Rookie QB or Veteran QB for "Next Season"??? (I didn't bump this, but I ended up being wrong anyway....)

[CapsSkins]

Gruden just re-signed Nathan Peterman, meaning Mariota is probably available (if not Carr). Definitely could see us in on one of those two LV QBs. I doubt with their cap situation that they roster three guys at the position so feels like someone is going to be available.

[RWJ]

13 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

Gruden just re-signed Nathan Peterman, meaning Mariota is probably available (if not Carr). Definitely could see us in on one of those two LV QBs. I doubt with their cap situation that they roster three guys at the position so feels like someone is going to be available.

I have to agree and hope that it's Carr. 

[Conn]

I feel very confident that a cheap re-signing of Nathan Peterman (lol) signals exactly nothing except that they want to keep a familiar body in the building. Taking it as a sign of anything involving Carr or Mariota would just be the definition of wishcasting. 

[RWJ]

8 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

I feel very confident that a cheap re-signing of Nathan Peterman (lol) signals exactly nothing except that they want to keep a familiar body in the building. Taking it as a sign of anything involving Carr or Mariota would just be the definition of wishcasting. 

The Raiders are cash strapped to some degree and there MAY be thoughts of trading Carr to free up cap space to sign players on the D side of the ball.  Their D is horrible and they need cap relief to help in that department.  

Edited February 5, 2021 by RWJ

[PartyPosse]

3 hours ago, heyholetsgogrant said:

6 hours ago, PartyPosse said:

 

Jones was a 1st round pick swap in 2011, along with their 2012 1st (so technically it wasn’t two first round picks):

Well, it was two first round picks. Just like Mahomes was.

[Going Commando]

4 hours ago, joeken24 said:

It's pretty clear. A franchise QB is hard to find. We aren't the only one with this problem. 

 

They are made, not found.  The league is terrible at supporting and developing QB prospects.  Beyond that, good quarterbacks are changing teams because coach and front office instability drives them out of town.

[Dark Acre]

10 hours ago, The Consigliere said:

The only thing crazier than trading Chase Young is pretending that Chase Young is untouchable

The Red Sox said the same thing about Babe Ruth....

[Est.1974]

3 hours ago, RWJ said:

The Raiders are cash strapped to some degree and there MAY be thoughts of trading Carr to free up cap space to sign players on the D side of the ball.  Their D is horrible and they need cap relief to help in that department.  

The Raiders have a load of contracts they can easily restructure/extend to sort their cap situation out.

 

However, I think the greater point is that Carr is due 20mil and Mariota is due 11mil. Doesn’t seem that logical/wise to carry both of those contracts in 2021. 

[Koolblue13]

6 hours ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

Could Jimmy Moreland be the next Kendall Fuller 1.0 ?

Bringing it up in the QB thread, just to make sure we don't do Moreland, like we did with Fuller, and trade him for an old QB, since we happen to be in the market again 😉

 

 

 

I figured Moreland had a really good year, because fans have been bringing his name up as being someone that we need to replace. He's a great slot CB.

 

Standing next to the smartest guy on the team, Nick mother ****ing Sunberg.

[Darrell Green Fan]

6 hours ago, CjSuAvE22 said:

Yeah but whose to say Stafford makes us a contender...his history is 3 playoff appearances in 11 years along with mediocrity when it comes down to wins and loses ...ill take my chances with the 4 picks we woulda given up to get him amd drafted a qb with all 4 picks...the rams fans will hate this trade by this time next year

 

Even if he didn't make them contenders they would have at least had an established NFL QB. You saw the list of first round QBs and how only Wentz is still on the team that drafted him (for now).  And then there are the odds of finding a QB better than Stafford after round 1, they are off the charts.  

Edited February 5, 2021 by Darrell Green Fan

[DWinzit]

7 hours ago, KDawg said:

 rE: QBs being over drafted/Lance:

 

Lance would be a high upside second or third rounder with his film and athletic prowess but a lack of a true body of work. Probably second. Similar to his OT, Radunz. 
 

in my head I kept going. Wilson in the teens, Lance in the 30s. 
 

Another thing that stood out, but off topic: The defensive guys don’t rank all that high in this draft. I think Moehrig could be the best defensive player in the draft. Followed by Collins.

Lance ranked in the 30's makes sense. 

 

In October Jones was a solid 3rd rounder. He boosted himself with good play in his final 3 games. He can't be ranked higher that Lance though right? I mean it sure looks like he will be drafted top 20.

