JK Rowling and the Woke Cancellation

[LadySkinsFan]

I've never read a J. K. Rowling book nor seen any of any of the Harry Potter movies. She has the right to her own opinions, and to express them. Unfortunately, the internet platforms such as Twitter and Facebook allow their admins to delete posts/accounts that don't support trans. They don't delete posts/accounts that advocate violence against women, saying that those things don't violate community standards. 

[Destino]

Any movement that attacks studies, science, and experts engaging in legitimate research if it doesn’t agree with their preconceived conclusions is suspect.  I’m not saying that they must be wrong, but that behavior has to be considered questionable.  
 

 

[Jumbo]

31 minutes ago, Destino said:

Any movement that attacks studies, science, and experts engaging in legitimate research if it doesn’t agree with their preconceived conclusions is suspect.

 

i wish you'd let up on the constant hazing of fundamentalist christians

 

typical catholic

[DCSaints_fan]

I mean, if a dude is willing to get cut, Im not going to doubt their sincerity

[Die Hard]

1 hour ago, Renegade7 said:

People shouldn't be afraid to say what's on their minds, pre-Internet it was always true you can't make everyone happy no matter what you do or say.

People shouldn’t fear acknowledging what their experiencing (thinking, feeling, doing, etc).

 

But we should absolutely discriminate who we share with. Otherwise, we’re violating boundaries - ours and others. 
 

Not everyone deserves a right to hear our stories. 
 

So when you have an urge to share your story (opinions, thoughts, beliefs, emotions) with just anyone (General audience/public), you really need to ask yourself what’s the need/motivation behind it?!?

 

Typically it’s egoic. And rightly so, you’re going to trigger the ego in others.

 

 

[The Evil Genius]

Amazingly the child actors (specifically Radcliffe and Watson) turned out to be much better people than JK.

[Die Hard]

11 minutes ago, DCSaints_fan said:

I mean, if a dude is willing to get cut, Im not going to doubt their sincerity

I get the sentiment. 
 

But that’s also self-harm.

 

Resiliency can be a virtue. It can also be destructive (lead to neglect and ultimately harm).
 

If you can’t change your situation, resiliency is a virtue.

 

But if you don’t have to get cut, but you intentionally go out looking for a fight, even if it’s jus fightin words, there’s some deeper self-destructive tendencies that should probably be addressed.

[Destino]

9 minutes ago, Jumbo said:

 

i wish you'd let up on the constant hazing of fundamentalist christians

 

typical catholic

I do it because I want to save them.  Out of love.  (And because I’m an asshole.)

[The Evil Genius]

 

 

[Renegade7]

2 hours ago, PF Chang said:

 

It's growing. I didn't care that the statue of Columbus was dragged down. But I've started to wonder - how much longer is the US capital called Washington? Do I care about that? Washington owned over a hundred slaves. There is no real criteria for cancellation and what's the difference really between Columbus and Washington here? I'm starting to expect in my lifetime the capital name will change. 

 

He without sin cast the first stone on this whole cancel anyone that isn't perfect discussion.  That's going too far and sounds very much like society canibalizing itself.

 

Washington emptied the clip so these cancel culture folks could have the constitutional right to be cancel culture folks, that's very different then the track record Columbus had. Columbus double downed on his reprehensible behavior, George Washington waited until he died before freeing his slaves, but he did do it.

 

It wouldn't shock me if MLK really did cheat on his wife(i don't believe he raped anyway), same time he made the ultimate sacrifice that lead to my birth not being illegal and having to go through what Trevor Noah did as a kid in South Africa. He's 4 years older then me, so he's not talking from a perspective of when tv was black and white, that could've been my childhood.

 

So much of this cancel culture I believe is rooted in a lack of context of history due to how it's taught in school, that no one is perfect, and some are less perfect them otherwise. That does not mean they are all equally f'd up across the board because they are all imperfect.

 

Maybe one day we'll back to reality on the impossible standards some folks want to set for their leaders.  That doesn't mean have no standards, just don't give a test that even they can't pass and be mad everyone fails it.  That's not addressing a problem, that looking for one.

[Renegade7]

1 hour ago, LadySkinsFan said:

I've never read a J. K. Rowling book nor seen any of any of the Harry Potter movies. She has the right to her own opinions, and to express them. Unfortunately, the internet platforms such as Twitter and Facebook allow their admins to delete posts/accounts that don't support trans. They don't delete posts/accounts that advocate violence against women, saying that those things don't violate community standards. 

 

Tolerance of intolerance is the ultimate weakness of pure freedom of expression.

