Rookie QB or Veteran QB for "Next Season"??? (I didn't bump this, but I ended up being wrong anyway....)

[Jericho]

I think the question becomes one of value, Would you rather trade a 4th round pick for Mariota or sign Trubisky and use that 4th rounder on a rookie? The draft is a crapshoot too, but if you traded the last two third rounders, it effectively means trading McLaurin and Gibson.

[Jericho]

43 minutes ago, Inigo Montoya said:

Trade for Mariota for our other 3rd at most, 4th ideally bc the raiders need to dump that salary, re do his deal to a $25/$30mil 2 year deal (bc he’s an incentive laden $20mil right now) . Full competition between him and heine and Kyle is the 3 when he’s back and healthy.

 

The main question is why would Mariota agree to that? I'd think you have to give him significant guaranteed money to just give up another year when his current contract could easily pay him $20 million or so. 

 

It seems to be the main problem with suggestions to just renegotiate deals. What's the incentive for the player to agree to a team friendly deal?

[PartyPosse]

6 minutes ago, Jericho said:

 

The main question is why would Mariota agree to that? I'd think you have to give him significant guaranteed money to just give up another year when his current contract could easily pay him $20 million or so. 

 

It seems to be the main problem with suggestions to just renegotiate deals. What's the incentive for the player to agree to a team friendly deal?

Same reason Winston did it in New Orleans, to be part of a winning franchise (weird to say) and hopefully the opportunity to be the answer at QB for a team trending in the right direction. Two years means he could get a monster deal at 30, like what Tannehill did. Guys that think short term about getting paid immediately aren’t really betting on themselves. Despite what they say about Kaepernick, that’s really the final straw that did him in. He had no interest in rebuilding his on-field brand.

[Darth Tater]

A bridge QB should cost nothing in terms of non-cap resources. If we think we need a bridge, roll with Alex (expensive in dollars but doesn't cost resources need to continue building).  I'd also look at Heinike or Allen for even cheaper versions. Problem is that Mariota will cost in terms of resources needed to rebuild and would likely force us to use more cap than other options if you are looking for a bridge. Only way you consider Mariota is if you are really convinced he might be a long-term solution.

[CommanderInTheRye]

3 hours ago, actorguy1 said:

 

 

 

Mark my words: This trade is ABSOLUTELY going to happen.

 

As a matter of journalistic integrity I can’t tell you where my sources are located or who they work for.

 

What I can say with complete honesty is that I am on the toilet as I write this and one of my sources just made a plopping sound as it hit the water. 

 

Seriously, my gut is telling me this gets done.

 

No one is more plugged into Rivera than Micheal Lombardi— he was the first to confirm Rivera was interested in the Redskins job and he was the first to suggest in late September that Rivera could “lose the team” if he doesn’t move on from Haskins.

 

It’s gonna get done folks.

 

(plop!)

 

 

Edited February 13, 2021 by TrancesWithWolves

[kingdaddy]

I'm going to youtube to check out Marriotta highlights right now....I'll be back. Nobody say anything crazy while I'm gone.

[HigSkin]

This is almost painful to watch...

 

Edited February 13, 2021 by HigSkin

[Jericho]

29 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

Same reason Winston did it in New Orleans, to be part of a winning franchise (weird to say) and hopefully the opportunity to be the answer at QB for a team trending in the right direction. Two years means he could get a monster deal at 30, like what Tannehill did. Guys that think short term about getting paid immediately aren’t really betting on themselves. Despite what they say about Kaepernick, that’s really the final straw that did him in. He had no interest in rebuilding his on-field brand.

 

It's not really the same comparison. Winston signed in New Orleans in part because he couldn't get a starting job anywhere. So he took what he hoped would be a good back-up job somewhere.

 

With Mariota, he's already under contract. He has no need to renegotiate. it's either cut him or trade him. As it appears his contract has value, someone will likely trade for him. If any team did trade for him, including Washington, he could just stick with his current contract and make $20 million. He'd also hit free agency next year and probably get even more money. You're suggesting he's going to just voluntarily renegotiate his deal an add another year for $10 million? If he does, he should fire his agent because he could probably get $10 million in 20222 just to be a back-up. That's his worst case scenario. And you're suggesting he's going to do this because Washington is a "winning" franchise. Are you Bruce Allen (because the franchise is winning off the field)? I don't think most of the NFL views Washington as a "winning franchise".

