Welcome to the Redskins Chase Young DE Ohio State

[bakedtater1]

59 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

Charlie Weis on XM radio this morning said that as many or more GM's are more impressed with Tua than they are with Burrow. He said he would take Tua over Burrow. The Tua train is in high gear and he hasn't even been able to work out yet. He also said he believes the Skins are throwing smokescreens out there about taking a QB when he has no doubt they will take Chase Young. We are in a very interesting spot because I still believe teams are gonna try and come up to get Tua.....once we take Young Detroit is gonna have some jackpot offers if they want to drop back.....

We've got the golden ticket!

[Skinsinparadise]

[Riggo#44]

I feel like anyone who compares the Rosen situation last year with Haskins this year didn't watch a snap of either play in their rookie year.

 

Josh Rosen's last 5 starts: 80/146  54.79%    757 yards   1 TD    3 INTs

Dwayne Haskins last 5: 73/124  58.87%    867 yrds    5 TDs    2 INTs

 

Those aren't world-beater numbers, but he was also never supposed to play this year. He really started to flash in that Detroit game, and had some amazing throws down the stretch. Josh wasn't wasn't good, and got worse.

 

 

[KDawg]

51 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

I feel like anyone who compares the Rosen situation last year with Haskins this year didn't watch a snap of either play in their rookie year.

 

Josh Rosen's last 5 starts: 80/146  54.79%    757 yards   1 TD    3 INTs

Dwayne Haskins last 5: 73/124  58.87%    867 yrds    5 TDs    2 INTs

 

Those aren't world-beater numbers, but he was also never supposed to play this year. He really started to flash in that Detroit game, and had some amazing throws down the stretch. Josh wasn't wasn't good, and got worse.

 

 

 

I think you're misunderstanding the "Rosen Situation" (which is now a vocabularly term).

 

It was based on having a quarterback that the new regime didn't believe in, and with a top draft pick the new regime took their guy to be their quarterback. 

 

It wasn't entirely based on statistics. It was based on the fact Kingsbury wanted a different guy. And so he got one. 

[Warhead36]

The Rosen situation was different because the Cards hired the guy who actually coached Murray in college. Of course he's going to want his guy.

 

Rivera is a vet and probably feels both young QBs are going to require similar work. Sure Tua might have more upside(debatable when you factor everything into it)but is it the best usage of resources to spend a #2 overall pick on a project QB when you have a generational pass rush stud sitting right there?

[mhd24]

5 hours ago, Riggo#44 said:

I feel like anyone who compares the Rosen situation last year with Haskins this year didn't watch a snap of either play in their rookie year.

 

Josh Rosen's last 5 starts: 80/146  54.79%    757 yards   1 TD    3 INTs

Dwayne Haskins last 5: 73/124  58.87%    867 yrds    5 TDs    2 INTs

 

Those aren't world-beater numbers, but he was also never supposed to play this year. He really started to flash in that Detroit game, and had some amazing throws down the stretch. Josh wasn't wasn't good, and got worse.

 

 

I wouldn’t say he flashed against the Lions.  He was horribly inaccurate all day.  The WRs bailed him out constantly.  His lack of accuracy is his major negative

[SkinssRvA]

IMO Tua has a much higher floor/ceiling than haskins.  Much, much higher.  He is my pick at #2 if we get a clean medical.  That's not to say anything bad about CY, I think he has huge upside.  But a healthy Tua is arguably the best player in the draft at the most important position in all of sports.  If you can hit at the QB spot it can revolutionize a franchise.  If health were not a concern Tua'd be your #1 pick.  

[HTTRDynasty]

38 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

I wouldn’t say he flashed against the Lions.  He was horribly inaccurate all day.  The WRs bailed him out constantly.  His lack of accuracy is his major negative

 

Agreed that it's currently his biggest negative. 

 

Which is why the Zampese hire was such an underrated, crucial move this offseason.  Our previous QB coach had never even coached in the NFL before, which is laughable when you consider we then drafted a raw QB in the first round whose bad footwork/mechanics were one of his biggest flaws.

