Heinicke Hive: The LEGEND of Taylor Heinicke Thread

[Commander -JB-]

16 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

Weird. Reading some of the comments here I assume he’d already won at least two.

Yes he has won two games.  Keep up with it, man! 

[Morneblade]

All ya'll muthaf%^$#(* be crackin' me up.

 

Seriously (pun intended) Imma break the sitiation down for ya.

 

Us Heinie boyz, we don't know if he's HoF or CFL. Honestly don't giva **** right now either. Just love what we're seeing, because we haven't seen s*** like this in decades. He does this for exactly 0 more games, we got more out of him that anyone expected. but he's more likely to keep ballin', 'cuz that is all he knows, bros.

 

Now, on the other end, we got our Debbie Downers. "Well, we have to see more to determine if he has the correct makup for him to ascend to become a Franchise QB in the National Football League, The amount of variables, the sample si..."

 

We know.

 

WE KNOW.

 

Defense is 💩, and we're still in games, and winning them.

 

Offense has looked better than it has in YEARS.

 

Just, enjoy it, don't overthink it too much, and dive it. Heinie ends up stinkin' up the joint from here on out? We can try Fitzy, and see if he can play better than in the preseason (where he stunk) or his quarter and 1/2 (where he stunk). Maybe it's Fitzmagic all over the place. Maybe it's FitzTragic. Maybe a little of both. WDF knows?

 

I don't. I don't care either.

 

Fact is we, got a lot of fun out of the Heinie, and he kept us in the season. He already won. Everything else is just icing.

 

But, if he shows what he's doing now, is just a average Heinie, Ima takin' that Heinie to the bank.

 

Big Picture: 2nd string undrafted FA QB has us 2nd in the division for the season. While our supposedly vaunted Defense is last in just about every category.

 

It's been Heinie's time to shine, and that bootay be glowin'. I'm going to enjoy the ride, for as long as it lasts.

 

So saddle up! And ride that Heinie train for as long as it last. A week. A month. A year. To the HOF with a Disney movie about him 3 years after he gets elected.

 

 

[Malapropismic Depository]

Ironically, the pro-Heinicke and the anti-Heinicke people are actually extremely similar in a fundamental way. And with just one basic difference.

The similarity is that they each fantasize about a certain type of QB.

One group is envisioning Heinicke, as becoming a very good long-term starter, after a late bloom.

While the other group fantasizes about us instead using a #1 Draft Pick, to obtain the perfect prototype NFL QB, who checks all the conventional 'scouting boxes', including a cannon arm. And then goes on, to live up to his pre-NFL hype.

Ironically, the former may end up being more likely than the latter

 

Edited October 8, 2021 by Malapropismic Depository

[Renegade7]

There's anti-Heinicke people?

 

 

If you're not with us, you're against us, eh?  Why does everything have to be so GD binary here?  Is that the nature of debate that there has to be two sides to the issue that declare war on each other?  Nobody here wants to see him fail, this is getting old saying that.

[skinny21]

12 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

Sorry, but the entire premise is just silly and points to some of the issues I have with this Hive.

 

Nobody can leave well enough alone. Everything has to somehow be changed and morphed and one-upped until Heinicke is basically a heroic cult figure. Everything would have been better with Heinicke. If he'd had those 6 passes, he would somehow have led us to victory. If he'd have been starting for the past 3 years we'd be SB champions by now, right?

 

This post is a microcosm of it. You go through this long ass, winding, completely imaginary scenario where the Hero Heinicke somehow saves the day by being in for a couple more series based on a ton of assumptions that are dubious (you really think his first few starting drives since last season and without work with the starters would have been great?)

 

Can't you guys just leave it at "Heinicke has played well so far, let's hope he keeps it up and watch"? Why does it always have to become some sort of absurdist theater?

I don’t really disagree with you (I’m mostly just enjoying the ride), but your statement I bolded… it’s kind of a two way street, no?

 

[petey hodge]

4 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

I'm assuming Fitz not being in the picture. Like if he'd happened to get injured in preseason or something.

 

Or maybe... a silly waterslide accident in the offseason?

