Rookie QB or Veteran QB for "Next Season"??? (I didn't bump this, but I ended up being wrong anyway....)

[DWinzit]

I keep seeing posts of next years draft being void of QB's.

I thought there wee to be a number of ones with big potential, Howell being first. Other names I can think of Slovis, Shough, Rattler and of course....Ridder! 

Could be worthy of collecting a pick or two for next year if there is a crop of players in 2022

Edited February 13, 2021 by DWinzit

[Darrell Green Fan]

7 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

It would be for me.

 

As for value point that some have made.  If you are getting any QB cheapish clearly the idea is to try to rehab said player and hope for the best.  I don't think that's lost on anyone.  I like Mariota but i like him from the context of shopping for fast food.  If we are going cheap and its between McDonalds, Burger King and Wendys what do you choose?  If I choose Wendys its not because the cuisine is top rate.  But if i am looking to spend $10 on a meal, I am not arguing that said meal is fine dining. . I am doing apples to apples fast food comparisons. 

 

Reason why its Mariota to me is because at least he has a season or two with real flashes and even took his team once to the playoffs.  And any QB who can run 4.5 -- that's special speed for that spot.  That's faster than Russell Wilson and most QBs in the league who are considered mobile.   One of the beat guys wrote (can't recall whom) that one NFL observer told them that the Titans didn't explot his mobility as much as they should.  Is that true or not?  You got me.   But there is some clay potentially to work with Mariota that i don't see the same way for example with Darnold. 

 

If the goal is to squeak out the last playoff spot and be eliminated immediately you sign Marcus Mariotta.  But we have higher goals than that.  And those goals will not be reached with Marcus Mariotta, we already know what he is.  

[Est.1974]

6 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

If the goal is to squeak out the last playoff spot and be eliminated immediately you sign Marcus Mariotta.  But we have higher goals than that.  And those goals will not be reached with Marcus Mariotta, we already know what he is.  

I think he’s a very good bridge option, unless we go all in on a big gun. I’m open to that move as well tbh.

[kingdaddy]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

That’s pretty much how I see him. I compared his ceiling myself to Kirk before. They both in my view have a key attribute in common. That is, selling play action well.

I see more Andy Dalton in Mac Jones...Jones seems like a way more confident QB than Cousins is when I compare them. 

[Darrell Green Fan]

2 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

I think he’s a very good bridge option, unless we go all in on a big gun. I’m open to that move as well tbh.

 

If by bridge you mean for 1 year I can see that perhaps. But I just don't know what a failed former starter accomplishes other than win a game or 2 more this coming season. I think Ron is looking to find the long term solution but he also said it didn't necessarily have to happen this year.  

[Skinsinparadise]

9 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

If the goal is to squeak out the last playoff spot and be eliminated immediately you sign Marcus Mariotta.  But we have higher goals than that.  And those goals will not be reached with Marcus Mariotta, we already know what he is.  

 

Sure.  But going back to my food analogy.  You can only go to the restaurants that are open.  I am willing to overpay for a steak within reason.  But I am not paying $300 for one.  And we don't know what will be available and whether the restaurants even want our money.  I love fantasizing about Russell Wilson and Watson but what are the odds we have the capital to get them or they even hit the market?  Trading up in the draft is a fun idea but i do think its in play that moving up from pick 19 would require an RG3 type bounty.

 

So IMO you got to play it Zen and take what comes.  

[Thinking Skins]

2 hours ago, DWinzit said:

I am with you but wanted to feel out others on how play ready Lance would be. It scares me to spend a ton of capital to move u and get a guy with limited experience to play QB then have him sit a year or more. It is not my style.

I am in favor of Newman in the 4th. Trask or Mond in the 4th or 5th. If Jones was where he belongs at the end of the first or beginning of the 2nd I would be cool with that.

 

I see MLB, WR, DB's and OT as the top current needs. I figure MLB, 1 WR and 1 DB will be the first FA priorities. Then double up on then plus nail down an OT in the draft, plus ad a all around TE, so I'd rather not move up at all for a QB. 

Honestly, the analysis pre draft is always fun and stuff but so much of it is about what's between these guys heads as well as stuff beyond their control like what opportunity they're given, where they're drafted, whether they are put under any pressure, the weapons they have, the line and protection, etc. I can imagine Dalton had an easier road than some QBs because his first read was AJ Green who could always get open, so it didn't matter if he wasn't great at getting beyond his first read. Dak had Zek his rookie year, so he could lean on a running game and not be forced into really bad situations. Kirk was looking like a bust (or just a meh player) in 2013 and 2014 before lighting the world on fire in 2015 and 2016. So I think that's a lot of it. Even now with Darnold, people are saying he just needs the right opportunity because NY is so bad. 

