Heinicke Hive: The LEGEND of Taylor Heinicke Thread

[Koolblue13]

10 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

That's how I see it as well. I think  if we shore up on our weaknesses and get improvements from our young players going from year 1 to 2 or 2 to 3(or even 3 to 4), and have Heinecke start, we could win 10 ish games and get a more legit sample size.

 

Perfect bridge QB at worst and maybe he does end up turning into Romo 2.0 and we have our guy for the next 5+ years on a reasonable deal to give us a shot at a Lombardi.

Exactly. Maybe we draft Lance or Jones or one of the later guys and they turn out well and it's a Brees vs Rivers situation or something. No idea.

 

Maybe Heinicke and Allen prove to be injury prone and not the answer, but the rookie is protected by quality depth and having those guys keeps us competitive, because we've build a real team around the position.

 

It's not like Washington football is really know for revolving around great QBs spending long illustrious careers with us.

[Bacon]

I'll make a comparison.

 

I've been a big Gardner Minshew supporter since he got into the league. That guy is fearless and he can play. I think he absolutely deserves a shot somewhere in this league for his moxie, leadership and playmaking ability. I've seen people call him Brett Favre without the arm strength. But he may never get consistent opportunities because he lacks the physical tools to win a QB competition against high level prospects. 

 

Heinecke looked like Minshew at his best, but more physically gifted. They're the same size, but his legs are much better and his arm is a little stronger. He will never be Josh Allen because he lacks size and strength. It's a problem as far as durability goes. But if we can give him a clean pocket, he can be effective. And he's got the on-field moxie necessary to unite a locker room. 

Edited January 10, 2021 by Bacon

[bakedtater1]

45 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Almost looks like a little bit of Brett Favre out there

[wit33]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I get the short sample concern.  That's legit.  I also get durability concerns.  

 

But if the dude played 16 games like he has in the 1.25 games he has thus far. I'd say he absolutely is the answer.   He at the peak of his powers looks better than Kyle Allen IMO.  Last night, especially considering context, that IMO was better than any performance from our QBs this season.  Kyle Allen has sneaky mobility.  Heinicke has real mobility.    Heinicke according to his coach runs a 4.6 and had freakish agility numbers.   We didn't see Allen look like Spiderman escaping pressure.  Allen is more of a hey there is an open running lane let me go grab 5 yards kind of mobility.  Heinicke has some Russell Wilson/Tony Romo escapability in the pocket that we haven't really seen from any QB here that I can think of.  RG3 was crazy fast but not elusive.

 

Short sample? Duability concerns? Sure.  But he certainly IMO looked better than Kyle Allen.  Kyle Allen wasn't some national talking point after a performance.  Heinicke is quite the celebrity from last night's performance.  Some of that was about being in the spotlight.  But some of that was he had some awe struck plays.  And nope we didn't see that IMO from Kyle Allen.   Allen seems to have his own durability issues.  I don't dislike Allen, I'd bring him back.  Just saying purely based on the short sample we saw, Kyle Allen doesn't match Taylor especially in the context of mobility. 

 

https://thevikingage.com/2021/01/09/former-vikings-qb-taylor-heinicke-playoffs-washington/

 

At one time, Minnesota Vikings fans were enamored with the potential of Taylor Heinicke. The highly athletic quarterback was a preseason rock star for the purple and gold that has bounced around the league since leaving the Land of 10,000 Lakes.

Now with the Washington Football Team, Taylor Heinicke got his number called to start on Super Wild Card Weekend against the Tampa Bay Buccaneers when Alex Smith was unable to take the field on Saturday Night.

Expectations were low for this quarterback that few people outside of Vikings fans were familiar with. However, with his performance against Tampa Bay, he may have worked himself into a nine contract and more opportunities going forward.

Of course, Heinicke was signed by the Minnesota Vikings as an undrafted free agent following the 2015 NFL Draft. He stuck with the team until he was waived with an injury settlement in 2017. Since then, he bounced around the league, spending time with the Patriots, Texans, Panthers, and the XFL’s St. Louis Battlehawks before finally landing in Washington.

