FAREWELL to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

I watched Redzone all afternoon so I didn't catch all of Jones debut, but most of what I did see was him hitting wide open receivers on busted coverage.  All the hype by the broadcast crew and pundits post game was laughable, as if they should get measurements for his yellow jacket.  But not as funny as Eli awkwardly pacing the sidelines with that bitter look on his face.

 

It would definitely be so Redskins for Bruce to take a victory lap after 'his' great draft, only to have Haskins stink and Jones end up being great.  But I'd cool the jets on the Daniel Jones hype at this point.

[Skinsinparadise]

11 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

I'm conflicted now because of how well Keenum has looked in the first 2 weeks.  And I don't think 1 dud game would be enough to yank him to start Haskins.  But I'd rather start Haskins sooner than later to see what we have in him and if he's worth developing for the next coaching staff.  

 

They picked him too high I think for it to be even in consideration to go one and done with him.  So I doubt its even on the table to go QB in this draft and that goes double if Dan was really into Haskins as some purport.    I think it was Finlay who said Dan only went to one draft interview, that was Haskins.

 

From what some has said, Haskins is trying to get comfortable with memorizing call plays-protections, etc where it all starts to flow naturally for him.  I equate it to a degree to mastering a math subject.  You rush me with it and force me to take the exam early, I am not going to do as well then I would if you gave me more time to master it.   It's not like Keenum for example who like he said knows Portuguese and now has to master Spanish but the languages are close enough -- so its not much of an adjustment.  For Haskins some said its a big adjustment.  And Haskins himself suggested he's OK with sitting initially because he wants to kill it when he does get his chance.

 

[DJHJR86]

18 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

They picked him too high I think for it to be even in consideration to go one and done with him.

 

The Cards got rid of Rosen after drafting him 10th overall.  I know this is a pipe dream, but if Snyder cleaned house after this season and gave a new GM full control (🤣 I know), I could see how they would want to pick their own QB.  Granted, Snyder being involved with the pick makes me think none of this is going to happen and he's going to want to hire someone who will work with Haskins.  

[Skinsinparadise]

1 minute ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

The Cards got rid of Rosen after drafting him 10th overall.  I know this is a pipe dream, but if Snyder cleaned house after this season and gave a new GM full control (🤣 I know), I could see how they would want to pick their own QB.  Granted, Snyder being involved with the pick makes me think none of this is going to happen and he's going to want to hire someone who will work with Haskins.  

 

I'd presume even if he brought in a new GM, he'd want that GM to already have bought into Haskins.  Similar to Jay-RG3 at the time.  

 

[redskinss]

Manuskys defense is on pace to be historically lousy and Gruden wont fire him.

 

As long as keenum keeps throwing touchdown passes instead of interceptions there's no chance in haskins seeing the field and I kinda agree with that honestly.

 

I don't like the message it sends benching a guy on pace for 5 thousand yards and 40 touchdowns. 

 

 

 

[Going Commando]

2 hours ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

What are the chances that Jones is legit, that yesterday's performance will be commonplace for him?  And what are the chances that Haskins busts?  It'd be the most Redskins thing ever, that a dolt like the Giants GM turns out to be a genius while we're still stuck here with Bruce.  

 

Jones got killed in the draft thread, and I think most in the draftnik community didn't think much of him.  Daniel Jeremiah is one of the only ones that I like that seemed to think highly of him.  But I felt that people were too low on him and draftniks are typically bad with quarterbacks and tend to focus on the wrong things.  I had him as a fringe first rounder, more likely a second rounder, so I felt he was a reach at 6.  Particularly over Haskins and Drew Lock, who I graded higher.  Much higher in Haskins's case.  But a reach at quarterback is not a big deal at all, as a quarterback is basically a yes or no proposition for a team, rather than a matter of ranking.

 

400 yard 4 TD performances are not going to be commonplace for him, but it doesn't shock me that he was good and I've thought all along that he was going to be good for the Giants and that they had a great draft overall.  He's a great fit for that organization.  A lot of Duke's failures in the passing game were due to just god awful protection and receiver play.  He was the best player on his team by a country mile, he was used to carrying them and not complaining.  He was getting NFL-style coaching.  He is tough as Hell and was used to taking a beating and getting back up and trying again.  He showed good accuracy and superior touch as a thrower.  And he is an excellent athlete with legit open field speed and a rumbling style of running that is hard to bring down.  He was very good in the Senior bowl and he was dominant in his bowl game.  I thought his ceiling would be something like Eli's except that he's a much better athlete and runner.  Or a much bigger and stronger Alex Smith.  That's a good starting NFL QB.

