Rookie QB or Veteran QB for "Next Season"??? (I didn't bump this, but I ended up being wrong anyway....)

[DWinzit]

15 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

From my observation it seems all over the place depending on who is talking about it.  If I had to pick early or late based on what's being said, I think its been a little more buzz about early. But overall I don't think they are bent on doing it.  Feels like its sort of a Zen approach -- depends on how the board falls, the price, etc.

 

Rivera in his press conference almost seemed to be bemoaning the idea that he didn't expect a Qb would fall to 19.  He said something to the effect of if they like a QB they assume teams picking ahead of them like the same QB.  Among other things, it gives me the impression that they might be willing to leapfrog over other teams. 

 

If Schefter is right about don't expect fallers among the top 4, sounds like they likely have to trade into the top 5 if they are shooting for one of the top 4 QBs. 

If the right guy falls, they will try to jump to get them. Otherwise I think they have a guy in mind for little later. What is great is they don't have leaks so know one has an idea of their plans.

[Est.1974]

An observation I would make is that is didn’t sound like this was going to be Fitz’s last season in the league. Playing better than ever, still motivated and loving the game.

 

Clearly this season could go in several directions, but if he gets settled here and plays well, I would suggest there is a very good chance he’s around more than one year.

[88Comrade2000]

If this team wants sustained success; we will need to find that long term QBs.

 

The teams with sustained success have a long term QBs and if Rivera doesn’t want to get fired again; he will have to find that long term QBs in the next couple of years.

[KDawg]

2 minutes ago, Rdskns2000 said:

If this team wants sustained success; we will need to find that long term QBs.

 

The teams with sustained success have a long term QBs and if Rivera doesn’t want to get fired again; he will have to find that long term QBs in the next couple of years.

 

A few things here:

 

1) I agree with the premise.

 

2) There's nothing saying Fitz couldn't be the QB for the next five years with the way players are taking care of themselves nowadays. There is also nothing saying he's here beyond one year (to your point).

 

3) There's nothing saying Heinicke or Allen aren't the long term QB (nothing saying there is)

 

4) If a chance at a Justin Fields materializes I think this team is going to take a shot at acquiring him. Same with Lance. Those are the two I want most of the QB crew. Next year I like Rattler and Howell right now and a few others will emerge. People are saying its a weak QB class but I think its too early for that kind of conversation. 

[heyholetsgogrant]

13 hours ago, Anselmheifer said:

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/31086798/houston-texans-qb-deshaun-watson-accused-sexual-assault-third-civil-lawsuit
 

It looks like things are about to get really ugly for Watson. Good thing we didn’t trade Chase Young plus picks. Records forwarded to the police now. 
 

I wonder if this actually speeds him out the door next offseason. 
 

Edit: 

 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/03/18/lawyer-claims-he-has-nine-clients-with-claims-against-deshaun-watson/

 

Now 9 cases filed against him. 

I wonder if the league will suspend him?

[Anselmheifer]

5 minutes ago, heyholetsgogrant said:

I wonder if the league will suspend him?

I think if the police file charges, there’s a very good chance he sees a suspension 

[KDawg]

Remember when people wanted to throw away our whole draft for Watson?

 

If we made that offer and the Texans had accepted how ****ty would we feel right now?

 

If its true: We signed a dude with some major instabilities and gave away a metric piss ton to do it.

 

If it's false: The poor guy is going to be mired in this for years and will be virtually given away by Houston (in comparison to the ransom.

 

These situations are so difficult. I wish the parties involved the justice they all deserve. 

[Est.1974]

Getting a rookie QB contract on the books is clearly the desired option. 
 

Maybe that needs to be timed correctly. Keep Fitz for a couple of years, then once those big DL contracts come up, you get that rookie contract, year 1, in house.

 

If we go high end rookie QB now, that contract kind of runs close to the likes of Young, Sweat etc. 
 

Maybe not, I guess you can’t pass on one if they are there. But I think there is some merit on the rookie QB deal coming into play say 2023. Who’s knows. Might help create space to pay the others longer term.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

Sometimes a player out of nowhere in a draft emerges ala Murray, Burrow, etc.  But they also tend to go with the first pick in the draft which I doubt is in range for us.

