Rookie QB or Veteran QB for "Next Season"??? (I didn't bump this, but I ended up being wrong anyway....)

[bakedtater1]

24 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

 

 

3426 yards, 26 TD, 9 INts, 61% completion ... 60 rushes, 350 yards, 2 TDs

 

 

 

 

This combined with our defense=games won?

[bakedtater1]

So I'm curious with the signing on heineke does that mean theres no chance the wft goes after wilson now?..what would it take to land wilson?..the seachickens aren't shopping him so I'd imagine it would take a **** ton to even get them considering the possibility. 

[Llevron]

9 minutes ago, bakedtater1 said:

So I'm curious with the signing on heineke does that mean theres no chance the wft goes after wilson now?..what would it take to land wilson?..the seachickens aren't shopping him so I'd imagine it would take a **** ton to even get them considering the possibility. 

No one is getting Wilson and the Heinicke deal prohibits nothing realistically. 

[heyholetsgogrant]

 

Eagles trying to do some reverse **** to get he market back up for Wentz. The Eagles Reddit is pretty hilarious, seems the fan base is split between Wentz and Hurts.

[Thinking Skins]

13 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

As for Haskins.  He said it wasn't that the scouts disliked him but saw him as a 2nd-3rd rounder, not a first rounder.  Jay among others thought he'd fall to that range too in the draft. He knew he said 6 months before the draft they'd take Haskins because  Dan would comment repeatedly during the college season that he was the best college player. 

I'm glad he's open about this. I got the feeling that Haskins could have been a good player. People harped on when he was drafted and Dan's input, but i still think he could have worked with a Callahan type play caller. But as Gruden said the experience was a major factor as was his attitude and prep, which it seems they knew about. 

 

The problem is that the media, including Keim and Sheehan had it as an anti Haskins party in the Front Office and it was like he was being forced down their throats and they just wanted to make him fail. But Haskins does make me think twice about other non mobile qbs with little experience in the draft line Jones

[CurseReversed]

10 hours ago, Thinking Skins said:

One thing that scares me about Mac Jones is his reliance on Smith. Dude had 117 receptions this year. The next guy had 55. That's more than twice as many catches going to his number 1 vs the next guy. And this is Alabama, not Duke or UNC so the number 2 is a good guy. How many of those balls are forced? How many were just great catches? How many were because he was just open.

 

In contrast, Mond's top three guys had 46, 43 and 29 catches. Newman's guys had 73, 66 and 35. That doesn't mean they can read a defense but it gives me hope that he can come off the number one and go somewhere else when need be. 

 

I really wonder how much of Jones's highlight reel is him going to Smith. 

That is a good question.  Another one could be, how much of Smith's highlight reel is from good passes from Jones?  To be fair Smith probably would be amazing with a lot of Qb's, he is that good, but when I watch a lot of those plays it looks like a little bit of both to me.  I see a dominant receiver getting consistently well delivered balls. This is especially apparent in the short game where Jones quick release and excellent touch makes Smith all the more deadly.    When I wonder what It would it would look like if a great QB and great WR were able to play together on a dominant team, I look at the season Smith and Alabama had, and think....thats probably what it looks like. 

 

[ODU AGGIE]

10 hours ago, skinny21 said:

I see your logic and mostly agree with it.  Not sure Allen would be tradeable due to having to pass a medical, but I could be wrong about how that works.  As to your last sentence, I think they’d bring in a rookie as well.  If it’s Lance or Jones, maybe they either start Allen on PUP or cut one of the three (although there’s also the newer PS rules I’m not too clear on).  We’ll see.

You could be right, but if we don't get Carr, some decisions will have to be made before draft day to clarify whether or not to draft a potentially franchise QB. First, all current evidence is that Allen will be fully able to go by April. Second, we must have a definitive statement on Smith's health and possible retirement. If he does not retire, sticks with his position that he is ready to come back and is deemed ready to go, that means we already have three fully serviceable QBs on the roster, and I think the Team would be better served by using that 19th pick somewhere else other than QB. WR or LB come to mind, and some possibilities include:

Kadarius Toney, WT, Florida

Zaven Collins, LB, Tulsa

Nick Bolton, LB, Missouri

Joseph Ossai, LB Texas

Ja’Mar Chase, WR, LSU

DeVlnta Smith, WR, Alabama

Terrace Marshall Jr. WR LSU

 That said, if the evaluation is made that a QB must be drafted, then they have to trade up. I just don't see us drafting someone who is nothing more than a body to compete with the current roster QBs.