 

[Newera]

Taylor has been proving people wrong all his life.  High school.  College.  And now the pros.   To the point, he is comfortable doing it.   For whatever reason, he seems "Very good at football."   He is betting on himself.    Thus far . . . he seems "Special."   Let's just keep enjoying it.    This organization is due to finally get lucky.   After years of futility at the position.    It seems all he has ever needed is an organization to give him a chance to grow and evolve.  He may not check all the boxes physically.  However, he does check them mentally.  Dude processes fast.  Sees the field.  Is mobile.  Fits the new breed of quarterbacks.   We've gotten lucky.  Enjoy it. 

Edited October 8, 2021 by Newera

[Commander PK]

2 hours ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

While the other group fantasizes about us instead using a #1 Draft Pick, to obtain the perfect prototype NFL QB, who checks all the conventional 'scouting boxes', including a cannon arm. And then goes on, to live up to his pre-NFL hype.

Ironically, the former may end up being more likely than the latter

 

Far more likely.  More often than not a QB taken in the first round does not meet the ridiculous level of expectations...and surprise...produces (at best) the level of play that Taylor Heinicke is producing right now.  All things remaining equal, I'd rather spend the first round pick on the secondary.

 

I don't really subscribe to the "Suck for Luck" mentality.  The high first round QB "messiah" that comes in to save the day and makes you a contender every season for a decade.  Those guys are so few and far between, and it's really a crap shoot despite what the "experts" will tell you.  As an example, I remember the night Mark Sanchez was drafted.  I watched him in his suit on his couch, sipping his wine, with a smug look on his face when the phone rang, and my impression was immediately...this guy doesn't get it.  There is no way 51 other football players are going to follow him to hell and back. 

 

There is nothing wrong with enjoying your success, but an ounce of humility would do a lot of these guys some good.  

Edited October 8, 2021 by Painkiller

[ILikeBilly]

3 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

What hyperbole? Someone literally just ****ed at me earlier for saying Heinicke had been "pretty good" instead of saying he's amazing and is clearly the guy.

 

And maybe it was limited to let Fitz get a feel since it was a new offensive system. Maybe it was just the design that Turner had for the first x number of plays. Maybe they wanted to try and established the run early. Who knows. Either way, watching 6 pass attempts from a new QB and then coming to the conclusion that he clearly isn't the guy based on that sample is ludicrous.

I didn't say anything close to

"literally just ****ed at me earlier for saying Heinicke had been "pretty good" instead of saying he's amazing and is clearly the guy.".

 

I said that Taylor playing pretty good summed up your opinion on him.  You want to see more.  We do too, but we can admit that for his games as a 'Skin, he is as good as we have had for years.  Can you agree with that?  He has 2 game winning drives in 3 starts this year.  He has 2 two play 75 yard TD drives this year.  He is exciting to watch and his teammates play hard for him.  He's Taylor freaking Heinicke.

Edited October 8, 2021 by ILikeBilly

[Newera]

Let me first start by saying I make my living in marketing.  

 

Taylor Henicke is the Joshua Bell experiment.   If you don't know the story.  Joshua Bell is considered the best violinist in the world.  People pay hundreds even thousands to go see him perform live.   Well, in this perception experiment he decided to play during rush hour at the Pentagon metro.   If you were to watch it, as you will see based on the environment and where he was playing,  people viewed him at just an ordinary street performer out getting his hustle on in that context.   Yet, he is considered one of the best violinists in the world.  The perception of where he was playing undoubtedly altered people's reality of him.  It was how people viewed him.  Not how he played.  He is one of the best violinist in the world.   Context matters.   Bias is real.  We are all subject to it.  

 

I think to an extent this happening to Taylor as well.   We often don't realize how we are swayed and manipulated to think certain ways about certain things.  To have biases.  Particularly when things don't fit the normal narrative.  Or, our normal narrative.   

 

In regard to Taylor, based on his physical metrics and draft status, he is not really supposed to be doing what he's doing in the NFL with only four starts.   He is an anomaly.   He is outplaying all the rookie qbs by a lot.   Sans Mac Jones who hasn't really looked bad.   Who's numbers are still not Taylors.  Quite frankly, Taylor is out playing many established starters the first month.  That's not supposed to happen to someone with only four NFL starts.   Is it?

 

It's perception and context.  Think about it.