 

Staying with your off topic remark: it is a strange draft on the defensive side, no top ranked players but a mass of them from the late 1st through the 3rd round

[Koolblue13]

8 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

Lance ranked in the 30's makes sense. 

 

In October Jones was a solid 3rd rounder. He boosted himself with good play in his final 3 games. He can't be ranked higher that Lance though right? I mean it sure looks like he will be drafted top 20.

 

Staying with your off topic remark: it is a strange draft on the defensive side, no top ranked players but a mass of them from the late 1st through the 3rd round

They'll all be gone by 15

[Est.1974]

I think the reality is that we need to ‘pay’ more than we would ideally like to in order to address the QB position. The trade off being that we won the division and appeared to turn a significant corner as a roster.

 

So we end up at #19 on what appears to be the outer edge of QBs range in the draft, probably running to Chicago/Indy in the low 20’s.

 

A free agent is going to cost, a rookie will more than likely require an aggressive trade costing picks. That’s just the way it has fallen, whether we like the cost or not. 
 

Won’t be any better next offseason so let’s just bite the bullet and get on with it.

[DWinzit]

20 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

They'll all be gone by 15

Oh yeah more than likely, goes back to my over drafting of QB's comment. A bunch of trade packages will be put together for teams to move into the top 5 in order to get a guy ranked in the 30's with limited play time or to get to 15 to draft a guys probably ranked in the 50's. 

[CjSuAvE22]

57 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

Even if he didn't make them contenders they would have at least had an established NFL QB. You saw the list of first round QBs and how only Wentz is still on the team that drafted him (for now).  And then there are the odds of finding a QB better than Stafford after round 1, they are off the charts.  

Ok but, 10 qbs have won a super bowl since 2008 of those 10 7 are first rounders the goal here should be to win a super bowl not to peak the interest of fans just enough to shower us with 6-10-9-7 seasons, trading multiple firsts for older qbs has a poor history of getting the job done, if we truly have turned a corner amd RR is in charge along with executives that can find talent i think taking next step for us will be finding a young qb that can play within our system of football. 

[Koolblue13]

1 minute ago, CjSuAvE22 said:

Ok but, 10 qbs have won a super bowl since 2008 of those 10 7 are first rounders the goal here should be to win a super bowl not to peak the interest of fans just enough to shower us with 6-10-9-7 seasons, trading multiple firsts for older qbs has a poor history of getting the job done, if we truly have turned a corner amd RR is in charge along with executives that can find talent i think taking next step for us will be finding a young qb that can play within our system of football. 

You realize that 100% of people are on board with this right? 100%. Every single person wants a SB every single year. Every single person wants a franchise QB on our team every single year. All of us. 

[Rufus T Firefly]

13 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

If so he did a poor job at that.  I'd love to see some of the ex-coaches, personnel guys who left here pull no punches the way Jay did.  Casserly is always sucking up to Dan.  Heck even Shanny somewhat defended Dan as for his involvement with the team saying it was a rare thing.  Jay flat out said Dan was heavily involved.

Wow. Dan was heavily involved. Brutal stuff.

 

Did he say anything bad about any QBs, or did he only say positives lie what you posted earlier? Because that was my point. 

[Thinking Skins]

9 hours ago, SonnySideUp said:

Drafting QB's is almost always a crap shoot. Andrew Luck, was drafted 1st in 2012 and RG3 was drafted 2nd in the same draft. Look where they are now? Luck is not even in the league anymore and RG3 just got cut as 3rd string QB by the Ravens (where he was lucky to even get a job as 3rd string QB).

 

On the other hand Kirk Cousins, who was drafted in the 4th round of the same draft RG3 was drafted in is the starting QB of the Vikings, no slouch of a team. Tom Brady wasn't drafted until the sixth round and I don't even have to mention where he is now.

 

Forrest Gump would probably say that drafting QB's is like a box of chocolates, you never know what your gonna get.

 

I'm probably the biggest proponent of late round and UDFA QBs on the board but this is just misleading. Luck is out of the league because he was tired of getting hurt but dude was easily the second best QB of the 2012 draft class (behind Wilson). 

