Rookie QB or Veteran QB for "Next Season"??? (I didn't bump this, but I ended up being wrong anyway....)

[86 Snyder]

Who did this

 

[heyholetsgogrant]

8 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I've heard now 3 national reporters say there is a small chance Wilson could get moved this year but its much more likely and borderline slam dunk it goes down next year

 

 

 

I'm so sick of click bait titles that say, "Here's why."

[CapsSkins]

I'm not trying to be a nun around here or anything, but I think the "happy ending" jokes are tasteless given the nature of the accusations (at least one being outright rape / forced oral sex in December 2020) plus given what happened in Atlanta recently. Just my $0.02 

[Skinsinparadise]

Just listened to Keim's new podcast

 

As for QB, it could happen at 19 if someone drops or drops close for them to draft up but thinks the top 4 go top 10.

 

Seems to think if it happens its more likely in the 2nd-3rd round (unless there is a surprise drop among the top 4 Qbs in the first.

 

He doesn't think Mac Jones would be the dude they'd shoot for.

 

He could see Trask on the table if he falls to the third but unlikely they'd shoot for him in the 2nd round.  His intangibles might intrigue them.  Sounded like he was guessing on this front versus it being something he heard.

 

Could resign Fitzpatrick next year and they shoot for a Qb in the 2022 draft

 

QB is definitely on the table as for this draft but its not a certainty

 

Heincike isn't per se seen as the future.  Questions about his durability and short sample size.  But he isn't being ruled out.  Hearing Keim on other podcasts, the refrain on Heinicke seems to be they see him as a backup.

 

 

Edited March 21, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[RWJ]

57 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Just listened to Keim's new podcast

 

As for QB, it could happen at 19 if someone drops or drops close for them to draft up but thinks the top 4 go top 10.

 

Seems to think if it happens its more likely in the 2nd-3rd round (unless there is a surprise drop among the top 4 Qbs in the first.

 

He doesn't think Mac Jones would be the dude they'd shoot for.

 

He could see Trask on the table if he falls to the third but unlikely they'd shoot for him in the 2nd round.  His intangibles might intrigue them.  Sounded like he was guessing on this front versus it being something he heard.

 

Could resign Fitzpatrick next year and they shoot for a Qb in the 2022 draft

 

QB is definitely on the table as for this draft but its not a certainty

 

Heincike isn't per se seen as the future.  Questions about his durability and short sample size.  But he isn't being ruled out.  Hearing Keim on other podcasts, the refrain on Heinicke seems to be they see him as a backup.

 

 

We will know (not soon enough) LOL  Got to wait until end of April but we will know.  I wonder what Keim means the 2nd round.  Who would be there in the 2nd round they would be interested in.  Keim is ok but he sometimes disappoints, IMO.  He needs to stick to reporting the facts and not do the guessing.  Not aimed at you SIP but Keim sometimes needs to get off his high horse.  JMO.  

Edited March 22, 2021 by RWJ

[zCommander]

35 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Just listened to Keim's new podcast

 

As for QB, it could happen at 19 if someone drops or drops close for them to draft up but thinks the top 4 go top 10.

 

Seems to think if it happens its more likely in the 2nd-3rd round (unless there is a surprise drop among the top 4 Qbs in the first.

 

He doesn't think Mac Jones would be the dude they'd shoot for.

 

He could see Trask on the table if he falls to the third but unlikely they'd shoot for him in the 2nd round.  His intangibles might intrigue them.  Sounded like he was guessing on this front versus it being something he heard.

 

Could resign Fitzpatrick next year and they shoot for a Qb in the 2022 draft

 

QB is definitely on the table as for this draft but its not a certainty

 

Heincike isn't per se seen as the future.  Questions about his durability and short sample size.  But he isn't being ruled out.  Hearing Keim on other podcasts, the refrain on Heinicke seems to be they see him as a backup.

 

 

 

So in another words Keim knows jack ****...lol

He is guessing just like the rest of us.

[DWinzit]

48 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Just listened to Keim's new podcast

 

As for QB, it could happen at 19 if someone drops or drops close for them to draft up but thinks the top 4 go top 10.

 

Seems to think if it happens its more likely in the 2nd-3rd round (unless there is a surprise drop among the top 4 Qbs in the first.

 

He doesn't think Mac Jones would be the dude they'd shoot for.

 

He could see Trask on the table if he falls to the third but unlikely they'd shoot for him in the 2nd round.  His intangibles might intrigue them.  Sounded like he was guessing on this front versus it being something he heard.

This is my translation which closely resembles @zskins

They would move up some if Fields or Lance fall

If not they go at someone in the 3rd, probably Trask. 

