Rookie QB or Veteran QB for "Next Season"??? (I didn't bump this, but I ended up being wrong anyway....)

[CommDownMan]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I get the Miami games here, I've watched plenty of Tannehill and to a lesser extent Darnold.  Miami wasn't loaded the whole time Tannehill was there.  They mostly actually had a bad O line and not the best running game.   Tannehill looked decent but always seemed to leave you wanting more.  His issue was he wasn't a gamer, he struggled with the game on the line.  They put a lot on his shoulders though.   Darnold's similar to Ryan pre Gase?    Tannehill's typical year wasn't like a close to 1:1 TD-INT ratio, 57% completion rate and under 3000 yards like Darnold was pre Gase.

 

Darnold to me is a game manager with accuracy issues who makes a ton of mistakes.  

 

No, I was referring to the comment about the Gase effect on Darnold.  I'm saying Darnold vs Darnold wasn't that different (2018 was pre-Gase).  Could have multi quoted, but didn't.  Sorry that wasn't clear.

[Skinsinparadise]

7 minutes ago, jsharrin55 said:

 

No, I was referring to the comment about the Gase effect on Darnold.  I'm saying Darnold vs Darnold wasn't that different (2018 was pre-Gase).  Could have multi quoted, but didn't.  Sorry that wasn't clear.

 

OK, sorry I mistook the point.  😀

[KDawg]

I actually don’t blame Gase for the Jets situation.

 

I think he’s probably had his last chance as a NFL HC and rightfully so... not sure how many more chances he can get and not get it done in before teams stop trying... but...

 

The Jets as an organization are a mess. Day one the HC and GM didn’t like each other and it turned into a giant failed experiment. 
 

So while I think Gase shares some blame for that abomination, I don’t think he’s the sole reason for their struggles and nor do I believe he halted Darnold’s development. I see the same guy in the pros that I saw when he was in college. 
 

A decent QB if surrounded with excellent talent. Below average or worse if his talent isn’t among league best. 

[Skinsinparadise]

This post is almost a perfect combination of material to buck up @Koolblue13's guy and apparently Jay Gruden's guy too at the expense of the QB I want the least. 

 

I've said before I'd easily go Winston (even though he's not my top FA choice if we went with a FA) over Darnold. 

 

https://nesn.com/2021/02/patriots-mailbag-are-jameis-winston-or-sam-darnold-possibilities-at-qb/

 

@MarkJohnBennett
There are top 12 drafted QBs available. What is it about Jameis Winston that caused him to be drafted #1, but no longer a hot prospect now?
It’s pretty crazy, right?

Matthew Stafford gets dealt for two first-round picks, a third-rounder and Jared Goff. Sam Darnold reportedly could command a late first-round pick. The reported asking price for Derek Carr is two first-round picks. Meanwhile, Winston signed a one-year contract for $1.1 million with the New Orleans Saints as a free agent last offseason.

Here’s how those quarterbacks rank (out of 35 passers) in EPA+CPOE (expected points added plus completion percentage over expected) since 2015:

Winston: 14th
Carr: 17th
Stafford: 19th
Darnold: 35th

 

Here’s where they rank since 2018 (out of 26 QBs):

Carr: 10th
Winston: 14th
Stafford: 18th
Darnold: 26th

 

Winston’s 30 interceptions (which EPA accounts for) in 2019 don’t help, and they couldn’t have come at a worse time before the QB hit free agency last offseason. That season also was an anomaly. Winston had thrown 15, 18, 11 and 14 interceptions in his first four NFL seasons. Winston has a 1.38:1 touchdown-to-interception ratio compared to Darnold’s 1.15:1 mark. Winston (3.4 percent) and Darnold’s (3.2 percent) interception rates are similar.

 

It just feels like there has to be some bias involved here, right? How could Darnold, who’s been absolutely awful over the first three years of his career, be considered more valuable than Winston when every possible metric says otherwise? It doesn’t make a lick of sense.

It seems like the Saints are looking to hold onto Winston this offseason, so his market could heat up in free agency.

 

He’s certainly worth a flier and should be an NFL starter based on his first five seasons in the league.

One more factor here: Winston went 26-of-46 for 334 yards with a touchdown in his one game against New England. Darnold has a 46.4 passer

rating in his three starts against the Patriots. And one of those came while Darnold was “seeing ghosts” 10 days before Halloween in 2019.

