Rookie QB or Veteran QB for "Next Season"??? (I didn't bump this, but I ended up being wrong anyway....)

[Est.1974]

Fitz is a major upgrade for this year. Doesn’t say much for what we’ve had recently, but I think he is that level of upgrade. Interested to see when the dust settles if it really is just a one year deal, or includes say another voidable year that could be activated.

 

I have a feeling we aren’t done at QB yet this offseason.

[DJHJR86]

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

He's a totally different ride than Alex Smith.  Alex is so conservative Football Outsiders renamed their stat for checkdowns "the Alex".  Fitz lets it fly.  Totally different styles. 

 

They both average near identical yards stretched out over a 16 game stretch going back to 2014.  Both very similar AY/A, passer ratings, and the main difference is Fitzpatrick averaged 5 more touchdowns and 7 more interceptions than Smith.  Yes, Fitzpatrick isn't as conservative as Alex, but he's also not someone who you can trust when a playoff game is on the line.

 

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhrzPFmfYu0&t=95s&ab_channel=NFL&t=1m35s

[Califan007 The Constipated]

5 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

This is a low upside but moxy filled QB room. 

 

The Washington football Team QBs..."it's got industrial-strength moxie!!"

[Skinsinparadise]

Among starters, Fitz ranked third as for the deep ball.  Wonder if this leads to a deep ball threat in FA  and supposedly they were already targeting someone like that.  Fitz doesn't have a strong arm but he lets it fly.  His accuracy has improved late in his career. 

Edited March 16, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

6 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

They both average near identical yards stretched out over a 16 game stretch going back to 2014.  Both very similar AY/A, passer ratings, and the main difference is Fitzpatrick averaged 5 more touchdowns and 7 more interceptions than Smith.  Yes, Fitzpatrick isn't as conservative as Alex, but he's also not someone who you can trust when a playoff game is on the line.

 

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhrzPFmfYu0&t=95s&ab_channel=NFL&t=1m35s

 

To buy into Fitz, you got to buy into like PFF says he's improved as he got older.  If you focus on his last two years he was a better player.  His best seasons as for QBR.   75.1, 76.5 from PFF his last two seasons.  Alex with a 34.8 QBR last year.  Ryan has about double that.  If we want to argue against Fitzpatrick, I'd think the theme would have to be the last seasons were a fluke.

 

Conservative or Wild.  They both play on opposite extremes.  If someone prefers conservative, I get that.   But the two flavors are just wildly different.   I'd trust Fitz in a playoff game versus any of the FA options we had available by a mile.  At least the dude is clutch and can get hot.  For us to be lucky in the playoffs without a franchise QB, we'd need a streaky QB and hope they are on fire during that spell.  Eli was a streaky dude.  Foles happened to get hot at the right time.

 

What other option did you want?  We aren't picking high in the draft and the other options IMO was meh.  Trade for Darnold?

 

 

[Going Commando]

6 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Among starters, Fitz ranked third as for the deep ball.  Wonder if this leads to a deep ball threat in FA  and supposedly they were already targeting someone like that.  Fitz doesn't have a strong arm but he lets it fly.  His accuracy has improved late in his career. 

 

Will Fuller is the obvious fit.  Hopefully he isn't too terribly expensive.

[Wayne_Millner]

Well at least we have a QB with some personality now. Could make an argument with RGIII, but it’s really been since Joey T. 

[mhd24]

6 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Will Fuller is the obvious fit.  Hopefully he isn't too terribly expensive.

 

 

Yup.  Maybe his suspension (for the opener) and injury history drives down his value.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

As usual I check out some Cowboys fans' reactions to certain moves...

 

 

"Washington wins NFC East. "

 

"Fitzmagic is going to be problems."

 

"Damn. He’s actually a good QB. And with our luck, he’ll beat us at least once."

 

"The perfect bus driver QB with a great defense. Recipe for a championship"

 

"This is a good signing for the skins. they will be a tough team to beat this season. No doubt about it."

 

"Best QB in the NFC East."

 

"Oh Skins are going on a run this year. Fitz is better than what Skins have had recently."

