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Daily Beast: Jeffrey Epstein Arrested For Sex Trafficking of Minors. Ghislaine Maxwell guilty of sex trafficking a minor for Jeffrey Epstein and four other charges

Cooked Crack

By Cooked Crack
in The Tailgate

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Burgold

Burgold

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, nonniey said:

Well that is certainly not unique to Trump's base and it is nothing new. Can you point out a recent Presidential election where the supporters of either candidate cared about damaging facts on their candidate?

I think we can name 20 people who have been drummed out of office for scandal  on the Democratic side in recent years. Presidential is harder because frankly there aren't many people on Earth who are as lousy a human being as Trump. Moreover,  i can't think of a Democratic Presidential candidate that has been credibly accused of fraud, rape, pedophilia, treason, etc. So, there is no apple to compare to your apple, but to kinda play your game... Al Franken was run out of office for an indelicate photograph that suggested he might touch a woman. Anthony Weiner was run out of office because he lived up to his name. Going back a bit, Gary Hart lost any chance of ever serving in office once they found out he had an affair.


Meanwhile, Roy Moore was the Republican's choice for Senator. Trump is the Republican's choice for President. Dennis Hasstert was a serial child molester and the Republicans raised him to Speaker. Similarly, Gingrich was having endless affairs before during and after his Speakership and he is still a powerbroker in the party.

 

One side hold its own accountable. One doesn't.

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Spaceman Spiff

Spaceman Spiff

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Burgold said:

I think we can name 20 people who have been drummed out of office for scandal  on the Democratic side in recent years. Presidential is harder because frankly there aren't many people on Earth who are as lousy a human being as Trump. Moreover,  i can't think of a Democratic Presidential candidate that has been credibly accused of fraud, rape, pedophilia, treason, etc. So, there is no apple to compare to your apple, but to kinda play your game... Al Franken was run out of office for an indelicate photograph that suggested he might touch a woman. Anthony Weiner was run out of office because he lived up to his name. Going back a bit, Gary Hart lost any chance of ever serving in office once they found out he had an affair.


Meanwhile, Roy Moore was the Republican's choice for Senator. Trump is the Republican's choice for President. Dennis Hasstert was a serial child molester and the Republicans raised him to Speaker. Similarly, Gingrich was having endless affairs before during and after his Speakership and he is still a powerbroker in the party.

 

One side hold its own accountable. One doesn't.

 

Gavin Newsom had an affair, IIRC with a close aides wife and has ascended to being Governor of California.  He's gone from Mayor of SF to Govenor.  Not quite a powerbroker in the party on a Gingrich level I'd say but he's got time on his side to keep climbing.  Weiner resigned after his first sexting scandal but then was running for Mayor of NYC when the second round broke.  That doesn't sound like "being held accountable."  

 

On the House of Representatives level for the Republicans, Joe Barton didn't seek re-election.  Blake Farenthold resigned.  Trent Franks resigned.  Pat Meehan resigned.  Timothy Murphy resigned.  

 

To be fair on the D side, Conyers resigned, so did Eric Massa.  I've not heard of Ruben Kihuen but he didn't seek re-election either.  Here's a good one, Alaska state representative Dean Westlake apologized for inappropriate sexual behavior towards staffers.  But then he resigned before a story about impregnating a 16 year old girl in 1988 could be published.

 

You don't have to look very far to see what happened in 2017-2018 with members of each party and a quick summary of the outcome when it comes to political sexual scandals:   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017–18_United_States_political_sexual_scandals

 

If we're going to go tit for tat at which side is worse, sure the Republicans don't look too good with Trump, Roy Moore, and others.  After reading part of this thread, I'm reminded of the Seinfeld bit where he talks about "rooting for laundry."  That's definitely an over-simplistic view of what's going on here but I believe there's a bit of truth to it.  People on each side want to forever dig their heels in and play the morally upright game and think that their side is the virtuous one.  It's not rocket science, people want to feel better about the people that they support while dumping on the other side.  IMO, it's not too different than rooting for the Redskins and hating the Cowboys.  R's and D's.  Thinking the 3-12 Redskins have a shot in the season finale against a 9-6 Cowboys team gunning for a playoff spot is akin to a Republican thinking that his side is scandal free and the Democrats are always worse.  

