Rookie QB or Veteran QB for "Next Season"??? (I didn't bump this, but I ended up being wrong anyway....)

[Koolblue13]

5 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I think we need to go after Stafford. If that breaks down and we don't want in on the crazy sweepstakes (IE: Watson) and we don't think Dak gets free or is affordable I don't mind going after Carr assuming the price is where Carr's price should be. At MOST a second and that's overpaying I think. I'd give them a third. Gruden has indicated that he likes him but he'd prefer Mariota be his guy at times, so they lose some leverage there.

 

Carr + Heinicke + Allen (IR) + Rookie is a really good QB room.

I am against Stafford, but I flip flop a bit now on that. I think if you are giving up 2 1rst round picks, you're ultimately saying "this is our future, because we're there" and I just don't think that's absolutely true for us yet.

 

I really like Carr, Heinicke, Allen PUP and rookie though. I think if Carr is 2 2nds even, it allows us to still be aggressive in FA and the draft, in a year everyone is blowing everything over the QB position. 

[Darrell Green Fan]

8 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I think we need to go after Stafford. If that breaks down and we don't want in on the crazy sweepstakes (IE: Watson) and we don't think Dak gets free or is affordable I don't mind going after Carr assuming the price is where Carr's price should be. At MOST a second and that's overpaying I think. I'd give them a third. Gruden has indicated that he likes him but he'd prefer Mariota be his guy at times, so they lose some leverage there.

 

Carr + Heinicke + Allen (IR) + Rookie is a really good QB room.

 

I don't see any QB in that room where you think "that's the guy that we can count on for high level performance for years". Not at all, Carr is fools gold and I believe Gruden is moving on from him for a reason. 

50 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

I hate to sound ignorant but how do these trade talks go?  I mean does Mayhew (or whomever it is) hear from Detroit "we got a high first and 2 seconds on the table right now" and just believe him? Do offers come documented so they can be shared to confirm offers? I honestly don't know how these conversations go. 

 

 

Any help with this? 

[KDawg]

4 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

I still like Fields as well...I have him and Wilson as pretty much tied for my QB2. Though I think his super inconsistent last 3 games may have dinged his stock a bit. That being said, Wilson struggled a little bit against a really good defense as well in Coastal Carolina, so I don't think it's necessarily fair for Fields to be dinged too hard on that aspect (though his game against Northwestern was really pretty fugly when compared to Wilson's game vs CC).

I thought Fields played well in his last 2 games. Indiana and NW were concerns.

[kingdaddy]

2 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

I don't see any QB in that room where you think "that's the guy that we can count on for high level performance for years". Not at all, Carr is fools gold and I believe Gruden is moving on from him for a reason. 

It would certainly be a competition which is good for the Heinicke supporters. And, if Carr doesn't cost a high pick, we can grab a young QB who hopefully does become the guy of the future for years. 

[Inigo Montoya]

Getting Stafford for me means we get creative with our cap space and still go get Allen Robinson and Lavonte David or KJ Wright and push all our chips in. This team competes with those additions. 
 

shoot your shot FO

Edited January 27, 2021 by Inigo Montoya

[tmandoug1]

Two firsts for Stafford is cheap.....#19  this year and # 20ish next year maybe even dump one of our 3rds as well. No brainer to me. If we roll with Heiny ho and Mac Jones at 19 still leaves a huge ? in our future.  

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

I don't see any QB in that room where you think "that's the guy that we can count on for high level performance for years". Not at all, Carr is fools gold and I believe Gruden is moving on from him for a reason. 

 

 

Any help with this? 

I don’t see anyone in the room with long term potential either unless it’s the rookie. Heinicke has too much to prove to say that of him especially from a durability standpoint. 
 

Carr would be a bridge guy.

 

I don’t see many options for us as a franchise guy, though. And if we lose out on Stafford it’s Dak (if he gets free) or a Carr type for veteran bigger name types. 
 

Of course you can still try to get a rookie.

