Rookie QB or Veteran QB for "Next Season"??? (I didn't bump this, but I ended up being wrong anyway....)

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[mistertim]

7 hours ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

Tom Brady is playing in his tenth Super Bowl. Mahomes is mobile but he’s also great within the system. If Rodgers is available, it ain’t because his style of play is ineffective. He’s going to be MVP. Drew Brees would also like a word with you on the subject.

 

Brady and Brees nowadays are the exception, not the rule, when it comes to the elite QBs. And "athletic, mobile QB" doesn't necessarily = "running QB". Mahomes and Rodgers are both athletic, able to extend plays, and improvise when need be and that's one of the things that makes them great. Same goes for Allen, Watson, Wilson, and on and on.

 

The days of statue pure pocket QBs are pretty much over outside of 20 year vets like Brady and Brees. Defenses and offenses alike are now just too fast and creative to really cater to a QB who doesn't have several facets to his game. The rules are also set up in a way now that heavily protects QBs even outside the pocket, so they can get out of the pocket and use their athleticism without as much fear of being decapitated like in years past. 

[DWinzit]

12 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

As for the non first round types, he's been my other guy right after Ridder for months.  Though unlike Ridder, Newman wasn't playing last season so it was tough to do week after week hype for him like I did for Ridder.  😀   But if he burns up the Senior Bowl, I am very intrigued.   And said so about him before the Senior Bowl. 

 

If he burns it up in the Senior Bowl, I wonder if he ends up one of those shocker how did he go in the top half of the first round types.  His tools to me are very appealing. 

This years Senior Bowl is loaded with talent not only at QB but all positions. I can't wait to watch it and see who will shoot up boards as a result of their play.

 

Finding out how players interacted best with the pro coaches is always a big deal. Wish it was WFT coaches working this game.

 

Newman could easily find himself drafted in the same area as Jones, bottom of the first  - the third round. Crazy because both of these guys would have been third or later a few months ago. Oh the world of being a talented QB

 

Lets hope for no injuries!

 

Ridder has the tools to vault himself into the first round next year with a good decision to stay in school. I am looking forward to watching him next year.

Edited January 27, 2021 by DWinzit

[kingdaddy]

Interesting....if we draft Newman or Jones do we just stand pat with Allen and Heinicke then? You would think we would. I doubt this plays out that way but who knows?

Or, do we add a Fitzmagic and subtract Allen or Heinicke once the rookie is brought on board. This plan makes a lot of sense. 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

[Thinking Skins]

5 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

Interesting....if we draft Newman or Jones do we just stand pat with Allen and Heinicke then? You would think we would. I doubt this plays out that way but who knows?

Or, do we add a Fitzmagic and subtract Allen or Heinicke once the rookie is brought on board. This plan makes a lot of sense. 

I think there's more to this because Allen is injured. Heinicke is as well. But Allen's injury is more serious. We're looking at the possibility of putting him on PUP next year. He just started walking again.

 

So if we let Smith go we've got just Heinicke. So If Allen can come back before the season next year there can be a competition between the two, otherwise I could see him being PUP and us bringing in somebody - either as the number 1 to go ahead of Heinicke or as somebody to compete with him.

 

I'd see the Newman and Jones picks as more of a question on the direction. If we trade for an unquestioned starter, I don't see us picking one of them (or having the draft capital to pick them unless they drop ala Lock in 2019. But if we don't or are unable to acquire one of these starters I can see Newman and Jones being the backup plan. And in this plan I could see a Bridgewater or somebody on that level coming in if Allen isn't ready. In this case though Allen/Heinicke/Bridgewater are given the reigns to compete and start for a while as we develop the rookie. 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Est.1974]

12 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

Ah, in the days of Bruce Allen he’d had photoshopped Stafford into a WFT jersey and sent it to him, similar to what he did with Josh Norman. That’s the kind of dynamic leadership we miss..

 

I’m not at all confident we get anywhere near Stafford. I reckon it would be a major coup if we were able to acquire his services. Feels out of our reach, sadly. Hope to be proven wrong.

[mistertim]

21 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

Interesting....if we draft Newman or Jones do we just stand pat with Allen and Heinicke then? You would think we would. I doubt this plays out that way but who knows?

