edited Street interviews in the most clownish of ways)

Edited March 31, 2022 by tshile

[Llevron]

23 minutes ago, tshile said:

 

which I get it. On the one hand trying to be trendy, even liberal since there’s appeal there. Also, it’s hard to get mainstream acceptance of something if people aren’t exposed to it. And tv and movies are a way to expose people. 

 

I don't even think its that deep. You want more of a group (any, pick one) to watch your show? Have representation. 

 

This is just a guess on my part I obviously have no clue for sure. But my bet would almost always be on greed, not someone wanting inclusivity. Even if someone producing the show believes in inclusivity...the person paying for it is only doing it for the money. 

[tshile]

Well. That means they’re dramatically changing the makeup of shows to cater to <1% and ~3% of the population. 
 

and if I had to guess, whatever fraction of those % they’re getting, they’re losing multiple times that in people that decide they won’t watch a show with “that” in it. 
 

i think in terms of the rise of shows with either more main characters that are black or even female, or shows that predominantly revolve around groups of black or female people, what you’re saying makes sense. 
 

I very much think the Hollywood scene likes to at least pretend/think they’re pushing the envelope of social issues, which would be on the more liberal side of things. 
 

it probably helps that the %’s of some of these groups are likely higher inside Hollywood than the general population. Though I say that as a common thought that I think a lot of people have - I don’t know if it’s actually true. 

[PeterMP]

1 hour ago, ClaytoAli said:

How many transgender people do you think live in the United States? The people who took this poll estimated 21 percent of our nation's population is transgender. Twenty-one percent, a quarter of the country, is trans. That's what people think. Now are these news stories started to make sense? In reality, the number is 1 percent, 1 percent is trans. How about gay people? We spend a lot of time talking about sexual orientation. With all that attention, surely that number must be high. All Americans estimated that 30 percent of their fellow citizens are gay. Wrong again, the real number is 3 percent. Now, is this starting to add up? The Democrats don't want you to know the real numbers because it would tank their entire agenda. They want you to see victims around every corner and elect more Democrats to right the ship. Millions of people who look differently with different lifestyles, who eat differently and who believe radically different things. It's just not true. This country is not New York City. It is the United States of America.

 

https://www.foxnews.com/media/jesse-watters-americans-perception-reality-not-aligned-with-truth

 

 

I wonder how much this even happens with other minorities.  I've seen this recently when talking to my wife about reasonable percent of African Americans at a college.  She was talking about how bad some college's numbers were for African Americans that I thought were pretty good.  Turns out she pretty drastically over estimated (30% vs. reality about 13%) how much of the US population that is African American.

 

I wonder how much talk of different groups being under represented in X, Y, and Z has resulted in people not understanding what a real representation would be based on the actual US population.

[China]

6 minutes ago, PeterMP said:

 

I wonder how much this even happens with other minorities.  I've seen this recently when talking to my wife about reasonable percent of African Americans at a college.  She was talking about how bad some college's numbers were for African Americans that I thought were pretty good.  Turns out she pretty drastically over estimated (30% vs. reality about 13%) how much of the US population that is African American.

 

I wonder how much talk of different groups being under represented in X, Y, and Z has resulted in people not understanding what a real representation would be based on the actual US population.

 

I posted the original poll in the Random Politics thread.  May give you the answers you're looking for:

 

 

[tshile]

By the way - I would generally consider this a good thing. 
 

if thinking someone is a bigger part of society than they are, is related to seeing them more often than the real %’s indicate you should, and based on everything I’ve read tolerance and respect (for these issues) is related to seeing it or being around it, then this is a good thing. 
 

because it means people are more accepting of this thing and think it’s more mainstream than it is

 

like anal sex 

[NoCalMike]

I don't think this is an accident. The way these issues are covered by the hostile media outlets you'd think the % is a lot higher.  It is all part of the "they are going to turn your kids into...." POV they are trying to use to scare people. They have to make it seem like it's in "infiltration" 

 

It's the same reason why Tucker Carlson leads every single immigration story with "by the year 20whatever, whites will no longer be the majority" even when the particular story has little to nothing to do with immigration rates or numbers.  It is purposely dog-whistling to great replacement theory stuff because he doesn't want to just come out and make that argument on face value.

Edited March 31, 2022 by NoCalMike

[ClaytoAli]

3 hours ago, PeterMP said:

 

I wonder how much this even happens with other minorities.  I've seen this recently when talking to my wife about reasonable percent of African Americans at a college.  She was talking about how bad some college's numbers were for African Americans that I thought were pretty good.  Turns out she pretty drastically over estimated (30% vs. reality about 13%) how much of the US population that is African American.

 

I wonder how much talk of different groups being under represented in X, Y, and Z has resulted in people not understanding what a real representation would be based on the actual US population.

The drop from 14% to 13% is well known in the African American community, unlike before the 1900s when the same people made up roughly 25%.

 

Although, the influence of African Americans is and has been very dominant towards the cultural fabric of America.

Edited March 31, 2022 by ClaytoAli

[mojo]

6 hours ago, NoCalMike said:

I don't think this is an accident. The way these issues are covered by the hostile media outlets you'd think the % is a lot higher.  It is all part of the "they are going to turn your kids into...." POV they are trying to use to scare people. They have to make it seem like it's in "infiltration" 

 

It's the same reason why Tucker Carlson leads every single immigration story with "by the year 20whatever, whites will no longer be the majority" even when the particular story has little to nothing to do with immigration rates or numbers.  It is purposely dog-whistling to great replacement theory stuff because he doesn't want to just come out and make that argument on face value.

I’m not a Fox News fan but blaming it for the propagating of the Trans issue is ridiculous. Today during Biden’s Trans celebration press conference he announced that gender identification is no longer required for passports as well as different rules for TSA screenings for Trans people (whatever the hell that means). And this is 1% of the population.

[The Evil Genius]

 

[Jabbyrwock]

2 minutes ago, mojo said:

different rules for TSA screenings for Trans people (whatever the hell that means).

 

Might have something to do with the pat down search when areas of concern pop up in the scanner.  The always have men do the pat down for men and women for women...so possibly an update to that.  Just speculating.

[mojo]

1 minute ago, Jabbyrwock said:

 

Might have something to do with the pat down search when areas of concern pop up in the scanner.  The always have men do the pat down for men and women for women...so possibly an update to that.  Just speculating.

But where are are they going to find a them/they TSA agent for the them/theys? Or will it be female TSA agent being forced to pat down a “Woman” that still has male parts?  I guess the TSA agents rights aren’t of interest.

[Jabbyrwock]

1 minute ago, mojo said:

But where are are they going to find a them/they TSA agent for the them/theys? Or will it be female TSA agent being forced to pat down a “Woman” that still has male parts?  I guess the TSA agents rights aren’t of interest.

Search me.

 

 

...ba dum ching!

[Momma There Goes That Man]

So what is the percentage of or number of people existing before we are allowed to care? Since apparently small percentages of the population shouldn’t seek equality or have legislation addressing their marginalization in society and don’t deserve the same treatment as more highly represented demographics