 

I think what we have here is good, which is provable by so many QBs looking at least respectable (and yes I say Haskins too because before that last game and at times during it, we were arguing about his impact. He wasn't lighting the world on fire but he wasn't doing critical mistakes too often). 

[Skinsinparadise]

11 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

I see more Andy Dalton in Mac Jones...Jones seems like a way more confident QB than Cousins is when I compare them. 

 

OK.  Not sure how confidence is being judged.  If its pushing the ball down the field -- that's more Kirk's game than Dalton.  They've both had their issues in big games.  Kirk at least won a playoff game whereas Andy has not.

 

Jay knows Andy well for obvious reasons, he actually dubbed him on a recent podcast as conservative stylistically who takes what comes and doesn't push the ball that much down the field, he compared him to Alex on that front.

 

As for Dalton's personality, I admit I don't know much about the dude on that front.  I've read my share about Mac.   He comes off like a dude with a lot of personality once he lets loose, prankster.  If that's more Dalton, don't know?  I agree Kirk is more serious. 

Edited February 13, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Mooka]

Not sure Mariota is a real option. He might be worth the gamble in a vacuum but we'd be rolling with Mariota/Heinicke/Allen?  (Not in any order)

 

Mariota and Heinicke are huge injury risks and Allen is still recovering from surgery. 

 

Throw in Alex Smith.... we need a healthy QB option somewhere. 

[actorguy1]

 

[kingdaddy]

How bout Tim Settle and a 6th for Marriotta? 

[TradeTheBeal!]

Very open to the idea of getting MM for a mid-round pick and then going on a FAT BOY BINGE.

[kingdaddy]

4 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said:

Very open to the idea of getting MM for a mid-round pick and then going on a FAT BOY BINGE.

If we do trade for MM that has to be a sure sign that RR wants to see more of what Allen/Heiny can do doesn't it? MM would be brought in as competition and all 3 of them would duke it out. We'd also have 3 QB's who have similar skill sets and would all fit the same in the offense. With RR being an up front man of his word, if he told Heinicke he'd have a chance to compete for the job then I would take that to the bank. 

On another note, wouldn't it be something if we did have these 3 QB's (including Marriotta) under contract and used them as assets in a possible deal for Watson? Something like two 1sts, Montez, Settle, Marriotta  and Heiny for Watson.....(No, I do not want to trade Sweat it's just a hypothetical trade). We would trade Houston 2 QB's and still have Kyle Allen to back up Watson. What a trade that would be. Houston would get 2 defensive starters, two 1st round picks and 2 quarterbacks. 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Thinking Skins]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Reason why its Mariota to me is because at least he has a season or two with real flashes and even took his team once to the playoffs.  And any QB who can run 4.5 -- that's special speed for that spot.  That's faster than Russell Wilson and most QBs in the league who are considered mobile.   One of the beat guys wrote (can't recall whom) that one NFL observer told them that the Titans didn't exploit his mobility as much as they should.  Is that true or not?  You got me.   But there is some clay potentially to work with Mariota that i don't see the same way for example with Darnold. 

I hear that and it's one reason he's near the top of the veteran options for me as well. But I'd also put Trubisky up there. Decision making may be a problem with him and getting through his reads, and if they are then I'm less in love with him, but he has taken Chicago to the playoffs multiple times and had a good year this year and 2 years ago. And he doesn't get hurt. My fear is that he'll be a valued QB as likely the top non franchised guy.

 

As @Jerichopoints out, what's the real difference between a Matiota, Tribusky and Heinicke? Maybe injury but assuming they're all healthy do we really want to be paying one of the first two the likes of 20 mil a year? 

 

[Rskins91]

39 minutes ago, actorguy1 said:

 

A Day 3 pick (4th) would seem good here. And I’d be happy with it. Roll the dice, see if he’s a reclamation project who can revive his career. Then build through the draft and FA to help give the team talent everywhere they can. 

[Skinsinparadise]

25 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

I hear that and it's one reason he's near the top of the veteran options for me as well. But I'd also put Trubisky up there. Decision making may be a problem with him and getting through his reads, and if they are then I'm less in love with him, but he has taken Chicago to the playoffs multiple times and had a good year this year and 2 years ago. And he doesn't get hurt. My fear is that he'll be a valued QB as likely the top non franchised guy.