18 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

This is almost painful to watch...

 

 

That's a bit of an overstatement. I mean Corey Davis isn't a bona fide #1, but he's not bad. He'll probably get handsomely paid this offseason. Delanie Walker was a pretty good TE. Mariota overlapped a bunch with Jonnu Smith, who also is solid. And of yeah, there was this guy named AJ Brown (though Mariota didn't overlap with him a ton). Mariota also played with a pretty good RB (I realize he's not much of a receiver, but still) named Derrick Henry. So it's not like her had zero weapons. It wasn't a superstar bunch, but it wasn't scraps either.

[PartyPosse]

4 minutes ago, Jericho said:

 

It's not really the same comparison. Winston signed in New Orleans in part because he couldn't get a starting job anywhere. So he took what he hoped would be a good back-up job somewhere.

 

With Mariota, he's already under contract. He has no need to renegotiate. it's either cut him or trade him. As it appears his contract has value, someone will likely trade for him. If any team did trade for him, including Washington, he could just stick with his current contract and make $20 million. He'd also hit free agency next year and probably get even more money. You're suggesting he's going to just voluntarily renegotiate his deal an add another year for $10 million? If he does, he should fire his agent because he could probably get $10 million in 20222 just to be a back-up. That's his worst case scenario. And you're suggesting he's going to do this because Washington is a "winning" franchise. Are you Bruce Allen (because the franchise is winning off the field)? I don't think most of the NFL views Washington as a "winning franchise".

He’s only got one year at 10 mil left and were not on the hook for anything if he’s cut. 
 

Also, if you don’t think right now Washington isn’t trending upwards then I don’t know what to say. 

[Fat Stupid Loser]

49 minutes ago, TrancesWithWolves said:

 

 

Mark my words: This trade is ABSOLUTELY going to happen.

 

As a matter of journalistic integrity I can’t tell you where my sources are located or who they work for.

 

What I can say with complete honesty is that I am on the toilet as I write this and one of my sources just made a plopping sound as it hit the water. 

 

Seriously, my gut is telling me this gets done.

 

No one is more plugged into Rivera than Micheal Lombardi— he was the first to confirm Rivera was interested in the Redskins job and he was the first to suggest in late September that Rivera could “lose the team” if he doesn’t move on from Haskins.

 

It’s gonna get done folks.

 

(plop!)

 

 

I hope your turd is wrong.  Mariota, holy crap. We have back up QBs on the roster already.

[PartyPosse]

37 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

This is almost painful to watch...

 

Lol I somehow knew Darby was gonna make an appearance.

[kingdaddy]

1 minute ago, Fat Stupid Loser said:

I hope your turd is wrong.  Mariota, holy crap. We have back up QBs on the roster already.

Just watched film on Mariota and he did some nice things with the Raiders....definitely runs a lot but he can be an accurate passer too in the game I watched. He actually plays a lot like Heinicke or vice versa. 

[Darth Tater]

28 minutes ago, Jericho said:

 

It's not really the same comparison. Winston signed in New Orleans in part because he couldn't get a starting job anywhere. So he took what he hoped would be a good back-up job somewhere.

 

 

Also, the year before Winston signed, the backup had been Teddy Bridgewater and Sean had signed a busted up guy with average talent and turned him into Drew 'Fin Brees. Winston was joining with a coach that has a pretty good rep at rehabbing QBs. The starting QB was getting up there and there was no heir-apparent last spring so Winston was going to be in a position to show the coaches he should be the heir-apparent or have a short enough contract to get out. Hell, I would consider taking a 1 year backup spot with NO over a starting op with most other teams in the NFL.

[Jericho]

57 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

He’s only got one year at 10 mil left and were not on the hook for anything if he’s cut. 
 

Also, if you don’t think right now Washington isn’t trending upwards then I don’t know what to say. 

 

Mariota's contract is for ten million in base salary, with another $10 million in incentives. If he starts, he is very likely to hit those incentives barring injury or ineffectiveness. So, doing nothing, Mariota stands a decent chance of making $20 million as is in 2020. And what exactly are you advocating? That Washington trade for Mariota and then cut him before the season when he doesn't accept a crappy renegotiate? That's a big loss for Washington, as it still would have no QB and gave up assets to acquire Mariota.