[Burgold]

44 minutes ago, SkinssRvA said:

IMO Tua has a much higher floor/ceiling than haskins.  Much, much higher.  He is my pick at #2 if we get a clean medical.  That's not to say anything bad about CY, I think he has huge upside.  But a healthy Tua is arguably the best player in the draft at the most important position in all of sports.  If you can hit at the QB spot it can revolutionize a franchise.  If health were not a concern Tua'd be your #1 pick.  

I wouldn't trust Tua to stay healthy even with a clean medical. I'm sure he had a clean medical at the start of his last two years in college. I don't know many players who couldn't hold up to the college game and had multiple serious injuries who suddenly became healthy and invulnerable as a pro. A quarterback is going to take hits. Big hits. Blindside hits. A mobile qb almost always takes more hits.

 

As I've said before, it may just be because the RGIII injury bug has made me skittish, but I wouldn't roll those dice. More importantly, the last group I'd trust to deliver a meaningful clean medical report is the Redskins.

Edited March 3, 2020 by Burgold

[50yrSKINSfan]

19 minutes ago, SkinssRvA said:

IMO Tua has a much higher floor/ceiling than haskins.  Much, much higher.  He is my pick at #2 if we get a clean medical.  That's not to say anything bad about CY, I think he has huge upside.  But a healthy Tua is arguably the best player in the draft at the most important position in all of sports.  If you can hit at the QB spot it can revolutionize a franchise.  If health were not a concern Tua'd be your #1 pick.  

This is right on. It is very rare that a team has a chance to draft the best QB prospect in the draft and we have not had the best QB in the league since god knows so IMHO I think it is a no brainer to draft Tua. I am sure CY is a good prospect but his performance in his last 2 games left a lot to be desired, plus the guy takes a powder on the combine. What is he trying to hide.  I do not see Reggie White, LT or Von Miller in him and he is on a team with a great D line that always has a lead so he can just tee off. On top of that we just drafted a pass rusher last year and are we going to draft pass rushers every year? If you are not going to take Tua then trade the pick. It is a great year for Tackles and receivers. Trade the pick for 3 # 1s. Get the LB from Clem with the 1st pick. Next get the best receiver on the board, next the best tackle and you will see a vast improvement in your team. Work on your O line so we can finally run the ball. Much better having 3 good players than one unless that one is the best QBin the draft. Not trying to trash Haskins but in my eyes I can see Tua being as good a Mahomes or the kid on the Ravens. I don't see Haskins as being in their league. 

[50yrSKINSfan]

16 minutes ago, Burgold said:

I wouldn't trust Tua to stay healthy even with a clean medical. I'm sure he had a clean medical at the start of his last two years in college. I don't know many players who couldn't hold up to the college game and had multiple serious injuries then suddenly became healthy and invulnerable as a pro. A quarterback is going to take hits. Big hits. Blindside hits. A mobile qb almost always takes more hits.

 

As I've said before, it may just be because the RGIII injury bug has made me skittish, but I wouldn't roll those dice. More importantly, the last group I'd trust to deliver a meaningful clean medical report is the Redskins.

Lots of QBs had injuries in college and our own RG3 had knee surgery before we drafted him if I am not mistaken. Guy gets hurt you fix it. Tua is worth the risk. Brady, Big Ben, Rodgers have all been hurt, it is part of the game. Imagine the excitement of getting the best QB prospect for the Redskins! 

[SkinssRvA]

22 minutes ago, Burgold said:

I wouldn't trust Tua to stay healthy even with a clean medical. I'm sure he had a clean medical at the start of his last two years in college. I don't know many players who couldn't hold up to the college game and had multiple serious injuries then suddenly became healthy and invulnerable as a pro. A quarterback is going to take hits. Big hits. Blindside hits. A mobile qb almost always takes more hits.

 

As I've said before, it may just be because the RGIII injury bug has made me skittish, but I wouldn't roll those dice. More importantly, the last group I'd trust to deliver a meaningful clean medical report is the Redskins.