 

But I definitely don't think he's better than Haskins.  Haskins is a blue chip prospect with Pro-bowl caliber potential.  He's stronger and a better thrower in almost every respect and he's more instinctive.  And the gap in athleticism isn't as huge as you'd think based on the way they each ran in college.  He was far better than Jones was last year, and if Gettleman had been savvier with his picks, he would have maneuvered into a better range to take Jones and add picks in the process.

[Skinsinparadise]

32 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Jones got killed in the draft thread...I had him as a fringe first rounder, more likely a second rounder, so I felt he was a reach at 6.  Particularly over Haskins and Drew Lock, who I graded higher.  Much higher in Haskins's case.  But a reach at quarterback is not a big deal at all, as a quarterback is basically a yes or no proposition for a team, rather than a matter of ranking.

 

 

I killed him, a lot of that was about his odd personality (or that's how it came off to me and some others) but my conclusion ironically wasn't that different than yours.  a 2nd rounder sounded fine to me.  I really didn't see much of a difference between him and Finley back then.  Both to me high floor and low ceiling.  Both relatively experienced and pro ready.  Both thrive with short passes and have sneaky athleticism.  Jones with a stronger arm though but I don't think his arm is that strong. 

 

I didn't mind the idea of taking Daniel later in the draft but not with the first round pick.  I recall i vacillated some on that point but I mostly landed there.  I recall even saying I don't think he will be a bust but I also don't see anything special there.

 

32 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

But I definitely don't think he's better than Haskins.  Haskins is a blue chip prospect with Pro-bowl caliber potential.  He's stronger and a better thrower in almost every respect and he's more instinctive.  And the gap in athleticism isn't as huge as you'd think based on the way they each ran in college.  He was far better than Jones was last year, and if Gettleman had been savvier with his picks, he would have maneuvered into a better range to take Jones and add picks in the process.

 

I had some questions about Haskins but liked him over Jones.  Based purely on 40 times, Jones was easily faster than Haskins.  Having said that, Haskins looked quicker than how he looked to me in college.  When I saw him in camp i mentioned the QB keeps and he looked faster when he simply took off than anything I expected.  

 

 

Tampa's defense looked atrocious to me.  Jones did the quick passing game well (just like in college) and was also exposed from my perspective on some of his weaknesses (just like those from college.) But he has looked better than I expected.  The thing is with rookie QBs, people go nuts (positive or negative) via small sample sizes even though its unwarranted.    That's why I get Haskins' perspective of when he starts he wants to kill it so he doesn't mind waiting.  People are going to overreact to early starts so I'd like Haskins to be ready and achieve one of those hyped performances no need to rush it. 

 

 

 

[Llevron]

Is it ok with everyone that Literally the only two reasons I dont like Daniel Jones as a QB and as a person are because hes 1) a Giant and 2) I plan to hate on every QB that came out the same year Haskins did? 

 

I feel like thats fair. 

[NoCalMike]

I was going to start a new thread but since the Haskins thread is still pretty active I will post the question in here:

 

What is your "Haskins should be starting" red line?

 

I think people are watching Keenum perform decently and feeling that is justification enough (for now) to keep Haskins on the bench, however at what point does it become apparent that overall this team's ceiling, even with Keenum not playing bad is 6ish wins, and that is not a good reason to keep Haskins from getting in there and mixing it up?

 

I wouldn't expect any additional wins because of Haskins, perhaps even 1-2 more losses, but unless Gruden just thinks Haskins is not capable yet of running enough plays for a game, then I don't see why you would wait much longer to make the switch, unless the team at least gets to .500 in a hurry.

[desertbeagle85]

1 hour ago, redskinss said:

Manuskys defense is on pace to be historically lousy and Gruden wont fire him.

 

As long as keenum keeps throwing touchdown passes instead of interceptions there's no chance in haskins seeing the field and I kinda agree with that honestly.

 

I don't like the message it sends benching a guy on pace for 5 thousand yards and 40 touchdowns. 