 

Twitter is slowly starting to get that after finally censoring Trump, Facebook has decided to monetize it instead.  This conversation feels like it's been around forever and merely moving to different platforms in the 21st Century. 

 

It's no fun watching society decide if your own safety is a black or white issue, recent riots expand on that. I did read JK's entire essay in the OP, I challenge Ratcliff and Watson to expand on their feeling instead the easy "give Folks whatever they want without understanding the actual issue" route.

 

JK isn't right about everything, but she's spot on with her concern with folks going all in on the Trans route as kids then as adults wishing the conversation wasn't so much on their right to do it, maybe why they wanted to do it would've helped them more.  Had a cousin who's daughter went through that, acted like her son as a teenager, then moved to Texas and became some guy's wife. In happy she didn't get surgery while trying to figure herself out, which is one of the hardest parts of being a teenager anyway, no trans conversation necessary.

 

I'm convinced a lot of folks want to eliminate others for differing opinions on controversial topics that comes near the topic of their own safety like it's an opinion up for discussion.  Some folks pick up on that and think just supporting them is what they need, a lot of folks on Twitter just need to STFU and get more involved on the ground with these issues instead throwing digital Molotov ****tails like that's helping. 

 

It's like digital rioting the more I think about it, not actual protesting.

[visionary]

Basically from what I've seen, JK seems to be saying provocative stuff to piss people off, and keeps making it worse.  A lot of people who grew up with her books and spent years being huge fans are really hurt by this, including people who used her books to keep from losing themselves to despair and suicide at young ages and now they feel betrayed and in some cases as if she wants them to not exist.

 

 

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

I've always felt that "woke" isn't really so much about the individual that the woke compliment is being bestowed upon.  Rather, it's the person doing the complimenting patting themselves on the back and saying they're woke, because in order say someone else is, you've gotta understand it and be a part of it yourself.  It's not so much saying that someone else is woke, it's bragging that you are, too.

[Burgold]

The "feet of clay" issue is one I sometimes struggle with. That is, where is the line I have to draw between artist and their art. There have been many brilliant artists especially in the field of music who turned out to be really ****ty people. Sometimes, that results in me looking at their work anew or at the extreme side stopping my consumption of the art. Most often, it involves the use of the asterisk. The easiest example is the one I frequently used with Bill Clinton. When people asked how I felt about him I answered with four words: ****ty guy. Good President.

 

On this issue, I'm a big inclusion guy and against most forms of exclusion. A trans lifestyle does me no harm. Let them live. Let them be called what they want to be called. Let them live a happy life. I've been debating on writing an essay/op ed in the near future in which I talk about the American Melting Pot. I have always loved the concept and still do, but I think I've slowly been revising it to the American Stew. I like the imagery of a pot where the flavors do blend and cook together, but that you can still see the individual ingredients and still taste the individual flavors even as the dish becomes a coherent and complimentary meal.

 

Some of the tweets I read from Rowling rub me wrong. I can see how people with a dog in the fight (this is not a plug for dog fighting) could be really angered buy it, moreso because they invested love into the books of JK Rowling. They probably thought of her in heroic turns and when she declared Dumbledore gay that probably doubled up how they felt. So, these statements were not only a shot across the bow they were a betrayal. A betrayal from a childhood love. 

[Going Commando]

There wasn't anything wrong with anything Rowling said.  There is a silent majority out there that is getting tired of the bullying of these hateful little twitter mediocrities that use stuff like this to feel important and virtuous.

[CousinsCowgirl84]

12 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

There wasn't anything wrong with anything Rowling said.  There is a silent majority out there that is getting tired of the bullying of these hateful little twitter mediocrities that use stuff like this to feel important and virtuous.

Rowling should have known better... she can say what ever she likes, she said it. People react to what she says the way they like.  This is the result...

 

I don’t really like cancel culture but if we are gonna say she had the right to say it cancel culture is really someone saying the opposite thing and winning the argument.

[bearrock]

What exactly is cancel culture?  If it's disagreeing with someone online, no longer buying whatever product that is associated with that person, those seem like free exercise of a person's prerogative.  If it crosses the line to illegal activity like doxxing, obviously that's a no no.  If you petition an employer to fire someone as part of "cancelling", is that all that different from boycotting something?

 

We have the right to express our opinions.  We don't have the right to be free from consequences of those opinions (within legal boundaries).

[Going Commando]

19 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

Rowling should have known better... she can say what ever she likes, she said it. People react to what she says the way they like.  This is the result...

 

I don’t really like cancel culture but if we are gonna say she had the right to say it cancel culture is really someone saying the opposite thing and winning the argument.

