Riggo-toni

Take the full cap hit for Smith in 2019

When should we take the cap hit for the Alex Smith fiasco  

126 members have voted

  1. 1. When do we take the hit

    • All 40 million in 2019, even though it will mean gutting the roster
      84
    • Post June 2018, splitting losses between 2019 and 2020
      18
    • Keep on roster for 2019 and absorb salary hit, then cut post June 2019 to split remaining dead cap space between 2020 and 2021
      24


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accepting gutting the roster means, you either think the FO is competent enough to rebuild it or you're cool with being bad over average

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27 minutes ago, carex said:

accepting gutting the roster means, you either think the FO is competent enough to rebuild it or you're cool with being bad over average

Well if we're going to have an incompetent FO may as well have them shoot at improving the team from 5 yards out instead of 50. 

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Just now, nonniey said:

Well if we're going to have an incompetent FO may as well have them shoot at improving the team from 5 yards out instead of 50. 

 

extra cap space means nothing, getting rid of decent players for savings pushes you back

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3 hours ago, method man said:

I've been advocating for this as well. The other thing to think about is that, given the depth of the 2020 QB class, it would pay off here to suck as much as possible. 

I think this sounds like the right way to do it.  Tear it all down, bottom out and get a great QB.

 

I was wondering, should we go EXTREME with the tear down?  I was doing some research on Wikipedia and over the draft website.  First, here are our comp picks, projected:

WAS 3 Kirk Cousins $28,000,000
WAS 5 Trent Murphy $7,400,000
WAS 6 Ryan Grant $5,000,000

and looking at Wikipedia, we have these picks as well:

1
2
3
5
7

 

That means we are looking at a nice haul for the upcomping draft

1

2

3

3 (Comp)

5

5 (Comp)

6 (Comp)

7

 

Here is what I am thinking... Trade our picks.   Trade all of our picks, if possible, for future picks.  Often a team will give up a better future pick for a current pick.  Lets say someone wanted our 5th rounder?  Its yours for a fourth!  Want our first rounder?  Great, we'll take your first and 2nd\third next year.  This goes for comp picks.  you can trade them now, lets take advantage of that rule.

 

 

Why do this?  For one, we need to bottom out.  No point risking new young talent during this.  Lets see what we have, shed the dead weight next year (for more comp picks) and determine who should stay for depth.  Two, we are in a world of hurt with the cap hit.  Pushing back the draft picks will save us money now AND make the future cap much more manageable.  And the draft is a shotgun approach.  There are busts, but the more picks you make, the more likely you'll hit on a gem.

 

So if Bruce can pull off a miracle and trade EVERY SINGLE PICK, this means our 2020 draft could look something like:

1

1  (Traded form 2019 - 1+3)

2  

2 (Traded form 2019 - 3rd)

2 (Traded form 2019 - 3rd COMP)

2 (Traded form 2019 - 2+5)

3

3  (Traded form 2019 - 1+3)

4

4  (Traded form 2019 - 5th)

4  (Traded form 2019 - 5th COMP)

5

5  (Traded form 2019 - 6th)

5  (Traded form 2019 - 6th COMP)

5  (Traded form 2019 - 2+5)

6

6 (Traded form 2019 - 7th)

7

 

 

 

I went conservative.  I made it so a we only got a 1st and third for our 2019 first and a 2nd and 5th for our 2019 2nd.  In reality the haul could be even greater.  But even if we pull this off at conservative evidence, can you imagine what a killer young corps we can field with all of those 2020 picks.  Maybe even sell a few of our pieces that we have now but have a contract expiring in 2020 or later.  For example: We are going to cut Brown anyway, so lets take a 6th for him.  Then in a year or two, we will have a ton of cap space, and get the few extra pieces we need for a champiohship run!!!

 

Edit: Oh, and if we don't like a player in a round in 2020, sell the pick for a better 2021 picks!!!  We can push more picks into the future and own not one but several drafts.

Edited by hatchetwound
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Those type of insurance policies would generally pay off in the future. We can't cut him and immediately say he can't play, give us our 12 mil. It just doesn't work that way. So you have to account for it if you're cutting him now.

 

The upside to cutting him now is that the 2020 salary would the only be guaranteed if he can't come back and play for somebody then. If he works his way back and gets onto a roster for 2020, then the Redskins wouldn't be on the hook for it, because the salary only was guaranteed if he was too hurt to play. If he is too hurt to play, then obviously we would recoup the 12 mil insurance policy.

Edited by Rufus T Firefly

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If we brought in a new FO and accepted to starting fresh then sure, but we aren't so there is no way we take the full hit on Smith and gut the roster. The Snyder era has never embraced a true rebuild.

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1 hour ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

We can't cut him and immediately say he can't play, gives us our 12 mil. It just doesn't work that way. So you have to account for it if you're cutting him now.

 

I thought we can recoup when he fails his physical at the beginning of the football year.

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3 hours ago, hatchetwound said:

I think this sounds like the right way to do it.  Tear it all down, bottom out and get a great QB.