Love your comparisons to Romo and Wilson and agree that his mobility looks damn near elite. Interesting that his agility numbers were off the charts as well, that certainly showed, his ability to capture the edge and accelerate at times popped. A different level of runner than Allen from a running skill standpoint, IMO. 
 

Interesting. Where do you fall with the QB situation as it stands today?
 

1 hour ago, Renegade7 said:

Both Taylor and Kyle are psychos that can get themselves killed, concerns me and love it.

 

Treat them like the Ravens system lol I agree, no way you can rely on those guys remaining healthy for a season. Though, being a starter in Taylor’s case may switch his mindset in how he approaches games. I mean, he was fighting for his football life last night and was willing to go to any length physically to ball out. I imagine that wouldn’t be his approach game 1 next season after being anointed the starter. 

[86 Snyder]

I've been all about drafting a QB in the 1st, but I'm officially off that.  Just run it back with this group next year but elevate Heinicke to QB1.  Smith can retire or be backup and Allen can be backup when Smith inevitably gets injured.

[CjSuAvE22]

People ripping Heinicke for being a trump supporter....im over all this the guy balled out for us yesterday....what does his politics have anything to do with it

[skinzplay]

A full offseason of training and I think that helps tremendously with the few shortcomings we might identify in Heinicke's profile. Coach Wilder (ODU) was trying to tell anybody who would listen that dude was legit and was gonna ball out. Just needed a stage to show it. Both Norv and Scott were in Minnesota when the Vikes signed him in 2015. He was a known commodity to the coaches even before Carolina. @KDawg's post above is absolutely spot on, and explains a helluva lot about how kids like this slip through the cracks. He wasn't gonna unseat Teddy Bridgewater in 2015 and wasn't gonna unseat Cam in Carolina. I think given his football smarts - which I think are off the damn charts - and the tutelage of Zampese, this guy can only get better. I'm excited, especially at the prospect of not having to mortgage anything to sign an overhyped (but unneeded) free agent QB in the offseason who'll adversely affect our ability to continue building this team the right way.

[El Mexican]

Contrary to practically every other offseason since Snyder bought the team, I'm actually excited to see the team develop and get better.

 

The D is just a few key players away from dominance. Finally, we have someone at QB who can lead the team for at least 5 years without obvious health or performance concers. Our O-line must develop some kind of stability with the running game or we'll never play deep in the playoffs.

 

This is the most important offseason in a while. Rivera has to keep the ship in a straight line.

 

Edited January 10, 2021 by El Mexican

[Skinsinparadise]

2 minutes ago, wit33 said:

Love your comparisons to Romo and Wilson and agree that his mobility looks damn near elite. Interesting that his agility numbers were off the charts as well, that certainly showed, his ability to capture the edge and accelerate at times popped. A different level of runner than Allen from a running skill standpoint, IMO. 
 

Interesting. Where do you fall with the QB situation as it stands today?
 

 

 

QB is really tough, i still am somewhat Zen on it.  I was listening just now to Finlay's podcast and he said talking to team sources they do have concerns about Heinicke's durability moving forward.   I am not concerned as some about the short sample.  That was a high stakes game against a top defense and he didn't have much help.   I am concerned about his frame and history as to durability.  But I'd roll the dice on him as to ability. 

 

I am one of the bigger Zach Wilson fans on this board and much of that is because of his elusive and sometimes jaw dropping ability to navigate pressure.  Taylor is just as good as Zach on that front.  Same style. Never say die style -- moxie.   He's not a poor man's Zach on that front but his peer.    I do think Zach has the stronger arm and is a bigger dude (though Zach isn't that big either) but we aren't getting Zach in all likelihood.  But in short, I love players who play like this.  So I am an easy mark.     

 

To me it depends on opportunity and price moving forward.  At a minimum I am more relaxed and not as nervous about the spot.    i haven't been a fan of theoritical arguments about the QB spot made by some because I don't see any model perfectly fitting as a solution.  Because context changes from player to player and situation to situation.  For example, if its a veteran then who?  At what price?  We all agree going young and cheaper is the best route -- but its not like it all fits neatly around that theory.  We are picking 19 so what QB falls there?  And do you like that QB?  It's to me not a one size fits all theoritical answer. 