 

Plus, don't put words in my mouth. I never said Washington isn't trending upwards. You said Mariota would sign a team friendly here in Washington solely because of the "winning culture". I disputed that claim. That is all. I never said anything about Washington as a team or its trends.

Edited February 13, 2021 by Jericho

[RWJ]

The Lombardi stuff was posted two day ago:  Report: Washington 'extremely interested' in QB Marcus Mariota | RSN (nbcsports.com)

[Jericho]

17 minutes ago, Darth Tater said:

Also, the year before Winston signed, the backup had been Teddy Bridgewater and Sean had signed a busted up guy with average talent and turned him into Drew 'Fin Brees. Winston was joining with a coach that has a pretty good rep at rehabbing QBs. The starting QB was getting up there and there was no heir-apparent last spring so Winston was going to be in a position to show the coaches he should be the heir-apparent or have a short enough contract to get out. Hell, I would consider taking a 1 year backup spot with NO over a starting op with most other teams in the NFL.

 

I don't dispute what you're saying (though I think you're underselling Bridgewater significantly), but I'm not sure your point either. Winston was a free agent last year. Literally no team was willing to give him a starting job or pay him starter's money. So he took a back-up job. And yes, I agree being a back-up in New Orleans is a pretty good gig. As back-up jobs go, it's got to be near the top. But I'm not sure how any of that has any relevancy on why Mariota would tear up his existing contract to sign an extremely team friendly deal here in Washington. Mariota wouldn't be a free agent, the move makes almost no sense for the player, and Washington certainly isn't New Orleans in terms of QB destinations for many of the reasons you just mentioned.

[PartyPosse]

13 minutes ago, Jericho said:

 

Mariota's contract is for ten million in base salary, with another $10 million in incentives. If he starts, he is very likely to hit those incentives barring injury or ineffectiveness. So, doing nothing, Mariota stands a decent chance of making $20 million as is in 2020. And what exactly are you advocating? That Washington trade for Mariota and then cut him before the season when he doesn't accept a crappy renegotiate? That's a big loss for Washington, as it still would have no QB and gave up assets to acquire Mariota.

 

Plus, don't put words in my mouth. I never said Washington isn't trending upwards. You said Mariota would sign a team friendly here in Washington solely because of the "winning culture". I disputed that claim. That is all. I never said anything about Washington as a team or its trends.

If Heinecke had a good camp then theoretically yeah, they could cut Mariota or try and trade him as well. My point being is there is no reason Mariota wouldn’t want to extend any contract. No player wants to go into the last year of their deal without the possibility of starting. 

[Number 44]

9 minutes ago, Jericho said:

 

Mariota's contract is for ten million in base salary, with another $10 million in incentives. If he starts, he is very likely to hit those incentives barring injury or ineffectiveness. So, doing nothing, Mariota stands a decent chance of making $20 million as is in 2020. And what exactly are you advocating? That Washington trade for Mariota and then cut him before the season when he doesn't accept a crappy renegotiate? That's a big loss for Washington, as it still would have no QB and gave up assets to acquire Mariota.

 

Plus, don't put words in my mouth. I never said Washington isn't trending upwards. You said Mariota would sign a team friendly here in Washington solely because of the "winning culture". I disputed that claim. That is all. I never said anything about Washington as a team or its trends.

Incentives don't affect the cap hit.  If he achieves all the incentives, he's played well.  Not seeing the big downside you seem to be seeing.  To me, the key is holding the trade cost down.  Give the Raiders a 4th round pick, tops.  Your concern about the money he makes doesn't strike me as being a big deal at all to the WFT.  Now, to the Raiders, $11.35M is an awful bug cap hit for a back-up QB, so a 4th rounder and no cap hit should make them happy.

[Jericho]

26 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

If Heinecke had a good camp then theoretically yeah, they could cut Mariota or try and trade him as well. My point being is there is no reason Mariota wouldn’t want to extend any contract. No player wants to go into the last year of their deal without the possibility of starting. 