 

Taylor wasn't drafted.  Doesn't fit all the physical metrics.  Small college.  Doesn't have a rocket for an arm.  Whereas Kyler Murray isn't judged the same way.  Because he went number one and went to a big school where we all saw him perform.  He gets the benefit of the doubt.    He is even shorter than Taylor.  Granted Kylar is faster and has a stronger arm.  He is viewed in a much different lite than Taylor coming out.    He went number one.  He is supposed to be good, right?   Yet, if you study Taylor.  He too was a college phenom.  He broke Steve McNairs college passing record for small colleges.  Passed for over 15,000 yards.   Top five in college history.   Held the record for the most passing yards in a college game.  Until a guy named Pat Mahomes came along and broke it.

 

Personally to me.  Taylor is poor mans Kyler Murry in style.  The operative words are "Poor mans."  Even Russell Wilson-ich  But, because he was an undrafted free agent just trying to hang on to the league for a few years with one leg in and one leg out, he wasn't necessarily going to get a fair  look or the patience of a first round draft pick was going to get.  Understandable.  Free agents margin for error is a lot less. 

 

Now he is getting it.  Extensively.  With a team and staff that is starting to believe in him.  If past performance is any indicator of future results with him.   He ain't going to give up the job.    If you go to the Vikings board.  They were and now are still pissed they let him go.   Particularly when Bridgewater got hurt.  LOL

 

He just might be the Joshua Bell of the quarterbacks this year.  Skewed perception.   After almost 30 years since our last Super Bowl and probably 30 quarterbacks shuttled in and out, we just may have gotten lucky and found  a true gem thanks to Covid.  Whodathunk!   Enjoy it.   It's how the Cowboys found Romo.    We are due to finally get lucky.  Good for him.  At the least right now, he has given himself a ten year NFL career in this league as a back up.  That's a given now.   Now can he prove he can be a "Dude."    

 

Me thinks yes.   But, I'm on the bandwagon.   Dude moves the ball.  

 

Let's see how he fairs against the Hall of Famers he is going to be going against.    Can't wait!!

 

I think he relishes it.  It his dream.  

 

 

 

   

[CobraCommander]

8 hours ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

Conversely, expecting a Top 5 QB to fall into our laps, is virtually wishful thinking

True, we should probably just stop trying. This franchise, I swear. We've never had a nice thing so it's impossible for us to get one. It's like the lottery, you can't win if you don't play. More often we settle with stop gap options. Every time we get burned by a Dwayne Haskins we just mope around talking about how it's impossible, except it seems like every year a team gets their guy. 

[Chris 44]

11 minutes ago, Florgon79 said:

True, we should probably just stop trying. This franchise, I swear. We've never had a nice thing so it's impossible for us to get one. It's like the lottery, you can't win if you don't play. More often we settle with stop gap options. Every time we get burned by a Dwayne Haskins we just mope around talking about how it's impossible, except it seems like every year a team gets their guy. 

My wife plays the lottery on occasion, I make fun of her, tell her she's wasting her/our money. But if she ever hits....guess who's all over that bandwagon. lol

[mistertim]

7 hours ago, ILikeBilly said:

I didn't say anything close to

"literally just ****ed at me earlier for saying Heinicke had been "pretty good" instead of saying he's amazing and is clearly the guy.".

 

I said that Taylor playing pretty good summed up your opinion on him.  You want to see more.  We do too, but we can admit that for his games as a 'Skin, he is as good as we have had for years.  Can you agree with that?  He has 2 game winning drives in 3 starts this year.  He has 2 two play 75 yard TD drives this year.  He is exciting to watch and his teammates play hard for him.  He's Taylor freaking Heinicke.

 

Sure you said that, then you went on to talk about how amazing he is and told me to "wake up" like I'm some clueless dude who's just wandering around aimlessly and unable to see the magnificence of Heinicke.

 

I get it. You guys are enthralled. I think he's played pretty well but there are things that still worry me so I want to see how it plays out over a whole season. 

[mistertim]

10 hours ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

Ironically, the pro-Heinicke and the anti-Heinicke people are actually extremely similar in a fundamental way. And with just one basic difference.

The similarity is that they each fantasize about a certain type of QB.

