The "Re-Opening" the Economy Thread

[visionary]

 

[tshile]

17 minutes ago, steve09ru said:

I don't necessarily disagree but I feel like more has been done outside of the couple things you mentioned.  At least where I am at, and where I have been, folks have been doing a great job of social distancing and following guidelines.  You still have folks that don't but I wouldn't say the majority (more like 80%+ following guidelines in terms of masks and making a good effort to social distance themselves while in lines/stores).  Your call out on "anectotal examples not making up for what seems to be the majority" is doing just that in terms of an anecdotal assumption based off what you see so I think that can easily vary and probably does based on where you are.

so, I’m basing it off quite a few things (including data about how much people are actually social distancing) but ultimately I’m not researching it so sure - in some sense it is anecdotal. But my point is that there’s a lot of places just like mine, and that the issue is regional, and that it doesn’t matter for me if you’re wearing your masks in <insert city>. What matters for me is if people in my city are. And then the stare and outward depending on how people move. 
 

so in my case it’s not even my town. It’s all of northern VA. And parts of Maryland, West Virginia, and PA because people here go there all the time and come back; and people there come here all the time and go back. Lots of people moving about in the DC metro area constantly. 
 

but back to the point - what you describe are things to limit the spread. Social distancing. It’s a way to lower demand on hospitals and save lives. 
 

but it’s not in the big picture a real advancement on fighting this. Medical advancements, improvements in medical resources, and a vaccine are what’s needed. As well as testing to know how bad it actually is. And we don’t really have any movement on those things. 
 

those are the things that matter when we talk about it being safe again. When we talk about normalcy. 
 

what you’re talking about are items that minimize  the impact. I think there’s a huge difference. 
 

and what’s not being discussed is how dense the general public is. If you don’t think saying “we’re reopening” is going to translate to “hey it’s all over finally” for a lot of people then I think you’re being naive. 
 

the people impatient to reopen remind me of the people that say things like “I’m not living in my house for the foreseeable future that’s bull****”

 

they just don’t understand how they could end up dead. Or end up killing someone. Someone they care about. 
 

im sure some do and just don’t care. But it seems to me many dont. 
 

The experts set guidelines for reopening when this started. To the best of my knowledge, 0 states that have reopened or are planning to shortly have met those requirements. Last I heard like 3 of them met 1 requirement or 2. 
 

so yeah, I’m gonna sit firmly on the idea that reopening right now is dumb. And based on what we’re seeing, anytime soon is dumb. And if you think otherwise you either have other priorities, you just don’t care about people dying, both, or maybe you’re not smart enough to even have an actual reason you’re just saying it. (General “you” , again)

[The Evil Genius]

So Trump's said he's been taking hydroxycloroquine and a zinc tablet for about a week and a half now.

 

Considering he already takes Propecia, I'm guessing he doesn't really know about the possible side effects of the anti-malaria drug...

 

Edited May 18, 2020 by The Evil Genius

[steve09ru]

2 minutes ago, tshile said:

so, I’m basing it off quite a few things (including data about how much people are actually social distancing) but ultimately I’m not researching it so sure - in some sense it is anecdotal. But my point is that there’s a lot of places just like mine, and that the issue is regional, and that it doesn’t matter for me if you’re wearing your masks in <insert city>. What matters for me is if people in my city are. And then the stare and outward depending on how people move. 
 

so in my case it’s not even my town. It’s all of northern VA. And parts of Maryland, West Virginia, and PA because people here go there all the time and come back; and people there come here all the time and go back. Lots of people moving about in the DC metro area constantly. 
 

but back to the point - what you describe are things to limit the spread. Social distancing. It’s a way to lower demand on hospitals and save lives. 
 

but it’s not in the big picture a real advancement on fighting this. Medical advancements, improvements in medical resources, and a vaccine are what’s needed. As well as testing to know how bad it actually is. And we don’t really have any movement on those things. 
 

those are the things that matter when we talk about it being safe again. When we talk about normalcy. 
 

what you’re talking about are items that minimize  the impact. I think there’s a huge difference. 
 

and what’s not being discussed is how dense the general public is. If you don’t think saying “we’re reopening” is going to translate to “hey it’s all over finally” for a lot of people then I think you’re being naive. 
 

the people impatient to reopen remind me of the people that say things like “I’m not living in my house for the foreseeable future that’s bull****”

 

they just don’t understand how they could end up dead. Or end up killing someone. Someone they care about. 
 

im sure some do and just don’t care. But it seems to me many dont. 
 

