Heinicke Hive: The LEGEND of Taylor Heinicke Thread

[zCommander]

Just now, Ghost of Nibbs McPimpin said:

I think it was Cooley.

 

I thought so and then Moss dropped a pass in the endzone for a TD but we would have to get another 3 with less than a minute left but could have had a tie only if our kicker didn't miss a 3 pointer earlier in the game. 20-10 was the final score. 

[NoVaSkins21]

Heinicke needs to rely on the run game, take the plays that are there tomorrow and use his legs when necessary.  Don't try to do too much or force something that it isn't there.  

Edited December 12, 2021 by SAli457180

[mistertim]

7 hours ago, Thinking Skins said:

This is what I love about this board and fan base. We can get into some heated arguments about QBs. If we stay with TH, I wonder if this thread will get as popular as the old Jason Campbell debates. I remember pulling for Ramsey over Brunell but I was all in on that playoff run. But I just hope that Heinicke can silence the critics.

 

For people who are so into the arm strength argument, why couldn't we just adapt more WCO principles into our scheme to take advantage of short passes and holes in the zones. That's kinda what he's already doing, especially when he scrambles on third down (that TD pass to Gibson was so pretty last week). 

 

But I'm all in the that's my QB camp and let's silence the critics

 

I think the arm strength thing is more game planning vs specific execution. If the defense knows that a QB doesn't have the arm to make certain types of throws consistently, they can either try to force him to hit those shots by defending the others as well as possible, or mostly leave it out of their game plan since they don't respect the arm talent he has.

 

There are certainly WCO style QBs who did more short and intermediate as their bread and butter, but there's a big difference between a QB having the arm but choosing short and intermediate because that's what the defense is giving him, and a QB choosing short and intermidiate because he has a below average arm and struggles with those bigger passes. Tom Brady has done plenty of dink and dunk when that's what the defense gave him, but they also knew that he had a good enough arm to make them pay if they left too much of the intermediate and long stuff open, so they still had to respect that.

 

The dink and dunk long drive thing works really well when the run game is strong and the defense is playing well. It probably won't be as viable if those two things aren't working as well. If the opposing team jumps up to a big early lead you're basically forced to take more shots due to time constraints.

[Peregrine]

On 12/10/2021 at 11:09 PM, mistertim said:

 

We're running the ball more effectively because of Heinicke? Is he handing it off in a specific way? Our OL is excellent, the play design is pretty good, and we have some good talent in the backfield.

 

The defense is playing better for multiple reasons, partially because we lost Chase and Montez and now have to actually do interesting things on defense instead of just be plain vanilla. Sure, the long drives help, but I doubt that's the biggest reason.

 

Not everything is somehow caused by Taylor Heinicke, you know?

We literally are.

 

I mean if you dont watch the games thats fine, but he puts more effort into after handoff fakes than almost all other QBs, and his passing on play action keeps linebackers a step behind.

I thought it was very common knowledge that good QB play literally leads to a better run game.  Kind of in the same way a good run game leads to more opportunities in the passing game.  

[mistertim]

7 hours ago, Peregrine said:

We literally are.

 

I mean if you dont watch the games thats fine, but he puts more effort into after handoff fakes than almost all other QBs, and his passing on play action keeps linebackers a step behind.

I thought it was very common knowledge that good QB play literally leads to a better run game.  Kind of in the same way a good run game leads to more opportunities in the passing game.  

 

Can you give me a detailed explanation for what putting extra effort into a handoff looks like? Not talking about play action. The handoff itself. What exactly does extra handoff effort entail?

[skinny21]

31 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Can you give me a detailed explanation for what putting extra effort into a handoff looks like? Not talking about play action. The handoff itself. What exactly does extra handoff effort entail?

FYI, he said “after handoff fakes”.  I could see that having a small effect, though I think the bigger factor is that he excels at PA passing, which could lead to a hesitation from backers when playing the run.  Of course, those can kind of go hand in hand.

 

As to Heinicke’s actual fake handoffs, it’s kind of weird to me how often the back isn’t near him or is on the other side of him when he fakes it.  I’d guess that’s more on the running back, but I really don’t know.

Edited December 12, 2021 by skinny21

[mistertim]

5 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

FYI, he said “after handoff fakes”.  I could see that having a small effect, though I think the bigger factor is that he excels at PA passing, which could lead to a hesitation from backers when playing the run.  Of course, those can kind of go hand in hand.

 

As to Heinicke’s actual fake handoffs, it’s kind of weird to me how often the back isn’t near him or is on the other side of him when he fakes it.  I’d guess that’s more on the running back, but I really don’t know.

 

Ok then I misread it. But do we really think that Heinicke selling fakes well is really a big cause for the run game working? I mean...honestly, on the list of things that are critical for a successful run game, how high up on the totem pole is selling fakes after the handoff? I'd guess not very high. OL, play design, RB talent, outside blocking (WRs, TEs) would all play a much bigger role in that.

