Rookie QB or Veteran QB for "Next Season"??? (I didn't bump this, but I ended up being wrong anyway....)

[Skinsinparadise]

9 hours ago, BraveWarrior said:

I don't disagree, but "ouch"! Brutally honest.

 

 

 lol feels good for me to actually read it.  I've been trashing Darnold for months.  But dudes like Kiper, Jeremiah, McShay were talking him up like he's one of the best QB prospects we've seen for years and is still brimming with greatness.  I just don't see what they do.    

Edited March 17, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Thinking Skins]

20 hours ago, Fat Stupid Loser said:

Don't we have those projects already? Unless you are convinced that 3rd rounder is going to turn in to at least Kirk Cousins, why waste the pick on a project. We already have two projects on the roster. Plus Montez.

I think its all about how we view them today as well as in 3 or 4 years. When Dallas got Tony Romo, they were saying he had potential but he needed years of development. But the thought from the getgo was that he could be the guy to turn that franchise around. Right now we have 3 QBs and Montez. Will a QB in the 3rd be better than Allen? Will they have a better health record and be more likely to stay healthy over a longer stretch than Heinicke? Will they have the upside that we think about? 

 

The problem I have with Fitz is that he's a one year guy. We're not building a franchise around him for the next 5 years. So we need to have guys in the system who are developing and growing. The 2021 QB class is deep and has some potential steals with Newman who was considered a first rounder before opting out. Then there are guys like Mond and Trask who I think would be higher picks in another draft (say 2013 draft). We don't know what the 2022 QB class will be but if it is comparable to 2022, then it makes more sense to get a potential guy now rather than waiting. Maybe that guy becomes nothing better than a Tyrod Taylor or Nick Foles, if that. But they could also become a Kirk Cousins or Dak Prescott. 

 

I like the idea of "attacking" the QB position. But my idea of attacking it is more about throwing more opportunities at it instead of just throwing everything at the top guy available. I don't like the idea of drafting 2 QBs the same year (like we did with Heath and Gus or with RG3 and Cousins), but I do like the idea of drafting a high potential guy on day 2 of the draft to develop. 

 

As far as Montez, I think he's probably gone. I look at how we treated him last year and maybe its just the totality of it, but we didn't give him a chance when nobody else looked good. We turned to a guy off the street over him. That's not a good look for him. Ron talked about him and it wasn't praise. I'm all for rooting for the UDFA to outperform his contract, but I can't see it happening. 

[KDawg]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 lol feels good for me to actually read it.  I've been trashing Darnold for momths.  But dudes like Kiper, Jeremiah, McShay were talkimg him up like he's one of the best QB prospects we've seen for years and is still brimming with greatness.  I just don't see what they do.    

Nah. You just didn’t have your insider friends on the Jets telling you to talk up Darnold to help their trade market or they’d dry the well on Jets news moving forward. Allegedly.

[Skinsinparadise]

14 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Nah. You just didn’t have your insider friends on the Jets telling you to talk up Darnold to help their trade market or they’d dry the well on Jets news moving forward. Allegedly.

 

Could be.  But I'd add the mock drafter types have genuinely been royally wrong on QBs plenty of time.  Among other things, I recall people arguing with me, you and others on the Haskins thread that Dan was justfied to override his FO and take Haskins because various mock drafters also rated him as a top 10 prospect. 

[Anselmheifer]

I wonder how these sexual assault allegations are going to affect the Deshaun Watson situation. 
 

Also, I think we should roll with Fitz

and Heinicke this year. Load up the roster. Trade down to pick up another first next year. Use that draft capital to swing hard for Aaron Rodgers, or another elite vet if they are available. 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

5 hours ago, Anselmheifer said:

I wonder how these sexual assault allegations are going to affect the Deshaun Watson situation. 
 

Also, I think we should roll with Fitz

and Heinicke this year. Load up the roster. Trade down to pick up another first next year. Use that draft capital to swing hard for Aaron Rodgers, or another elite vet if they are available. 

 

I am in the same place exactly unless there is a surprise faller QB in the draft.  Scheter who is probably the most accurate national reporter is saying right now no chance -- the top 4 are all going high.  

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Warhead36]

The Falcons restructured Ryan so I don't think they'll be going QB anymore. Probably trade down though.

[Malapropismic Depository]

19 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

I have to question the credibility of that source though.

NFL Offensive Coaches do not address the media as "Bro"

 

 

Edited March 17, 2021 by Malapropismic Depository

[Number 44]

6 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

I have to question the credibility of that source though.

NFL Offensive Coaches do not address the media as "Bro"

 

 

Dan Campbell?