 

The problem is that QB is probably the most overdrafted position. And each coach, GM, scout and fan has their own idea of what they want in a QB, from arm strength, ability to make all the throws, mobility, ability to read a defense, throwing motion, ability to hit in stride, experience, experience in a pro system, durability, leadership, maturity, size, etc. And how they rate these things becomes such a mystery too. But we see a guy like Jones who is probably at best the 5th best QB of this draft class and he may go in the first round because teams are needy at QB and so they try to make an argument as to why he's a better prospect than he really is, or why his upside is higher than it really is, or why his floor is higher than it really is. 

 

This is only complicated by things like the NFL adopting more college style systems - more shotgun snaps, more read options, more RPO, fewer reads and these systems that are supposed to be easier to play for a QB. This supposedly makes it easier for a rookie to come in and play and play well. But we still see QBs, particularly QBs who are not mobile struggle. There are exceptions like Burrow but look at the rookies who have done decent to well: 

 - Hurts 

 - Murray

 - Jones

 - Baker

 - Allen

 - Jackson

 - Darnold

 - Watson

 - Mahomes

 - Trubisky

 - Prescott

 - Wentz

 

For some of these guys, they have been able to use that mobility to get better as QBs overall. For others its kept them as starters and maybe they'll grow into a real good QB or maybe they'll just be a nimble backup. 

 

But I wouldn't paint it as a simple low round vs first round QB. Maybe I could have done a similar thing with arm strength or accuracy or leadership but I think a key would be to not overdraft some of these guys because they have something we like. I'd garner that we can get one of Jones, Newman, Trask or Mond in the second and have it not be a reach. Of those guys I think Newman and Mond are the two more mobile QBs with Newman having a higher ceiling and Mond with the higher floor. 

[heyholetsgogrant]

6 hours ago, PartyPosse said:

Well, it was two first round picks. Just like Mahomes was.

One 1st rd pick was a pick swap for Mahomes, Julio Jones included a swapped 1st rounder as well. I’m talking about two FULL first rounders, no swaps, like Jay Cutler, Hershel Walker,Jeff George, etc.  Most of those trades have not worked out.  

 

With the price of QB’s today, in order to move up we would probably have to swap a 1st AND give up two future 1st rounders.

Edited February 5, 2021 by heyholetsgogrant

[Skinsinparadise]

Sheehan pushing trading a first for Darnold on the radio, I might have to change my listening habits until we get a QB to maintain my sanity.

 

His refrain is the same one I hear all the time:  The Jets stink and Darnold was a high draft pick so case closed.

 

IMO that's ridiculous.  Sell me on him as the player versus the abstract idea that a high draft pick playing for a bad team gets a complete out for playing poorly.  Sell me on the actual player.  Otherwise there are plenty of cases of high draft picks busting for bad teams.  Almost evey high round bust (and there have been plenty) played for a bad team and nope almost none of them eventually succeeded where they were at or moved on to another team and became successful.  Rosen, Gabbert, Ponder, Manuel, Locker, Bortles, Sanchez on and on. 

 

If we want reclamation projects that were high draft picks heck at least we maybe could get Winston, Trubisky for free or Mariota cheaper.  I don't see why Darnold gets special privileges just because the Jets were bad.

 

Darnold had a 63% completion percentage for his last year in college which isn't that hot in college terms. His big problem in college was INTs and fumbles. OK lets go to the NFL.  His completion percentage has been under 60% -- that's pretty hard to do when you got one of the lowest YPA in the league at the same time.    And his problem in the NFL in addition to that has been INTs and fumbles.  Shocker. 

 

https://thejetpress.com/2021/01/10/ny-jets-trigger-trade-sam-darnold/

Darnold finished his 2020 campaign throwing for just nine touchdowns to 11 interceptions. The 23-year-old only completed 59 percent of his passes and a sub-par 6.1 yards per attempt. He ranked last in QBR, with a horrible 40.7 rating.

 

 

In his first three years, Darnold has been extremely inconsistent. He only averaged 184 yards per game this past season and at times looked like nothing more than a game manager.

 

Darnold regressed drastically this season. His mechanics, pocket awareness, and decision making did not improve under former head coach Adam Gase and that became painfully obvious as the months went on.

Darnold still makes terrible decisions that led to awful interceptions. He also missed a stretch of games for the third straight season — he’s yet to put together a 16-game season.

 

The former No. 3 overall pick will be going into his fourth year in 2021. The Jets would have to decide if they want to pick up his fifth-year option which will be worth up to $25 million. Sticking with Darnold would be an unnecessary financial risk.

 

 

30 minutes ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

Wow. Dan was heavily involved. Brutal stuff.