[heyholetsgogrant]

2 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

2 2nds from the obvious front runner for the player was huge for us and every other QB thirsty team on the ledge trying to jump and we owe them for that. 

I was reading online two 2nd round picks are worth a first?  (assuming the 2nd's are high enough) But it seems like 1st round picks (even late 1st round picks) are increasing in value every year because of QB need and 1st round picks tend to hit more than any round in the draft. . Think Lamar Jackson (32nd overall).

Edited February 14, 2021 by heyholetsgogrant

[Thinking Skins]

44 minutes ago, CurseReversed said:

That is a good question.  Another one could be, how much of Smith's highlight reel is from good passes from Jones?  To be fair Smith probably would be amazing with a lot of Qb's, he is that good, but when I watch a lot of those plays it looks like a little bit of both to me.  I see a dominant receiver getting consistently well delivered balls. This is especially apparent in the short game where Jones quick release and excellent touch makes Smith all the more deadly.    When I wonder what It would it would look like if a great QB and great WR were able to play together on a dominant team, I look at the season Smith and Alabama had, and think....thats probably what it looks like. 

 

That's a good point but it still comes to question why Jones would only make Smith's numbers look good and not all of his WRs. When I see aQB rely heavily on one WR, it normally means that WR is beating coverage easily. If a QB can throw guys open they can throw almost all their guys open. In 3 not seeing that with the Jones stats 

[Number 44]

2 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

That's a good point but it still comes to question why Jones would only make Smith's numbers look good and not all of his WRs. When I see aQB rely heavily on one WR, it normally means that WR is beating coverage easily. If a QB can throw guys open they can throw almost all their guys open. In 3 not seeing that with the Jones stats 

My guess is you haven't seen a lot of Alabama games.  

[bakedtater1]

1 hour ago, Llevron said:

No one is getting Wilson and the Heinicke deal prohibits nothing realistically. 

This is what I think..him and the team will work stuff out and he'll retire a seahawk........hoooowwwwwwever maybe theres a chance wilson really wants to move on and Seattle sees a chance to cash in big time and makes the move.

[kingdaddy]

17 hours ago, Jericho said:

 

Lots of players don't want to extend their contracts. Mainly because they're not getting what they think they are worth. Kirk Cousins is a great example. If everyone extend, there would literally be no free agents. The point remains that if you want Mariota to extend, you have to offer him something. If his current deal likely pays him $20 million, you need to give him something more. It's in his interest to play out the deal and seek a big pay day. But I would say if Washington trades a 4th rounder (or higher) for Mariota and then cuts him before the season, they done messed up.

IF we trade for Mariota there's gonna be one hell of a QB battle in camp, assuming Allen comes back to. All 3 of them have similar attributes....

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Thinking Skins said:

I'm glad he's open about this. I got the feeling that Haskins could have been a good player. People harped on when he was drafted and Dan's input, but i still think he could have worked with a Callahan type play caller. But as Gruden said the experience was a major factor as was his attitude and prep, which it seems they knew about. 

 

The problem is that the media, including Keim and Sheehan had it as an anti Haskins party in the Front Office and it was like he was being forced down their throats and they just wanted to make him fail. But Haskins does make me think twice about other non mobile qbs with little experience in the draft line Jones

 

I didn't like Haskins before the draft but even if I did I want who the FO wants.  Dan shouldn't override anyone.  It doesn't matter to me if Dan shared the same man crush on a player as I do, or if Mel Kiper agrees with him, I don't want him making the call.   It's a screwed up process if Dan can causally watch Haskins, soak up all the hype about said player and just say that's who we are taking.   I'd add Dan's instincts on his man crushes are terrible.  The fact that he gets into the hype of media draft talking heads also explains his man crush years back on Brady Quinn.  Thankfully he was talked out of that man crush according to a story I read. 