 

As @Jerichopoints out, what's the real difference between a Matiota, Tribusky and Heinicke? Maybe injury but assuming they're all healthy do we really want to be paying one of the first two the likes of 20 mil a year? 

 

 

Mobility?  Mariota with a better YPA, YPG.  4.52 speed versus Trubisky's 4.67.  I am fascinated by that 4.52 speed.  That's really fast for a QB.  And rewatching the Raiders game he started, he looked that fast.  

 

I haven't sat down and watched Trubisky yet.  I don't have a strong opinion on him one way or another.  I know he seems to be a punchline in Chicago.

 

Edited February 13, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Thinking Skins]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Mobility?  Mariota with a better YPA, YPG.  4.52 speed versus Trubisky's 4.67.  I am fascinated by that 4.52 speed.  That's really fast for a QB.  And rewatching the Raiders game he started, he looked that fast.  

 

I haven't sat down and watched Trubisky yet.  I don't have a strong opinion on him one way or another.  I know he seems to be a punchline in Chicago.

 

Did you mean to mention me in the talk about mobility? I think they're both mobile and that's one reason I like them both. Mariota has more but he also has been hurt more. 

 

I think my problem with both is decision making and really just that late game last drive, put the team on his back to carry them down the field in the last 2 minutes. That's what I haven't seen out of either one and one of the main complaints I've heard from their fans. Honestly, that's one reason I'm not as high on Mond. As much as i like his stats outside of completion percentage, fans talk about him just not having "it" and it makes me feel like he's a mobile game manager but not a playmaker. 

 

We've discussed this many times before and I don't have a problem with a game manager at all and I think we can win with one, heck SF and LA were in the super bowl with game managers. But I'm not in the mood to give up these 20 mil a year deals to game managers who are easier to replace for half that. 

[Number 44]

1 hour ago, kingdaddy said:

How bout Tim Settle and a 6th for Marriotta? 

We don't have a 6th, unless you mean 2022.

[Skinsinparadise]

7 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

Did you mean to mention me in the talk about mobility? I think they're both mobile and that's one reason I like them both. Mariota has more but he also has been hurt more. 

 

 I wasn't paying atttention to who said what so just responding to the point in general.

 

8 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

 

We've discussed this many times before and I don't have a problem with a game manager at all and I think we can win with one, heck SF and LA were in the super bowl with game managers. But I'm not in the mood to give up these 20 mil a year deals to game managers who are easier to replace for half that. 

 

Yep and didn't win it facing better QBs.  The Rams dumped theirs and I keep reading SF is trying to dump theirs.   Wonder why.....

 

 

[Darth Tater]

My problem with Trey Lance any higher than the second round is that the best predictor of failure for a QB at the pro-level is lack of multiple years of some decent level of college success.

[Inigo Montoya]

Trade for Mariota for our other 3rd at most, 4th ideally bc the raiders need to dump that salary, re do his deal to a $25/$30mil 2 year deal (bc he’s an incentive laden $20mil right now) . Full competition between him and heine and Kyle is the 3 when he’s back and healthy.

 

Cut Alex ( love ya but it’s time to move on) Resign J Allen and get a little cap relief sign A Rob- sign L David... move up in the draft for pitts, or pick up N Harris at 19, get o line, LB, safety and corner help in the draft. Could be a sweet sweet off-season. 

This team with half decent QB play was really good, a few more playmakers and good Lb play would have had us toe to toe with the SB champs (we were close as it was)

[PartyPosse]

I have a higher opinion of MM than most. I think he’s miles better than what we have, if Alex retires, I’m ok rolling out MM, Heinecke and a day three QB like Ehlinger. Or wait till next year to draft someone like Ridder. 
 

Kyle Allen isn’t gonna be a high demand guy so if things don’t work for anything we’ll just resign him.

[Malapropismic Depository]

1 hour ago, kingdaddy said:

How bout Tim Settle and a 6th for Marriota? 

 

Oh no. I would never sacrifice a proven player, for an unproven player.

Either trade low picks, and/or a player similar to Mariota, as far as talent/developmental stage is concerned.

[PartyPosse]

1 minute ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

Oh no. I would never sacrifice a proven player, for an unproven player.

Either trade low picks, and/or a player similar to Mariota, as far as talent/developmental stage is concerned.

Wait, Settle is more proven than Marcus?