[CommanderInTheRye]

We will win some and we will lose some but one thing I can guarantee is that we got us a mother luvin’ quarterback with serious balls dragging on the ground type swag.
 

WFT games just became must see tv...
 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 17, 2021 by TrancesWithWolves

[Skinsinparadise]

Love Sheehan but I'd bet money he ignores this nugget from Breer and keeps focusing on the pro Darnold reports. 

 

Breer is well connected.  I think the clearly false report that we are still in on Darnold after the Fitzpatrick signing smokes out that the Jets wanted people to believe that the WFT were in.   And according to Breer, we were never seriously in from the start.   

 

Reminds me some of all the rumors about how SF was hot and heavy for Stafford and then it came out later that it was BS.  

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2021/03/17/nfl-mailbag-cleveland-browns-super-bowl-49ers-jets-free-agency

From Louie (@Louie_Rock): Have the Jets overplayed their hand on finding a spot to trade Darnold? It feels like the QB seats are starting to fill up with Fitzpatrick in Washington.

Louie, I don’t think so, because I believe that if something landed in GM Joe Douglas’s lap that was mind-blowing, he’d have moved Sam Darnold by now. Absent that, it was important to Douglas to first get medicals on BYU’s Zach Wilson, Ohio State’s Justin Fields and North Dakota State’s Trey Lance, and see those guys throw live. Fields will be the last of the three to have his pro day—and that’s not until March 30.

So no, the timing there is not ideal. And yes, there’s the risk that teams like Washington and Chicago might be completely out now (and I don’t think Washington was every really in at all on this one). But Douglas has talked with teams that needs quarterbacks, so it’s not like he doesn’t have a feel for where everyone stands.

 

[wit33]

10 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Love Sheehan but I'd bet money he ignores this nugget from Breer and keeps focusing on the pro Darnold reports. 

 

Breer is well connected.  I think the clearly false report that we are still in on Darnold after the Fitzpatrick signing smokes out that the Jets wanted people to believe that the WFT were in.   And according to Breer, we were never seriously in from the start.   

 

Reminds me some of all the rumors about how SF was hot and heavy for Stafford and then it came out later that it was BS.  

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2021/03/17/nfl-mailbag-cleveland-browns-super-bowl-49ers-jets-free-agency

From Louie (@Louie_Rock): Have the Jets overplayed their hand on finding a spot to trade Darnold? It feels like the QB seats are starting to fill up with Fitzpatrick in Washington.

Louie, I don’t think so, because I believe that if something landed in GM Joe Douglas’s lap that was mind-blowing, he’d have moved Sam Darnold by now. Absent that, it was important to Douglas to first get medicals on BYU’s Zach Wilson, Ohio State’s Justin Fields and North Dakota State’s Trey Lance, and see those guys throw live. Fields will be the last of the three to have his pro day—and that’s not until March 30.

So no, the timing there is not ideal. And yes, there’s the risk that teams like Washington and Chicago might be completely out now (and I don’t think Washington was every really in at all on this one). But Douglas has talked with teams that needs quarterbacks, so it’s not like he doesn’t have a feel for where everyone stands.

 

Sheehan was waaaay off on compensation needed for Darnold and influenced Cooley in the process lol. I was in on a 2nd early, then soured due to the contract situation and wouldve entertained a trade for 3rd, but preferably a 4th. My guess is this the type of offers they’re receiving and I imagine the FO will cave or just keep him. 

[Skinsinparadise]

6 minutes ago, wit33 said:

Sheehan was waaaay off on compensation needed for Darnold and influenced Cooley in the process lol. I was in on a 2nd early, then soured due to the contract situation and wouldve entertained a trade for 3rd, but preferably a 4th. My guess is this the type of offers they’re receiving and I imagine the FO will cave or just keep him. 

Somehow I doubt they loved Darnold but were just put off by giving up a 2nd.  If Breer was right that they were never really in on it then I'd hazard a guess they might not have been infatuated with his play the way Sheehan was.  Clearly the Jets wanted to give the vibe to reporters that WFT was all in -- heck they leaked to a Jets reporter that we were still in after signing Fitz.  Crazy.  But that was shot down by two national reporters and local reporters pretty quickly.

 

I don't blame the Jets for doing it.  You want to play games to hype your asset.  I recall all the buzz that SF was all over Stafford and then it came out later that they were never in on it at all.

 

As for Cooley he admitted twice he didn't do a look back film review of Darnold. 

 

 

 

Edited March 17, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[wit33]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Somehow I doubt they loved Darnold but were just put off by giving up a 2nd.  If Breer was right that they were never really in on it then I'd hazard a guess they might not have been infatuated with his play the way Sheehan was.  Clearly the Jets wanted to give the vibe to reporters that WFT was all in -- heck they leaked to a Jets reporter that we were still in after signing Fitz.  Crazy.  But that was shot down by two national reporters and local reporters pretty quickly.

