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A New Start! (the Reboot) The Front Office, Ownership, & Coaching Staff Thread


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I don’t get the Kyle love, he did ok as far as we know and apparently didn’t go around playing slap ass with the previous dimwits, but what else? Rivera had the final say on the last go-round with  Brucey and Gruden before that, so does anyone really know how good at his job he was or wasn’t? Very odd his name didn’t come up with all the openings. Hurney was mentioned as being the guy that facilitated cohesiveness among the different departments wherever he’s been good chance that’s pretty much all he’s here for, he’s self admittedly not a talent guy.

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I never have jumped on the Kyle Smith hype train because he has been here 11 years and somehow gets all the credit for 2019 draft even though Bruce Allen was still in charge at that time.  However, it’s TOTALLY a Dan Snyder move to push him out for older past their prime guys only for Smith to eventually latch on somewhere else and become tremendous VPP/GM.  It’s inevitable, it always works out that way.

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What a shame. At least one of Hurney's strengths is identifying young scouting talent and helping that talent grow. Beane, Schoen and Cowden all come from his personnel tree. Hoping he can find more young guys with a good eye for talent

3 minutes ago, -JB- said:

I never have jumped on the Kyle Smith hype train because he has been here 11 years and somehow gets all the credit for 2019 draft even though Bruce Allen was still in charge at that time.  However, it’s TOTALLY a Dan Snyder move to push him out for older past their prime guys only for Smith to eventually latch on somewhere else and become tremendous VPP/GM.  It’s inevitable, it always works out that way.

 

This is not Snyder's fault at all. This is all Rivera who will be owning the decision. If Hurney/Mayhew bomb and Smith helps to build SF into a true perennial contender, then Ron needs to shoulder the blame

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5 minutes ago, method man said:

What a shame. At least one of Hurney's strengths is identifying young scouting talent and helping that talent grow. Beane, Schoen and Cowden all come from his personnel tree. Hoping he can find more young guys with a good eye for talent

 

This is not Snyder's fault at all. This is all Rivera who will be owning the decision. If Hurney/Mayhew bomb and Smith helps to build SF into a true perennial contender, then Ron needs to shoulder the blame

Snyder is the owner, he should be shouldering all executive hirings and firings.  It absolutely is his fault that he runs the organization like a lunatic.  Your Head Coach is hiring the GM to work under him.  Preposterous.

Edited by -JB-
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Just now, -JB- said:

Snyder is the owner, he should be shouldering all executive hirings and firings.  It absolutely is his fault that he runs the organization like a lunatic.

You are right, that it's absolutely his fault that he runs the the org like a lunatic.

 

But ultimately it all falls on Ron, as a result of Snyder giving him autonomy to do whatever he wants.  I think it's fair to say at this point, that Ron is doing exactly how he sees fit.  That's not to say if the results are mediocre, Dan won't poke his head right back in the business.

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6 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

You are right, that it's absolutely his fault that he runs the the org like a lunatic.

 

But ultimately it all falls on Ron, as a result of Snyder giving him autonomy to do whatever he wants.  I think it's fair to say at this point, that Ron is doing exactly how he sees fit.  That's not to say if the results are mediocre, Dan won't poke his head right back in the business.

This isn’t a case of Snyder gets all the blame when we lose and Rivera gets all the credit when we win it is a case of we NEVER have sustained success because Snyder continuously has rotating executives.  It all falls on Snyder because I don’t believe for a second that suddenly shaking up the front office is going to yield any success.  It seems as soon as we start to form an identity and draft players to fit a certain culture we switch gears get rid of guys make new hires of some old veteran guys from yesteryear and change our approach.  It is tiring and never works.  Ever.

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This will be a good front office experiment.  What is more important: "cohesion" among the FO with people with inferior draft records, or "abrasive" personnel guys with better draft track record.

 

I don't feel good about what the results will show.

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Why do people keep writing off Eric Stokes?  He could very well be a better talent evaluator then Kyle.  We fall in love so much with the home grown person, that we don't believe someone could be a better hire.  He was a Fritz Pollard Sout of the Year recipient and he's been praised by RR for is talent evaluation.  If he is what some think he's capable of then Kyle Smith is not needed.

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27 minutes ago, method man said:

What a shame. At least one of Hurney's strengths is identifying young scouting talent and helping that talent grow. Beane, Schoen and Cowden all come from his personnel tree. Hoping he can find more young guys with a good eye for talent

 

This is not Snyder's fault at all. This is all Rivera who will be owning the decision. If Hurney/Mayhew bomb and Smith helps to build SF into a true perennial contender, then Ron needs to shoulder the blame

Yep, this is RR's dog and pony show. May it work out.  Sad day when Kyle departs.  I will be a fan and root for the team that makes him a new GM.  

