A New Start! (the Reboot) The Front Office, Ownership, & Coaching Staff Thread

[skinzplay]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I am with you on that one.

 

I just listened to Keim's podcast, he also said the Bruce Allen connection is one of the things he heard.  It's hard for me to believe that the guilt by association is that simple -- I'd presume there is something specific to the old culture or something that didn't jive with Ron.  But I got no idea, just guessing.   The Bruce Allen association stuff seems so vague to me.  Keim didn't have anything specific aside from referring to Kyle's strong personality and relative inexperience might have been factors.  But the first thing he said was the Bruce association.  But he didn't paint it as anything dramatic, he said in a vague and benign way.  

 

Keim also knows a lot more than he reports; it's one of the many reasons his sources trust him so much. I think the Kyle S. exit is just an exercise in bringing in a new upper tier of leadership that has not been around the previous mgmt. RR thought highly enough of the kid to give him a promotion/raise when he arrived, and I think he served the team well. It was just time for both parties to move in their own respective directions. I wish Smith nothing but the best.

[88Comrade2000]

1 hour ago, dyst said:

Bruce 100% shook hands with Snyder so hopefully Dan is next. 

Dan maybe next but a new owner will want his own people and that includes head coach.  Eventually, Ron will be given the boot under the new owner.

[joeken24]

10 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

OK but he wasn't GM.  Cowden wasn't a GM. He had in Tennessee the same title that Kyle did here.  Rivera saw something in him that he didn't see in Kyle for that spot.  Reading about Cowden he is a hands on people person who interacts heavily with the players. I am guessing that's important to Ron. 

 

I can't recall which reporter said it but one said they heard besides adminstrative skills he wanted a GM who can help build the culture with the team and build morale in that building.  Ron supposedly would like a partner in that.

 

If Kyle is more of a stay in the background and watch tape type of dude versus being a people skills culture building type I'd think that would be weighed by Ron.  I've heard and its not hard to see in interviews that Kyle doesn't come off like an extroverted brimming with people skills kind of guy.  It's speculation on my end but there are some bread crumbs on this.  If you watch Jason Wright his people skills just ooze out of him in seconds.

 

Ron has been around young guys who ended up stud GMs like Beane or soon to be GMs like Schoen.  I'd presume if Ron thought Kyle was a rock star in waiting GM, he'd have promoted him again.  Ron's not stupid.  If Kyle quickly emerges as the next Beane he'd look like a fool.  

 

I am not saying Ron's right.  I got no idea.  But I'll trust for now he knows what he's doing.  I recall people being skeptical about him bringing so many of his Carolina staff here but most have shown to be good in the end especially the O line and TE coach.  I'll trust Ron until he gives me a reason not to trust him. 

 

👍🏽 Not sure about cowden. But he started with the Panthers, so there was familiaraity there with Ron. But an assistant GM is pretty qualified to interview for a GM spot. I will say there is a bit of Ashburn syndrome when it comes to Kyle. Plus he was hired by Bruce. 🤢Nevertheless I think Kyle is staying in his current position. He wasn't replaced, he just wasn't promoted after 1 year on the job. The staff was increased to help the team. I still would like to know if Kyle even requested an interview. 

Edited January 23, 2021 by joeken24
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[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

25 minutes ago, Burgold said:

I'm not sure that Kyle Smith being gone has that much to do with Bruce Allen stink. The argument that Kyle failed to step up while Ron was dealing with cancer resonates somewhat, but I think it's simpler than that.

 

Kyle saw the writing on the wall. He was not wanted here. He was not interviewed for the GM job and his star was not going to rise higher during his tenure here. It's likely that good drafts will be attributed to Mayhew/Hurney and not him. So, Kyle had to hit the road. Staying put would be moving backwards.

 

From a timeline perspective, if those reports are true about him not stepping up, then he saw the writing on the wall from his own lack of ability.  The GM interviews happened months after Ron was suffering from the worst of the cancer treatments.

 

Let's do some speculation based on that rumor being true:

1) It's possible he didn't realize he should've stepped up more, because that was unlike the roles he fulfilled with Bruce Allen.  His lack of proactive effort is why he wasn't interviewed.

2) He realized and tried to step up, but was incapable of fulfilling those duties, maybe in part because they were so unlike what he had to do for Bruce Allen.

3) The person who stepped up instead of Kyle Smith was Eric Stokes, which would explain why he was interviewed.

4) This might be an Eric Shaeffer situation, where he wasn't part of the toxic culture, but he also did nothing to prevent it from getting worse and worse.  This kind of circles back around to the lack of being proactive by Kyle from the 1st point.  So combine this with Point 1, and it's not a good look.