One group is envisioning Heinicke, as becoming a very good long-term starter, after a late bloom.

While the other group fantasizes about us instead using a #1 Draft Pick, to obtain the perfect prototype NFL QB, who checks all the conventional 'scouting boxes', including a cannon arm. And then goes on, to live up to his pre-NFL hype.

Ironically, the former may end up being more likely than the latter

 

 

Not sure exactly where this is coming from or who exactly has waxed poetic in here about drafting.

 

First of all, there aren't "anti-Heinicke" people, so I really wish you all would stop making everything so black and white. Everyone in here would love for him to succeed and become our long term answer. I certainly would.

 

So the really broad difference seems to be one group thinks Heinicke has been amazing, is all about hyping him up and suggesting that they think he's the long term answer after 4 games starting. The other group thinks he's generally played well but see some things that need improvement and want to watch him play a whole season before making any decisions on him.

 

But people in the second camp are called "debbie downers" by those in the first camp. And those in the first camp are called "homers" by those in the second camp (though, to his credit, @ODU AGGIEis completely open about being one).

Edited October 8, 2021 by mistertim

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

Saints have one of the best defenses in the league (but not as insane as the Bills are playing), if Heinicke can have a good game against that, then we've got something cooking with him.

 

Sucks that our WR corps is depleted and Logan Thomas is out.

[srtman04]

5 hours ago, Newera said:

Let me first start by saying I make my living in marketing.  

 

Taylor Henicke is the Joshua Bell experiment.   If you don't know the story.  Joshua Bell is considered the best violinist in the world.  People pay hundreds even thousands to go see him perform live.   Well, in this perception experiment he decided to play during rush hour at the Pentagon metro.   If you were to watch it, as you will see based on the environment and where he was playing,  people viewed him at just an ordinary street performer out getting his hustle on in that context.   Yet, he is considered one of the best violinists in the world.  The perception of where he was playing undoubtedly altered people's reality of him.  It was how people viewed him.  Not how he played.  He is one of the best violinist in the world.   Context matters.   Bias is real.  We are all subject to it.  

 

I think to an extent this happening to Taylor as well.   We often don't realize how we are swayed and manipulated to think certain ways about certain things.  To have biases.  Particularly when things don't fit the normal narrative.  Or, our normal narrative.   

 

In regard to Taylor, based on his physical metrics and draft status, he is not really supposed to be doing what he's doing in the NFL with only four starts.   He is an anomaly.   He is outplaying all the rookie qbs by a lot.   Sans Mac Jones who hasn't really looked bad.   Who's numbers are still not Taylors.  Quite frankly, Taylor is out playing many established starters the first month.  That's not supposed to happen to someone with only four NFL starts.   Is it?

 

It's perception and context.  Think about it.

 

Taylor wasn't drafted.  Doesn't fit all the physical metrics.  Small college.  Doesn't have a rocket for an arm.  Whereas Kyler Murray isn't judged the same way.  Because he went number one and went to a big school where we all saw him perform.  He gets the benefit of the doubt.    He is even shorter than Taylor.  Granted Kylar is faster and has a stronger arm.  He is viewed in a much different lite than Taylor coming out.    He went number one.  He is supposed to be good, right?   Yet, if you study Taylor.  He too was a college phenom.  He broke Steve McNairs college passing record for small colleges.  Passed for over 15,000 yards.   Top five in college history.   Held the record for the most passing yards in a college game.  Until a guy named Pat Mahomes came along and broke it.

 

Personally to me.  Taylor is poor mans Kyler Murry in style.  The operative words are "Poor mans."  Even Russell Wilson-ich  But, because he was an undrafted free agent just trying to hang on to the league for a few years with one leg in and one leg out, he wasn't necessarily going to get a fair  look or the patience of a first round draft pick was going to get.  Understandable.  Free agents margin for error is a lot less. 