 

Things can change from now and then -- for the moment i am pessimistic that the 2022 draft is the answer.  If I had to guess this now.  In order of what I think is most possible to least but I think all in play.

 

A.  Fitzpatrick plays well and they bring him back next season too.  They hope Henicke or Allen in house are the successors.

 

B.  They trade up for Fields or Lance in this draft.  I believe Schefter typically and if he's saying these dudes aren't falling past pick #7 then i'll buy it for now.  If so we'd be trading probably at least two first round picks and a 2nd -- probably that and change to do it.   Trading from 19 to 6 or 5 typically requires some serious draft capital.

 

C.  They add 2022 draft capital now to shoot for a veteran that hits the trade market next year or hope to get in range for a QB they like in that draft.

 

D.  they have their eye on some prospect that they think will fall past the first round.  If I had to guess one it would be Newman because of his raw ability-mobility and give him time to develop under Fitz

 

Overall the odds on us finding a franchise QB is low.  Just because its hard for every team.  We haven't done it in 25 plus years why should it be easy all of a sudden now.  Galdi had some good lines about it in one of his podcasts, that is,  its not that all of a sudden you decide one year this is the one we get our franchise QB as if you can time it.  It happens or it doesn't.    The good news in my own mind is that I am more optimistic than most that Fitzpatrick could be the answer here for the short term maybe for the following 2022 season, too.

 

 

Edited March 19, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Ruzious]

Ftizpatrick could be one of those rare players that plays well into their 40's.  He hasn't had a ton of wear and tear being a part-time starter, he's coming off a very fine year for him, he's a big strong guy, and hopefully he'll be playing on a good pass-blocking team this season that has a running game to help his play-action pass game. 

[Skinn]

Does anyone have thoughts on Davis Mills in the later rounds? I haven't seen much of him but watched some of his pro day. Looks physically like he has the tools to become a starter down the road.

sorry, I just saw that he was brought up in the draft thread

 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Hitman#21]

Doug always says too much lol

[Warhead36]

3 hours ago, Rdskns2000 said:

If this team wants sustained success; we will need to find that long term QBs.

 

The teams with sustained success have a long term QBs and if Rivera doesn’t want to get fired again; he will have to find that long term QBs in the next couple of years.

Of course but you can't force it either. That's how you end up with a Trebisky or Darnold.

 

There is merit to stacking the cupboards and waiting for a QB.

[Thinking Skins]

15 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Of course but you can't force it either. That's how you end up with a Trebisky or Darnold.

 

There is merit to stacking the cupboards and waiting for a QB.

There's also merit to the Packers philosophy of always drafting a QB. From 1990 to 1999 they drafted 8 QBs in the lower rounds

1990    9    Kirk Baumgartner
1992    9    Ty Detmer
1993    5    Mark Brunell
1995    5    Jay Barker
1996    7    Kyle Wachholtz
1997    7    Ron McAda
1998    6    Matt Hasselbeck
1999    4    Aaron Brooks

 

That's not a who's who of QBs but its also not a bunch of unknowns either. Not only were they able to either get comp picks or trade value with some of these guys but they were also low round picks and so they didn't cost much. 

 

I like our QBs because they are all low (7th round and UDFAs) so they've had to earn their keep in the league. And I'd like to think that if we spend a 3rd or later on a QB, that this player could be treated similarly. Maybe with the three we have, we are more likely to spend a 6th or later so it can be somebody we can stash on the PS behind KA, TH and RF but until we have THE GUY, I want to keep looking under every rock and around every corner to see if we see the guy. 

[88Comrade2000]

8 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Of course but you can't force it either. That's how you end up with a Trebisky or Darnold.

 

There is merit to stacking the cupboards and waiting for a QB.

If the team is winning, Rivera will get the time to find his long term QB. If he's losing; probably not. That's not even factoring, if we get a new owner.

If Fitz wins, he will be coming back and it will give us time, to get the long term qb.  As long as we are winning.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

I've heard now 3 national reporters say there is a small chance Wilson could get moved this year but its much more likely and borderline slam dunk it goes down next year

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

This has to be one of the weirdest arcs of a story about a Qb of all time.  Movie level craziness. 