 

If the rumors of Kyle being an introvert that kind of struggles to connect with colleagues/players is true, then he'd need to be a personnel evaluator some place that already has a strong culture in place with executives/assistants at all levels who can act as a positive authority figure so Kyle Smith doesn't have to.

 

I want to repeat this isn't what I think, because I don't know what to think yet.  It's just some idle speculation based on rumors.

 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

10 minutes ago, Rdskns2000 said:

Dan maybe next but a new owner will want his own people and that includes head coach.  Eventually, Ron will be given the boot under the new owner.

 

You know, I'm sure that's not always the case...such as if the new owner inherits a team that happens to be winning.  But a new owner cleaning house would not be surprising.

 

The Panthers new owner cleaned house after 1 season.  The Jaguars owner (in 2012) cleaned house after 1 season.  Granted, the team had steadily been getting worse, so a new GM and HC wasn't unexpected anyways.

 

 

[88Comrade2000]

15 minutes ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

You know, I'm sure that's not always the case...such as if the new owner inherits a team that happens to be winning.  But a new owner cleaning house would not be surprising.

 

The Panthers new owner cleaned house after 1 season.  The Jaguars owner (in 2012) cleaned house after 1 season.  Granted, the team had steadily been getting worse, so a new GM and HC wasn't unexpected anyways.

 

 

I did say eventually. As long as he is winning, when a new owner takes ; he’s safe. If not, he will be let go. Eventually, the new owner will want his own coach and the moment Ron fails to meet that owners expectations; he’s gone.

[boston skins fan]

1 hour ago, Burgold said:

I'm not sure that Kyle Smith being gone has that much to do with Bruce Allen stink. The argument that Kyle failed to step up while Ron was dealing with cancer resonates somewhat, but I think it's simpler than that.

 

Kyle saw the writing on the wall. He was not wanted here. He was not interviewed for the GM job and his star was not going to rise higher during his tenure here. It's likely that good drafts will be attributed to Mayhew/Hurney and not him. So, Kyle had to hit the road. Staying put would be moving backwards.

 

If he really wanted a promotion why didnt he take more off Ron's plate?  

 

In my work when my superior transfers/retires and we are with out for a few weeks i jump to take some of the work so i show that i can do the work and move up myself.  If Smith didnt then its on him 

[method man]

5 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Not to me.  He wasn't friends with Mayhew for example.  I like Kyle but I don't see this as a setback.    Will see.

 

Not sure if Cooley is right below.  But just trying to make something out of the crumbs being thrown out there via some covering this, i am getting the impression there is likely a backstory in the mix here.  The circle of trust point in particular and by that its not that Rivera wanted a toady but i am getting the vibe there was an incident or two.  Who knows.  Maybe not.   I'd bet we will find out eventually. 

 

 

 

 

If you guys remember, there were rumors Cooley was being considered for Ron’s staff as an offensive assistant. Ron probably dinged it - Cooley was buddies with Dan and Bruce

[RWJ]

So per Keim/Cooley Kyle gets blamed because he was associated with Bruce.  What a crock!  

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

19 minutes ago, RWJ said:

So per Keim/Cooley Kyle gets blamed because he was associated with Bruce.  What a crock!  

I find this to be a bit of stretch.

 

But I can see a scenario where bad habits instilled under the prior regime are something Ron wants to rid the organization of.  
 

This is a testament to what a lot of folks wanted to downplay until the 11th hour, that Bruce Allen was clearly a cancer of epic proportion.

[Thinking Skins]

48 minutes ago, RWJ said:

So per Keim/Cooley Kyle gets blamed because he was associated with Bruce.  What a crock!  

I doubt it's this simple. If it were I'd think he'd have been gone with the first batch of people. I'd guess it's something about Smith in particular that didn't mesh. Now saying it was a blow up, but probably something that made it like we're not on the same page often enough and it's not a good idea to keep him around let alone promote him. 

 

It could easily be the leaks, or the Snyder treatment or his personality, but it could just as easily be something like him giving stronger weights to players in the SEC over other conferences or big name schools over small ones. We talk about the draft and how good it was. Suppose there was a player we wanted who Ron wanted but Kyle rated low. Suppose this happened with a number of players or positions. I think the most likely thing is they just had a different way of grading players and rather than forcing Kyle to change, they moved on. 

[method man]

11 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

I doubt it's this simple. If it were I'd think he'd have been gone with the first batch of people. I'd guess it's something about Smith in particular that didn't mesh. Now saying it was a blow up, but probably something that made it like we're not on the same page often enough and it's not a good idea to keep him around let alone promote him. 