 

"I'm not sure I understand why anyone thinks this is any kind of big deal. What has Fitz done to warrant that. He's a 60 percent passer with an 82 rating. He's a step down from Alex Smith, 62 percent, 86 rating. I'm happy with this move by Washington. I'd take Fitz as a backup, but if he's your starter, you've got some shortcomings to overcome."

 

"People see his hot streaks and get excited. He is a good backup, but a poor starter"

 

"Fitz is always amazing for like 4 or 5 games, then he turns into a pick machine, and gets benched for a young guy. WFT starts 3-0, then loses 3 straight, and the Heineke Era will begin (and then end a few months later)."

 

"Fitz will hurt us. This actually worries me. Our defense is hot trash and it looks like we wont be much better."

 

"Fitz is more of a leader and playmaker"

 

"Some of y'all act like the Dallas defense can stop somebody. Kyle Allen punked them for a W. It doesn't matter who the QB is with trash on defense."

 

"The NFC East is “allllll over” in my Howard Cosell voice."

 

"Fitz will throw for 400 yards or 4 interceptions. Sometimes both. A "bus driver" he ain't. His style of play is more like a sports car from hell. Flying to a win or crashing and burning. But I am thinking this could be trouble."

 

" I really hate this, only less than WFT trading up for a top QB in the draft, which this draft doesn’t prevent them from also doing."

 

"So we could have had Fitzmagic and drafted a 1st round QB for a fraction of the price we paid Dak."

 

" Great job by Washington front office in rejigging their QB position"

 

"And with their Dline I think that team wins the division."

 

"Damn."

 

[Thinking Skins]

29 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

He's a totally different ride than Alex Smith.  Alex is so conservative Football Outsiders renamed their stat for checkdowns "the Alex".  Fitz lets it fly.  Totally different styles. 

 

Honestly, this is what scares me. While Heinicke and Allen have me more thinking about what their ceilings could be, Fitz has me saying he's not going to improve much (although these have been his best two years). I'm not on the Sheehan bandwagon calling him a top 10 QB or trying to say he may outperform Stafford. I really think that it'll be an up and down season as we live and die with his performances. Its sad because 10 years ago I wanted to give this guy a chance and see what we could do with him. He was the Nick Mullens that worked out. 

 

The thing about this move is that I really don't see the up side in it. Like, with Alex, we knew we were getting a safe QB. He wasn't going to win us games but at this point in his career he wasn't going to lose us many games. Case Keenum was a guy I liked trading for because he cost nothing and I thought he looked so good in Minnesota and decent in Denver that it was worth the risk. The gamble with Fitz is that we get no better production than Heinicke or Allen, but worse than say Smith and this regression causes Snyder to come back into the front office making demands to get his next favorite QB to draft and fix the team. Not saying Mullens would be a better option but I don't think Fitz throwing for 4000 yards and 25 TDs but going 6-10 will do a lot to settle Snyder's need to improve the team by direct involvement. 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 minute ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Will Fuller is the obvious fit.  Hopefully he isn't too terribly expensive.

 

Yep.  He's killer good when healthy.  Golladay is a big dude who can stretch the field and make contested catches and fits well.

 

I've seen much of Fitzpatrick's run in Miami being from the area including a couple of times in person.  If he plays the way he has of late, I think some here will be pleasantly surprised.  He's had an odd late career arc.  When was the last time we had a dude that was ranked 5th in QBR?  And Miami's supporting cast was mostly garbage on offense.  They had a good defense though. 

 

I get his reputation years back.  In fact it hit me at one point years ago he was an option during one FA year and I said heck no.  I've seen the roller coaster seasons from him and I wanted no part of it.

 

But he's always been a super great leader and locker room guy.  And he oddly got more consistent the last two years.  He still throws picks but he's no disaster now on that front.  And he's willing to stretch the field.  

 

He's beloved in South Florida.  I have a share of friends who are Dolphin fans as are my parents and they love the dude. 

 

He won't set the world on fire but IMO a good bridge QB to buy time to find a franchise QB.  So if Keim is right that they might use the 2021 draft to build 2022 draft capital, we'd make a move for someone younger then.  

 

But in the meantime, we might win some games with this dude.  And if Heinicke can be developed (I got no idea one way or another), Fitz is known for his mentoring skills. 