 

Did he say anything bad about any QBs, or did he only say positives lie what you posted earlier? Because that was my point. 

 

He did get into specifics about how he was interferred with and if you think that was nothing, OK, to each their own. 😀   But nope if you wanted him to rip the QBs he had in house, he didn't do that aside from saying he knew Kirk wanted out and hence wanted to trade him but he wasn't allowed to do it. 

Edited February 5, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[heyholetsgogrant]

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Sheehan pushing trading a first for Darnold on the radio, I might have to change my listening habits until we get a QB to maintain my sainity.

 

His refrain is the same one I hear all the time:  The Jets stink and Darnold was a high draft pick so case closed.

 

IMO that's ridiculous sell me on him on the player versus the abstract idea that high draft pick playing for a bad team gets a complete out for playing poorly.  Sell me on the actual player.  Otherwise there are plenty of cases of high draft picks busting for bad teams.  Almost evey high round bust (and there have been plenty) played for a bad team and nope almost none of them eventually succeed where they were at or moved on to another team and became successful.  Rosen, Gabbert, Ponder, Manuel, Locker, Bortles, Sanchez.

 

If we want reclamation projects that were high draft picks heck at least we maybe could get Winston, Trubisky for free or Mariota cheaper.  I don't see why Darnold gets special privileges just because the Jets were even worse than the other players teams at the time.

 

Darnold has a 63% completion percentage for his last year in college which isn't that hot in college terms. His big problem in college was INTs and fumbles. OK lets go to the NFL.  His completion percentagehas been under 60% -- that's pretty hard to do when you got one of the lowest YPA in the league at the same time.    And his problem in the NFL in addition to that has been INTs and fumbles.  Shocker. 

 

https://thejetpress.com/2021/01/10/ny-jets-trigger-trade-sam-darnold/

Darnold finished his 2020 campaign throwing for just nine touchdowns to 11 interceptions. The 23-year-old only completed 59 percent of his passes and a sub-par 6.1 yards per attempt. He ranked last in QBR, with a horrible 40.7 rating.

 

 

In his first three years, Darnold has been extremely inconsistent. He only averaged 184 yards per game this past season and at times looked like nothing more than a game manager.

 

Darnold regressed drastically this season. His mechanics, pocket awareness, and decision making did not improve under former head coach Adam Gase and that became painfully obvious as the months went on.

Darnold still makes terrible decisions that led to awful interceptions. He also missed a stretch of games for the third straight season — he’s yet to put together a 16-game season.

 

The former No. 3 overall pick will be going into his fourth year in 2021. The Jets would have to decide if they want to pick up his fifth-year option which will be worth up to $25 million. Sticking with Darnold would be an unnecessary financial risk.

 

 

 

He did get into specifics about how he was interferred with and if you think that was nothing, OK, to each their own. 😀   But nope if you wanted him to rip the QBs he had in house, he didn't do that aside from saying he knew Kirk wanted out and hence wanted to trade him but he wasn't allowed to do it. 

I haven’t watched much Darnold, but I looked at a 2020 highlight video.  His mechanics are terrible for a 4th year QB. 
 

 

[KDawg]

I don’t know why people keep watching Darnold to try to convince themselves it’s a good move or a possible move.

 

It’s not. If it happens I will have very significant and vocal reservations. 
 

 

[Est.1974]

29 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

The former No. 3 overall pick will be going into his fourth year in 2021. The Jets would have to decide if they want to pick up his fifth-year option which will be worth up to $25 million. Sticking with Darnold would be an unnecessary financial risk.

This has to be decided by May. The 5th year option ‘language’ did change in the new CBA, however in principle trading a first for Darnold makes no sense whatsoever.

 

I mean, trading for him full stop makes no sense whatsoever.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

23 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I don’t know why people keep watching Darnold to try to convince themselves it’s a good move or a possible move.

 

It’s not. If it happens I will have very significant and vocal reservations. 

Not only that, but just hearing anyone say we should trade a first round pick for him, makes me want to start violently screaming obscenities.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

15 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Not only that, but just hearing anyone say we should trade a first round pick for him, makes me want to start violently screaming obscenities.

 

Yeah the 1st round pick actually makes no sense considering the risk that a team takes on. You get him for cheap in 2021 but then you have to either extend him on a fluky 2021 (if it's good), franchise him, or take a huge risk and commit $25m guaranteed to him before he plays a snap for you.