The concerns about his health are legit.  No question from me.  But I'm willing to bet on Tua because the potential a great starting caliber qb can bring to your team changes the team's outlook for a decade +.  I'm not overlooking his health problems - it has the potential to ruin his career.  But I'm willing to take a chance.  As good as chase young is you cannot win the big one (of course there are a few anomalies) without a QB.  Even this past year - best defensive line with DROY pass rusher.  Can't win without good QB play and who knows if they will ever be back.  A great pass rusher is a piece to the puzzle.  a great QB solves the puzzle.  

 

There are certain teams that are perennial contenders, and that's because of one position.  and it ain't pass rusher.  

[kingdaddy]

9 minutes ago, 50yrSKINSfan said:

This is right on. It is very rare that a team has a chance to draft the best QB prospect in the draft and we have not had the best QB in the league since god knows so IMHO I think it is a no brainer to draft Tua. I am sure CY is a good prospect but his performance in his last 2 games left a lot to be desired, plus the guy takes a powder on the combine. What is he trying to hide.  I do not see Reggie White, LT or Von Miller in him and he is on a team with a great D line that always has a lead so he can just tee off. On top of that we just drafted a pass rusher last year and are we going to draft pass rushers every year? If you are not going to take Tua then trade the pick. It is a great year for Tackles and receivers. Trade the pick for 3 # 1s. Get the LB from Clem with the 1st pick. Next get the best receiver on the board, next the best tackle and you will see a vast improvement in your team. Work on your O line so we can finally run the ball. Much better having 3 good players than one unless that one is the best QBin the draft. Not trying to trash Haskins but in my eyes I can see Tua being as good a Mahomes or the kid on the Ravens. I don't see Haskins as being in their league. 

I think I agree with you and some of the others on Tua...his stock is escalating to the top pick in the draft. I love the idea of Chase Young but not so much that I'm blind to other options. 

I think Tua is and will be better than Haskins in the NFL...but I trust our new regime to do what's best. If we can win with DH then I'm cool with building around him too.

[Burgold]

1 minute ago, 50yrSKINSfan said:

Lots of QBs had injuries in college and our own RG3 had knee surgery before we drafted him if I am not mistaken. Guy gets hurt you fix it. Tua is worth the risk. Brady, Big Ben, Rodgers have all been hurt, it is part of the game. Imagine the excitement of getting the best QB prospect for the Redskins! 

Using RGIII as an example of a QB who got hurt and had a long, healthy, and stellar career? Tua had two very serious season ending injuries. You could be right that it was just bad luck and he will never get hurt again nor will a dislocated hip impact him in the future, but color me way worse than merely skeptical.

 

Just read through Rodgers' wiki page to look at his college career. It reads pretty damn sterling. No mention of lost years or devastating injuries that knocked out half a season plus. What kind of injury/how severe was the injury Rodgers suffered and how many games did he sit?

[HTTRDynasty]

Still one of my favorite still shots from the 2019 college season:

 

[skinsmania123]

I can't stand the Tua talk personally.  It would be Groundhog Day if the Skins draft him. Lets just not take a guy with an injury history. How well has that worked out for us? And if those severe injuries happened in college anyone care to speculate what will happen to him in the NFL?  It is not worth the risk.

 

I say stick with Haskins, let him have his opportunity.   Draft wisely by choosing the immediate impact player Chase Young.  Do something good in FA.  Win now.

Edited March 3, 2020 by skinsmania123

[wit33]

1 hour ago, SkinssRvA said:

IMO Tua has a much higher floor/ceiling than haskins.  Much, much higher.  He is my pick at #2 if we get a clean medical.  That's not to say anything bad about CY, I think he has huge upside.  But a healthy Tua is arguably the best player in the draft at the most important position in all of sports.  If you can hit at the QB spot it can revolutionize a franchise.  If health were not a concern Tua'd be your #1 pick.  

I’m most intrigued by Haskins’ ceiling— His top 5 type arm and early signs of great feel in the pocket/extending plays gives him a shot to be as good as any. Is it likely he becomes a top 5 QB? No, but the tools exist.