 

As for Dan, I liked Haskins too when I watched him casually, I noticed Riddick falling all over him like he's Peyton Manning, too.    But then on the urging of a regular on the draft thread, I was encouraged to really study Haskins and ignore the hype and highlights.  So i did, and my opinion did a 180 on Haskins and then turned against drafting the guy.  And I am obviously no scout but just a dummy layman.  Can you imagine guys like Kyle Smith who do this for a living being ignored because Dan gets off on the fact that the dude went to his son's school and he's hyped by the mock drafters? 

 

The idea that Jay was cool with Haskins if it was taken in the 2nd or third because he grouped him with that next tier of projects isn't some small thing.  Taking a 2nd-3rd routed rated prospect at 15 is a bit crazy.  hopefully Dan learns from this but i've said stuff like that before and he never seems to learn. 

 

 

 

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/washingtonfootball/news/vomit-3-better-choices-inside-the-wft-drafting-of-dwayne-haskins

ESPN's Diana Russini reminds us that a coach was literally sick to his stomach and ready to throw up at the thought of Haskins. To some, that seemed a laughable exaggeration, but we're told that on-the-verge-of-vomit situation was indeed the case.

 

What we have also heard is this: As the Washington pick at No. 15 drew closer, there was not much discussion and banter in the tense war room. Kyle Smith, then the director of college scouting and now the vice president of player personnel, had three players to select at the Washington spot, according to sources.

Three names. "Haskins'' was not among them.

 

Montez Sweat, who Washington would later trade back up in the first round for with Indianapolis, was one of the players. Sweat later cost a 2019 second-rounder and then what turned out to be the No. 34 overall pick this year to move back into the first round. 

What's more is, Smith apparently waited and waited as the clock and picks started to inch closer to Washington's choice ... and then he started to take some command of the room.

 

Smith started to ask questions on what the choice was going to be. Sources described to us a tense silence. Smith asked the room specifically: Is the organization really thinking of taking Haskins?

 

At that point, one voice chimed in. It was the owner's voice, confirming that Haskins was going to be the choice.

His choice.

 

More silence ensued in the moments around the pick and with the pick made, Smith pushed himself up from the table and unloaded on the room - a speech that was described as "fiery and passionate'' about the pick and how much he disagreed with the selection.

 

Smith then sat down. Some in the room that night have told us since that they thought he would be fired immediately. Maybe he sat down just in time to retain his job?

 

Last January, coach Ron Rivera engineered Kyle Smith's promotion. Since then, Rivera has been the singular power-broker in the organization, gaining the respect of all, even Snyder ... and this week, flexing his muscle by singularly making the decision to cut Haskins.

Dan Snyder realized too late that his decision was wrong - and that the other people in that room, Smith and others, were right. Any one of the other three choices on the WFT board would've been superior to Dwayne Haskins. And any scout/coach reaction to a pick, would've been superior to vomiting.

 

 

Edited February 14, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[kingdaddy]

5 minutes ago, bakedtater1 said:

This is what I think..him and the team will work stuff out and he'll retire a seahawk........hoooowwwwwwever maybe theres a chance wilson really wants to move on and Seattle sees a chance to cash in big time and makes the move.

I noted this about 10 days ago, there is a legit chance that Russell Wilson does not sign a new deal with Seattle when his contract comes up an both sides know it. This was reported in a story on NFL Network one of the Sunday's in the Fall. I was surprised to hear it but supposedly Wilson is not overly thrilled with how he's being used in Seattle and will look to move on when he can. Based on that story, if it's true, I would suspect Wilson will be dealt one of these years if Seattle is convinced he's not gonna sign a new deal.

[Skinsinparadise]

I am going to get to rewatching this eventually.  As i tell the big Heinicke people here from time to time if there is an argument about still chasing another QB -- I want what Rivera wants.  If he's not satisfied with the QB room than I am not satisfied.  But you won't find me flipping out if they roll with a 2nd-tier rehab type of player like Mariota and we have a QB competition as long as we get that option cheap.  

 

I am not a Darnold guy to say the least but much of that is because of the high price it likely will take to get him.  I like Mariota better than Darnold and it looks like he could be had cheaper. 