Or anything else is on the table

 

He has brought Trask up numerous times. Either he has heard his name brought up by someone in the organization or he likes Trask and is trying to sell him. I figure its the latter like me thinking we should go at Newman or Mills 

 

[JoggingGod]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

As for QB, it could happen at 19 if someone drops or drops close for them to draft up but thinks the top 4 go top 10.

Trading into the top 10 for one of them is worth it. You can't contend without a franchise QB and you don't find those after round 1 unless you get extremely lucky.

[CapsSkins]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Heincike isn't per se seen as the future.  Questions about his durability and short sample size.  But he isn't being ruled out.  Hearing Keim on other podcasts, the refrain on Heinicke seems to be they see him as a backup.

 

 

 

My read here is that Heinicke has this upcoming season to persuade them he can be the long-term starter. Every day will be an audition for him - during OTAs and training camp, in preseason, on the practice field, in the meeting rooms, and judging by recent history w/ Fitz, quite plausibly at some in live game action should FitzTragedy strike (as it well may). Barring a surprise in this upcoming draft, 2022 will be when the team addresses finding a mid-long term QB and Heinicke has until then to persuade them they don't need to. 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, zskins said:

 

So in another words Keim knows jack ****...lol

He is guessing just like the rest of us.

 

Keim's typically hypoteticals end up with some meaning when things play out.  

 

Last year before the draft he went, they'd like a RB sort of like Antonio Gibson.

 

Before FA he said as far as receivers go maybe dudes like Curtis Samuel, Agholor, M. Jones.  It came out that's exactly who they talked to.

 

But yeah if people want to think he's flying nonsense against the wall, that's cool.  I don't care personally what people believe.

 

For me, I take Keim's speculation seriously.  But that's me.  To each their own. 😀

23 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

 

My read here is that Heinicke has this upcoming season to persuade them he can be the long-term starter. Every day will be an audition for him - during OTAs and training camp, in preseason, on the practice field, in the meeting rooms, and judging by recent history w/ Fitz, quite plausibly at some in live game action should FitzTragedy strike (as it well may). Barring a surprise in this upcoming draft, 2022 will be when the team addresses finding a mid-long term QB and Heinicke has until then to persuade them they don't need to. 

 

Judging by what Keim and Standig have said in different podcasts the powers that be don't think Heinicke is the dude but they like him as a backup.  It's on the table as a long shot but its not what they are betting on as a likelihood.  But who knows.  Will see. 

 

1 hour ago, DWinzit said:

 

He has brought Trask up numerous times. Either he has heard his name brought up by someone in the organization or he likes Trask and is trying to sell him. I figure its the latter like me thinking we should go at Newman or Mills 

 

 

It's possible Trask has some meaning to it.  He couched that point some which he doesn't always do where he said that was his take on the player.  So that's why i don't know if its for sure.  But Keim usually doesn't throw players names around for no reason.  

Edited March 22, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, RWJ said:

We will know (not soon enough) LOL  Got to wait until end of April but we will know.  I wonder what Keim means the 2nd round.  Who would be there in the 2nd round they would be interested in.  Keim is ok but he sometimes disappoints, IMO.  He needs to stick to reporting the facts and not do the guessing.  Not aimed at you SIP but Keim sometimes needs to get off his high horse.  JMO.  

 

If you don't like him sharing gossip, I guess you can tell him on twitter.  But I am not with you on that.  I love that stuff and among the reporters his gossip tends to be the most accurate.

 

I am guessing the Mac Jones part bothers you?  Look I am not a Trask guy, I'd rather he said a different player.  But it is what it is. 

[RWJ]

8 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

If you don't like him sharing gossip, I guess you can tell him on twitter.  But I am not with you on that.  I love that stuff and among the reporters his gossip tends to be the most accurate.

 

I am guessing the Mac Jones part bothers you?  Look I am not a Trask guy, I'd rather he said a different player.  But it is what it is. 

Again, not pointed at you SIP.  Love you man but it's Keim.  He rubs me the wrong way sometimes.  That's all.  I would hope we could agree to disagree sometimes like in case like this.  Don't let Keim interfere with us posting to each other on ES. brother.

 

P.S. I have told him on twitter how I felt and he's been somewhat rude to me with his responses.  I didn't come out rude to him but was kind in my disagreement with him on the subject.  After that I just let it go.  It's like if you don't agree with me hit the road type of answer back.  

[Number 44]

5 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

If you don't like him sharing gossip, I guess you can tell him on twitter.  But I am not with you on that.  I love that stuff and among the reporters his gossip tends to be the most accurate.