 

Now he is getting it.  Extensively.  With a team and staff that is starting to believe in him.  If past performance is any indicator of future results with him.   He ain't going to give up the job.    If you go to the Vikings board.  They were and now are still pissed they let him go.   Particularly when Bridgewater got hurt.  LOL

 

He just might be the Joshua Bell of the quarterbacks this year.  Skewed perception.   After almost 30 years since our last Super Bowl and probably 30 quarterbacks shuttled in and out, we just may have gotten lucky and found  a true gem thanks to Covid.  Whodathunk!   Enjoy it.   It's how the Cowboys found Romo.    We are due to finally get lucky.  Good for him.  At the least right now, he has given himself a ten year NFL career in this league as a back up.  That's a given now.   Now can he prove he can be a "Dude."    

 

Me thinks yes.   But, I'm on the bandwagon.   Dude moves the ball.  

 

Let's see how he fairs against the Hall of Famers he is going to be going against.    Can't wait!!

 

I think he relishes it.  It his dream.  

 

 

 

   

 

This post has so many wins in it that I need shades just to look at it......so so awesome.  🙂 

 

 

 

[Tress Is The Way]

2 minutes ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

Saints have one of the best defenses in the league (but not as insane as the Bills are playing), if Heinicke can have a good game against that, then we've got something cooking with him.

 

Sucks that our WR corps is depleted and Logan Thomas is out.

One of the best? I beg to differ. I'd give them middle of the pack (12 - 15). While they are good, they are beatable imo

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

1 minute ago, ZarG3 said:

One of the best? I beg to differ. I'd give them middle of the pack (12 - 15). While they are good, they are beatable imo

 

5th fewest points allowed.  4th most turnovers forced.  2nd in DVOA.

 

Stats say they're one of the best through 4 weeks.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

5 hours ago, Newera said:

I think to an extent this happening to Taylor as well.   We often don't realize how we are swayed and manipulated to think certain ways about certain things.  To have biases.  Particularly when things don't fit the normal narrative.  Or, our normal narrative.   

 

There are always exceptions and perhaps Heineke is one.  For every TH, there are thousands of other QB's with weak arms, that have led lesser schools to wins and gaudy stats over the course of their college careers.  Some of which have made it to the NFL and fizzled quickly and/or were delegated to clipboard holder.

 

I don't think bias is the right word at all.  The opinions of those who remain skeptical about how long Heineke can keep this going is based on history and what we've witnessed with our own eyes over years and years of watching college and professional football.

 

The other side to your angle where those of us who aren't completely sold on Heineke are letting our biases get in the way can be countered saying those of you who are gung-ho about Heineke are seeing what you want to see, because we're desperate for competency at the QB position.  I'll admit that a lot of what we've seen is good.  But it's still entirely too small of a sample size to draw any conclusions.

[ODU AGGIE]

5 hours ago, Newera said:

Let me first start by saying I make my living in marketing.  

 

Taylor Henicke is the Joshua Bell experiment.   If you don't know the story.  Joshua Bell is considered the best violinist in the world.  People pay hundreds even thousands to go see him perform live.   Well, in this perception experiment he decided to play during rush hour at the Pentagon metro.   If you were to watch it, as you will see based on the environment and where he was playing,  people viewed him at just an ordinary street performer out getting his hustle on in that context.   Yet, he is considered one of the best violinists in the world.  The perception of where he was playing undoubtedly altered people's reality of him.  It was how people viewed him.  Not how he played.  He is one of the best violinist in the world.   Context matters.   Bias is real.  We are all subject to it.  

 

I think to an extent this happening to Taylor as well.   We often don't realize how we are swayed and manipulated to think certain ways about certain things.  To have biases.  Particularly when things don't fit the normal narrative.  Or, our normal narrative.   

 

In regard to Taylor, based on his physical metrics and draft status, he is not really supposed to be doing what he's doing in the NFL with only four starts.   He is an anomaly.   He is outplaying all the rookie qbs by a lot.   Sans Mac Jones who hasn't really looked bad.   Who's numbers are still not Taylors.  Quite frankly, Taylor is out playing many established starters the first month.  That's not supposed to happen to someone with only four NFL starts.   Is it?

 

It's perception and context.  Think about it.