 

It could easily be the leaks, or the Snyder treatment or his personality, but it could just as easily be something like him giving stronger weights to players in the SEC over other conferences or big name schools over small ones. We talk about the draft and how good it was. Suppose there was a player we wanted who Ron wanted but Kyle rated low. Suppose this happened with a number of players or positions. I think the most likely thing is they just had a different way of grading players and rather than forcing Kyle to change, they moved on. 

 

That doesn't make sense. Ron praised Kyle after the draft and Kyle took Gibson from CUSA in the 3rd and Gandy Golden from god know what conference in the 4th

[Peregrine]

I saw an article today talking about the leak about Kyle Smith being so against the Haskins pick, demanding to know what the pick was going to be and pleading for it not to be him, and I think it dawned on me that thats why hes gone.  Snyder is trying to save face by letting other people change the culture out of desperation, but make no mistake we still know how vindictive he is.  

 

How do you think he took the news of that report being leaked and how it made him look?  And how it made Smith look?  Plus, where did that report come from?  Certainly not someone that was on Snyder's side.  I think its highly likely as Smith saw how good his last 2 drafts were, but the huge blemish of Haskins, and saw the likely sinking ship of the Snyder ownership, he made a decision for his own career, and leaked that story.  It makes Smith look good(I think its likely true) and ensures he will probably have a very good job once his contract expires as his last 2 drafts appear to be pretty good.  But make no mistake, Snyder probably wanted to fire him the moment that story came out.  Instead, replacing him and allowing his contract to expire gets the same job done without the mess, and its the consequences of Smith working to save his own career(and probably a wise decision on his part).  I wouldnt be surprised if Rivera had to bend on this one especially since he probably values his own guys as much if not more than Smith anyway.

[Voice_of_Reason]

9 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

To Cooley’s point, That’s not entirely true since Doug is still there and he was a key Bruce “damn good” culture guy.  You could even go check his time card fir god sake.   

Edited January 24, 2021 by Voice_of_Reason

[Commander Wolffe]

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

To Cooley’s point, That’s not entirely true since Doug is still there and he was a key Bruce “damn good” culture guy.  You could even go check his time card fir god sake.   

 

Thank you.

 

This post was a reminder of the Bruce and Doug press conferences and that era of the Washington front office. I know most are underwhelmed by our recent changes. 

 

Take 30 seconds and compare our front office to then and now. Ron, Mayhew and Marty are a clear upgrade to what we had just 12 months ago. This isn't just potential and pedigree.  We won the NFC east this year. We are now a QB and only a couple of pieces on offense and defense from being a contender. That was not the prevailing opinion just 12 months ago.

[RWJ]

38 minutes ago, SkinsFootball said:

 

Thank you.

 

This post was a reminder of the Bruce and Doug press conferences and that era of the Washington front office. I know most are underwhelmed by our recent changes. 

 

Take 30 seconds and compare our front office to then and now. Ron, Mayhew and Marty are a clear upgrade to what we had just 12 months ago. This isn't just potential and pedigree.  We won the NFC east this year. We are now a QB and only a couple of pieces on offense and defense from being a contender. That was not the prevailing opinion just 12 months ago.

But to me, letting a young and upcoming talent, IMO like Kyle Smith leave as is being reported is a HUGE mistake.  

[Est.1974]

1 hour ago, RWJ said:

But to me, letting a young and upcoming talent, IMO like Kyle Smith leave as is being reported is a HUGE mistake.  

That may indeed unfold as a mistake. I don’t get the impression he was being pursued for promotion vacancies around the league, so there is that.
 

Seemed to me from day one he was in trouble. Guess he’s failed to win Rivera over in the last12 months.

[Skinsinparadise]

10 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I find this to be a bit of stretch.

 

But I can see a scenario where bad habits instilled under the prior regime are something Ron wants to rid the organization of.  
 

This is a testament to what a lot of folks wanted to downplay until the 11th hour, that Bruce Allen was clearly a cancer of epic proportion.

 

Yeah I think there has to be another leg to it that is assocated to this.  If I had to guess it, I'd guess they might have had a disagreement that Kyle may have taken to Dan or something like that.  Something that smacked of the previous culture.

 

If its the Bruce connection, I serious doubt that with Ron it was I love this dude but too bad Bruce hired him so he's out.  Russell said he's heard rumbilings but not enough confidence to report anything specific, one of the junkies said they heard of some conflict.  It's all vague stuff but I am guessing somethings happened that rubbed Rob wrong. 

7 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

To Cooley’s point, That’s not entirely true since Doug is still there and he was a key Bruce “damn good” culture guy.  You could even go check his time card fir god sake.   