The experts set guidelines for reopening when this started. To the best of my knowledge, 0 states that have reopened or are planning to shortly have met those requirements. Last I heard like 3 of them met 1 requirement or 2. 
 

so yeah, I’m gonna sit firmly on the idea that reopening right now is dumb. And based on what we’re seeing, anytime soon is dumb. And if you think otherwise you either have other priorities, you just don’t care about people dying, both, or maybe you’re not smart enough to even have an actual reason you’re just saying it. (General “you” , again)

Yeah I definitely agree that we need to keep moving forward for treatments, vaccines, cures, etc and that it is more a regional basis.

 

What I would be curious is to find out how Florida is doing outside of the southeast counties of Broward, Miami-Dade and Palm Beach who were not a part of the reopen plan where those areas are accounting for the majority of cases in Florida and in those instances, I agree that they need to be on a harder lockdown measure compared to a less populated area of the state.  Think Nova remaining locked down vs. south central va

[Barry.Randolphe]

50 minutes ago, The Evil Genius said:

So Trump's said he's been taking hydroxycloroquine and a zinc tablet for about a week and a half now.

 

Considering he already takes Propecia, I'm guessing he doesn't really know about the possible side effects of the anti-malaria drug...

 

Imagine if this is how it all ends.....it would be the most Trump way ever to go out.

[tshile]

@steve09ru

honestly I’d also like to see a more firm, unified message from our political leaders. 
 

too many people get their opinions from the politicians they are attached to. That’s a both sides issue - I’m not trying to just throw one party under that bus. 
 

I feel like the lack of unification (trump has a level of blame but it’s clearly not just him) has created a lot of under-informed opinions that are guiding behavior. 
 

the takeaway most people seem to have isn’t along the lines of “we need to focus on saving our country, on saving our neighbors”

 

it’s a lot of other stuff. 
 

a common saying I heard while growing up is that politics are so divided it would take a national tragedy to get people to get past it, and even then it would just be temporary

 

i feel like this is a national tragedy and people still can’t get over their ideological bull**** and respect reality for what it is, respect experts for what they are, and decide that, for maybe like 3-5 months, people will put the many lives of neighbors and people they don’t know, above this bull**** mentality and culture we have developed where everyone’s a selfish asshole where political ideology is all that matters and that thinks they’re qualified to object to experts because they talked about it with their friends and maybe read something on the internet one time. 
 

comparing deaths to other things (wars, 9/11, plane crashes or other terrorist acts or  disasters) it’s just crazy that people say things like “the cure is worse than the disease” and “we need to reopen we can’t stay shut down forever!”

 

it’s astounding to me. 

[China]

Potential COVID-19 exposure at Lucas County barbershop

 

CURTICE, Ohio — The Toledo-Lucas County Health Department is asking to speak with anyone who visited Bob's Barbershop on Friday, May 15.

 

A health department spokesperson confirms there is a potential COVID-19 exposure concern for anyone at the business at 8230 Jerusalem Rd. in Curtice.

 

Anyone who was at the barbershop is asked to call the health department at 419-213-4060.

 

The state just gave businesses like barbershops, salons and spas the green light to reopen starting on Friday. 

[Renegade7]

You might as well have every place we go to send us an email when that happens so we can send them to spam there's going to be so many.

 

Is that the plan? To just open and close every business over and over again and tracking down folks who may have been exposed?  

[China]

6 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Is that the plan? 

 

[tshile]

53 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

Is that the plan? To just open and close every business over and over again and tracking down folks who may have been exposed? 

Virginia lost control of contact tracing within like 2 weeks of the shut down. 
 

I can’t imagine contact tracing during reopening 😂

[Larry]

10 minutes ago, tshile said:

Virginia lost control of contact tracing within like 2 weeks of the shut down. 
 

I can’t imagine contact tracing during reopening 😂

 

And the Spin Machine is already telling people to resist contract tracing.  Big Government Mind Control, don't you know?  

 

Me, I'd be really skeptical about any kind of contact tracing app, myself.  Based on the abuses I've seen the government make of other tech. 