 

I don't blame the Jets for doing it.  You want to play games to hype your asset.  I recall all the buzz that SF was all over Stafford and then it came out later that they were never in on it at all.

 

As for Cooley he admitted twice he didn't do a look back film review of Darnold. 

 

 

 

Cooley remark was him agreeing on compensation, but Cooley rarely has any clue on value of guys IMO, but has improved in that regard over the years. 
 

Sounds to me teams have been off put by expectation of compensation by the Jets. Would be shocked if it’s more than a 3rd. 

Edited March 17, 2021 by wit33

[NoCalMike]

I think it's hard to assess blanket value of a player at any given time because their worth really comes down to two things which is how much their current team wants to keep them vs how much other teams want them.  I think a player like Dak probably got paid way more to remain a Cowboy than he would have on the open market because from Dallas's perspective they weren't just paying for Dak's services, but they were paying him extra out of fear of him leaving and having a huge void at the position.  The prospect of going into the NFL season being unsure at the QB position is basically poisoning your chances at sustained success 90% of the time.

[Ball Security]

This Watson saga is truly bizarre.

[heyholetsgogrant]

1 hour ago, Ball Security said:

This Watson saga is truly bizarre.

Looks like the Texans get their wish to keep him, I doubt any teams want him now with the civil cases out in the open.

Edited March 18, 2021 by heyholetsgogrant

[Skinsinparadise]

13 hours ago, wit33 said:

Cooley remark was him agreeing on compensation, but Cooley rarely has any clue on value of guys IMO, but has improved in that regard over the years. 
 

Sounds to me teams have been off put by expectation of compensation by the Jets. Would be shocked if it’s more than a 3rd. 

 

As i told you previously my take on it is if he's as good as some of the comments you've made about him - I recall you saying Mahomes like elite ability to make plays off script -- if so, my take is teams would have no problem paying a first let alone a 2nd. 

 

As for Cooley what dissappointed me is he admitted in two different segments he didn't go back and watch him.  Cooley's film reviews are really good.  Maybe he did study him now, I don't know.  But i did hear him admit that he didn't do it in previous segments.   

 

Who knows?  You might end up right about Darnold.  I can never assess with 100% assurance about any player and that goes double with QBs.  For all I know, maybe Darnold does play like a stud next year.  But, I'll say this with assurance.  If teams now saw Darnold as a stud -- the compensation would not scare them off.  Teams are desperate for QBs.  The Bears just offered three #1's a 3rd and 2 players for Wilson and got shot down.   Stafford just went for two first rounders and change.  If teams saw Darnold, at 23 years old, as good or likely a franchise QB, they'd have no issue paying a first rounder let alone a 2nd rounder for him.

 

My bet is some desperate team ultimately does roll the dice and gives the Jets a 2nd a change and at least matches the Rosen deal.  My bet is that team will be dissapointed.   Will see. 

Edited March 18, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 18, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

Couldn't make out so much what Keim was trying to say in the last tweet, as for not having to be at 19.  In the past, he's alluded to they might trade up in the first if an opportunity arises.  I didn't get the impression that they'd be inclined to take a flier later in the draft via other comments if they signed a veteran FA.  But i am backing off that point now.  Not that Keim is never wrong but I trust him more than anyone who covers the team.  I get the impression from his tweets that anything is possible in the draft at QB now. 

Edited March 18, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[DWinzit]

Leads me to think if a QB drops they may jump from 19. Also that they have another guy in mind if there when they select in a later round.

[Burgold]

I think one thing to keep in mind as to early 2022 evaluations was COVID really messed up a lot of teams. Practices were wonky. Many teams played fewer games. Another factors.

 

It's possible that the QB assessments are not as good as they usually are... and given how many QB misses happen every year that might really be something. On the other hand, next year's prospects may be exactly as advertised.

[Skinsinparadise]

Finlay just said on a podcast a variation of what Breer said the other day. 
 

That is, he was told after they missed out on Stafford there were a bunch in that building who weren’t enamored with the other options including the reclamation projects and said let’s get Fitzpatrick and figure out the future later 

[Burgold]

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Finlay just said on a podcast a variation of what Breer said the other day. 
 

That is, he was told after they missed out on Stafford there were a bunch in that building who weren’t enamored with the other options including the reclamation projects and said let’s get Fitzpatrick and figure out the future later 

That's kind of what I was thinking. Mariotta intrigued me, but not for draft picks.