 

Or you can sign a vet FA for cheap. Which I prefer Carr over most of them but not if his cost is out of whack. 
 

Lots to digest.

 

I’m not too sure how the talks materialize. It’s different for every scenario. I think sometimes the trading team calls around. Sometimes I think interested teams call around.

 

Usually starts with a baseline price and progresses from there. 
 

The GMs probably aren’t saying they’d give up 2 ones at this point though. So I’d imagine the cost is still similar. That cost will escalate as other GMs make mention of it to the Lions and the Lions repeat that offer. 

[HigSkin]

5 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

Any help with this? 

 

I did some looking around because wondered the same thing.  Only thing I could find is that it is a true negotiation. You put in a reasonable offer that isn't insulting but never your best because you assume a FO is coming back to you with "best offer" type situation.

[JoggingGod]

You can cross off teams that are struggling with cap space at least because Stafford is gonna want an extension.

[heyholetsgogrant]

48 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

Fun fact:

 

There has only been 8 players traded for 2 first round picks in the history of the NFL.

 

Joey Galloway to Dallas

Keyshawn Johnson to Tampa

Jalen Ramsey to LA

Jay Cutler to Bears

Jamal Adams to Seattle

Ricky Williams to Miami

Laremy Tunsil to Houston

Khalil Mack to Bears

 

None of them were really game changers....

1 hour ago, HigSkin said:

Sheehan thinks the decision on Stafford will come this week per his sources.  Also had Scott Van Pelt on and there are glowing opinions about Stafford that include his play and the person.  Van Pelt said he's the perfect teammate and you do everything you can as a team to go get him.  He too thinks he likely goes to Colts.  So yea, it might be some kind of draft capital as you say.

 

 

lol, i like the snow forecast. 

[Est.1974]

19 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

Any help with this? 

I think it’ll start a lot more informal than you would think. Conversations at the Senior Bowl, we’ve heard storylines of discussions at the Combine for example. 
 

Expression of interest, likely gets filtered back to the agent, high level numbers on his contract demands floated, probably gets narrowed down very quickly to a couple of real contenders. The rest just desperately drive up the price even though they don’t have a real shot. Likely a trigger point once the compensation starts to line up, so you push the deal over the line.

[Conn]

27 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I am against Stafford, but I flip flop a bit now on that. I think if you are giving up 2 1rst round picks, you're ultimately saying "this is our future, because we're there" and I just don't think that's absolutely true for us yet.

 

I really like Carr, Heinicke, Allen PUP and rookie though. I think if Carr is 2 2nds even, it allows us to still be aggressive in FA and the draft, in a year everyone is blowing everything over the QB position. 

I think technically, in a vacuum, you’re right that we aren’t “there yet”, but this is an unprecedented offseason of available franchise-level QBs. It’s going to be difficult to hold this defense together in a few years AND figure out QB and keep the pipeline flowing at the skill positions on top of it. With a core of the defense/McLaurin/Gibson/above average OL we are in a unique (for us) position of surprisingly being able to take a quantum leap forward with a real talent at QB.

 

I think Carr would be infuriating for a lot of people here to watch once he’s settled in. His arm is big enough that through highlights he may seem like a gunslinger—but in reality he is one of the biggest Captain Checkdowns there is in the league. He is QB purgatory imo. Stafford will cost more but is a tier above and is DYING to win somewhere with a team around him. People here would love rooting for him, this fanbase would go nuts for Stafford and his heart on the field imo. We’d be one of the most fun teams in the league every week and have the nation on our side, too, which is a minor silver lining. 
 

Edited January 27, 2021 by ConnSKINS26

[mistertim]

I suppose I could see Carr as an ok consolation prize if we don't get Stafford. But IMO Carr is pretty mediocre and he's not a playmaker like Stafford has shown himself to be. Stafford makes some ludicrous throws. Imagine him throwing to Terry.

