Rookie QB or Veteran QB for "Next Season"??? (I didn't bump this, but I ended up being wrong anyway....)

[carex]

5 minutes ago, The Consigliere said:

 

I know this. The poster made reference to him being the best player in the draft. Now, in retrospect, he definitely wouldn't go top 2. Herbert would go 1, and Burrow 2. That's my point. Obviously last year, there were a ton of question marks (though in fairness, going into the season he was the #2 ranked QB in that class, it's just Burrow turned in one of the best, if not the best seasons in the history of college football, while Herbert didn't improve significantly if at all, and so his stock ticked down a touch). 

why would you switch? 

[Skinsinparadise]

12 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

 

I heard both those sources. One was Finlay who mentioned it somewhat off-handedly in his podcast after the WC game and the other was I think Keim. I don't think it's their chief concern. It's one of them, but I don't think they're looking at him purely as a backup. I think they'd rather have an upgrade if they can find one, but I think they'd say it's quite plausible TH can be the guy if he shows enough in camp (re: both durability and sustained performance).

 

Finlay flat out said on the air today that they are looking at him purely as a backup.  He said it bluntly and directly.    As for you not thinking its their chief concern, no way to know.  

 

I recall you are big on Heinicke.  Look I would be big on him too if I felt Rivera and the FO was sold on him as the top guy.  But that's not the sense I get.  I do think though they like him as a backup and as Finlay said today that the #2 QB is a big deal to them. 

 

Your point seems to be if they can't find a guy in the off season then he'd have a shot to win the starting job.  I agree.  It's possible that they don't find an upgrade and end up stuck with who they have in house.  If that happens i am OK with them starting Heinicke and if he gets knocked out with some big time injury so be it 

Edited February 5, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[CapsSkins]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Finlay flat out said on the air today that they are looking at him purely as a backup.  He said it bluntly and directly.    As for you not thinking its their chief concern, no way to know.  

 

I recall you are big on Heinicke.  Look I would be big on him too if I felt Rivera and the FO was sold on him as the top guy.  But that's not the sense I get.  I do think though they like him as a backup and as Finlay said today that the #2 QB is a big deal to them. 

 

Your point seems to be if they can't find a guy in the off season then he'd have a shot to win the starting job.  I agree.  It's possible that they don't find an upgrade and end up stuck with who they have in house.  If that happens i am OK with them starting Heinicke and if he gets knocked out with some big time injury so be it 

 

Yup. Being a Heinicke supporter to me informs willingness to pay in other deals. By that I mean, I'm not trading a 2nd or 3rd round pick for Sam Darnold when I have Heinicke on the roster. I'd rather bet on Taylor and keep the pick. If we lose out on all the big names, as I think we very well might, belief in Heinicke makes a potentially substantial difference in how you approach pursuing lower tier guys. 

[Skinsinparadise]

14 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

Who is that woman?  I don't watch these shows but that may need to change. 

 

Kay Adams, she's good looking, and knows her football too.  

[Stefanskins]

19 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

@RWJ

 

lol, just for you Rivera did say here he does have a specific plan for QB. 😀

 

 

 

Jesus, that's one of the most beautiful women I've ever seen!

[Burgundy Yoda]

46 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

There’s a better chance Cousins would be flat out released than he gets traded for a first. No team wants him despite reports of the contrary. Minny signed him because they thought like so many here - that you put him in an ideal situation and he’ll thrive. He didn’t. And no other team will make the same mistake. If SF foolishly vies for his services, it’ll destroy that team.

 

no one will give up a first for Darnold. Wentz, I believe a team will. It’s not like he’s David Carr who was ruined almost immediately because Houston’s line couldn’t protect him. Wentz has success in the NfL. He’s shell-shocked now but a competent offensive line and traditional run game like in Indy would be the ideal cure for his temporary mental fragility. It’s not like it’s a top ten pick. It’s still a late first. The difference between a question mark cornerback (for example) and a competent QB.

Apart from the 49ers which you even mention in your post. There's no way Cousins gets released, that's ridiculous. Indianapolis reportedly didn't even offer their 1st for Stafford so I would be surprised if they do it for Wentz. There's no way he has as much value as Stafford has. I would have mixed feelings if they did though, on one hand it takes a QB needy team off the market, on the other hand they just gave the Eagles some solid draft capital. 

Edited February 5, 2021 by Burgundy Yoda

[Skinsinparadise]

10 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

 

Yup. Being a Heinicke supporter to me informs willingness to pay in other deals. By that I mean, I'm not trading a 2nd or 3rd round pick for Sam Darnold when I have Heinicke on the roster. I'd rather bet on Taylor and keep the pick. If we lose out on all the big names, as I think we very well might, belief in Heinicke makes a potentially substantial difference in how you approach pursuing lower tier guys. 