 

I am guessing the Mac Jones part bothers you?  Look I am not a Trask guy, I'd rather he said a different player.  But it is what it is. 

I like Jones, but I can understand the WFT not being interested, given the type of QB they reportedly want for their system.  The only part of this that is a bit confusing to me is the supposed interest in Trask, which doesn't make sense to me, fit-wise.  I mean Trask strikes me as a somewhat lesser fit for WFT than Mac Jones.  He is certainly not a Fields/Lance type of player, or Fitzpatrick/Heinecke for that matter.  Who knows?

[Skinsinparadise]

9 minutes ago, RWJ said:

Again, not pointed at you SIP.  Love you man but it's Keim.  He rubs me the wrong way sometimes.  That's all.  I would hope we could agree to disagree sometimes like in case like this.  Don't let Keim interfere with us posting to each other on ES. brother.

 

P.S. I have told him on twitter how I felt and he's been somewhat rude to me with his responses.  I didn't come out rude to him but was kind in my disagreement with him on the subject.  After that I just let it go.  It's like if you don't agree with me hit the road type of answer back.  

 

thanks, It's not personal for me, so yeah don't worry about that, its all cool. 😀

 

But for me as someone who as you know loves listening to podcasts and finding any nugget I can and posting it, I appreciate Keim more than any other beat guy for 3 reasons:

 

A.  He's right more than the others

B.  He's almost always referring to what he hears from people he knows in the building as opposed to giving his own opinion.

C.  His name dropping often (not always) has meaning in the end

 

For me I am more interested in what people in that FO think than Keim's take on things or Finlay or name that dude.   I've noticed Keim can get testy on twitter when people argue with him about opinion.  But he's often just parroting what he's hearing.  So for example I can insist to him that Jamie Newman is their best fit in the third round for example but he's not going to give rats behind about what i think about it.  As he likes to say he's not making these decisions for them.  He just gives us an impression of what he's hearing.

 

He's not always right.  And things change over time.  One person in the FO might think one thing and another something else.   Even Schefter isn't always right.  But I appreciate getting Keim's nuggets here and there.  😀

Edited March 22, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[RWJ]

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

thanks, It's not personal for me, so yeah don't worry about that, its all cool. 😀

 

But for me as someone who as you know loves listening to podcasts and finding any nugget I can and posting it, I appreciate Keim more than any other beat guy for 3 reasons:

 

A.  He's right more than the others

B.  He's almost always referring to what he hears from people he knows in the building as opposed to giving his own opinion.

C.  His name dropping often (not always) has meaning in the end

 

For me I am more interested in what people in that FO think than Keim's take on things or Finlay or name that dude.   I've noticed Keim can get testy on twitter when people argue with him about opinion.  But he's often just parroting what he's hearing.  So for example I can insist to him that Jamie Newman is their best fit in the third round for example but he's not going to give rats behind about what i think about it.  As he likes to say he's not making these decisions for them.  He just gives us an impression of what he's hearing.

 

He's not always right.  And things change over time.  One person in the FO might think one thing and another something else.   Even Schefter isn't always right.  But I appreciate getting Keim's nuggets here and there.  😀

Great comeback with your response.  Truly respected, my friend.   👍  Tell ya, Mond is really starting to grow on me if we don't go QB in the 1st.  It seems like, guessing on this that they may be really high on Lance.  We know they have interest in Fields at least it's been reported.  I wouldn't be upset if they traded up to get either.  I just like Jones for the reason you heard me mentioned time and time again.  🤣

Edited March 22, 2021 by RWJ

[Skinsinparadise]

8 minutes ago, Number 44 said:

I like Jones, but I can understand the WFT not being interested, given the type of QB they reportedly want for their system.  The only part of this that is a bit confusing to me is the supposed interest in Trask, which doesn't make sense to me, fit-wise.  I mean Trask strikes me as a somewhat lesser fit for WFT than Mac Jones.  He is certainly not a Fields/Lance type of player, or Fitzpatrick/Heinecke for that matter.  Who knows?

 

Specifically as to Trask, Keim said that was his own opinion because in his mind he has the intangibles that Rivera likes.  And he stressed hard only if he falls to the third round.

 

If he was hedging his bets and actually heard it from someone there and is pretending this is just his take -- than my thought on that is someone might have told him, Trask is a roll of the dice and it only might become interesting for them if he falls to the third -- anything above that isn't worth the risk for them.  If so, for all we know they might feel the same about Jones but if Jones is going in the first they don't like his value that high in the draft.  