 

 

 

 

Yeah the difference between the Giants and the Redskins is that the Giants QB play was a big reason why they weren't winning. Can't blame Case for not having a running game or a defense to speak of. 

 

 

[Skin'emAlive]

I dunno why you all are still so short sighted. Let Daniel Jones have his day. Whatever. NY used a #6 overall on a Josh Allen-lite. I could care less that he beat a Tampa team without its best linebacker. Guarantee that if Devin White is playing that game, they win. Hell, Tampa should have won but missed a chip shot. 

 

We have one of the hardest first 5 games in the league. If we come out of it 2-3, that would be a miracle. Case is playing well. The OL is passblocking well. We are one of two teams without a turnover. I think we steal one against Chicago tonight, and flay the Giants next week. 2-3 aint bad. Let Haskins learn everything without taking the hits in a season we arent expected to do much. There is no pressure to put him in right now. Get him some reps in the second half of the season, trade Trent for draft capital, OL and TE in the draft, replace Manusky with Rex Ryan and 2020 we take the division. I feel pretty confident in that.  

[“Misdirection”]

Once the league has enough tape on Daniel Jones he'll fall back to earth like every other rookie QB ever and then we can actually see how good he is by how he responds. Clearly had a good debut, but let's pump the breaks. 

Keenum hasn't given us a reason to bench him yet, can't risk losing the locker room this early to make the switch. Patience.

[Going Commando]

51 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I killed him, a lot of that was about his odd personality (or that's how it came off to me and some others) but my conclusion ironically wasn't that different than yours.  a 2nd rounder sounded fine to me.  I really didn't see much of a difference between him and Finley back then.  Both to me high floor and low ceiling.  Both relatively experienced and pro ready.  Both thrive with short passes and have sneaky athleticism.  Jones with a stronger arm though but I don't think his arm is that strong. 

 

I didn't mind the idea of taking Daniel later in the draft but not with the first round pick.  I recall i vacillated some on that point but I mostly landed there.  I recall even saying I don't think he will be a bust but I also don't see anything special there. 

 

I think we were too negative on Jones in the thread, and too negative on the quarterbacks from that class in general.  Draftniks have a very strong tendency to think the grass is always greener in the next class down the road when it comes to quarterbacks.  But the truth is that there are at least a couple of good QB prospects in almost every class, and the unavailable stud underclassmen QBs that draftniks tend to pine over have not been fully evaluated and we're usually way too high on them in the initial projections.  There actually isn't a huge difference in ability level between most of these stud NFL-track college QBs, and the big differences in performance level are often heavily determined by situational factors outside of the player's control.

 

In Jones's case, he went from a bad situation to a pretty good one and it's made a huge difference for his level of performance.

 

When we give a player something like a second round grade, we're baking into that grade a guess about how the rest of the league values the player.  QB is kind of funny because the markets are so binary and limited.  Every QB is basically a yes/no proposition for a team, and in most years, most teams will have a no on virtually every first or second round caliber QB.  So let's say you've got a yes on a QB that most teams are grading in the 20-50 range.  But say you are pretty sure that there are four other teams out there that also have him as a yes, and they each pick in the top ten and teens.  You know you desperately need to get a QB for your coach, and you really like the way this kid fits.  If you're a brilliant drafter, then you have your finger on the pulse of the league too, and you can make the moves to get into the natural range for your guy and utilize the value of your picks.  But you also have to be OK with not landing your guy, which is not a luxury that most GMs have.  So I can understand why Gettleman just went ahead and pulled the trigger on Jones at 6.  Yeah it's a pretty big reach, and year he probably could have maneuvered around and gotten Jones late in the first and come away with a blue chip defender like Josh Allen.  But reaching at QB is not a big sin because the absolute worst thing you can do is to never get one.

 

My bigger complaint is that he graded Jones higher than Haskins and Lock, when in my opinion Lock was meaningfully better and Haskins was way better.  But a lot of QB evaluation comes down to fit rather than being a judgement about ability-level in a vacuum, and if you determine that a kid is a great fit for your organization, then you can stomach picking him over a greater individual talent.  That can come back to haunt you though.  Chicago is going to learn that soon.

[dballer]

13 minutes ago, LLandryistheshiz said:

Once the league has enough tape on Daniel Jones he'll fall back to earth like every other rookie QB ever and then we can actually see how good he is by how he responds. Clearly had a good debut, but let's pump the breaks. 