 

I was wondering, should we go EXTREME with the tear down?  I was doing some research on Wikipedia and over the draft website.  First, here are our comp picks, projected:

WAS 3 Kirk Cousins $28,000,000
WAS 5 Trent Murphy $7,400,000
WAS 6 Ryan Grant $5,000,000

and looking at Wikipedia, we have these picks as well:

1
2
3
5
7

 

That means we are looking at a nice haul for the upcomping draft

1

2

3

3 (Comp)

5

5 (Comp)

6 (Comp)

7

 

Here is what I am thinking... Trade our picks.   Trade all of our picks, if possible, for future picks.  Often a team will give up a better future pick for a current pick.  Lets say someone wanted our 5th rounder?  Its yours for a fourth!  Want our first rounder?  Great, we'll take your first and 2nd\third next year.  This goes for comp picks.  you can trade them now, lets take advantage of that rule.

 

 

Why do this?  For one, we need to bottom out.  No point risking new young talent during this.  Lets see what we have, shed the dead weight next year (for more comp picks) and determine who should stay for depth.  Two, we are in a world of hurt with the cap hit.  Pushing back the draft picks will save us money now AND make the future cap much more manageable.  And the draft is a shotgun approach.  There are busts, but the more picks you make, the more likely you'll hit on a gem.

 

So if Bruce can pull off a miracle and trade EVERY SINGLE PICK, this means our 2020 draft could look something like:

1

1  (Traded form 2019 - 1+3)

2  

2 (Traded form 2019 - 3rd)

2 (Traded form 2019 - 3rd COMP)

2 (Traded form 2019 - 2+5)

3

3  (Traded form 2019 - 1+3)

4

4  (Traded form 2019 - 5th)

4  (Traded form 2019 - 5th COMP)

5

5  (Traded form 2019 - 6th)

5  (Traded form 2019 - 6th COMP)

5  (Traded form 2019 - 2+5)

6

6 (Traded form 2019 - 7th)

7

 

 

 

I went conservative.  I made it so a we only got a 1st and third for our 2019 first and a 2nd and 5th for our 2019 2nd.  In reality the haul could be even greater.  But even if we pull this off at conservative evidence, can you imagine what a killer young corps we can field with all of those 2020 picks.  Maybe even sell a few of our pieces that we have now but have a contract expiring in 2020 or later.  For example: We are going to cut Brown anyway, so lets take a 6th for him.  Then in a year or two, we will have a ton of cap space, and get the few extra pieces we need for a champiohship run!!!

 

Edit: Oh, and if we don't like a player in a round in 2020, sell the pick for a better 2021 picks!!!  We can push more picks into the future and own not one but several drafts.

 

God, yes.  This is what I'd do.  It'd be my goal to get so many picks for 2020 and 2021. 

 

I posted it last week, but the 30 for 30 short about Jimmy Johnson and what he did with the Herschel Walker trade was unbelievable.  How he built that team was simply amazing.  He just got as many picks as he could.

 

The goal should be to constantly to have one of the youngest, most affordable rosters in the league.  When you get a franchise QB or defensive end, lock em up but other than that it's a continual cycle of trading veterans for picks and trading picks for more picks.

 

In order to achieve that goal, the goal should be to have as many draft picks as possible.  Every year, the Redskins should have the most draft picks out of everyone.

 

 

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What if Dan and Alex made a deal to rip apart the football contract so that the Redskins owe nothing. Have Dan pay Alex what we owe him outside of football. A multi million dollar gift out of the goodness of Dan's heart???? LOL

 

-But seriously, is something like that even possible?

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Only way to eat this is to have a quality rookie QB on the roster and playing in his stead. I think there's a good chance this happens, but I'm an optimist. Shouldn't be , but I am

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10 hours ago, Unbias said:

 

So his retirement would hurt the Skins more?

 

And we're supposed to have cap expert Allen and contract wizard Schaffer onboard :blink:

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12 hours ago, Riggo-toni said:

I thought we can recoup when he fails his physical at the beginning of the football year.

Nah, those things usually take a while and become retroactively applied. And it wouldn't really make much sense for it to be applied once the league year starts We're not taking insurance against him being able to participate in mini camp, it's insurance if he can't play in games, which are 6 moths later.

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23 hours ago, TryTheBeal! said:

I am on the record for the 2019 mega-tank.

 

Give Sanchez the wheel!!

 

Time tested blueprint of failure...

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Last time I took a full cap hit was when I had a cold and was taking Nyquil..!! Huh? Huh?...

 

 

giphy.gif

 

 

 

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15 hours ago, skins2victory said:

What if Dan and Alex made a deal to rip apart the football contract so that the Redskins owe nothing. Have Dan pay Alex what we owe him outside of football. A multi million dollar gift out of the goodness of Dan's heart???? LOL

 

-But seriously, is something like that even possible?

 

It would violate all kinds of rules and that maggot Mara would be all over Roger to take away draft picks and smack us with a huge cap penalty.