 

Yeah but Doug is sort or removed from the action at the spot he's at.  I'd think nothing of Cooley's comment if Keim didn't double down on the same thing. 

Edited January 24, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Califan007 The Constipated]

 

I don't think this has anything to do with Kyle Smith's lack of talent evaluation or disagreements between Ron an Kyle or getting rid of everyone who worked under Bruce or Smith not having what it takes to be a valid GM candidate in the NFL.

 

I think it's just that, at this time, Rivera feels that THIS front office needs truly experienced people running the show that know how to develop a workable direction and course for the team, who have developed relationships with a wide variety of GMs and player agents that will help facilitate deals, and who are experienced in handling the off-the-field issues Ron found himself having to handle during his first year here. Kyle Smith doesn't really check off any of those boxes.

 

Kyle could end up being the next John Schneider--VP of Player Personnel for a year with the Redskins then ended up going to GB and I think one other team before being named GM of the Seahawks...wouldn't surprise me one iota if he does. But also would make sense if Rivera does not want to spend these initial years developing a GM right along with developing a young team and changing a culture of mediocrity that had existed among the players.

Edited January 24, 2021 by Califan007

[Califan007 The Constipated]

4 hours ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

That may indeed unfold as a mistake. I don’t get the impression he was being pursued for promotion vacancies around the league, so there is that.
 

 

Are we sure that nobody is or has been showing any interest in Kyle Smith for their front office...even if it's a lateral move?

[drowland]

9 hours ago, Peregrine said:

I saw an article today talking about the leak about Kyle Smith being so against the Haskins pick, demanding to know what the pick was going to be and pleading for it not to be him, and I think it dawned on me that thats why hes gone.  Snyder is trying to save face by letting other people change the culture out of desperation, but make no mistake we still know how vindictive he is.  

 

How do you think he took the news of that report being leaked and how it made him look?  And how it made Smith look?  Plus, where did that report come from?  Certainly not someone that was on Snyder's side.  I think its highly likely as Smith saw how good his last 2 drafts were, but the huge blemish of Haskins, and saw the likely sinking ship of the Snyder ownership, he made a decision for his own career, and leaked that story.  It makes Smith look good(I think its likely true) and ensures he will probably have a very good job once his contract expires as his last 2 drafts appear to be pretty good.  But make no mistake, Snyder probably wanted to fire him the moment that story came out.  Instead, replacing him and allowing his contract to expire gets the same job done without the mess, and its the consequences of Smith working to save his own career(and probably a wise decision on his part).  I wouldnt be surprised if Rivera had to bend on this one especially since he probably values his own guys as much if not more than Smith anyway.

 

Smith didn't need to leak that story to further his career.  The scouting community is a small one and people in front offices around the league know what happened with the Haskins pick without having to read about it in the media.  If anything it wasn't Ron bending for Dan, it was Ron saying enough of the leak game.  That might be what Keim and Cooley are talking about with regards to Kyle's connection to Bruce.  He's playing Bruce's game with the leaks.

Edited January 24, 2021 by drowland

[Warhead36]

1 hour ago, Califan007 said:

 

I don't think this has anything to do with Kyle Smith's lack of talent evaluation or disagreements between Ron an Kyle or getting rid of everyone who worked under Bruce or Smith not having what it takes to be a valid GM candidate in the NFL.

 

I think it's just that, at this time, Rivera feels that THIS front office needs truly experienced people running the show that know how to develop a workable direction and course for the team, who have developed relationships across a wide variety of front offices and player agents that will help facilitate deals, and who are experienced in handling the off-the-field issues Ron found himself having to handle during his first year here. Kyle Smith doesn't really check off any of those boxes.

 

Kyle could end up being the next John Schneider--VP of Player Personnel for a year with the Redskins then ended up going to GB and I think one other team before being named GM of the Seahawks...wouldn't surprise me one iota if he does. But also would make sense if Rivera does not want to spend these initial years developing a GM right along with developing a young team and changing a culture of mediocrity that had existed among the players.

This is how I see it as well. Kyle has his strengths but he's not the right fit to be a GM right now.

[HigSkin]

Good to know we will have DB coach Chris Harris next year.  He was interviewed for the Eagles DC.  Probably a recon interview.

 

 

[dyst]

If Kyle is gone, when is he gone? What about the draft, who will be running the show? You’d assume it should be someone who has a pulse on the college kids + how they fit with this current team.

[Est.1974]

2 hours ago, Califan007 said:

 

Are we sure that nobody is or has been showing any interest in Kyle Smith for their front office...even if it's a lateral move?

Have you seen anything in the media other than after we announced our hires. I mean, we would see something wouldn’t we?