Keenum hasn't given us a reason to bench him yet, can't risk losing the locker room this early to make the switch. Patience.

 

Well, losses are a reason. No matter how well it seems Keenum is playing. It is fairly obvious he has left some plays out there, plays that could have turned the tide of games. If the L's keep coming, it won't matter how well it seems he is playing. 

[Llevron]

35 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

I was going to start a new thread but since the Haskins thread is still pretty active I will post the question in here:

 

What is your "Haskins should be starting" red line?

 

If the playoffs are still in consideration - Haskins has to be the best QB to take the field. That includes protecting himself using the correct protections/ calls. 

 

If the season is mathematically out of consideration - I have no interest in wasting time. As long as he can, again, protect himself, then lets go for it. Dont have the best the best guy now since he is hopefully our future at the position. But only if he can protect himself. Gonna be honest, watching RG3 ruin his talent by not being able to even practice is what probably drives that mindset. I dont want that to happen to Haskins. 

[kingdaddy]

When I watch the Chiefs and what they've done with and for Mahomes I just dream of how Haskins and our offense could look. Andy Reid has surrounded Mahomes with speed and he looks downfield because he has the arm and the pocket presence to take deep shots. I hope this is what we are doing with Haskins. With McClauren, PRich, Steve Sims, Harmon, Davis and Quinn we have some good young options to support Dwayne's growth. Throw in the two backs and really all we need to do is build the line and sign/draft a TE. Do these things in free agency and the draft and next year should be really exciting to see provided DH is the real deal. 

[Llevron]

1 minute ago, kingdaddy said:

When I watch the Chiefs and what they've done with and for Mahomes I just dream of how Haskins and our offense could look. Andy Reid has surrounded Mahomes with speed and he looks downfield because he has the arm and the pocket presence to take deep shots. I hope this is what we are doing with Haskins. With McClauren, PRich, Steve Sims, Harmon, Davis and Quinn we have some good young options to support Dwayne's growth. Throw in the two backs and really all we need to do is build the line and sign/draft a TE. Do these things in free agency and the draft and next year should be really exciting to see provided DH is the real deal. 

 

This argument is also why I want to keep Gruden. Cause if we dont think plan is dead. 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

I remember players getting pissed off when Grossmn was benched, and not because they thought Beck sucked...it was because players thought he was giving the team a legit chance to win, evern if they didn't. Players aren't usually eager to use up a year of their careers and wear and tear on their bodies just to "see how a guty does."

 

I'd only start Haskins if:

 

1. We're 0-7

2. Keenum starts falling off a cliff

3. Haskins shows significant grasp of the offense in meetings and practice and seems ready

[kingdaddy]

6 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

This argument is also why I want to keep Gruden. Cause if we dont think plan is dead. 

Maybe not, not if they hire the O'Connell kid.....? Or steal someone from KC who has been involved with developing that offense and Mahomes. In fact, this would be top priority.

[London Kev]

Haskins should only start once he's shown that he's the best QB on the team. This should go for every player at every position, no matter where they were drafted.

 

It would send out a bad message to the rest of the team, that even if you bust your butt in practise and show that you are the best at your position, you still might not start because the team wants to showcase their shiny new toy.

 

I'm all for him getting some garbage time reps, but he needs to earn the starting gig.

[wit33]

 

16 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

When I watch the Chiefs and what they've done with and for Mahomes I just dream of how Haskins and our offense could look. Andy Reid has surrounded Mahomes with speed and he looks downfield because he has the arm and the pocket presence to take deep shots. I hope this is what we are doing with Haskins. With McClauren, PRich, Steve Sims, Harmon, Davis and Quinn we have some good young options to support Dwayne's growth. Throw in the two backs and really all we need to do is build the line and sign/draft a TE. Do these things in free agency and the draft and next year should be really exciting to see provided DH is the real deal. 

 

Im with you 100%. I’m sure most fans around the league watch the chiefs and think the same. I do see similarities in Mahomes and Haskins (very small sample and pre season for Haskins) with relentlessly attacking defenses down the field with elite arm strength and ability to remain “big” in the pocket through using subtle movements. I was shocked to see Haskins move to his left and even spin/rotate his shoulders (Romo was so great at this) to create extra time. Both dudes are built like TEs as well. 

 

Andy Reid is a difference maker at the coaching position and in recent years has taken his offense to the next level with attacking down field more. 