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/miami-dolphins/fl-sp-dolphins-ryan-fitzpatrick-washington-20210316-cbqycbghgfdindbnorkex3htse-story.html

He was the wily and refreshing gunslinger who — sported a luscious, dirty blonde beard — and brought life to Miami after seven seasons of Ryan Tannehill.

His FitzMagic led the Dolphins to thrilling, game-winning victories against the New England Patriots to end the 2019 season, and the Las Vegas Raiders in his final game as a Dolphin.

His love for the game ever so evident when he tried to scrimmage shortly after finding out his mother died last August. Flores wrapped his arm around Fitzpatrick and walked him off the Hard Rock Stadium field so he could go be with his family. Two days later, Fitzpatrick returned for the next practice.

His leadership helped Dolphins like receiver DeVante Parker and tight end Mike Gesicki to realize their potential, and he forged friendships with so many other coaches and teammates with his insight and humor along the way.

Fitzpatrick’s time with the Dolphins was short but special. And it came to a bittersweet end, with the veteran quarterback agreeing to a one-year, $10 million deal with the Washington Football Team in free agency late Monday night.

 

 

[Est.1974]

I think Kyle Allen could be on the bubble this offseason. Feels to me like we could easily go rookie QB this year.

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Fitzpatrick’s time with the Dolphins was short but special. And it came to a bittersweet end, with the veteran quarterback agreeing to a one-year, $10 million deal with the Washington Football Team.

I think Fitz got stitched up in Miami. He was benched and he missed out on a ton of contract incentives.

Edited March 16, 2021 by UK SKINS FAN 74

[Skinsinparadise]

Just like I knew the Tannehill narrative because you are surrounded by it in South Florida, I know the Fitzpatrick one too.  It's all around me. 

 

You cannot sum up the sell on Fitz by averaging his career.    You either buy his late career surge is meaningful or you don't.  Among my Dolphin friends, they buy more into Fitz than they do Tua. 

 

Yeah maybe his late career surge is a fluke.  That is certainly possible.  But again the dude was 5th in the league at QBR.  It's not the perfect stat but its a good metric especially in cases when a player plays with a poor supporting cast like he did.  Good PFF scores, too.

 

But for me the key is I watched enough of his games this year to know he is a distinct improvement over the QBs we had last year save Heinicke's playoff game. 

 

If he just replicates that and we improve the rest of the roster we can win the division again.  i didn't feel that way if we took someone like Trubisky or Darnold. 

 

 

https://www.miamidolphins.com/news/ryan-fitzpatrick-getting-better-with-age

Ryan Fitzpatrick: Getting Better With Age

•  
•  

Old age in real life and in football are two entirely different landmarks. Once an NFL player enters his 30's, the proverbial clock -- fairly or not -- begins.

There are exceptions all throughout the league, and one position seems impervious to the dreaded expiration date – the quarterback.

"I think in the last four or five years, I've really gotten better every year and I think as funny as it sounds, I think my best football is still ahead of me," Ryan Fitzpatrick said at the conclusion of his first minicamp with the Dolphins last April.

Football is more than the box score, but data agrees with Fitzpatrick; he's trending upwards.

Edited March 16, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Fat Stupid Loser]

38 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

They both average near identical yards stretched out over a 16 game stretch going back to 2014.  Both very similar AY/A, passer ratings, and the main difference is Fitzpatrick averaged 5 more touchdowns and 7 more interceptions than Smith.  Yes, Fitzpatrick isn't as conservative as Alex, but he's also not someone who you can trust when a playoff game is on the line.

 

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhrzPFmfYu0&t=95s&ab_channel=NFL&t=1m35s

Fitzmagic was my preferred veteran, place holder. Great leader, fun to watch, gives you a slugger's chance to win games while continuing to build the team.  A big high, low low kind of player.  Barring a Rich Gannon kind of year, he won't take us anywhere big, but this team can win some games with him this year while building.  We just weren't in a good position to do anything bigger and outside of two guys, nobody was worth trading up for. And I'm not overly confident about those two.