 

I agreed with @TheGreatBuzz's post earlier in regards to losing faith in Government.  But after looking at that link of all the sex scandals, maybe I shouldn't lose faith in Government itself but instead lose faith in the pieces of **** we have in public office.  I think that's a more fair take.  Scroll down to what's going on at the state level, that's even more troubling.  29 states (over half the states for you English majors) had sexual harassment scandals from public leaders at the state level and we're worried about the amount of R's vs. D's so we can make ourselves feel better for the side we root for?  

 

I guess if people like to view who's side is worse as a game of political sport when it comes to scandals, I get it to a degree.  IMO, I find it like being excited that you got a C on the math test because the kid next to you got a D.  

 

 

Edited by Spaceman Spiff
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Burgold

Burgold

Posted
Posted

I can dig that, Spiff and I can be guilty of painting with two broad a brush... though my memory keeps remembering Republicans that were not asked to resign especially under Ryan regardless of scandal.  Anywho, a random thought occurred to me. When people used to ask me about Bill Clinton I used to answer

 

"Bad person. Good President" 

 

And I reconciled myself to that. I wonder if the problem today is that we are seeing so many bad people/bad politicians with corrupt intentions at heart. It's just bad all the way around and the bluntness of it (like the tax bill or the tear down of environmental protections, etc.) are just impossible to dismiss. These aren't being done for the good of the country. It's almost impossible to make an argument to that regard. These actions are being done for the pockets of a select few and to hell with the rest of us.

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Sacks 'n' Stuff

Sacks 'n' Stuff

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, nonniey said:

Well that is certainly not unique to Trump's base and it is nothing new. Can you point out a recent Presidential election where the supporters of either candidate cared about damaging facts on their candidate?

Hillary lost her huge lead when James Comey announced that they had new evidence related to the email investigation that ended up being nothing.

 

Trump, running as a Republican, insulted John McCain by saying POWs aren’t heroes and that he likes soldiers who don’t get caught. His poll numbers went up.

 

There is no frame of reference. I can not compare this to anything else.

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Chachie

Chachie

Posted
Posted

One possible outcome from all this (if, in fact, high level players from both "sides" of the political spectrum are damaged) would be that republican citizens and democrat citizens would be able to drop their mutual notion that their reps are squeaky clean while the others' are dirty. We all subliminally know that absolute power corrupts absolutely but we suspend our disbelief when in combat with one another. At the expense of a lot of teenagers, we could possibly find a unifying tragedy to wake us all up.

 

However, I'm in agreement with those that suspect nothing will ultimately change about the rich and powerful. We've seen this movie too many times before. 

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Chachie

Chachie

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Dan T. said:

Alex Acosta just resigned as Labor Secretary due to Epstein fallout.

 

 

I can't remember who tweeted this on Tuesday but somebody said, "Gone by Friday." I'm sure Trump privately "recommended" the resignation.

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Spaceman Spiff

Spaceman Spiff

Posted
Posted
19 minutes ago, The Evil Genius said:

 

Probably someone like Seb Gorka or another useless right-wing asshat.

 

I meant in regards to how the whole Epstein thing is going to play out, what it means for the people involved and who surround Epstein.   But yes, you're probably correct.  