[RandyHolt]

15 minutes ago, London Kev said:

Haskins should only start once he's shown that he's the best QB on the team. This should go for every player at every position, no matter where they were drafted.

 

It would send out a bad message to the rest of the team, that even if you bust your butt in practise and show that you are the best at your position, you still might not start because the team wants to showcase their shiny new toy.

 

I'm all for him getting some garbage time reps, but he needs to earn the starting gig.

 

Good post, with one pushback.

 

How many more vet QBs will we be bringing in that he has outperform with no hitting in camp?  A guy with only one year of college may never beat out a 7 year vet, at least not for a year or 2 once he gains the upperhand with better familiarity with the playbook. Assuming our coaching staff aka the playbook, stays intact (ha!)

 

At some point, I feel like you kinda have to play a guy you draft 15 OA, typically late in the year once the players have all checked out.  Wrong messages will fall on deaf ears, at that point.

[Skin'emAlive]

30 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

When I watch the Chiefs and what they've done with and for Mahomes I just dream of how Haskins and our offense could look. Andy Reid has surrounded Mahomes with speed and he looks downfield because he has the arm and the pocket presence to take deep shots. I hope this is what we are doing with Haskins. With McClauren, PRich, Steve Sims, Harmon, Davis and Quinn we have some good young options to support Dwayne's growth. Throw in the two backs and really all we need to do is build the line and sign/draft a TE. Do these things in free agency and the draft and next year should be really exciting to see provided DH is the real deal. 

 

It was obvious the plan was to get Alex to run this offense for about 2 years, with an emphasis on limiting turnovers. By the end of this year we would start whomever we drafted at qb, leaving 2 years left on Alex's contract to support as primary backup. Its unfortunate that Smith, Reed, and Guice got injured, but its clear that we are sticking to the plan. No reason to throw Haskins into the gauntlet until atleast after NE comes to town. Case has played well all things considered. The defensive game plan needs some serious improvement. Our run game is going to be garbage until we upgrade the line with some maulers. 

[volsmet]

I liked Jones more than Haskins... & I didn’t particularly care for Jones.

 

On 1/31/2019 at 1:24 PM, volsmet said:

None of this will make anyone love Jones, but these are impressive traits displayed by a college QB, I don’t know if he’s got a round 1 arm, but he is incredibly impressive when pressured, he’s got that Wentz trait, but he’s not as athletic & certainly doesn’t have the Wentz arm.

 

These are the things people who obsess over QBs will believe makes Jones something more than the sum of his parts, he looks exactly like Peyton in a colts uniform, but he obviously ain’t Peyton, how good of an impersonator is he, that’s really insignificant, though I’m sure it’s appealing for scouts, obviously what Peyton had was largely pre-snap, and you can’t mimic what Peyton could diagnose. Nevertheless, Jones is, at minimum, a dedicated, tough, cerebral, calm, bright, prospect who learned from a guy who is as well respected as any.

 

How he deals with pressure is next level, but only one of these throws is down the field, we will have to see if he can make teams respect the sidelines, if not, he’s useless. You don’t need to throw deep outs, but you need the threat or the field gets tight.

 

 

Turns out, he actually is more athletic than Carson, 4.77, Wentz.

 

[HardcoreZorn]

5 minutes ago, wit33 said:

 

 

Im with you 100%. I’m sure most fans around the league watch the chiefs and think the same. I do see similarities in Mahomes and Haskins (very small sample and pre season for Haskins) with relentlessly attacking defenses down the field with elite arm strength and ability to remain “big” in the pocket through using subtle movements. I was shocked to see Haskins move to his left and even spin/rotate his shoulders (Romo was so great at this) to create extra time. Both dudes are built like TEs as well. 

 

Andy Reid is a difference maker at the coaching position and in recent years has taken his offense to the next level with attacking down field more. 

 

This is one reason I am able to still remain excited about the direction of the team. I believe Riddick when he says that we’ve never had anything like HIM at the position in the building and I’m really impressed and quite honestly surprised we are taking a patient mature approach to developing him. But we’ve never had someone with his arm talent and seemingly willful dedication to master his craft (picking teams apart from the pocket). The receiving core looks exciting as well, a lot of speed. Can’t belive the defense has looked this dreadful, it’s honestly appalling with the talent on that side. So disappointing.