 

You've been talking specifics so we are on the same page on that front.   So for the moment, has it changed my thinking?  it has some.  I do love Stafford more than most on the board.  But now I'd be less inclined to go crazy as for compensation.  I get your liking of Cam and if he was the same guy he was in Carolina I'd be with you but I have my doubts.  Tyrod Taylor becomes a little more appealing to me now.   If we got 2 QBs with mobility, one goes down, then the other goes in?  Sort of like the Ravens.  And I get neither is Lamar Jackson.  But Taylor has some serious wheels.  He's a 500 plus yards on the ground QB.  Some like Brissett but Brissett isn't as mobile as Taylor.  And before someone jumps on me, its not that I am saying that he's some stud or the Qb of the future.  But my point is if we want to flesh out if Heinicke is the guy then Taylor to me fits as both reasonable competition and a good backup.  

 

But if something really appealing pops up, I am open minded.  So staying Zen on the spot.    Arians is no dummy when it comes to the QB spot and again I think he was perfectly honest about stopping a mobile QB.  Think about our own vaunted defense -- we still seem to struggle versus mobile guys.

 

 

 

 

 

[NickyJ]

What changes for me is that I'm not so interested in reaching for someone in FA or in the draft. If someone the team likes falls to them in any round, draft him and sit him. If he balls out, we got Heinicke for cheap and a good dude in the draft. If the rookie sucks, flip him to another team for a cheap project. Unless we get a true bargain on an FA, that's too much money for someone that we'd want to be a bridge QB anyway, because I don't see Stafford or Derek Carr or anyone else being a long-term answer.

 

I don't really think Heinicke or Kyle Allen are the long term answers either, but give them a shot and work on the rest of the team in the meantime.

[Tarpon75]

36 minutes ago, CjSuAvE22 said:

People ripping Heinicke for being a trump supporter....im over all this the guy balled out for us yesterday....what does his politics have anything to do with it

Wow I didn’t know he was a Trump supporter. Just glad he doesn’t support Biden.

Edited January 10, 2021 by Tarpon75

[Dark Acre]

Looked to me like Heineken was Captain Check Up not Captain Check Down.  Lotta times he could've thrown a screen or to a guy in the flat but he aired it out and went for a guy 15-30 yards downfield.  (And then the drops.  Heineken put it *exactly* where no one else could get it and our guys have to hang on.)  The last time I felt like *my* team had a QB I was excited about, ok RGIII, before him, Rypien after the opener in '91.  Yeah, last friggin' millennium.  Dude did not look like some rook who gets lucky when the opposing D drops a deuce on the bed.  It's his job to lose (after being signed). 

 

You know who he reminds me of?  Joe Theismann.  Give Heineken #7, make him a captain, and it's a nu start for this franchise.

 

Sorry, David Cross is funny as hell.

Edited January 10, 2021 by GothSkinsFan

[86 Snyder]

Does anybody else think the ball looks different coming out of his hand when he's throwing downfield?  Its kind of like a pitcher throwing a curveball.  It has some 12 to 6 kind of action where it just pops up quickly, with pace, and falls right before it gets to the receiver.  Just an observation.  

[LetThePointsSoar]

On 12/30/2020 at 5:56 AM, LetThePointsSoar said:

The more I watch him, the more he reminds me of Gardner Minshew. And that might be all this team needs right now with as good as our defense is. You know he'll throw some picks, but as long as he's scoring 2-3 TD's a game in the process that might be good enough. 

 

Just my $.02.

 

1 hour ago, Bacon said:

I'll make a comparison.

 

I've been a big Gardner Minshew supporter since he got into the league. That guy is fearless and he can play. I think he absolutely deserves a shot somewhere in this league for his moxie, leadership and playmaking ability. I've seen people call him Brett Favre without the arm strength. But he may never get consistent opportunities because he lacks the physical tools to win a QB competition against high level prospects. 