 

He didn't really hit either point that strong about Jones or Trask.  You guys can listen to it and make your own deductions but that's my take listening to it.

 

Keim's name dropping often has a meaning behind it from what i've seen over the years.  but on Trask he specifically couched it by saying it was his opinion versus something he heard.  The thing that makes me a little suspicious is the heavy handed way he made the point about not in the 2nd round.  

Edited March 22, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[RWJ]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Specifically as to Trask, Keim said that was his own opinion because in his mind he has the intangibles that Rivera likes.  And he stressed hard only if he falls to the third round.

 

If he was hedging his bets and actually heard it from someone there and is pretending this is just his take -- than my thought on that is someone might have told him, Trask is a roll of the dice and it only might become interesting for them if he falls to the third -- anything above that isn't worth the risk for them.  If so, for all we know they might feel the same about Jones but if Jones is going in the first they don't like his value that high in the draft.  

 

He didn't really hit either point that strong.  You guys can listen to it and make your own deductions but that's my take listening to it.

 

Keim's name dropping often has a meaning behind it from what i've seen over the years.  but on Trask he specifically couched it by saying it was his opinion versus something he heard.  The thing that makes me a little suspicious is the heavy handed way he made the point about not in the 2nd round.  

Thoughts on the bolded statement.  Curious at to what you think he meant by that as you follow Keim and just give me a guess as to what it could be.  TIA.

[Est.1974]

7 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Could resign Fitzpatrick next year

Unless Fitz totally falls of the cliff edge in 2021 I would consider this the most likely scenario. 

[DWinzit]

8 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

It's possible Trask has some meaning to it.  He couched that point some which he doesn't always do where he said that was his take on the player.  So that's why i don't know if its for sure.  But Keim usually doesn't throw players names around for no reason.  

I hear ya, just feels he must have heard the name or pushing a favorite with Trask. Trask doesn't appear have the same characteristics are Ron's other QB's he has drafted which I think are only Cam and Will Grier. It is Will that scares me a little as Cam was a no brainer. Will is the one he had year to look for a reliable backup or future and that was his selection.  The two things those two had in common was the were leaders and mobile. Trask is a leader but more or a statue. 

[Skinsinparadise]

8 hours ago, RWJ said:

Thoughts on the bolded statement.  Curious at to what you think he meant by that as you follow Keim and just give me a guess as to what it could be.  TIA.

 

If I had to guess it, he was told that there are some flier QBs they might bet on. But also told him that there are positions they have their eye on in the 2nd and QB wasn't mentioned in that mix -- TE?  

 

And perhaps Keim thought about Qbs who might fall to the third round and is guessing Trask is one of them potentially.  Keim couched his point that it was his opinion on Trask.  Keim doesn't give away his opinion much, he's usually just parroting others.  So I am guessing he was told maybe a QB in the third and he guessed which one.

 

He is also in a heavy handed way saying "maybe" they take a QB and for sure its in play.  I know some will say that's way too vague and it means he knows nothing.  But when you go into the draft unless you got the top pick you got to play the maybe game.   You don't know how the board plays out until it plays out. 

 

For example, maybe I'll take a TE in the 2nd round if Jordan or Tremble are still there but if not i'll take so and so.  Maybe I'll take a QB in the third if so and so is there but heck if we love a player and he's a surprise faller, we will take that guy instead.  All you can do right now is gauge mindset.  That's it. 

 

And listening to that podcast among others.  Some of their mindset is likely:

 

A.  They like some TEs, they really want one

B.  They want a LT, either via FA or the draft but more likely the draft.  

C.  Qb in play, unlikely they give up the farm, and its not a must but a maybe.

D.  He hasn't really talked about LB much aside from saying its a good draft for LBs

E.  Nugget from his last podcast.  WR still in play.  And they can still take a slot WR.  And move Samuel around as a chess piece from slot-outside.

 

If that isn't enough information for some.  It's cool.  For me, I think it gives me a decent perspective of what they are thinking.  I recall the draft where they were telegraphing they wanted a DT early and ditto RB.  That's how it played out.  As the draft got closer ironically their interest in names like Payne and Guice got leaked out.  I'd bet we will eventually hear specific names this time, too.  i doubt their board is 100% set, you got some major pro days still coming up. 

4 hours ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

Unless Fitz totally falls of the cliff edge in 2021 I would consider this the most likely scenario. 