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3 minutes ago, dckey said:

Why do people keep writing off Eric Stokes?  He could very well be a better talent evaluator then Kyle.  We fall in love so much with the home grown person, that we don't believe someone could be a better hire.  He was a Fritz Pollard Sout of the Year recipient and he's been praised by RR for is talent evaluation.  If he is what some think he's capable of then Kyle Smith is not needed.

I don’t think anyone is writing him off.  I don’t know anything about him, in fact - I’d prefer him to Hurney, sight unseen.

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25 minutes ago, -JB- said:

Snyder is the owner, he should be shouldering all executive hirings and firings

So wait, you guys didn't like when Snyder got involved in football operations in the past, but now that he isn't he's supposed to?

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For me Kyle Smith is said to have stood up and argued against Haskins when everyone else was quiet.  Being on the same page is all well and good when things are going well and align.

 

That standing up probably came across as head butting or being firm. 

 

I don't think it's a bad thing unless he was constantly wrong.

 

Hopefully same page doesn't mean they don't challenge each other too.  Knowing how to disagree with each other may help, as long as they are challenging each other.  That I don't see how we'd ever know.

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7 minutes ago, JoggingGod said:

So wait, you guys didn't like when Snyder got involved in football operations in the past, but now that he isn't he's supposed to?

He’s supposed to build a sound organizational structure and get out of the way.  He constantly meddles which is why there’s a revolving door of executives every few years and no sustained success.  How hard is it to hire the strongest front office GM and get the hell out of the way and let the General Manager control the football side?  He keeps control by working side by side with the Head Coach and letting the Head Coach hire multiple GM types to work under him?  Just ridiculous that Snyder STILL refuses to just build a standard front office because he wants complete control of the football side of things!  Martin Mayhew played for Joe Gibbs!  Don’t ever get it twisted!  You see it.

Edited by -JB-
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I think, more likely than not, Kyle Smith is vastly overrated by the majority fan base. Personally, I’m not that bothered by him staying it going. Rivera has brought his own men in. People he is more comfortable with, it’ll be a wash. 
 

Rivera still calls the shots.

 

I said earlier, underwhelmed but still positive.

 

I’m more concerned about what goes on at QB.

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1 minute ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I don’t think anyone is writing him off.  I don’t know anything about him, in fact - I’d prefer him to Hurney, sight unseen.

Which is my point a lot of NFL people might not know Kyle Smith.  After reading up on some of his work, he was a part of the legion of Boom drafts in Seattle.  He has been praised by Ron Rivera for his talent evaluation.  

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1 hour ago, RedskininATL said:

2009 AND 2013 Produced at least 4 or 5 quality long term starters .    Outside of those years it was pretty bleak yes.   Some bad picks and questionable character picks too.   

 

2015 was a bit of a late bloomer draft.  Two of the guys there couldn't cut it with the Lions, but then when they went to the 49ers and the Seahawks, they suddenly turned things around.  Laken Tomlinson has been good for the 49ers.  Quandre Diggs was good with the Lions, but got even better with the Seahawks and just made a Pro-Bowl.

 

Difficult to say the power structure and impossible to say who was responsible for scouting/hyping/convincing the 49ers to draft someone.  We know that Mayhew was responsible for evaluating Pro Personnel, and someone else the draft.  But he must have had some say.  49ers drafts since 2017 have been mixed but largely good.  Whiffing on their two 1st rounders in 2017 hurts, but they did get George Kittle and a starting DT on Day 3 of that draft.

 

1 hour ago, RedskininATL said:

Ebron over Donald and OBJ (though they had CJ and Golden Tate on roster already) can be brought up too.     Hopefully he's learned something from that run with Detroit, being with some better organizations and will be better at the role with us.    It can't be any worse than what we've had (up until very recently)

 

Hopefully he's learned not to overdraft TE's.  Pettigrew was a good, but not great TE, that slowly got worse and worse from injuries.  Ebron was more dynamic, but not that great.

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What I'm interested in, less than the Kyle Smith leaving news, is the whole of who else we're bringing in here. Carolina had some good scouts under Hurney, many of whom are GMs now (Buffalo). I'd be curious to see if he taps that Carolina line for more scouts or people to promote. I wonder if they're all under contract and or looking for promotions. 

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I'd be willing to bet we have folks here saying that Kyle is overrated, who also applauded his promotions.  In the vein of, convincing one's self that pretty much every move this franchise makes is good, at least until it's abundantly clear that it isn't.

 

I'm banking on his departure having to do with something he did that rubbed Ron the wrong way vs. him not being good at as job or as good at his job as those replacing him.  Which to be fair, could be worthy of his removal.  Guess time will tell, and by time - I mean Chris Russell.

Edited by BatteredFanSyndrome
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1 hour ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Sad, we have to look to Chris Russell to get the dirt on 'why'.  We hear folks here talk about how the DC media is out to get the team, but I've always thought they are typically pansies when it comes to dropping dimes.

What did Chris Russell say today about Kyle Smith?  I missed it.

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