 

I don't think anyone on this thread isn't a Heinicke supporter.  But for me I want whatever Rivera wants.  And that goes double for the guys he has in house.   I figure he would have a zillion more data points on his own players than we would especially for a guy like Heinicke who he had in two different stints.  I've not yet gotten the impression that he thinks he's the QB1.  but I buy that he likes him a lot as a backup.  If it feels like that narrative changes than I will change with that.

 

The two criticisms of Heinicke seems to be

 

A.  Short sample.  1.25 games here where he was good.  1 game in Carolina where he was bad.

B.  Durability

 

I am a Heinicke guy as for category A.   I'll go nuts and blow off the Carolina game and ride with 1.25 games and say he's not the next Matt Flynn, Scott Mitchell, etc.

 

But hearing they have durability concerns and are also looking for a different starter got my attention.  That to me is a strong 1-2 punch.  And to my eyes yeah Heinicke does look like having a Colt Mccoy kind of physique who can be split open by a big dude crushing him. So that's my concern about him.

 

 

10 minutes ago, Stefanskins said:

Jesus, that's one of the most beautiful women I've ever seen!

 

Surprised people here haven't seen that show, its been on for years.  

Edited February 5, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[CapsSkins]

7 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I don't think anyone on this thread isn't a Heinicke supporter.  But for me I want whatever Rivera wants.  And that goes double for the guys he has in house.   I figure he would have a zillion more data points on his own players than we would especially for a guy like Heinicke who he had in two different stints.  I've not yet gotten the impression that he thinks he's the QB1.  but I buy that he likes him a lot as a backup.  If it feels like that narrative changes than I will change with that.

 

The two criticisms of Heinicke seems to be

 

A.  Short sample.  1.25 games here where he was good.  1 game in Carolina where he was bad.

B.  Durability

 

I am a Heinicke guy as for category A.   I'll go nuts and blow off the Carolina game and ride with 1.25 games and say he's not the next Matt Flynn, Scott Mitchell, etc.

 

But hearing they have durability concerns and are also looking for a different starter got my attention.  That to me is a strong 1-2 punch.  And to my eyes yeah Heinicke does look like having a Colt Mccoy kind of physique who can be split open by a big dude crushing him. So that's my concern about him.

 

Yeah, I don't really disagree with any of the above. Right now, I'm not "sold" on him as QB1, either. I really hope he puts on some muscle over the offseason. You gotta think he's been made very aware of that concern, either by the staff directly or by his agent. But man, just imagine if he does actually start playing 10% less recklessly and stays healthy... it would an absolute godsend. Finding a younger franchise guy for cheap without giving up any assets - not even a pick to use on the guy!  What a game-change that would be.

[Skinsinparadise]

31 minutes ago, heyholetsgogrant said:

Takeaways:

"We have a plan for QB"
"We want to emulate the Andy Reid model"  🤔...Reid had a QB's though - McNabb, Smith, and Now Mahomes. 

 

The part about emulating the Andy Reid model was said in the context of being a winning team/SBs he didn't say it specifically in the context of QB.   But yeah you never know maybe he liked everything he did including trading up for a young QB. 

Edited February 5, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[PartyPosse]

12 minutes ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

Apart from the 49ers which you even mention in your post. There's no way Cousins gets released, that's ridiculous. Indianapolis reportedly didn't even offer their 1st for Stafford so I would be surprised if they do it for Wentz. There's no way he has as much value as Stafford has. I would have mixed feelings if they did though, on one hand it takes a QB needy team off the market, on the other hand they just gave the Eagles some solid draft capital. 

I didn’t say he would get released. I said there’s a better chance he gets released than Minny gets a first. 
 

Im a little surprised Indy didn’t offer a first but they may have not been that enamored with the idea of an older QB again. 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 minute ago, CapsSkins said:

 

Yeah, I don't really disagree with any of the above. Right now, I'm not "sold" on him as QB1, either. I really hope he puts on some muscle over the offseason. You gotta think he's been made very aware of that concern, either by the staff directly or by his agent. But man, just imagine if he does actually start playing 10% less recklessly and stays healthy... it would an absolute godsend. Finding a younger franchise guy for cheap without giving up any assets - not even a pick to use on the guy!  What a game-change that would be.

 

I agree. I'd love it.  But their seemingly hesitation makes me likewise hesitant. 

 

I'd say Heinicke had a good week at least for me as for hearing things.  As I mentioned Rivera mentioned his leadership.  And said Heinicke's name more than Kyle Allen.  Finlay said today he'd bet on Heincike even more than the other two QBs as for being on the roster next year.  

[The Consigliere]

32 minutes ago, carex said:

why would you switch? 

Because Herbert hit and a franchise QB is worth vastly more than any other position. 

[Est.1974]

11 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

The part about emulating the Andy Reid model was said in the context of being a winning team/SBs he didn't say it specifically in the context of QB.   But yeah you never know maybe he liked everything he did including trading up for a young QB. 