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nonniey

nonniey

Posted
Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Burgold said:

I think we can name 20 people who have been drummed out of office for scandal  on the Democratic side in recent years. Presidential is harder because frankly there aren't many people on Earth who are as lousy a human being as Trump. Moreover,  i can't think of a Democratic Presidential candidate that has been credibly accused of fraud, rape, pedophilia, treason, etc. So, there is no apple to compare to your apple, but to kinda play your game... Al Franken was run out of office for an indelicate photograph that suggested he might touch a woman. Anthony Weiner was run out of office because he lived up to his name. Going back a bit, Gary Hart lost any chance of ever serving in office once they found out he had an affair.


Meanwhile, Roy Moore was the Republican's choice for Senator. Trump is the Republican's choice for President. Dennis Hasstert was a serial child molester and the Republicans raised him to Speaker. Similarly, Gingrich was having endless affairs before during and after his Speakership and he is still a powerbroker in the party.

 

One side hold its own accountable. One doesn't.

Come on talk about moving goal posts. You tore them down here and rebuilt them in a different stadium. I thought Frank was a sitting Senator  when he was drummed out of the Senate (unjustifiably imo) didn't realize he was a candidate and just lost the election. Concede Hart is a good example of voters holding him to account but then so is Moore. But you should not be forgetting Kennedy or Clinton (especially Kennedy).

Edited by nonniey
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TheGreatBuzz

TheGreatBuzz

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

I agreed with @TheGreatBuzz's post earlier in regards to losing faith in Government.  But after looking at that link of all the sex scandals, maybe I shouldn't lose faith in Government itself but instead lose faith in the pieces of **** we have in public office.  I think that's a more fair take

I can see that.  But if the government has allowed itself to become a **** show, shouldn't you lose faith in the government itself?

 

The closer we look, the more we realize that our system of government is set up to work great.......if the people in it had morals and honest intentions.  But we see what happens when they don't.

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Chachie

Chachie

Posted
Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

I can see that.  But if the government has allowed itself to become a **** show, shouldn't you lose faith in the government itself?

 

The closer we look, the more we realize that our system of government is set up to work great.......if the people in it had morals and honest intentions.  But we see what happens when they don't.

 

 

Govt is made up of people. People are corruptible. All of us. The circumstance dictates shady compromise, access to "the lifestyle" etc. I can't sit here and solemnly vow I'd be a perfect politician. I suppose they're out there but the longer one swims in that lake, the more likely they emerge with pond scum. 

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Spaceman Spiff

Spaceman Spiff

Posted
Posted
56 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

I can see that.  But if the government has allowed itself to become a **** show, shouldn't you lose faith in the government itself?

 

The closer we look, the more we realize that our system of government is set up to work great.......if the people in it had morals and honest intentions.  But we see what happens when they don't.

 

Well, we're the ones voting them in.  

 

I'm a big believer in term limits.  I think that might possibly go a long way in keeping scum away from getting into politics.  When you think of career politicians who's singular goal is to keep getting re-elected every few years, it seems like an inherently scummy profession.  It opens up people to a greater possibility of being corrupted.  And is anyone shocked at some of their behavior?  These are people who will do/say anything to get a vote in order to keep their jobs.  Of course they're not going to have respect for a staffer and try to grab her ass.  It's an inherently narcissistic, scummy career that if you do it right, you can keep getting re-elected, make a lot of money and have people kissing your ass all day.  It is a career path for opportunists.  A two term limit might curb that.  

 

I don't believe government attracts the best and brightest anymore.  Maybe it never did and all of a sudden in the media/internet age we're seeing how terrible these people really are for the first time.  But, IMO, there's very little upside to step out of the private sector and run for office.  What, so every tweet you ever sent out can get dissected?  So all of your yearbooks ever can be dug up?  So someone you haven't seen since college 20 years ago said you tried to drunkenly tried to hit on her at a frat party and said something rude?  It seems to be an incredible headache.  And someone that really doesn't have many skeletons in their closet who could actually be a good public servant might not want to have their name dragged through the dirt in the court of public opinion because the juice isn't worth the squeeze.  I believe that could be a reason why we don't see better people in office...because they see the ****show that it is and don't want to be a part of it.

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