[Skinsinparadise]

5 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

I think Kyle Allen could be on the bubble this offseason. Feels to me like we could easily go rookie QB this year.

 

 

The thing about them not intending to dump Kyle Allen is based on what beat guys believe and it came off like they heard it albeit I am not 100% sure if its their belief versus something they were tipped off on.  Will see.  I don't care personally that much one way or another.

 

Personally I'd rather load up on weapons/OL/MLB in the 2nd-3rd versus taking a flier on a QB.  But if they take a QB I won't flip out.   Just saying multiple beat guys have said they don't expect they to take a QB later in the draft if they sign a FA with the exception being a faller in the first that they didn't expect. 

 

Maybe these guys are dead wrong about it or change their tune now that this went down.  Will see.  I don't really care that much.  Only reason why I am stating it some here seem to suggest taking a veteran makes it even more likely they take a QB later in the draft. And I've heard thus far the opposite on that point so just sharing.  Will see.   And again if these guys change their opinion on this now that it happened I'll share that here.  

[Skinsinparadise]

23 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

Honestly, this is what scares me. While Heinicke and Allen have me more thinking about what their ceilings could be, Fitz has me saying he's not going to improve much (although these have been his best two years). I'm not on the Sheehan bandwagon calling him a top 10 QB or trying to say he may outperform Stafford. I really think that it'll be an up and down season as we live and die with his performances. Its sad because 10 years ago I wanted to give this guy a chance and see what we could do with him. He was the Nick Mullens that worked out. 

 

The thing about this move is that I really don't see the up side in it. Like, with Alex, we knew we were getting a safe QB. He wasn't going to win us games but at this point in his career he wasn't going to lose us many games. Case Keenum was a guy I liked trading for because he cost nothing and I thought he looked so good in Minnesota and decent in Denver that it was worth the risk. The gamble with Fitz is that we get no better production than Heinicke or Allen, but worse than say Smith and this regression causes Snyder to come back into the front office making demands to get his next favorite QB to draft and fix the team. Not saying Mullens would be a better option but I don't think Fitz throwing for 4000 yards and 25 TDs but going 6-10 will do a lot to settle Snyder's need to improve the team by direct involvement. 

 

As for Snyder as Peter King stated a year or so ago his franchise is bleeding fans.  I can say in South Florida, Fitz is super popular.  Read the local newspaper article I posted above.  It's like they are losing a hero.    If he plays like he did in Miami, fans will love him and that should help Dan's mood.  

 

If you put Fitz on the same team we had last year, we'd have gone 10-6 IMO.  So I don't expect regression fromn this team as you state with a 6-10.  But I got one caveat on that, their schedule is brutal this year.  Last season was fairly easy.  Our defense really feasted mostly off of poor offenses including against your dude Nick Mullens.    I don't know how they are going to do versus Mahomes, Brady, J. Alen and the slew of murders row they will face next season.  Tom Brady carved this defense up like it was nothing.  We certainly need to add to our defense this off season. 

Edited March 16, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Est.1974]

I think Allen has always been talked up by Rivera and Turner. Maybe Heinicke has come out of left field and filled that role? Both have very affordable deals, potentially could be a case that Allen is now more expendable due to the emergence of Heinicke in that #2 role.
 

Maybe not, there isn’t any harm in retaining both over the offseason. Got to think a rookie is on the cards, or we think that getting a vet QB next offseason is easier than this one.

[LD0506]

Wow, I am amped by this, Fitz is a major upgrade. It isn't simply what he brings under center, the guy is a leader and a motivator coming to a team building a new spirit, with a leader coach and motivator players, he doesn't have to light up the lockerroom, he just adds to the fire.

 

And also, people have been carping that we couldn't sign any decent FAs because of the QB situation, I think that has been resolved. There has been a lot of talk around the league about McLaurin and what he could be with help on the other side, we'll see that now. All the attention the D got? Well the O was heard too, this is a legit move to add an upgrade where we needed it.

 

I know, he has this rep as getting carried away at times, throwing wtf? picks and all, but with our D, our coaching staff and the young players we already have, let's see. I'm hopeful (until convinced otherwise).