Having bid for Stafford it must elude to more that trading up.

[Burgundy Yoda]

14 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

I didn’t say he would get released. I said there’s a better chance he gets released than Minny gets a first. 
 

Im a little surprised Indy didn’t offer a first but they may have not been that enamored with the idea of an older QB again. 

I've noticed Indy values draft picks highly so I could see them not feeling the need to overpay, for really anything honestly. Ballard is a really good GM and they draft extremely well. 

Edited February 5, 2021 by Burgundy Yoda

[Est.1974]

16 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

 

Yeah, I don't really disagree with any of the above. Right now, I'm not "sold" on him as QB1, either. I really hope he puts on some muscle over the offseason. You gotta think he's been made very aware of that concern, either by the staff directly or by his agent. But man, just imagine if he does actually start playing 10% less recklessly and stays healthy... it would an absolute godsend. Finding a younger franchise guy for cheap without giving up any assets - not even a pick to use on the guy!  What a game-change that would be.

We offered a #1 and #3 for Stafford. Heinicke is not the future. He was Turners COVID reserve on speed dial. Zero chance he is remotely perceived as a #1. Honestly, zero. Great short term/emergency backup resource though.

[CapsSkins]

Just now, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

Zero chance he is remotely perceived as a #1. Honestly, zero.

 

You are not in a position to know this. You're free to have your own personal perception of him, of course. 

[PartyPosse]

6 minutes ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

I've noticed Indy values draft picks highly so I could see them not feeling the need to overpay, for really anything honestly. Ballard is a really good GM and they draft extremely well. 

From a player standpoint they’re really the AFC version of us. A young talented team with a gaping hole at QB. They have the cap space to take chances now and at some point they’re going to have to step outside their comfort zone. Rivers wasn’t the answer obviously and there’s not even a Rivers available in FA this year.

2 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

 

You are not in a position to know this. You're free to have your own personal perception of him, of course. 

If the team goes into camp with the expectation that he’s the #1 then we’re in trouble. 

[Est.1974]

9 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

 

You are not in a position to know this. You're free to have your own personal perception of him, of course. 

 
we offered a #1 and #3 for Stafford. The over the top reaction to Heinicke’s short stint a QB is mind blowing to me. Backup capability, yes. #1....madness.

[carex]

22 minutes ago, The Consigliere said:

Because Herbert hit and a franchise QB is worth vastly more than any other position. 

 

well disagree.  But why would you switch Herbert and Burrow?

[kingdaddy]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Finlay flat out said on the air today that they are looking at him purely as a backup.  He said it bluntly and directly.    As for you not thinking its their chief concern, no way to know.  

 

I recall you are big on Heinicke.  Look I would be big on him too if I felt Rivera and the FO was sold on him as the top guy.  But that's not the sense I get.  I do think though they like him as a backup and as Finlay said today that the #2 QB is a big deal to them. 

 

Your point seems to be if they can't find a guy in the off season then he'd have a shot to win the starting job.  I agree.  It's possible that they don't find an upgrade and end up stuck with who they have in house.  If that happens i am OK with them starting Heinicke and if he gets knocked out with some big time injury so be it 

Logically, you would think the real Heinicke is somewhere between what we saw in the TB game and an unproven kid with potential but with NFL question marks, durability among them. That being said, you can't hand him the starting job but you keep him around and let it play out.

[Est.1974]

Personally, Stafford was the ideal scenario in our current circumstances. I’m now won over by the appeal of Carr. Think that has potential, but the price is a concern.

 

The draft, Lance is the one I’d really hope we can get. In that situation we still need to double up with a vet.

[Andre The Giant]

Assuming this is referring to Wentz:

 

 

[ExoDus84]

3 hours ago, HigSkin said:

 

 

Michael Phillips over here really saying Flacco is a great quarterback makes me wonder how many elicit substances he is currently beholden to.

[The Consigliere]

17 minutes ago, carex said:

 

well disagree.  But why would you switch Herbert and Burrow?

 

Herbert produced a top 15 season despite playing with a defense that was a mess and an offense that had no playmakers play a full 16 game schedule and all but one only managed a max of 11 starts. Despite that he was excellent for a majority of the season (did have a dip if memory serves around late october to late november), and unlike Burrow, he didn't take a billion hits a game behind horrific blocking (5.1% sack rate to 7.3%). 

 

I get nervous when QB's are brutalized by incompetent line play in front of them. 

 

Lastly though, seriously? You wouldn't take Herbert now over Young? I'm astonished at that. Young is awesome, no disagreement there, but a locked in franchise QB? There's just zero question what matters more. I guess you're quibbling more with my depiction of Herbert's current status. 

[ExoDus84]

11 minutes ago, Andre The Giant said:

Assuming this is referring to Wentz:

 

 

 

Eagles got the Head Coach and GM on different lines right now, having them one-upping each other.