 

 

 

[Thinking Skins]

30 minutes ago, Number 44 said:

My guess is you haven't seen a lot of Alabama games.  

I've seen zero. Normally I'm not a college ball guy because the games are so imbalanced and the talent is so unequal (like rarely do you get a good DL against a good OL or a good WR against a good CB. Its normally these two scrubs going agaist one another or one guy who is a beast against somebody who's soon to be working at home depot, which is how most of the Alambma games I've watched have looked. But I'm doing a statistical analysis to see where it leads me. Hopefully it doesn't differ too much from the main talking heads and people who study film say. 

[Blanka]

Any worries Kyle Allen may start camp on PUP? 

[Skinsinparadise]

From the Athletic

 

 

[DWinzit]

1 minute ago, Blanka said:

Any worries Kyle Allen may start camp on PUP? 

It was a concern but reports now seem to be trending to him being fine.

If the reports stayed the way they were with him missing time, having an injury prone Heinicke and Smith, that's tough to contend with. Same really goes with Mariota as he gets dinged too

[PartyPosse]

1 hour ago, heyholetsgogrant said:

 

Eagles trying to do some reverse **** to get he market back up for Wentz. The Eagles Reddit is pretty hilarious, seems the fan base is split between Wentz and Hurts.

“Eagles aren’t in a hurry to trade Wentz because they know when he comes back he’ll win the starting job and throw for 6,000 yards and 50 touchdowns and will then demand a pay cut to help the team win because he’s the perfect teammate.”

[Thinking Skins]

Here are some other guys who relied on their number one like Mac Jones - Jamis Winston and Mitch Tribusky. One is mobile and the other is a pocket passer. Joe Burrow had a WR with 111 catches but his number 2 had 84. Carr had a number 1 with 131 but his number 2 had 100. 

 

These are just numbers so they're hard to interpret. Its also important to understand how many balls are being thrown in general. For instance, Carr ran the ball 31.8 times per game which is much less than Burrow's 33.9 and  Jones's 36.6. Not sure what this all means if anything at all, but its interesting to look at. 

[Skinsinparadise]

3 hours ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 Heinkeke has thrown fewer than 100 passes in the NFL where MM has started for years. To say we know the same about 2 at this point in time is nonsense.  3rd round picks are damned valuable, they can provide all sorts of possible solutions.  

 

My point is if they landed Mariota and he beats Heinicke in camp -- especially considering Heinicke knows the offense already -- so be it, I'd find it telling.  I don't see that as a concern as for Heinicke's development.  And to me its on point that Mariota is actually even younger than Heinicke.  This isn't about some old crusty veteran duking it out versus some raw rookie. If Heinicke was some young pup and was 21, then I'd be with you.  But if Mariota beat Heinicke in camp the odds would be pretty good it would be because Mariota is actually the better QB. 

 

And as for maybe missing out on the future, the argument probably could be made stronger for Mariota in that case than it would for Heinicke if Mariota lost the camp battle.  It would be Mariota with the pedigree, high first rounder, 4.5 speed, who actually had to learn a new offense during a limited COVID-19 off season, and is the younger QB.

 

But if you believe big in Heinicke and aren't that enamored with Mariota, why sweat it?   Heinicke should win the camp battle in that case.  I honestly wouldn't care who wins the QB competition.  I want the best guy to play whomever that person is. 

 

I probably should stop though talking about Mariota like he's here.  Jinxing it.   

Edited February 14, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

We suspected such so no big news

 

 

 

 

[ODU AGGIE]

39 minutes ago, Blanka said:

Any worries Kyle Allen may start camp on PUP? 

Last report I read was that he would be fully ready to go by April.

[88Comrade2000]

If the Team viewed Heinicke as the starter; then we wouldn’t be looking at other QBs.

 

That isn’t the case. I think they know what they already have in TH and that’s he a backup QB that can fill in if needed. 
 

They will continue to search to find that long term QB.

 

Alex will not be on the roster, come training camp. He will be cut, if he hasn’t retired.

 

If we find a stopgap QB like Mariotta; then those 3 will compete in camp for the job. The winner will be the starter.

 

If we draft a QB, then Kyle or Taylor will be the starter until the rookie QB is ready.