Or, do we add a Fitzmagic and subtract Allen or Heinicke once the rookie is brought on board. This plan makes a lot of sense. 

 

Newman and Jones are basically diametrically opposed players. Jones is a polished QB with limited physical abilities so has a high floor and probably mediocre ceiling. Newman is a raw QB with tons of physical talent and low floor with a potentially super high ceiling. So IMO the two draft scenarios would be totally different.

 

I think if we went with Jones, he'd likely have a decent chance of being the starter right away, considering his experience and polish. If we went with Newman I think he'd definitely sit for a year and we'd be rolling with Allen/Heinicke (whichever is least injured at the time).

 

I also don't personally see them in the same draft category. I think Jones is a low 1st / high 2nd rounder and Newman is a low 2nd / high 3rd rounder. 

[Riggo#44]

17 hours ago, clskinsfan said:

That draft would completely screw us. Would leave us picking defense again most likely.

Good thing Mel Kiper's drafts are horribly inaccurate then.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[RWJ]

11 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

Ah, in the days of Bruce Allen he’d had photoshopped Stafford into a WFT jersey and sent it to him, similar to what he did with Josh Norman. That’s the kind of dynamic leadership we miss..

 

I’m not at all confident we get anywhere near Stafford. I reckon it would be a major coup if we were able to acquire his services. Feels out of our reach, sadly. Hope to be proven wrong.

Yep, Stafford would have been THE WFTs QB with Allen running the ship.  Shall be interesting to see how this plays out.  Let's see how much RR listens to Mayhew IF Mayhew is pushing hard for Stafford.  I'm all for Stafford but does RR want to move up and get one of the hot shot QBs in the draft minus Lawrence.  

[DWinzit]

7 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Newman and Jones are basically diametrically opposed players. Jones is a polished QB with limited physical abilities so has a high floor and probably mediocre ceiling. Newman is a raw QB with tons of physical talent and low floor with a potentially super high ceiling. So IMO the two draft scenarios would be totally different.

 

I think if we went with Jones, he'd likely have a decent chance of being the starter right away, considering his experience and polish. If we went with Newman I think he'd definitely sit for a year and we'd be rolling with Allen/Heinicke (whichever is least injured at the time).

 

I also don't personally see them in the same draft category. I think Jones is a low 1st / high 2nd rounder and Newman is a low 2nd / high 3rd rounder. 

I agree with your draft categories today. If Newman lights it up at the Senior Bowl and Jones lays an egg when not being surrounded by the Bama crew the are in the same category.

 

If Allen isn't ready for the beginning of next year and they get a Stafford or other immediate starter I could see them grabbing a later found mobile QB for the PS. There are a couple of these possibilities in this weekends game too.

[Est.1974]

Just now, RWJ said:

 I'm all for Stafford but does RR want to move up and get one of the hot shot QBs in the draft minus Lawrence.  

Think in that scenario the best outcome is to take a flyer on Lance, but you need a 2020 stop gap which mean a potential Smith swansong. Not ideal.

[RWJ]

1 minute ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

Think in that scenario the best outcome is to take a flyer on Lance, but you need a 2020 stop gap which mean a potential Smith swansong. Not ideal.

Maybe they want Wilson.  I can see Lance though.  Both QBs have freaky talent but I am always focused on the mental aspect of our QB.  But either one a stopgap could be Fitzpatrick. Taylor on a 1 year deal.  I will give you my super darkhorse pick and a QB to keep in the back of your mind, UK74, Kyle Trusk.  My guy is Mac Jones and a lot of people are enamored with Newman.  

[Skinsinparadise]

23 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

Ah, in the days of Bruce Allen he’d had photoshopped Stafford into a WFT jersey and sent it to him, similar to what he did with Josh Norman. That’s the kind of dynamic leadership we miss..

 

I’m not at all confident we get anywhere near Stafford. I reckon it would be a major coup if we were able to acquire his services. Feels out of our reach, sadly. Hope to be proven wrong.

 

Yeah I think it was overstated that Bruce was cheap.  Bruce was cheap when it came to upgrading the facilities, retaining our own players, cheap FAs, etc.  But no one can overpay for medium level FA like Bruce.  He was i am not paying $40 for a steak but I'll pay $32 for a burger kind of guy.   Ditto no one overpays in trades like that dude.  So yeah if they wanted Stafford, they'd get him if Bruce was here.  If he was on Ebay, he'd hit the buy now buttom and pay the highest price it took to outbid whomever. 