 

Maybe not the sexiest option at QB for the Patriots in 2021, but if the Jets were to go in a different direction at QB themselves, what do you think is reasonable compensation for Darnold? One of their 4th round compensatory picks?
ESPN’s Adam Schefter predicted this week that Darnold would garner a late first-round pick in a trade, so that should remove him from any consideration. I know Darnold hasn’t been in the best situation, but he has essentially been the worst starting quarterback in the NFL since entering the league.

Darnold might be worth a third-round flier. I don’t think a team other than the New York Jets could go into the 2021 season with Darnold as their guaranteed starter, however.

Edited February 6, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[mistertim]

I don't want Winston or Darnold. 

Edited February 6, 2021 by mistertim

[RWJ]

2 minutes ago, mistertim said:

I don't want Winston or Darnold. 

Nor do I want Wentz or Trombone from Chi. 

[KDawg]

5 minutes ago, mistertim said:

I don't want Winston or Darnold. 

 

2 minutes ago, RWJ said:

Nor do I want Wentz or Trombone from Chi. 

I don’t want Haskins or Sanchez.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[RWJ]

Just now, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

They are totally nuts and will never get it.  They know that.  So they want to be cap strapped.  Of course.  They could come way down from this price too if they are serious in trading him.

[mistertim]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

3 minutes ago, RWJ said:

They are totally nuts and will never get it.  They know that.  So they want to be cap strapped.  Of course.  They could come way down from this price too if they are serious in trading him.

 

 

[RWJ]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

The sellers will have to lower their asking prices.  With what Philly is asking for Wentz is ridiculous.  Don't you agree?  A 1st and a 3rd/4th.  What do you think, SIP he's worth?  

[Dark Acre]

Bear in mind, no matter how many franchise QBs there are, only 2 can get to the SB and only 1 can win it every year.  So why do FQBs sometimes not win games?

How does anyone pimp Darnold with a straight face?  The Jets had no business drafting him day 1 or 2.

Just because a guy was drafted #1 doesn't mean doodly-squat once there's a body of work on him.  

[CommDownMan]

3 minutes ago, GothSkinsFan said:

Bear in mind, no matter how many franchise QBs there are, only 2 can get to the SB and only 1 can win it every year.  So why do FQBs sometimes not win games?

How does anyone pimp Darnold with a straight face?  The Jets had no business drafting him day 1 or 2.

Just because a guy was drafted #1 doesn't mean doodly-squat once there's a body of work on him.  

 

So you don't want a 35 yo JaMarcus Russell?

[Skinsinparadise]

5 minutes ago, RWJ said:

The sellers will have to lower their asking prices.  With what Philly is asking for Wentz is ridiculous.  Don't you agree?  A 1st and a 3rd/4th.  What do you think, SIP he's worth?  

 

I think they will get a first rounder but just one.  Someone on this thread earlier today thought no way when I mentioned it.  I told them will see.  So that's my thought.  I'd be stunned if they get two first rounders.  The problem is the Rams gave up so much that other sellers are likely going to at least try to pull off the same but I think they will fail. 

[FootballZombie]

Philly trying to strong arm somebody (the bears?)

 

They are asking for the moon.

 

Due to the massive dead cap hit, it really is not worth it to move Wentz unless you get at least a 1.

2 1s and a guy is a lot though

[Skinsinparadise]

 

[Malapropismic Depository]

3 hours ago, RWJ said:

The sellers will have to lower their asking prices.  With what Philly is asking for Wentz is ridiculous.  Don't you agree?  A 1st and a 3rd/4th.  What do you think, SIP he's worth?  

 

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I think they will get a first rounder but just one.  Someone on this thread earlier today thought no way when I mentioned it.  I told them will see.  So that's my thought.  I'd be stunned if they get two first rounders.  The problem is the Rams gave up so much that other sellers are likely going to at least try to pull off the same but I think they will fail. 

 

Wentz for Foles, straight up, from the Bears 😛

 

Here's a bit, on the forgotten man...

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/football-team/kyle-allen-says-hell-be-ready-washingtons-training-camp

 

Edited February 6, 2021 by Malapropismic Depository

[CjSuAvE22]

3 hours ago, GothSkinsFan said:

 The Jets had no business drafting him day 1 or 2.

 

Sam Darnold was easily a top ten draft pick coming out of college no questions about it...in hindsight yeah maybe they should have taken allen but i dont think anyone faulted them for taking Darnold where they did.....