 

I think so too.  Mainly for two reasons:

 

A.  He's going to be good.  He's going to be better than a temp journeyman

 

B.  It's really hard to find a young franchise QB unless you are picking really high in the draft (which doesn't guarantee it either but gives you a stronger chance)

Edited March 22, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

@RWJ

 

I'd add on Mac Jones, the way he said it, it wasn't that heavy handed.  I'd guess for him his pro day might be more telling than most.  There are questions for example about his arm strength, so if he puts on a clinic that might sway some people.  With all the prospects Alabama has, I'd bet every team including ours is heavily represented. 

 

 

[profusion]

WFT has enough needs that I don't want to see them give up a big draft haul to move into the top 10 to select one of the non-Trevor Lawrence question mark QBs. I don't want them to get on the Jets/Bengals carousel with the "Washout QB of the Year" every couple years. Build a team.

[Skinsinparadise]

This is a nugget from Standig.  I'd add that after Keim, Standig seems to have the most gossip.  He and Keim are almost always aligned.  But they don't seem to be on QB. Standig at the moment doesn't seem to think they take a QB.

 

 

[Est.1974]

I appreciate I’ve been quite repetitive on this, but for me I could see us in on Marcus Mariota if he gets released. That is the only move I see that may impede Fitz being a clear starter in 2021.

 

Fitz/Mariota/Heinicke works for me. 
 

I’ve been fine with Kyle Allen to date. I suspect his value to RR and Turner has been somewhat diminished by the emergence of Heinicke.

[RWJ]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

If I had to guess it, he was told that there are some flier QBs they might bet on. But also told him that there are positions they have their eye on in the 2nd and QB wasn't mentioned in that mix -- TE?  

 

And perhaps Keim thought about Qbs who might fall to the third round and is guessing Trask is one of them potentially.  Keim couched his point that it was his opinion on Trask.  Keim doesn't give away his opinion much, he's usually just parroting others.  So I am guessing he was told maybe a QB in the third and he guessed which one.

 

He is also in a heavy handed way saying "maybe" they take a QB and for sure its in play.  I know some will say that's way too vague and it means he knows nothing.  But when you go into the draft unless you got the top pick you got to play the maybe game.   You don't know how the board plays out until it plays out. 

 

For example, maybe I'll take a TE in the 2nd round if Jordan or Tremble are still there but if not i'll take so and so.  Maybe I'll take a QB in the third if so and so is there but heck if we love a player and he's a surprise faller, we will take that guy instead.  All you can do right now is gauge mindset.  That's it. 

 

And listening to that podcast among others.  Some of their mindset is likely:

 

A.  They like some TEs, they really want one

B.  They want a LT, either via FA or the draft but more likely the draft.  

C.  Qb in play, unlikely they give up the farm, and its not a must but a maybe.

D.  He hasn't really talked about LB much aside from saying its a good draft for LBs

E.  Nugget from his last podcast.  WR still in play.  And they can still take a slot WR.  And move Samuel around as a chess piece from slot-outside.

 

If that isn't enough information for some.  It's cool.  For me, I think it gives me a decent perspective of what they are thinking.  I recall the draft where they were telegraphing they wanted a DT early and ditto RB.  That's how it played out.  As the draft got closer ironically their interest in names like Payne and Guice got leaked out.  I'd bet we will eventually hear specific names this time, too.  i doubt their board is 100% set, you got some major pro days still coming up. 

 

I think so too.  Mainly for two reasons:

 

A.  He's going to be good.  He's going to be better than a temp journeyman

 

B.  It's really hard to find a young franchise QB unless you are picking really high in the draft (which doesn't guarantee it either but gives you a stronger chance)

Thanks as always for the info, SIP.  DeDe Westbrook although he was injured as a possible slot WR.  T.Y. Hilton or Sammy Watkins not as slots.  The WR dept. is thin.  Samuel has been used at times as a RB and the WFT could us him in the Wildcat or as a RB at times here and there.  

 

There is a lot of mocks having us taking Trask in the 2nd round.  He has game and played well in the bowl game missing some talent and performed well.  He holds onto the ball too long at times, I have read as I haven't watch much of him and many have said he has a weak arm.  I really don't know a lot about him not having watched him.

 

Have you watch a lot of tape of him?  I know you don't really care for him.  Mond is really growing on me in the late 2nd/early 3rd round.

54 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

@RWJ

 

I'd add on Mac Jones, the way he said it, it wasn't that heavy handed.  I'd guess for him his pro day might be more telling than most.  There are questions for example about his arm strength, so if he puts on a clinic that might sway some people.  With all the prospects Alabama has, I'd bet every team including ours is heavily represented. 

 

 

This is what I am waiting for.  It will also be interesting to see if Turner shows up for Jones workout.  I would think, as you have said Mayhew, Hurney and Polian are there.  Wonder if RR shows too?