 

 

Edited January 27, 2021 by mistertim

[dyst]

I absolutely believe we need a QB but giving up two #1s for Stafford is way to high. We finally built a solid team not via trade but through drafting. Go after Stafford but not at a steep price.

[wit33]

The more I digest Stafford the stronger I lean to no way he’d want to come here. How he and his representatives not look at the teams recent 10 year history and fail to come to the conclusion the similarities to the Lions. Obviously, we all feel the team is ascending and Ron has brought a different feel, but if I’m an outsider (like Stafford) I couldn’t help but lean negative and eliminate this option. 
 

Not saying this is right or wrong just attempting to put myself in his potential point of view. 

[Conn]

 

 

[KDawg]

34 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I am against Stafford, but I flip flop a bit now on that. I think if you are giving up 2 1rst round picks, you're ultimately saying "this is our future, because we're there" and I just don't think that's absolutely true for us yet.

 

I really like Carr, Heinicke, Allen PUP and rookie though. I think if Carr is 2 2nds even, it allows us to still be aggressive in FA and the draft, in a year everyone is blowing everything over the QB position. 

I don’t think we should give up 2 ones for Stafford. But the current listed price of a 1 and a 3 is an absolute yes from me. I MAY be able to be swayed for a 1 this year and 2 next year. But I’m not going two 1s and I’m not giving up Allen unless we are 100% certain we aren’t re-signing him or he won’t be re-signing.

[Skinsinparadise]

11 minutes ago, wit33 said:

The more I digest Stafford the stronger I lean to no way he’d want to come here. How he and his representatives not look at the teams recent 10 year history and fail to come to the conclusion the similarities to the Lions. Obviously, we all feel the team is ascending and Ron has brought a different feel, but if I’m an outsider (like Stafford) I couldn’t help but lean negative and eliminate this option. 
 

Not saying this is right or wrong just attempting to put myself in his potential point of view. 

 

It could be.   From what i've read they (he and his wife) are also super nice people, do a lot of charity work, etc, and were close with the Lions owner.  If Dan is unpopular as some say with fellow owners (sans Dallas and Jets ownership) coupled with all the scandals that the organization is dealing with -- he might have received some heads up about things that might not make him feel that warm and fuzzy about the organization. 

Edited January 27, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[mistertim]

16 minutes ago, dyst said:

I absolutely believe we need a QB but giving up two #1s for Stafford is way to high. We finally built a solid team not via trade but through drafting. Go after Stafford but not at a steep price.

 

I guess it just depends on how much of a difference the coaches believe the QB in question would make. If you didn't make the trade and went BPA this year and next in the 1st round and landed a couple of good players at other positions, but still had oft injured and mediocre QBs helming your offense, how much difference would those two players make when compared to a good QB?

 

Two 1sts would be tough for me to digest, but if the coaches truly believe Stafford is the guy and will be able to elevate this offense then I'd be ok with it because if they're right we could immediately be a super dangerous team.

Edited January 27, 2021 by mistertim

[Skinsinparadise]

Grant Cohn of Sports Illustrated is reporting that the San Francisco 49ers have the "inside edge" to acquire quarterback Matthew Stafford from the Detroit Lions, according to a "source extremely close to the situation."

Online sportsbook Bovada recently listed the 49ers with the best odds to land Stafford, and Ian Rapoport said on NFL Network that nearly a third of the teams in the league have already reached out to the Lions.

"As teams line up to trade for Matthew Stafford, a source extremely close to the situation said that while nothing is done or close to being finalized, the San Francisco 49ers seem to have the inside edge to land Stafford in a trade with the Detroit Lions," reports Cohn.

The beat writer states that the source did not divulge what kind of compensation the 49ers might need to surrender for Stafford, but notes that the general manager John Lynch and company would likely have to at least send Detroit the No. 12 overall pick. It's also unknown which destinations Stafford prefers.

Stafford will turn 33 years old on Super Bowl Sunday. David Lombardi of The Athletic points out that Stafford's post-trade salary-cap hit would be about $20 million in 2021 and about $23 million in 2022. Jimmy Garoppolo's cap hit is about $27 million for each of the next two seasons.