 

The people criticizing her aren't arguing with her.  They're bullying her into silence.  They're too stupid and immature to handle a nuanced argument like the one she made.  They view principled and reasoned dissent as a personal attack and they've been allowed to dominate the conversation on their issues by the well meaning indulgence of a large, sympathetic left-leaning public who isn't paying close attention to these tempest in a tea-kettle free speech controversies.

[dchogs]

I thought that piece was well-written (i guess, not so surprisingly), and JK's position seems reasonable to me.  Maybe there's something i'm missing? 

 

... and cancel culture is what it is.  you can share your opinion, but there can be consequences.  I don't share much on social media that i'm not 100% on.  if i get doxxed/fired/whatever for supporting gay rights, women's rights, BLM, so be it.  i believe in that stuff enough to take any hits that happen.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

I think the idea of "cancel culture" is annoying and eye-roll-worthy. But I do agree that it's legal and one repercussion to openly sharing your opinions publicly. As a few have said, freedom of speech doesn't mean we don't have to face repercussions. 

[Going Commando]

17 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

I think the idea of "cancel culture" is annoying and eye-roll-worthy. But I do agree that it's legal and one repercussion to openly sharing your opinions publicly. As a few have said, freedom of speech doesn't mean we don't have to face repercussions. 

 

It's a form of outgroup bullying that relies on everyone to adhere to a strict, dogmatically-sourced orthodoxy of ideology and behavior.  It's the other side of the coin for bigoted religious fundamentalism.

[youngestson]

45 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

The people criticizing her aren't arguing with her.  They're bullying her into silence.  They're too stupid and immature to handle a nuanced argument like the one she made.  

I'm slightly embarrassed to admit I've watched much of this unfold on twitter. I had young kids during the hight of Potter fandom and...well sue me.

Rowling certainly more able to express thoughts and ideas more coherently than those who attack her, and I suspect that elevates the anger of those doing the attacking. Not a surprise a professional writer can write better, but she's pretty darned sharp. Not someone with whom I'd like to get in a word battle.

 

Now for the stab at expressing a thought at least semi-coherently:

 

I would suspect the immediacy of the internet helps create battles such as these. When people can vent so quickly it leaves no opportunity to reflect on the ideas or opinions being vented against, or a meaningful analysis of your own position. In the Rowling case, much of the attacks fall into the category  of "So What You're Really Saying Is..." when that was not really what she wrote, or a very narrow interpretation of it. 

 

That move is pretty standard in the internet debating world. I'm guilty of it myself sometimes. But that immediate reaction too often means there is no reflection. No time to digest or reflect on information and ideas or data. And once that original position is taken and put down in words somewhere in the interwebs people are extremely  unlikely to let that idea evolve, or take on shades of meaning, or to recognize its limitations. To become even more entrenched and angry and hostile. Just spraying invectives and accusations hose-like off into the electronic platforms. 

[PleaseBlitz]

I haven't read much of the Twitter spat, but understand enough of what is going on.  I am a big Harry Potter fan, read the books growing up and have enjoyed introducing my daughter to the whole fictional world.  I guess my thoughts are:

 

1.  JK Rowling is entitled to her opinion, and while I don't agree with her here, I don't think she is so far off-base that she must be ostracized.  It's a nuanced subject, and people that spend a lot of time on Twitter just suck at nuance.

2.  She is a billionaire and therefore is insulated from any societal pressure that anyone short of a government can apply to her.

3.  With her billions and her many fans, comes a responsibility.  She should be more aware of her station in life.  A generation literally came of age reading her stories and they, and i truly believe this, developed a large part of their value system from reading her books.  Those values are kindness, inclusion, equality, the importance of friendship, and having the courage to do the right thing.  If Rowling has opinions, that's fine, but she should be way more circumspect in announcing them.  Why she has chosen to die on this hill baffles me.  It is so off-brand for her to be like, **** you all, I can say what i want because I'm a billionaire, which is how she comes off now.  

4.  Dust-ups on Twitter are fun to watch, but ultimately pointless.  Today I keep seeing people trying to "cancel" John Krasinski, the ****ing guy from The Office.  GTFO.

[TheGoodBits]

She’s absolutely, objectively correct that people should not be going through permanent physical changes as teenagers. Indeed, people should avoid making ANY permanent life decisions as teenagers. 
 

 

[Mr. Sinister]

I freely admit, the talk of ones sexuality/sexual compatibility beyond gay/straight, gets confusing, even among people in that crowd. It's why I don't comment much on it.

 

That's why, if you don't know, own it. It'll be alright.