Edited January 27, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[RWJ]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Yeah I think it was overstated that Bruce was cheap.  Bruce was cheap when it came to upgrading the facilities, retaining our own players, cheap FAs, etc.  But no one can overpay for  medium level FA like Bruce.  Ditto no one overpays in trades like that dude.  So yeah if they wanted Stafford, they'd get him if Bruce was here.  If he was on enay, he'd hit the buy now buttom and pay the highest price it took to outbid whomever. 

So true!  🤣

[TheGoodBits]

Re Jamie Newman- I watched some tape on him from last year and I’ve watched some breakdowns on Trey Lance. I can’t figure out why people view Lance as a top 10 pick and Newman as a 3rd rounder. Both good athletes with a big arm. Lance looked more consistent but hard to say how much of that is based on the talent level of his opponents in the FCS. His team was also stacked... 
 

IMO value for both of them is back half of the 1st round to early 2nd. 

[Skinsinparadise]

American Team 2021 Senior Bowl Practice Report: Quarterbacks

@RWJ will really catch fire with Mac Jones fever after reading this.

 

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/nfl-draft-free-agency-news-rumors-2021-senior-bowl/

Jamie Newman, Wake Forest

TuesdayWednesdayThursdayAnalysis

The day started rough for Newman — his throws were all over the place and you thought, “Oh boy, here we go.” Then BOOM! He turned it around on a dime. Newman made a lot of terrific throws in and out of the pocket. His passes had excellent zip, threw tight spirals, and for the most part, he was accurate. His ability to roll outside the pocket and accurately make the throw downfield was very impressive.

 

 

 

Kellen Mond, Texas A&M

TuesdayWednesdayThursdayAnalysis

Mond was not as accurate as Jones, but he wasn’t that far off. He’s a superior athlete with a superior arm and really looked good throwing on the move. His passes have terrific speed and Mond got the ball through the tight spots all day long. Want to see a little more touch on throws but it was a real good outing.

 

 

 

Mac Jones, Alabama

TuesdayWednesdayThursdayAnalysis

The class of the quarterbacks today. Made all the passes today putting speed on deep throws and touch on shorter balls. Very accurate and Jones did not make targets work hard to catch the ball. Looked like he was in control all practice long. Had some bad misses, but that was due purely to miscommunication with receivers.

Just now, skinsfan_1215 said:

Re Jamie Newman- I watched some tape on him from last year and I’ve watched some breakdowns on Trey Lance. I can’t figure out why people view Lance as a top 10 pick and Newman as a 3rd rounder. Both good athletes with a big arm. Lance looked more consistent but hard to say how much of that is based on the talent level of his opponents in the FCS. His team was also stacked... 
 

IMO value for both of them is back half of the 1st round to early 2nd. 

 

I like both.  Similar arm talent.  But Lance can run almost Lamar Jackson level freakish.  Newman IMO has good mobility but not freakish like Lance. 

[RWJ]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

American Team 2021 Senior Bowl Practice Report: Quarterbacks

@RWJ will really catch fire with Mac Jones fever after reading this.

You nailed it, SIP.    He fits Turner's O.  Don't you think?  Curious, nothing on Trusk?

Edited January 27, 2021 by RWJ

[kingdaddy]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

American Team 2021 Senior Bowl Practice Report: Quarterbacks

@RWJ will really catch fire with Mac Jones fever after reading this.

 

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/nfl-draft-free-agency-news-rumors-2021-senior-bowl/

Jamie Newman, Wake Forest

TuesdayWednesdayThursdayAnalysis

The day started rough for Newman — his throws were all over the place and you thought, “Oh boy, here we go.” Then BOOM! He turned it around on a dime. Newman made a lot of terrific throws in and out of the pocket. His passes had excellent zip, threw tight spirals, and for the most part, he was accurate. His ability to roll outside the pocket and accurately make the throw downfield was very impressive.