[RWJ]

59 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

 

Wentz for Foles, straight up, from the Bears 😛

 

Here's a bit, on the forgotten man...

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/football-team/kyle-allen-says-hell-be-ready-washingtons-training-camp

 

Saw this and it's good news!  Thought he was healing slowly but seems like thing have turned the corner for Allen.

[CjSuAvE22]

if we can snag sam darnold for a 3rd rounder or even 2nd i would do it in a heartbeat hes a young qb with high upside potential imo, when you look at jets games half the times hes goong back to pass a guy is running free to sack or hit him...i think he would thrive here in this scheme.

[RWJ]

7 minutes ago, CjSuAvE22 said:

if we can snag sam darnold for a 3rd rounder or even 2nd i would do it in a heartbeat hes a young qb with high upside potential imo, when you look at jets games half the times hes goong back to pass a guy is running free to sack or hit him...i think he would thrive here in this scheme.

He's the same QB now that Ramsey was after he played under Spurrier.  Darnold is gun shy or shall I say sack shy.  When he made the statement about "Ghosts" it tells me his confidence has been shaken.  I love the Patrick Ramsey draft but Spurrier got the guy killed with no OL blocking.  He played well at the Senior Bowl and Spurrier destroyed his NFL career.  

Edited February 6, 2021 by RWJ

[Malapropismic Depository]

5 minutes ago, CjSuAvE22 said:

if we can snag sam darnold for a 3rd rounder or even 2nd i would do it in a heartbeat hes a young qb with high upside potential imo, when you look at jets games half the times hes goong back to pass a guy is running free to sack or hit him...i think he would thrive here in this scheme.

 

Darnold also has an extreme similarity with Patrick Mahomes.

Their hand size is only 1/8 of an inch of a difference.

Darnold's hands are 9 and 3/8ths, while Mahomes' hands are 9 and 2/8ths.

They are almost like twins ! If you're just looking at their palms 😛

 

[FootballZombie]

2 hours ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

Wentz for Foles, straight up, from the Bears

 

I'd endorse that move just to see the fireworks. That locker room is divided and you want to bring in the mediocre QB who got you a SB?

 

It will be the OK QB vs the bad QB who everybody feels gives them some form of hope. It would tear that team apart. Both guys would have to hire dudes to look over their shoulders during games.

 

I can not see that going well and I would love every second of it.

 

 

[Dark Acre]

1 hour ago, CjSuAvE22 said:

Sam Darnold was easily a top ten draft pick coming out of college no questions about it...in hindsight yeah maybe they should have taken allen but i dont think anyone faulted them for taking Darnold where they did.....

I can't pick good QBs, but I can pick bad ones.  When the Jets took Darnold, I thought, good ol' Jets.  This is why I am never in favor of trading a ton of draft capital to move up.  For every Mahomes, there's an army of Darnolds, RGIIIs, etc.  (I was ok with the trade up for Sweat given what we gave up; the sorry thing is that we had to.)  The history of the NFL is littered with the wrecks of teams that flew too close to the Sun on QB wings of wax.  Build your team with smart drafting (perhaps even trading out of the 1st to stockpile 2nd and 3rd rounders*), smart FA'ing, and then buy that disgruntled star QB who wants out of his sheiss show.  All franchise QBs will always be available at some point -- no one forces a star QB to sign an extension with the wreck he's a member of.  (E.g., Tom Brady of the T.B. Buccaneers -- I know he went there 99% for the weather, but TB had an attractive roster.)  I realize it sounds old school, but 40 men together can't lose.  Forge that nucleus and you'll be able to get the other 13 you need to round out your SB roster.

 

*With salary cap restraints and the imperative of having players on initial, 5-year rookie contracts, and with rookies starting and contributing more than they used to in the olden days, seems to me that if you're serious about building a long-term, successful team, you should trade out of the first and stockpile as many picks as possible until you've built up that nucleus.  Then you put the icing on the cake.  (First you put industrial strength Ex Lax in Synder's piece to keep him as far from the team as long as possible.  That's what the problem with drafting Haskins was.  If Snyder was stuck in the can crappping his guts out during the draft, we would've drafted Sweat #15 and saved the picks we traded for him.)

 

As for Heinecke - he should hang out with the DL this Spring.  They'll put some meat on him in the weight room.