Rookie QB or Veteran QB for "Next Season"??? (I didn't bump this, but I ended up being wrong anyway....)

[mhd24]

30 minutes ago, method man said:

Trading a 1st + paying Orlando Brown elite money in a draft loaded with tackles would be stupidity

Yup.  We need cheap young talent

[Malapropismic Depository]

8 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

Yup.  We need cheap young talent

 

39 minutes ago, method man said:

Trading a 1st + paying Orlando Brown elite money in a draft loaded with tackles would be stupidity

 

Unless they're talking about Orlando Brown, Sr.

He would be really cheap.

[Koolblue13]

5 hours ago, RWJ said:

A God Driven heathy family life is more important than money.  It's his choice.  He's young enough to go to work or start his own business. 

Are you insane? He's not going to die playing football and if he lost his leg, he could get robotic legs at this point. Start a business? He's rich enough to run for president. 

 

He loves playing football and the day he stops, it's over. Why would he come back from all that just to retire?

[TheShredder]

2 hours ago, PartyPosse said:

Yeah! Screw having any money left for any future free agents of ours! Those three would cost about 35 million (you would have to sign Brown to an extension almost immediately.

Probably closer to 25M than 35M but you're right as they'll have to settle for 1 of them.  I think I like the slightly cheaper Curtis Samuel fit and Orlando Brown trade and extension.  I think that's possible. 

[TheShredder]

1 hour ago, method man said:

Trading a 1st + paying Orlando Brown elite money in a draft loaded with tackles would be stupidity

I still think in this case picking a rookie is still a gamble vs proven talent.  I'd imagine it would be debated by them and hope they make the right decision.  It would be awesome to have an ear inside those closed door debates.  I'd pay to watch that movie!

[Skinsinparadise]

New Keim Podcast

 

Dude who covered Carr: Carr is oddly polarizing with Raider fans.  He doesn't think they will trade Carr.  When he covered the Raiders when Del Rio was there, Del Rio and Carr were very tight. 

 

Dude who covered Mariota:  Raiders used read option with Mariota and other plays that exploited his mobilty -- different from Carr.   Impressed how he played versus SD in a short week to prepare and he knew the offense and was ready.  They could trade him but didn't say that -- Keim didn't push the point with him. 

 

Dude who covered Darnold.  Thinks they could trade him.  Thinks some around the league still believe in him because he was taken high in the draft years ago and because he wasn't well coached.  Decision making is sketchy, locks on the first read, doesn't see the field well, doesn't read defenses well.   He's a nice guy, quiet, really laid back -- some don't like that type of personality in their QB.  If you want charisma and personality and a leader -- he's not your guy.   He covered Fitzpatrick who was a vocal leader.  Darnold more blends in with the crowd, not a leader type.   He said he didn't really even have a few good games in a row.  His ceiling is the middle of the pack 14-18 type QB, seemed skepitical he hits that ceiling.

 

If he were another team no way he'd trade a low first rounder for Darnold, he'd offer a 3rd tops but he thinks they will get at least a 2nd for him.   He wouldn't pick up the 5th year of his contract if he traded for him.

Edited February 15, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[PartyPosse]

20 minutes ago, TheShredder said:

Probably closer to 25M than 35M but you're right as they'll have to settle for 1 of them.  I think I like the slightly cheaper Curtis Samuel fit and Orlando Brown trade and extension.  I think that's possible. 

I imagine it's about 10 per WR a year and since Orlando is convinced he's a LT forever now, he'll want to be paid as such. 15 would be a safe estimate imo, but maybe i'm wrong? 

[mistertim]

I love how we're talking about stocking up and spending a bunch of money on big time receivers and potentially trading for an elite OT...while all we have at QB is a stable of rando UDFAs (one of whom is currently rehabbing from a major injury, another who has a history of injuries, and a 3rd who couldn't even crack 3rd string) and an Alex Smith who also can't stay healthy.

 

What big name WRs are seriously going to come here when those are the only guys we have on the roster to the throw the ball to them? Answer: someone who only wants a big ass payday.

Edited February 15, 2021 by mistertim

[bowhunter]

24 minutes ago, TheShredder said:

Probably closer to 25M than 35M but you're right as they'll have to settle for 1 of them.  I think I like the slightly cheaper Curtis Samuel fit and Orlando Brown trade and extension.  I think that's possible. 