 

Lots of players don't want to extend their contracts. Mainly because they're not getting what they think they are worth. Kirk Cousins is a great example. If everyone extend, there would literally be no free agents. The point remains that if you want Mariota to extend, you have to offer him something. If his current deal likely pays him $20 million, you need to give him something more. It's in his interest to play out the deal and seek a big pay day. But I would say if Washington trades a 4th rounder (or higher) for Mariota and then cuts him before the season, they done messed up.

[Jericho]

26 minutes ago, Number 44 said:

Incentives don't affect the cap hit.  If he achieves all the incentives, he's played well.  Not seeing the big downside you seem to be seeing.  To me, the key is holding the trade cost down.  Give the Raiders a 4th round pick, tops.  Your concern about the money he makes doesn't strike me as being a big deal at all to the WFT.  Now, to the Raiders, $11.35M is an awful bug cap hit for a back-up QB, so a 4th rounder and no cap hit should make them happy.

 

Not sure what you are advocating for here. You seem to have missed the entire point of the post. My post was in response to another poster suggesting to trade for Mariota and then sign him to a team friendly deal. My post was about the fact there's no incentive for Mariota to do that. He's not going to sign a team friendly deal as suggested. He's current contract pays him adequately and he's not just going to add an additional year for well below market value (for a starter).

 

I made no claims about "concern" about the money and I'm not sure what you're responding to. I agree that if you trade for Mariota the compensation should be fairly low. And realistically he'll play out his existing contract unless you want to give him a ton more money upfront. Which Washington has little incentive to do.

 

Also incentives do count against the cap. It just might end up being next year

[Darth Tater]

40 minutes ago, Jericho said:

 

I don't dispute what you're saying (though I think you're underselling Bridgewater significantly), but I'm not sure your point either. Winston was a free agent last year. Literally no team was willing to give him a starting job or pay him starter's money. So he took a back-up job. And yes, I agree being a back-up in New Orleans is a pretty good gig. As back-up jobs go, it's got to be near the top. But I'm not sure how any of that has any relevancy on why Mariota would tear up his existing contract to sign an extremely team friendly deal here in Washington. Mariota wouldn't be a free agent, the move makes almost no sense for the player, and Washington certainly isn't New Orleans in terms of QB destinations for many of the reasons you just mentioned.

I was supporting your position but adding the fact that Sean has a better rep a taking a QB on the ropes and turning them into something and that describes what Winston was. Only said that he traded for Bridgewater, said nothing else. Sean had also turned a busted up (torn shoulder), average talent at  QB (Brees' play was why SD had the opportunity to draft when they did and Brees only had one real good season at SD anyway, he was mostly mediocre, there was a reason that he didn't have much of a market even before the injury) into a HOFer. Brees was just about done and there was little reason for Winston not to think he could establish himself as the starter in NO in '21 (or leave if he got the op elsewhere). Even if Winston had other choices, this would have been his best choice anyway. We don't have a staff that has the kind of rep SP has and are definitely not a plug n' play QB away.

[Number 44]

6 minutes ago, Jericho said:

Not sure what you are advocating for here.

I said point blank offer no more than a 4th round pick.  Odd that you were confused by that.  Your posts, however, were not very clear to me.  You seemed to be concerned by the money, as it dominated your posts - hence my response.  As I stated, the money would seem to be more of a factor to the Raiders than WFT, IMO.  If you weren't concerned with the money... umm... okay?

[Koolblue13]

5 hours ago, kingdaddy said:

How bout Tim Settle and a 6th for Marriotta? 

I don't think 2 6th rounders is going to do it.

[dswerdlw]

I'd like to bring in Mariota for a reasonable price. I wonder if the Raiders would have any interest in Landon Collins in addition to a mid-round pick for Mariota. Perhaps those who know more about the Raiders' confidence in Johnathan Abrams could weigh in on that possibility. Like most fans, I suppose, I prefer Curl as our strong safety over Collins, and I'd like to see us dump as much of Collins' contract as possible. Maybe Collins' injury makes this trade impossible, but one can hope.

[seantaylor=god]

27 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I don't think 2 6th rounders is going to do it.

I don’t really think Mariotta is going to take even that much. Maybe a 4th? A player? He’s a failed starter who showed some promise as a backup and he’s young. I guess if another team thinks he’s going to be their starter he could get something like a 2nd. I just think that’s nuts. My price would be a 4th or maybe some player combo or swap.