 

 

 

Kellen Mond, Texas A&M

TuesdayWednesdayThursdayAnalysis

Mond was not as accurate as Jones, but he wasn’t that far off. He’s a superior athlete with a superior arm and really looked good throwing on the move. His passes have terrific speed and Mond got the ball through the tight spots all day long. Want to see a little more touch on throws but it was a real good outing.

 

 

 

Mac Jones, Alabama

TuesdayWednesdayThursdayAnalysis

The class of the quarterbacks today. Made all the passes today putting speed on deep throws and touch on shorter balls. Very accurate and Jones did not make targets work hard to catch the ball. Looked like he was in control all practice long. Had some bad misses, but that was due purely to miscommunication with receivers.

Good stuff....If Kyle Allen really is a PUP candidate I say we just move on from him, sign Heinicke, a veteran and draft one of these kids to groom. 

Obviously that's if we don't get one of the big fish in a trade.

[mistertim]

5 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

I agree with your draft categories today. If Newman lights it up at the Senior Bowl and Jones lays an egg when not being surrounded by the Bama crew the are in the same category.

 

If Allen isn't ready for the beginning of next year and they get a Stafford or other immediate starter I could see them grabbing a later found mobile QB for the PS. There are a couple of these possibilities in this weekends game too.

 

Yeah fair point. If Newman lights it up at the SB then he could see his stock possibly go way up. I'm not necessarily saying this would happen, but if he truly kills it, I could even potentially see some teams thinking more along the lines of Newman than Lance for a high upside/developmental prospect. Lance is a more polished passer as of now but the limited tape, combined with no Senior Bowl, and being at a small school could hurt his stock. 

 

Just now, RWJ said:

Maybe they want Wilson.  I can see Lance though.  Both QBs have freaky talent but I am always focused on the mental aspect of our QB.  But either one a stopgap could be Fitzpatrick. Taylor on a 1 year deal.  I will give you my super darkhorse pick and a QB to keep in the back of your mind, UK74, Kyle Trusk.  My guy is Mac Jones and a lot of people are enamored with Newman.  

 

I don't think Wilson makes it out of the top 5 personally. That would be a pretty pricy move from 19 to top 3 or so. Then again, if we're potentially willing to give up 2 1sts for a veteran like Stafford I suppose I'd be ok with them doing it for a rookie if they truly believed in him and thought he was that good.

[RWJ]

1 minute ago, kingdaddy said:

Good stuff....If Kyle Allen really is a PUP candidate I say we just move on from him, sign Heinicke, a veteran and draft one of these kids to groom. 

Obviously that's if we don't get one of the big fish in a trade.

I agree.  If out of the Stafford stakes, I think that's the best scenario.  

[Koolblue13]

If Allen is going to the PUP to start the season, then I'm on the Heinicke, FA vet/reclamation type QB and a natural draft pick. Jones or Newman would be fine with me. 

 

This is shaping up to be the 1984 draft all over again with possibly 6 first rounders. 

 

I don't feel we are a QB away from a great team. Maybe Stafford or more likely Rodgers, with the addition of a LBer and another legit WR option, but that's a huge amount of capital.

 

I love that we made the playoffs and the arrow is pointing up for us, I also hold the win now attitude pretty much always, and I think we will be a double digit win team next year, but I want to grow organically.

[mistertim]

10 minutes ago, skinsfan_1215 said:

Re Jamie Newman- I watched some tape on him from last year and I’ve watched some breakdowns on Trey Lance. I can’t figure out why people view Lance as a top 10 pick and Newman as a 3rd rounder. Both good athletes with a big arm. Lance looked more consistent but hard to say how much of that is based on the talent level of his opponents in the FCS. His team was also stacked... 
 

IMO value for both of them is back half of the 1st round to early 2nd. 

 

A lot of it is just hype IMO. Part of that is, as @Skinsinparadisenoted, people see some Lamar Jackson in him and whenever a draft prospect draws a bunch of comparisons to current hot NFL QBs, it pretty much automatically raises their stock, even if artificially. 

 

I do like Lance but I don't see him as being in the same category as Lawrence, Wilson, and Fields. I also worry about the way he runs...he does things like run into A gaps and then try to bulldoze through linebackers. That may work in the MVFC, and it's entertaining to watch, but in the NFL he's going to be in for a rude awakening if he keeps trying that.