My only concern would be the loss of 2 assets. Lose your 1st rd pick AND give up salary cap space. I'd love to add Brown to the team, but if RR thinks we could use that 19 pick on a LT of similar caliber then I'd rather keep the pick. Plus, I'd love to see if a stud LB falls to that spot. Honestly our LB core needs more help than our OL currently does.

[kingdaddy]

12 minutes ago, mistertim said:

I love how we're talking about stocking up and spending a bunch of money on big time receivers and potentially trading for an elite OT...while all we have at QB is a stable of rando UDFAs (one of whom is currently rehabbing from a major injury, another who has a history of injuries, and a 3rd who couldn't even crack 3rd string) and an Alex Smith who also can't stay healthy.

 

What big name WRs are seriously going to come here when those are the only guys we have on the roster to the throw the ball to them? Answer: someone who only wants a big ass payday.

Yep, and that's the business of the NFL. The idea is to hit free agency and get paid, you know that. If Green Bay offers ARob 80 mil and we offer 100 mil I'd bet it all that ARob takes the 100 mil figuring he's gotta cash in while healthy. The rest will take care of itself. Big ass payday with Heinicke or less money to play with Aaron Rodgers? Older guys shoot for the ring, younger free agents go for the $$$$. Show me the money. 

[mistertim]

1 minute ago, kingdaddy said:

Yep, and that's the business of the NFL. The idea is to hit free agency and get paid, you know that. If Green Bay offers ARob 80 mil and we offer 100 mil I'd bet it all that ARob takes the 100 mil figuring he's gotta cash in while healthy. The rest will take care of itself. Big ass payday with Heinicke or less money to play with Aaron Rodgers? Older guys shoot for the ring, younger free agents go for the $$$$. Show me the money. 

 

Sure, that's the business of the NFL in a sense, but I'm worried the bolded part will possibly involve ARob (or any guy who we throw a boatload of money at to convince him to come here) cashing in and then checking out after he gets his money. Because it's not like we're SB contenders and he may have nobody to throw the ball to him. So he gets a ton of guaranteed money and then can just coast.

 

As far as the 80 mil vs 100 mil, I think it depends on what kind of dude he is. If he gets 10-20 million less but is going to a team that's a perennial SB contender with a HOF QB throwing the ball to him he may just decide that he'd rather have that than a bit of extra money (it's not like 80-90 million is anything to sneeze at). 

 

I'm honestly wary of any WR taking a huge payday to come to a team without a decent QB.

[clskinsfan]

30 minutes ago, mistertim said:

I love how we're talking about stocking up and spending a bunch of money on big time receivers and potentially trading for an elite OT...while all we have at QB is a stable of rando UDFAs (one of whom is currently rehabbing from a major injury, another who has a history of injuries, and a 3rd who couldn't even crack 3rd string) and an Alex Smith who also can't stay healthy.

 

What big name WRs are seriously going to come here when those are the only guys we have on the roster to the throw the ball to them? Answer: someone who only wants a big ass payday.

There is some interest in coming to the NFC East I am sure. DC is a big market. And the entire division is garbage. Would make a playoff run easier for any potential FA. We won 7 games last year without a long term option at QB. The defense is solid. There is a lot of upside in helping build this program IMO. 

[kingdaddy]

6 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Sure, that's the business of the NFL in a sense, but I'm worried the bolded part will possibly involve ARob (or any guy who we throw a boatload of money at to convince him to come here) cashing in and then checking out after he gets his money. Because it's not like we're SB contenders and he may have nobody to throw the ball to him. So he gets a ton of guaranteed money and then can just coast.

 

As far as the 80 mil vs 100 mil, I think it depends on what kind of dude he is. If he gets 10-20 million less but is going to a team that's a perennial SB contender with a HOF QB throwing the ball to him he may just decide that he'd rather have that than a bit of extra money (it's not like 80-90 million is anything to sneeze at). 

 

I'm honestly wary of any WR taking a huge payday to come to a team without a decent QB.