 

Taylor wasn't drafted.  Doesn't fit all the physical metrics.  Small college.  Doesn't have a rocket for an arm.  Whereas Kyler Murray isn't judged the same way.  Because he went number one and went to a big school where we all saw him perform.  He gets the benefit of the doubt.    He is even shorter than Taylor.  Granted Kylar is faster and has a stronger arm.  He is viewed in a much different lite than Taylor coming out.    He went number one.  He is supposed to be good, right?   Yet, if you study Taylor.  He too was a college phenom.  He broke Steve McNairs college passing record for small colleges.  Passed for over 15,000 yards.   Top five in college history.   Held the record for the most passing yards in a college game.  Until a guy named Pat Mahomes came along and broke it.

 

Personally to me.  Taylor is poor mans Kyler Murry in style.  The operative words are "Poor mans."  Even Russell Wilson-ich  But, because he was an undrafted free agent just trying to hang on to the league for a few years with one leg in and one leg out, he wasn't necessarily going to get a fair  look or the patience of a first round draft pick was going to get.  Understandable.  Free agents margin for error is a lot less. 

 

Now he is getting it.  Extensively.  With a team and staff that is starting to believe in him.  If past performance is any indicator of future results with him.   He ain't going to give up the job.    If you go to the Vikings board.  They were and now are still pissed they let him go.   Particularly when Bridgewater got hurt.  LOL

 

He just might be the Joshua Bell of the quarterbacks this year.  Skewed perception.   After almost 30 years since our last Super Bowl and probably 30 quarterbacks shuttled in and out, we just may have gotten lucky and found  a true gem thanks to Covid.  Whodathunk!   Enjoy it.   It's how the Cowboys found Romo.    We are due to finally get lucky.  Good for him.  At the least right now, he has given himself a ten year NFL career in this league as a back up.  That's a given now.   Now can he prove he can be a "Dude."    

 

Me thinks yes.   But, I'm on the bandwagon.   Dude moves the ball.  

 

Let's see how he fairs against the Hall of Famers he is going to be going against.    Can't wait!!

 

I think he relishes it.  It his dream.  

 

 

 

   

Thank you. I had never heard of the Joshua Bell Experiment, but I think you hit the nail square on the head. It is my belief that TH will continue to amaze. Cheers!

[mistertim]

39 minutes ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

5th fewest points allowed.  4th most turnovers forced.  2nd in DVOA.

 

Stats say they're one of the best through 4 weeks.

 

Yeah 3 of the next 4 games are going to be against tough defenses. Denver's is excellent, NO is very good, and GB is good. I'm definitely interested in seeing how TH plays down this stretch before the bye. If he plays really well against a few good defenses I think it will go a long way towards convincing people that he has a shot of being the guy. Personally I'd still want to see the whole season, but those games are still pretty important IMO.

[ODU AGGIE]

1 minute ago, mistertim said:

 

Yeah 3 of the next 4 games are going to be against tough defenses. Denver's is excellent, NO is very good, and GB is good. I'm definitely interested in seeing how TH plays down this stretch before the bye. If he plays really well against a few good defenses I think it will go a long way towards convincing people that he has a shot of being the guy. Personally I'd still want to see the whole season, but those games are still pretty important IMO.

MT, I'll give you this. You are tough, and you are consistent. Cheers!

[kingdaddy]

We've got to get McKissic on the field with Gibson, TMac and Samuel....get creative and run plays for all of them. This is an explosive group and with TH's wheels we could drive defenses crazy. 

[ODU AGGIE]

12 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

We've got to get McKissic on the field with Gibson, TMac and Samuel....get creative and run plays for all of them. This is an explosive group and with TH's wheels we could drive defenses crazy. 

I think Mckissic and Gibson should be on the field together, but only occasionally. In general, they should be kept fresh by spelling each other throughout the game. TMac, Samuel and Thomas (Seals-Jones for now) form an awesome receiver threat. If the horses we have continue to shine for Heinicke the way they have, and TH continues to play at his current level (he will!), very good things are ahead if the defense will just step it up to anywhere near where they were last year. That combination could mean going into the Dallas game with the division lead on the line.

Edited October 8, 2021 by ODU AGGIE

[philibusters]

I like Taylor Heinicke.  I see him as a QB in the 24 to 40 range, potentially he a strong backup QB or weak starter.    Within that 25-40 he probably has the weakest arm of the 16 QB's I would put in that group, but despite having a weak arm he is probably would of the best at pushing the ball downfield simply because he has decent timing and natural aggressiveness.