 

 

 

[skinzplay]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

This has to be one of the weirdest arcs of a story about a Qb of all time.  Movie level craziness. 

 

 

 

 

Something smells fishy to me. Sexual assault in any form should be met with swift and severe legal consequences. But this is odd. None of the alleged victims filed a police report, but they all happened to call the exact same lawyer? Filing a false police report is a crime. Seeking a payday is not. We'll see how this shakes out. My gut tells me there is some coaching going on here, and it doesn't involve someone with a clipboard and headset.

[Thinking Skins]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

I'm no longer excited by a QBs 40 time. Sure I like 4.4 more than 5.2, but at some point its just a checkmark saying he can run. I'd hope that him being this fast doesn't make him try to run 10 times a game or something. And what I care about along with this is their accuracy on the run. 

[Skinsinparadise]

10 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

I'm no longer excited by a QBs 40 time. Sure I like 4.4 more than 5.2, but at some point its just a checkmark saying he can run. I'd hope that him being this fast doesn't make him try to run 10 times a game or something. And what I care about along with this is their accuracy on the run. 

 

I get the point.  But Fields speed is elite for a QB.  RG3 like.  4.4 isn't just like he can run as you say.  That's high end speed for ANY position. 

 

There is a difference between a QB with speed like that versus one with some mobility -- does he run a 4.65 or a 4.72 -- who cares?

 

Starting QBs who run 4.4 are unicorns.  I posted in the previous off season Fields's off season QB coach's comments who described Fields as an elite potential runner who is actually a dangerous passer, too.   If so, the combination is appealing.  And yeah for me if Fields ran a 4.7 it would take some of the luster away from Fields' potential as a runner.  4.4 RG3 level adds to his appeal. 

Edited March 19, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Thinking Skins]

Just now, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I get the point.  But Fields speed is elite for a QB.  RG3 like.

 

There is a difference between a QB with some mobility -- does he run a 4.65 or a 4.72 -- who cares?

 

Starting QBs who run 4.4 are unicorns.  I posted in the off season Fields's off season QB coaches comments who described Fields as an elite potential runner who is actually a dangerous passer, too.   If so, the combination is appealing.  And yeah for me if Fields ran a 4.7 it would take some of the luster away from Fields' potential as a runner.  4.4 RG3 level adds to his appeal. 

I get that, but lets remember that RG3 didn't work when we tried to change the offense. Speed is great, to an extent. I don't want my QB making 45 yard runs the norm. Sure its a nice highlight reel play but I want a QB that can get the ball out quickly to the playmakers, or if the play breaks down can scramble and find the blown coverage to make the TD pass. 

 

This is where I go with the convention. Its not that these more traditional running QBs "can't" win in the playoffs, but its so rare. Even Russell Wilson isn't a running QB (definitely not that type of speed), but he's a mobile QB who can keep a play alive. Same for Rodgers, Mahomes, etc. Jackson, Watson and Prescott have more running ability but they haven't had almost any playoff success. That's what I look at right now so its nice to have a Jackson weeks 1-17 but come week 19 or 20 or 21, I want a guy who can beat a pass rush or a QB spy. 

[Anselmheifer]

38 minutes ago, skinzplay said:

 

Something smells fishy to me. Sexual assault in any form should be met with swift and severe legal consequences. But this is odd. None of the alleged victims filed a police report, but they all happened to call the exact same lawyer? Filing a false police report is a crime. Seeking a payday is not. We'll see how this shakes out. My gut tells me there is some coaching going on here, and it doesn't involve someone with a clipboard and headset.

Most victims of sexual assault don’t file a police report. It’s traumatic to go to court and have your name and sexual history dragged through the mud in order to sew doubt about your character. 
 

The reason the 9 women are using the same lawyer is not that the women went to the lawyer. I’m sure the lawyer got the complaint from the one woman and then went through a process of interviewing or making himself available to other workers of the same facility or in the same geographic area. 
 

To me, this sounds like a Bill Cosby/Donald Trump/Bill Clinton situation. When multiple, multiple women are making the same complaint, it’s usually not fabricated. It’s usually a pattern of behavior. Also, that wasn’t a political comment. I think both sides of the aisle, and wealthy and powerful men in general, are often prone to these behaviors.