 

Heinecke looked like Minshew at his best, but more physically gifted. They're the same size, but his legs are much better and his arm is a little stronger. He will never be Josh Allen because he lacks size and strength. It's a problem as far as durability goes. But if we can give him a clean pocket, he can be effective. And he's got the on-field moxie necessary to unite a locker room. 

 

Great minds think alike. 

[CommanderInTheRye]

 

Wow! In less than a week Bruce Arians dissed both Haskins and Alex Smith. I’ll hit the trifecta if he goes after “Man Mountain” Montez next.

Edited January 10, 2021 by TrancesWithWolves

[Dark Acre]

9 minutes ago, 86 Snyder said:

Does anybody else think the ball looks different coming out of his hand when he's throwing downfield?  Its kind of like a pitcher throwing a curveball.  It has some 12 to 6 kind of action where it just pops up quickly, with pace, and falls right before it gets to the receiver.  Just an observation.  

Dude!  I thought the same thing.  You know who didn't have a fastball but who could put it right inside the corner and the only guy who could touch it was his catcher?  Greg Maddux.  And because Maddux had such incredible touch, very few passed balls. 

 

Get some tall guys with long arms -- Logan Thomas, Montez Sweat (former TE), AGG.  Have them stand at the back of the end zone, toes just off the line, have Heinicke lob curve balls right over them so the ball comes down, almost vertically, 3' beyond the back of the end zone. 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

[RWJ]

I believe TH will part of this team going forward. 

[RedskinsLegacy]

In just 1 week we went from the team that shouldn't be here to being called "Tenacious Washington" with a kid at QB who stole the hearts of millions watching. Washington QB Taylor Heinicke steals hearts of viewers with 'courageous' performance in loss to Bucs https://www.nfl.com/news/washington-qb-taylor-heinicke-steals-hearts-of-viewers-with-courageous-performan 

 

[Warhead36]

My guess is we cut Alex Smith or talk him into retiring(if he doesn't already want to). Beyond that, no clue. Would rather figure out the GM situation first.

[kingdaddy]

5 minutes ago, RWJ said:

I believe TH will part of this team going forward. 

He has to be. The players love him and he has guts. You don't have to commit the next 5 years to him but you owe him a chance to compete to start next season....Sign him 1st and then see what else develops and if anyone falls into our laps. Give him an offseason to prepare and he will be even better. 

[RWJ]

Just now, kingdaddy said:

He has to be. The players love him and he has guts. You don't have to commit the next 5 years to him but you owe him a chance to compete to start next season....Sign him 1st and then see what else develops and if anyone falls into our laps. Give him an offseason to prepare and he will be even better. 

2/3 year deal for both he and Allen.  

[wit33]

17 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

Lol... Learning Ron is 100% a “trust your gut” kind of guy. A meeting this soon after Taylor looked like a beast you’d have to think he’s in the plans. 
 

100% okay if the plan is Allen and Taylor battling it out, due to familiarity, cost, and both having legs. 
 

5 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

He has to be. The players love him and he has guts. You don't have to commit the next 5 years to him but you owe him a chance to compete to start next season....Sign him 1st and then see what else develops and if anyone falls into our laps. Give him an offseason to prepare and he will be even better. 

 

What team doesn’t love their late round or un drafted QB lol. I get the point though, Taylor balling out takes the love to another level. 

Edited January 10, 2021 by wit33

[Malapropismic Depository]

Maybe we can stop automatically, defaultingly judge players by their draft status, or lack thereof.

Countless times, highly touted 1st round picks are busts.

And conversely, countless times, players who are completely overlooked by pro scouts, turn out to be great.

Even the best GM's, Coaches, Scouts, get things wrong a lot. They may be pros, but this is not an exact science. It's far from it.

We should no longer, just immediately write off a player, just because he was an UDFA or low round pick, or bounced around a few teams.

That's the big lesson here.

[CommanderInTheRye]

13 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

 

I Love Ron's subtle use of language, “inform him of his intent”, it makes clear who’s calling the shots.

 

If Jay were still the head coach he would have said something like, “Hopefully in the next few days I’ll get input from Dan and Bruce on what we we’re going to do about quarterback going forward.”