 

But I still find it maddening that we have an entire political party who have made the conscious decision to enthusiastically commit to opposing any and all options for even resisting the lethal plague which is killing thousands as we speak. 

 

I mean, I can at least grasp the motive for opposing every single environmental law ever.  They're getting paid to do it, by people who profit from polluting.  It's evil, but it's at least logical. 

 

But I don't see any big special interest paying them millions of dollars to see to it that it kills as many Americans as possible.  Who benefits from that?

[PokerPacker]

4 hours ago, The Evil Genius said:

So Trump's said he's been taking hydroxycloroquine and a zinc tablet for about a week and a half now.

 

Considering he already takes Propecia, I'm guessing he doesn't really know about the possible side effects of the anti-malaria drug...

95% certain he's lying.  He's been pushing that drug for so long, and rather than conceding to the doctors, he's doubling down.

[Barry.Randolphe]

2 minutes ago, PokerPacker said:

95% certain he's lying.  He's been pushing that drug for so long, and rather than conceding to the doctors, he's doubling down.

 

that's my feeling too. I keep thinking about the grift on this....how does he benefit from this drug? there's always a grift with him and his family

[PokerPacker]

4 minutes ago, Barry.Randolphe said:

 

that's my feeling too. I keep thinking about the grift on this....how does he benefit from this drug? there's always a grift with him and his family

Don't quote me on this, but I thought I heard he (or some proxy or whatever) is invested in a company that manufactures it?
 

Otherwise, I'm sticking with him just needing there to be a cure.  He heard an extremely early report with some minor positive things to say about the drug and decided to champion it as the cure-all and everything will be saved, economy won't collapse on him before the election, and he's a big hero.  Now that he's hitched his wagon to it, he refuses to get off.

Edited May 19, 2020 by PokerPacker

[Barry.Randolphe]

2 minutes ago, PokerPacker said:

Don't quote me on this, but I thought I heard he (or some proxy or whatever) is invested in a company that manufactures it?
 

Otherwise, I'm sticking with him just needing there to be a cure.  He heard an extremely early report with some minor positive things to say about the drug and decided to champion it as the cure-all and everything will be saved, economy won't collapse on him before the election, and he's a big hero.  Now that he's hitched his wagon to it, he refuses to get off.

 

I heard that too, but I never saw anything more on it. I just felt it was weird he has attached himself to this specific drug and not any and all possible cures like the Moderna vaccine that has been promising. The fact that he keeps promoting only hydroxychloroquine tells me there's a reason for that.

[TheGoodBits]

5 minutes ago, PokerPacker said:

Don't quote me on this, but I thought I heard he (or some proxy or whatever) is invested in a company that manufactures it?
 

Otherwise, I'm sticking with him just needing there to be a cure.  He heard an extremely early report with some minor positive things to say about the drug and decided to champion it as the cure-all and everything will be saved, economy won't collapse on him before the election, and he's a big hero.  Now that he's hitched his wagon to it, he refuses to get off.

I believe it’s a commonly available generic drug so I don’t think it’s that. 
 

Dude marked up a hurricane map with a damn sharpie just because he couldn’t take the L. Your second theory is spot on. He’s going to poison himself just to prove a point. 

[PokerPacker]

9 minutes ago, skinsfan_1215 said:

I believe it’s a commonly available generic drug so I don’t think it’s that.

So was Daraprim
 

9 minutes ago, skinsfan_1215 said:

Dude marked up a hurricane map with a damn sharpie just because he couldn’t take the L. Your second theory is spot on. He’s going to poison himself just to prove a point. 

I refer you to my earlier post.  I don't believe he's actually taking it.  Just hyping it up through lies as he does anything else.

[Bacon]

5 hours ago, tshile said:

but it’s not in the big picture a real advancement on fighting this. Medical advancements, improvements in medical resources, and a vaccine are what’s needed. As well as testing to know how bad it actually is. And we don’t really have any movement on those things. 

 

I hope you're not suggesting that zero progress has been made in terms of testing, medical discoveries or vaccine development in the past two months. Because then I would have to spam this thread with numbers and trial results and that would be boring for everyone. 

 

Hell, I will anyway. 