 

It's just weird that some people for some reason want to try and tie everything back to Heinicke, whether it's the OL being good, the running game working pretty well, even the defense playing better. Why is that so necessary?

[Thinking Skins]

 

[Burgold]

Every legend has a few stories best forgotten. 
 

“Holy amnesia, Batman! You forgot to pack the batarangs and gas up the bat mobile?”

[petey hodge]

Klutch Allen

Dallas kicker has not missed a kick all game!

AG would’ve run out of boubds

[JSSkinz]

This was a big game for me buying into Heinicke being a possible starter and the team not having to be as focused or feeling pushed into finding a starting QB in free agency or the draft.  We're on a 4 game win streak against our biggest rival at home, he has to win this game if he wants the job and not only did that not happen but he crashed and burned and I'm tired of watching his limp dick passes.  

 

He's a good guy, a great story, can be a great backup for us but IMO that's it.  I doubt my mind changes unless he runs the table.

 

I would like to see Kyle Allen, he may or may not have the gamer gene like Heinicke but I like the zip and accuracy of his passes.

[TradeTheBeal!]

At the end of the day, QB1 has to step up and play big in big games.

 

He didn’t pass the test today.

[RichmondRedskin88]

We still need a franchise QB.  I know we had a lot against us but TH was absolutely rattled. 

[goskins10]

Taylor took a big step back today after a small step back last week. Arm got exposed today. Yea, the oline was ****. But he held the ball too long taking sacks he didn't need to and his floating passes were a problem all day. Thier DBs were waiting. And nothing down field except that one try to Terry that almost got him killed because it was underthrown. 

 

After 3 games of positive improvement each week, he has now gone backwards two weeks in a row. Still think he should finish the season unless inured or unless he completely comes unraveled. But it's clear we need someone with an NFL arm. Love his moxie and love never say die attitude so I hope he figures it out. 

Edited December 12, 2021 by goskins10

[KDawg]

I think Heinicke proved we have a long way to go to get a franchise level long term QB answer today. The issue is, though, our draft position is prohibitive to QB and favorable to forcing a first rounder that shouldn’t be the guy.

 

This is how we wound up with Haskins.

[PartyPosse]

At least he got to do a pylon dive.

[Renegade7]

Taylor had the 4th string center pushed into him on the play he got hurt, after Terry was hurt and at some point even Gibson got benched. 

 

We can debate what got us to that point, fine with that, but let's keep all our cards on the table for why we lost this game. 

 

Including Rivera not having us ready to play.  Everything went wrong today, have to see if we rebound or not.

[Berggy9598]

Just now, Renegade7 said:

Taylor had the 4th string center pushed into him on the play he got hurt, after Terry was hurt and at some point even Gibson got benched. 

 

We can debate what got us to that point, fine with that, but let's keep all our cards on the table for why we lost this game. 

 

Including Rivera not having us ready to play.  Everything went wrong today, have to see if we rebound or not.

The defense played a good game 

[mhd24]

He doesn't have an NFL arm.  Its obvious.  He should have had three more picks today.  I'd start Allen the rest of the year.  The difference in arm strength is obvious.

[Berggy9598]

1 minute ago, mhd24 said:

He doesn't have an NFL arm.  Its obvious.  He should have had three more picks today.  I'd start Allen the rest of the year.  The difference in arm strength is obvious.

I'm not sure his arm is why he threw up a diabolically bad performance today, and I think he should be able to see out the season, but this notion that QB isn't a pressing need because of him is absolutely bananas 

[Vanguard]

10 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I think Heinicke proved we have a long way to go to get a franchise level long term QB answer today. The issue is, though, our draft position is prohibitive to QB and favorable to forcing a first rounder that shouldn’t be the guy.

 

This is how we wound up with Haskins.

I think there is a QB1 in this draft.  There always is, and they don’t always go early.  We just have to make a smart pick.  But it’s easier said than done.  

[KDawg]

2 minutes ago, Vanguard said:

I think there is a QB1 in this draft.  There always is, and they don’t always go early.  We just have to make a smart pick.  But it’s easier said than done.  

I think there is one or two and don’t think they’ll be there. 

[Renegade7]

7 minutes ago, Berggy9598 said:

The defense played a good game 

 

They kept us in the game while Dak and Elliot for the most part played like crap.  We want to call it good, sure maybe, Dallas defense played better.  If are to expect Taylor to play better next game in Dallas, have to expect Dak will, too, they both did a lot of dumb **** today, more then usual.

[Berggy9598]

1 minute ago, Renegade7 said:

 

They kept us in the game while Dak and Elliot for the most part played like crap.  We want to call it good, sure maybe, Dallas defense played better.  If are to expect Taylor to play better next game in Dallas, have to expect Dak will, too, they both did a lot of dumb **** today, more then usual.

I mean I hope you stretched before those mental gymnastics. 

[Warhead36]

Heinicke isn't going to win these types of games. When you have a team as undermanned as we had, you can only win if you have a Rodgers or Brady type at QB.