[Skinsinparadise]

2 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

I think Allen has always been talked up by Rivera and Turner. Maybe Heinicke has come out of left field and filled that role? Both have very affordable deals, potentially could be a case that Allen is now more expendable due to the emergence of Heinicke in that #2 role.
 

Maybe not, there isn’t any harm in retaining both over the offseason. Got to think a rookie is on the cards, or we think that getting a vet QB next offseason is easier than this one.

 

Judging by Keim among others, I don't think a rookie is in the cards for 2021 if they obtain a veteran which they did.  But in 2022 maybe so or watch us win the next Stafford type sweepstakes. 

 

Will see.  Like I said I am very curious to hear what people like Keim say now that its happened.  Not saying these guys can't be wrong.  But they know more than I do.  And its possible the tune has changed.  I'll keep listening. 

[Thinking Skins]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

As for Snyder as Peter King stated a year or so ago his franchise is bleeding fans.  I can say in South Florida, Fitz is super popular.  Read the local newspaper article I posted above.  It's like they are losing a hero.    If he plays like he did in Miami, fans will love him and that should help Dan's mood.  

 

If you put Fitz on the same team we had last year, we'd have done 10-6 IMO.  So I don't expect regression fromn this team as you state with a 6-10.  But I got one caveat on that, their schedule is brutal this year.  Last season was fairly easy.  Our defense really feasted mostly off of poor offense including your dude Nick Mullens.    I don't know how they are going to do versus Mahomes, Brady, J. Alen and the slew of murders row they will face next season.  Tom Brady carved this defense up like it was nothing.  We certainly needed to add to our defense this off season. 

 

I disagree with the 10-6 comment. I think early on we were a team making mistakes and while its easy to place blame on Haskins for going 1-4 initially, we also went 1-4 with Allen before Smith came in and things turned around. I don't think Smith did any magic, just our team grew up suddenly. 

 

I joke more about Mullens now than anything, but I don't think there's a lot of separation from a Nick Mullens from a Sam Darnold except one was a UDFA and one was a first rounder. Mullens has had higher QBRs and better YPA. That said I don't think either is going to be an all pro, but I think the double standard about draft status and things like "arm strength" are at play when some teams are considering trading a second day pick for a Darnold versus Mullens not even being tendered for a RFA contract. 

 

As far as this coming season, I think less about the QB we're playing and more about the WRs and offensive lines. I think that's especially true with our DL and if we can upgrade our CBs. We have a dominant DL and we saw how important the OL was to a QB when Wentz just had his horrible year that got him traded and his coach fired. I don't know how good these OLs will be this year but I expect Young/Allen/Payne/Sweat will be a year better and that will be a force to help us level the playing field. 

[Thinking Skins]

7 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Judging by Keim among others, I don't think a rookie is in the cards for 2021 if they obtain a veteran which they did.  But in 2022 maybe so or watch us win the next Stafford type sweepstakes. 

 

Will see.  Like I said I am very curious to hear what people like Keim say now that its happened.  Not saying these guys can't be wrong.  But they know more than I do.  And its possible the tune has changed.  I'll keep listening. 

 

I'm going by nobody but my own intuition, but seeing as we went after FItz instead of Tribusky or Mariota or Darnold makes me think that a low round QB may still be in the works. I am thinking about that Sims QB ranking and the rumor that a NFL team said don't list Mond so high because he's our secret and I'm thinking that (or maybe hoping) that we could sign a guy like him. It could easily be another QB like dude from ND or Mills. But I'd think that we are definitely looking at the low round guys. 

[Fat Stupid Loser]

"Fitz will throw for 400 yards or 4 interceptions. Sometimes both. A "bus driver" he ain't. His style of play is more like a sports car from hell. Flying to a win or crashing and burning. But I am thinking this could be trouble."

 

Don't know why, but I love that quote.

[Andre The Giant]

 

[Warhead36]

Fitz can get hot and will single handily win some games for you, but he'll also straight up lose games for you with his turnovers. I'm okay with the signing though because its hard to justify going into a season with your only QBs being Heinecke and Allen.

 

My guess is Rivera doesn't want to spend more than what we spent on Fitz for a placeholder QB. Keep stocking up the roster and maybe make a run at a QB next year.

[Andre The Giant]