Again, that's the risk of paying any player, God knows we know that (Haynesworth).....ARob seems like a baller though but what do I know? The one thing you should be confident in is that RR isn't gonna bring in any dogs or guys who want a free pass. Look at how he handled Trent Williams. We're gonna have to trust that our staff knows what they're doing.

[mistertim]

5 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

There is some interest in coming to the NFC East I am sure. DC is a big market. And the entire division is garbage. Would make a playoff run easier for any potential FA. We won 7 games last year without a long term option at QB. The defense is solid. There is a lot of upside in helping build this program IMO. 

 

I'm sure there's some interest, and DC IS a big market, but IMO "the entire division is garbage" isn't exactly a hot selling point. Because all it likely means is that a mediocre to poor team may have a chance of sneaking into the playoffs every so often (see 2020) but then not actually going very far.

 

As far as a WR coming here to help build a team, my guess is the first thing they'd ask (after naming a potential price) is "I need to know what your plan is for QB before I agree to come here". As a top WR that's certainly what I'd want to know if I'm thinking of coming to a situation like we have. 

 

That's why I said I'd be wary of any WR who takes a huge payday with a team with no current long term answer at QB...to me that almost by definition means he just cares about the money. That or he may be a baller but might become disgruntled once he goes for a while without many touches.

[RWJ]

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

Are you insane? He's not going to die playing football and if he lost his leg, he could get robotic legs at this point. Start a business? He's rich enough to run for president. 

 

He loves playing football and the day he stops, it's over. Why would he come back from all that just to retire?

I will tell you like I told another poster that replied back.  I put in this post:  "It's his choice"

[mistertim]

11 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

Again, that's the risk of paying any player, God knows we know that (Haynesworth).....ARob seems like a baller though but what do I know? The one thing you should be confident in is that RR isn't gonna bring in any dogs or guys who want a free pass. Look at how he handled Trent Williams. We're gonna have to trust that our staff knows what they're doing.

 

Fair point, and I'm sure RR is a much better judge of character than Vinny and Jim Zorn. But currently it seems like what this staff is mainly doing is looking for a QB, not necessarily a huge name WR. But I suppose anything is possible. 

[kingdaddy]

1 minute ago, mistertim said:

 

I'm sure there's some interest, and DC IS a big market, but IMO "the entire division is garbage" isn't exactly a hot selling point. Because all it likely means is that a mediocre to poor team may have a chance of sneaking into the playoffs every so often (see 2020) but then not actually going very far.

 

As far as a WR coming here to help build a team, my guess is the first thing they'd ask (after naming a potential price) is "I need to know what your plan is for QB before I agree to come here". As a top WR that's certainly what I'd want to know if I'm thinking of coming to a situation like we have. 

 

That's why I said I'd be wary of any WR who takes a huge payday with a team with no current long term answer at QB...to me that almost by definition means he just cares about the money. That or he may be a baller but might become disgruntled once he goes for a while without many touches.

All I can say is keep the faith, if we end up going with Allen and Heinicke  they have both shown that they can play. I just watched the 10 minute highlight video on Heiny vs TB in the wildcard playoff game and he really did a LOT of great things. He sees the field well, showed great pocket awareness, runs well and was very accurate for the most part. We've seen Allen and he played well when he was in there too. I also think there's one more QB left to enter the mix, whoever that may be. Also, I'm sure players are looking at a lot more than just who the QB is....things like age of the roster, friends they may have on the team, head coach and assistants, location, culture, etc.....

[86 Snyder]

22 minutes ago, RWJ said:

I will tell you like I told another poster that replied back.  I put in this post:  "It's his choice"

 

Which you say while admonishing Alex for wanting to play football lol.

[Ball Security]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

New Keim Podcast

 

Dude who covered Carr: Carr is oddly polarizing with Raider fans.  He doesn't think they will trade Carr.  When he covered the Raiders when Del Rio was there, Del Rio and Carr were very tight. 

 

Dude who covered Mariota:  Raiders used read option with Mariota and other plays that exploited his mobilty -- different from Carr.   Impressed how he played versus SD in a short week to prepare and he knew the offense and was ready.  They could trade him but didn't say that -- Keim didn't push the point with him. 