 

Deaths are down 34% from this time last month (Tuesday April 14-Monday April 20 vs Tuesday May 12-Monday May 18). This during a time when doctors began to treat COVID-19's effect on clotting factors and put greater emphasis on plasma treatments. Not to mention, there is now an FDA approved treatment that was barely on the radar two months ago. Medical advancements have saved lives over the course of this pandemic, no doubt about that. 

 

Testing has increased by about 130% since the middle of April (2.48m tests v 1.08m tests, same dates as above). I don't know where people get the idea that we're not testing anybody, maybe they're not keeping up with the data, but we've tested as many people per million (37.5k v 37.1k) as Germany has, a country hailed for its excellent coronavirus response. If you don't believe me, look it up, all of this data is available on Worldometers and Covidtracking. 

 

This morning, Moderna vaccine results showed that human volunteers, not monkeys or mice, had the antibody titers necessary for full immunity. Phase 3 will begin in July. 

 

There has been plenty of movement. It's not like everyone has sat on their hands for the last two months and arbitrarily decided today was the day to reopen. I don't agree with them that now is the time to reopen, but I feel that way because I see the progress that is being made in medicine and believe we're only a few months away from a game-changing breakthrough. So why rush? Time will not look kindly on the reopening efforts. 

Edited May 19, 2020 by Bacon

[tshile]

1 hour ago, Bacon said:

I hope you're not suggesting that zero progress has been made

In terms of reopening last week? Or the week before? Or this week?

 

that was the context of the discussion I was having

 

im aware everyone didn’t just sit around for the last two months. 

Edited May 19, 2020 by tshile

[Bacon]

49 minutes ago, tshile said:

In terms of reopening last week? Or the week before? Or this week?

 

that was the context of the discussion I was having

 

im aware everyone didn’t just sit around for the last two months. 

 

I'm glad. I can't talk to people who still act like it's March and nothing has changed with the virus in two months; they're all over Twitter.  Maybe they're afraid of being lumped in with MAGA lockdown protestors for suggesting something conciliatory, or they just don't know any better. 

 

As great as a silver bullet vaccine would be, for now weekly trends and incremental improvements like the ones I highlighted are the only tools we have to determine the right time to open. How high do those incremental improvements need to pile up for it to be "OK" to reopen? Your guess is as good as mine. The guidelines are a start, but the socioeconomic quirks of this country complicate things. 

 

Here in California, a chunk of our counties are suing the governor because his guidelines are too stringent. They were loosened today. Even individual states can't find workable guidelines within its borders, forget a whole country. 

[daveakl]

Our community pool opening guidelines (spot the problem):

"Patrons should stay at least 6 feet apart from those they do not live with, both in and out of the water.  It is NOT the responsibility of lifeguards to enforce social distancing, it is the responsibility of parents and family units to operate in a manner they are comfortable
with."

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

17 hours ago, Die Hard said:

 

Isn’t that what so many people aspire to in their retirement? 🙂

 

Apparently, you are extraordinary at that! Because I couldn’t do that.

 

The first month was best described as relaxing. As i was telling my wife if i was younger it would have been torture but after 60 you slow down and this was the only extended time off work I have had since I was 16.  But then it got old in a hurry, the crap weather didn't help.  Now it kind of sucks.  I never envisioned this in retirement, I was going to travel, go out etc.  

[JSSkinz]

14 hours ago, steve09ru said:

What I would be curious is to find out how Florida is doing outside of the southeast counties of Broward, Miami-Dade and Palm Beach who were not a part of the reopen plan where those areas are accounting for the majority of cases in Florida and in those instances, I agree that they need to be on a harder lockdown measure compared to a less populated area of the state.  Think Nova remaining locked down vs. south central va

Our Governor is a jackass and is doing his best to suppress info so I doubt we will ever truly know whats going on in Pinellas, Hillsborough, Duval, or other more populated counties.

 

 

Edited May 19, 2020 by JSSkinz

[TradeTheBeal!]

I’m very confident suggesting that Florida has been under-reporting their nursing home numbers from the start.

[spjunkies]

It's so disheartening listening to sports radio hosts like Kevin Sheehan, Al Galdi, Doc Walker all of the Junkies and Chad Dukes acting like this situation is overblown. People like this are making people overconfident that the situation bas been resolved and it's "time to get back to normal".