 

Im a strong pass on Tua because of Haskins ceiling potential. If it was Daniel Jones, I’d feel different  

Edited March 3, 2020 by wit33

[HTTRDynasty]

One thing I wonder in regards to Rivera’s inner monologue: he was one game away from winning the Super Bowl in 2016 after a spectacular regular season and playoff run, but then he ran into the dominant force that goes by the name of Von. He had the far better QB in that game but the QB was rendered ineffective due to a dominant pass rush. I wonder how much influence, if any, that has on Rivera’s thinking in this draft. 

[SkinssRvA]

53 minutes ago, wit33 said:

 

I’m most intrigued by Haskins’ ceiling— His top 5 type arm and early signs of great feel in the pocket/extending plays gives him a shot to be as good as any. Is it likely he becomes a top 5 QB? No, but the tools exist.

 

Im a strong pass on Tua because of Haskins ceiling potential. If it was Daniel Jones, I’d feel different  

What QBs in NFL history have completed the career arch we would be asking of Haskins?  All he has is a decent arm.  I'm not even saying good because he was wildly inaccurate last year.  If by top 5 arm you mean arm strength (something scouts rank as the least important) then sure.  So much more goes into arm talent than just being able to throw the ball a mile.  IMO and from what we have heard, Haskins has a very real inability to process information as quickly as necessary.  Arguably the number 1 trait you want in a QB.  

 

I don't mean this to be a **** on haskins party even though im kind of ****ting on haskins.  He's like if Cardale Jones played a full year.  This is the end product.  I wish him the best I hope he proves me wrong and has long and prosperous career.  But Tua is rare, where Haskins IMO is not.  If you can keep a rare talent alive and healthy spraying the ball and being truly instinctive, you need to take that chance.  My gut tells me our FO knows this.  My gut says Tua is our pick.

 

Edit: I think his ceiling is Andy Dalton 

 

Edit to the Edit: Haskins' ceiling is Andy Dalton.  I think Tua could be another R Wilson

 

 

Edited March 3, 2020 by SkinssRvA

[Skin'emAlive]

Super Bowl winning Russel Wilson? HOF quarterback R Wilson? Guy who has almost never been injured, Wilson? That’s where you are placing Tua right now? Come on. 
 

Look, in this league your best bet to be successful is to get a rookie qb with promise, without using premium draft assets like the #2 pick on them. Rather, It’s far more effective ( though difficult) drafting them later and building and elite core around him before his cost skyrockets. 
 

Play it simple, build around our core DL, and help Haskins develop. 

[Burgold]

5 hours ago, SkinssRvA said:

What QBs in NFL history have completed the career arch we would be asking of Haskins? 

 

 

A ton. Historically, a large percentage... a huge percentage of Hall of Fame QBs had abysmal rookie years. Bradshaw, Aikman, Marino, you name it. They, and their team, sucked their first year. That said, Haskins really looked awful his first game or two. I think Gruden really did a number on him. Wrecked his confidence. He looked completely incompetent and lost, unable to complete the simplest of passes. That's what makes the turnaround so interesting, especially on a team that was missing so many pieces. Remember, he was playing under rotten circumstances. A play caller who had never called a game. A line that was missing its best guard and tackle. No starting caliber tight end. Three rookie starting wide receivers. Etc. This is hardly a recipe for success. Even so, Haskins by the end provided flashes, and that's what you hope for from a rookie with a team as awful as the Redskins' were.

 

So, Haskins still has the chance to be a great. He still has a chance to be a bum. A lot of it is up to him, but it is fair to remember how bad some of the best qbs of all time were as rookies. 

[Koolblue13]

Even this thread is full of Tua talk. We should just pretend he goes #1. Get the guy who hurts QBs, not the QB whos always hurt.

 

Young is the pick at 2. It's a no brainer.

[50yrSKINSfan]

11 hours ago, Burgold said:

Using RGIII as an example of a QB who got hurt and had a long, healthy, and stellar career? Tua had two very serious season ending injuries. You could be right that it was just bad luck and he will never get hurt again nor will a dislocated hip impact him in the future, but color me way worse than merely skeptical.