 

Dude who covered Darnold.  Thinks they could trade him.  Thinks some around the league still believe in him because he was taken high in the draft years ago and because he wasn't well coached.  Decision making is sketchy, locks on the first read, doesn't see the field well, doesn't read defenses well.   He's a nice guy, quiet, really laid back -- some don't like that type of personality in their QB.  If you want charisma and personality and a leader -- he's not your guy.   He covered Fitzpatrick who was a vocal leader.  Darnold more blends in with the crowd, not a leader type.   He said he didn't really even have a few good games in a row.  His ceiling is the middle of the pack 14-18 type QB, seemed skepitical he hits that ceiling.

 

If he were another team no way he'd trade a low first rounder for Darnold, he'd offer a 3rd tops but he thinks they will get at least a 2nd for him.   He wouldn't pick up the 5th year of his contract if he traded for him.

Wasn’t that the knock on Herbert coming out?  That he was too laid back and couldn’t command a huddle.  

[mistertim]

37 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

All I can say is keep the faith, if we end up going with Allen and Heinicke  they have both shown that they can play. I just watched the 10 minute highlight video on Heiny vs TB in the wildcard playoff game and he really did a LOT of great things. He sees the field well, showed great pocket awareness, runs well and was very accurate for the most part. We've seen Allen and he played well when he was in there too. I also think there's one more QB left to enter the mix, whoever that may be. Also, I'm sure players are looking at a lot more than just who the QB is....things like age of the roster, friends they may have on the team, head coach and assistants, location, culture, etc.....

 

I appreciate the faith, but I think while it's fair to say we know Allen can play, it's a bit much to say we know the same about Heinicke. Allen has started 19 games in his career. He's shown that he's decent but nothing special. Heinicke has literally started 2 games in his entire career. In one he was awful, and in the other he played well. I know that's bordering on sacrilege to the Heinicke faithful, but it's just the truth. Yes he did some good things, but it was one game. And there's no way I'm hanging my hat on one game for a QB...and it fairness it seems like RR isn't either.

[Koolblue13]

2 hours ago, RWJ said:

I will tell you like I told another poster that replied back.  I put in this post:  "It's his choice"

3 hours ago, TheShredder said:

I still think in this case picking a rookie is still a gamble vs proven talent.  I'd imagine it would be debated by them and hope they make the right decision.  It would be awesome to have an ear inside those closed door debates.  I'd pay to watch that movie!

Instead of risking draft picks on the draft, we could trade them for proven players that just need a big contract. We've never tried that angle, right?

[Skinsinparadise]

48 minutes ago, Ball Security said:

Wasn’t that the knock on Herbert coming out?  That he was too laid back and couldn’t command a huddle.  

 

Don't recall.   But the knock from this dude was basically he's not a good player for various reasons which I listed - the personality he was mixed on, nice guy, works hard, laid back, quiet, not a leader.  

 

Herbert killed it from the jump as a player.  As the Jets reporter said, Darnold has been the worst Qb in the league for a chunk of his tenure. 

Edited February 15, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[TheShredder]

39 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Instead of risking draft picks on the draft, we could trade them for proven players that just need a big contract. We've never tried that angle, right?

That's the balancing act right...I think when a young and hungry proven player can be added there's some argument in there for certain positions like QB, OT, WR because that's a proven commodity and the draft pick isn't.  So yes you build through the draft and add key talent via FA or trade when you can.  It's not cap killing to pay market value sometimes.

[Rufus T Firefly]

9 hours ago, PartyPosse said:

Pats consistently have bad line play. 

Completely inaccurate, by the way. 

[TheShredder]

2 hours ago, bowhunter said:

My only concern would be the loss of 2 assets. Lose your 1st rd pick AND give up salary cap space. I'd love to add Brown to the team, but if RR thinks we could use that 19 pick on a LT of similar caliber then I'd rather keep the pick. Plus, I'd love to see if a stud LB falls to that spot. Honestly our LB core needs more help than our OL currently does.

I don't see WFT getting a top 20 draft pick for 2022.  They've got to nail down that LT spot and another WR to be able to win more games week on week.  I'm sure they've got plans and option with basically 2 GM's and scouting department working it out.  I think we're all just hypothesizing of course, but i agree there's LB'ers coming in too.  Fun to guess what they might be doing.  Isn't this what we do every year?