Stafford passed for 4,084 yards with 26 touchdowns and 10 interceptions in 2020. He has passed for over 4,000 yards in eight of his 12 NFL seasons and appeared in 16 games during nine of his past 10 seasons.
 

 

[KDawg]

2 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

I guess it just depends on how much of a difference the coaches believe the QB in question would make. If you didn't make the trade and went BPA this year and next in the 1st round and landed a couple of good players at other positions, but still had oft injured and mediocre QBs helming your offense, how much difference would those two players make when compared to a good QB?

 

Two 1sts would be tough for me to digest, but if the coaches truly believe Stafford is the guy and will be able to elevate this offense then I'd be ok with it because if they're right we could immediately be a super dangerous team.

Pertaining to the first paragraph: We had phenomenal QB play against Tampa and our D didn’t get the job done. 
 

There’s also the question of: Do we beat Dallas, twice, if Dak is playing and their line is even somewhat competitive (they played Terrence Steele... let that sink in).

 

And one could easily make the argument that the same risk exists except amplified if you use those selections on a QB who gets injured... and the cap involved.

 

I’m not against grabbing a QB but I don’t agree with the “**** it I’m going deep” all in stuff that’s been going on.

[RWJ]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Grant Cohn of Sports Illustrated is reporting that the San Francisco 49ers have the "inside edge" to acquire quarterback Matthew Stafford from the Detroit Lions, according to a "source extremely close to the situation."

Online sportsbook Bovada recently listed the 49ers with the best odds to land Stafford, and Ian Rapoport said on NFL Network that nearly a third of the teams in the league have already reached out to the Lions.

"As teams line up to trade for Matthew Stafford, a source extremely close to the situation said that while nothing is done or close to being finalized, the San Francisco 49ers seem to have the inside edge to land Stafford in a trade with the Detroit Lions," reports Cohn.

The beat writer states that the source did not divulge what kind of compensation the 49ers might need to surrender for Stafford, but notes that the general manager John Lynch and company would likely have to at least send Detroit the No. 12 overall pick. It's also unknown which destinations Stafford prefers.

Stafford will turn 33 years old on Super Bowl Sunday. David Lombardi of The Athletic points out that Stafford's post-trade salary-cap hit would be about $20 million in 2021 and about $23 million in 2022. Jimmy Garoppolo's cap hit is about $27 million for each of the next two seasons.

Stafford passed for 4,084 yards with 26 touchdowns and 10 interceptions in 2020. He has passed for over 4,000 yards in eight of his 12 NFL seasons and appeared in 16 games during nine of his past 10 seasons.
 

 

It depends on how much a team offers for Stafford.  Whoever offers the most will get him.  

[Conn]

I’m coming off very enthusiastic for Stafford but just to clarify, I hover right around KDawg’s 1st+ 3rd price as my line. I could go a little higher if we were a finalist in his eyes, where he wanted to be, and needed to make that push.

 

I’d pay more to be in the Watson/Rodgers sweepstakes but that’s very unlikely on both counts. 

Just now, RWJ said:

It depends on how much a team offers for Stafford.  Whoever offers the most will get him.  

Correction—whoever offers the most, that Stafford will play for, will get him. 

[KDawg]

Just now, RWJ said:

It depends on how much a team offers for Stafford.  Whoever offers the most will get him.  

At this point that’s as much of Detroit increasing the package in return as it is SF being in the lead. There’s the first salvo in the arms race.

[kingdaddy]

1 minute ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

I’m coming off very enthusiastic for Stafford but just to clarify, I hover right around KDawg’s 1st+ 3rd price as my line. I could go a little higher if we were a finalist in his eyes, where he wanted to be, and needed to make that push.

 

I’d pay more to be in the Watson/Rodgers sweepstakes but that’s very unlikely on both counts. 

Would you go 1st, 2022 2nd and 2021 3rd?