 

Just read through Rodgers' wiki page to look at his college career. It reads pretty damn sterling. No mention of lost years or devastating injuries that knocked out half a season plus. What kind of injury/how severe was the injury Rodgers suffered and how many games did he sit?

Sorry for not being more clear. I do not know if any of the guys I mentioned were hurt in college, I meant to say they were all hurt in the NFL and they all lost the rest of their seasons when they got hurt. Matter  of fact, the Rodgers injury, when the defender picked him up and planted him on his shoulder fueled a rule change from the NFL. I would be happy if the Skins drafted CY, I just do not see a Reggie White kind of player there, worthy of the 2nd pick in the complete draft. I would be happy if the Skins drafted Tua. I would be most happiest if the Skins got a haul and got the lb from Clem and 2 other real good players. 

[Burgold]

I'm pro Young for a couple of reasons: Before we got to the season of over-thinking, he was the consensus best player in the draft and I would love the Redskins to get a GREAT player. We have a number of good and very good players, but lack that player that coordinators dread. Now, I don't watch enough college to know if he is Reggie White, Lawrence Taylor, or other historically great defensive monsters, but that's what I'm hearing about when people talk about him.

 

So, my preference right now is a Young or a draft haul of the RGIII or Herschel Walker sort. If Miami wants to give us three number ones and two number twos plus a player (or two) of our choosing, then restock the team and hope you can find a corner, a tackle, and a linebacker, or maybe another wide receiver (though I actually really like McLaurin, Harmon, and Simms and think all can make a jump from their rookie campaigns).

[SkinssRvA]

9 hours ago, Skin'emAlive said:

Super Bowl winning Russel Wilson? HOF quarterback R Wilson? Guy who has almost never been injured, Wilson? That’s where you are placing Tua right now? Come on. 
 

Look, in this league your best bet to be successful is to get a rookie qb with promise, without using premium draft assets like the #2 pick on them. Rather, It’s far more effective ( though difficult) drafting them later and building and elite core around him before his cost skyrockets. 
 

Play it simple, build around our core DL, and help Haskins develop. 

ceiling.  

 

5 hours ago, Burgold said:

A ton. Historically, a large percentage... a huge percentage of Hall of Fame QBs had abysmal rookie years. Bradshaw, Aikman, Marino, you name it. They, and their team, sucked their first year. That said, Haskins really looked awful his first game or two. I think Gruden really did a number on him. Wrecked his confidence. He looked completely incompetent and lost, unable to complete the simplest of passes. That's what makes the turnaround so interesting, especially on a team that was missing so many pieces. Remember, he was playing under rotten circumstances. A play caller who had never called a game. A line that was missing its best guard and tackle. No starting caliber tight end. Three rookie starting wide receivers. Etc. This is hardly a recipe for success. Even so, Haskins by the end provided flashes, and that's what you hope for from a rookie with a team as awful as the Redskins' were.

 

So, Haskins still has the chance to be a great. He still has a chance to be a bum. A lot of it is up to him, but it is fair to remember how bad some of the best qbs of all time were as rookies. 

No doubt the situation was bad for Haskins.  But Gruden didn't really want him if rumors are to be believed.  Marino the only QB you named who, stats wise, made a jump.  Bradshaw and Aikman have pretty pedestrian stats over the course of their careers, although true pretty terrible firs years. but look at their breakdowns over their career.  Obviously the two were known for superbowls and get credit from me where it's due - the NFL has also drastically changed over the past 20 years so I have trouble comparing a current nfl qb to one of old.  

 

The only QB I can think of in modern football who has made the jump we are asking of Haskins is Goff.  Looked really bad his first year after being thrown in, then made a big leap year 2.  Here is a link to some QBs drafted in the first round since from 2000-2016: https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2017/03/04/list-of-qbs-selected-in-first-round-of-nfl-draft-since-2000/98734644/

 

You won't notice a lot of studs left.  And even less if they weren't the top pick, 2004 aside.  

 

I've derailed the thread as another poster mentioned so I'll stop here but happy to continue the conversation elsewhere.