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16 hours ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

God, yes.  This is what I'd do.  It'd be my goal to get so many picks for 2020 and 2021. 

 

I posted it last week, but the 30 for 30 short about Jimmy Johnson and what he did with the Herschel Walker trade was unbelievable.  How he built that team was simply amazing.  He just got as many picks as he could.

 

The goal should be to constantly to have one of the youngest, most affordable rosters in the league.  When you get a franchise QB or defensive end, lock em up but other than that it's a continual cycle of trading veterans for picks and trading picks for more picks.

 

In order to achieve that goal, the goal should be to have as many draft picks as possible.  Every year, the Redskins should have the most draft picks out of everyone.

 

 

Yes, but Brucifer.

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47 minutes ago, WelshSkinsFan said:

 

It would violate all kinds of rules and that maggot Mara would be all over Roger to take away draft picks and smack us with a huge cap penalty.

Pretty sure those are unwritten rules.

So yeah Marra would go rampage on us in this case.

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Watching the playoffs has convinced me that besides the obvious QB issue, this team has a playoff roster (though not one that'll likely go deep).  Problem ain't the roster but the guys not on the field (coaches and FO though not in terms of roster creation).  Of course, because of the Smith issue, we may not be able to fix the QB issue in a reasonable time. Further, the big issue seems to be the FO and we are not doing a thing there.

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22 hours ago, hatchetwound said:

I think this sounds like the right way to do it.  Tear it all down, bottom out and get a great QB.

 

I was wondering, should we go EXTREME with the tear down?  I was doing some research on Wikipedia and over the draft website.  First, here are our comp picks, projected:

WAS 3 Kirk Cousins $28,000,000
WAS 5 Trent Murphy $7,400,000
WAS 6 Ryan Grant $5,000,000

and looking at Wikipedia, we have these picks as well:

1
2
3
5
7

 

That means we are looking at a nice haul for the upcomping draft

1

2

3

3 (Comp)

5

5 (Comp)

6 (Comp)

7

 

Here is what I am thinking... Trade our picks.   Trade all of our picks, if possible, for future picks.  Often a team will give up a better future pick for a current pick.  Lets say someone wanted our 5th rounder?  Its yours for a fourth!  Want our first rounder?  Great, we'll take your first and 2nd\third next year.  This goes for comp picks.  you can trade them now, lets take advantage of that rule.

 

 

Why do this?  For one, we need to bottom out.  No point risking new young talent during this.  Lets see what we have, shed the dead weight next year (for more comp picks) and determine who should stay for depth.  Two, we are in a world of hurt with the cap hit.  Pushing back the draft picks will save us money now AND make the future cap much more manageable.  And the draft is a shotgun approach.  There are busts, but the more picks you make, the more likely you'll hit on a gem.

 

So if Bruce can pull off a miracle and trade EVERY SINGLE PICK, this means our 2020 draft could look something like:

1

1  (Traded form 2019 - 1+3)

2  

2 (Traded form 2019 - 3rd)

2 (Traded form 2019 - 3rd COMP)

2 (Traded form 2019 - 2+5)

3

3  (Traded form 2019 - 1+3)

4

4  (Traded form 2019 - 5th)

4  (Traded form 2019 - 5th COMP)

5

5  (Traded form 2019 - 6th)

5  (Traded form 2019 - 6th COMP)

5  (Traded form 2019 - 2+5)

6

6 (Traded form 2019 - 7th)

7

 

 

 

I went conservative.  I made it so a we only got a 1st and third for our 2019 first and a 2nd and 5th for our 2019 2nd.  In reality the haul could be even greater.  But even if we pull this off at conservative evidence, can you imagine what a killer young corps we can field with all of those 2020 picks.  Maybe even sell a few of our pieces that we have now but have a contract expiring in 2020 or later.  For example: We are going to cut Brown anyway, so lets take a 6th for him.  Then in a year or two, we will have a ton of cap space, and get the few extra pieces we need for a champiohship run!!!

 

Edit: Oh, and if we don't like a player in a round in 2020, sell the pick for a better 2021 picks!!!  We can push more picks into the future and own not one but several drafts.

I'm in, let's do it....

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1 hour ago, kingdaddy said:

I'm in, let's do it....

I was curious what rounds we see the one pick for a round better future picks tend to land on.  I was happily surprised.   It appears, as I expceted, that rounds 3-7 are game to trade one pick for a future pick one round better.  Here are some examples (I only am including one for one.  I found more where one pick gave both a future pick a round better  plus a throw in late round pick).

 

2018
No. 114: New England → Detroit (D). New England traded a fourth-round selection (114th) to Detroit in exchange for Detroit's third-round selection in 2019.

2017
No. 67: San Francisco → New Orleans (D). San Francisco traded their third-round selection (67th) to New Orleans in exchange for New Orleans's seventh-round selection (229th) and their 2018 second-round selection.
No. 191: NY Jets → Dallas (D). The New York Jets traded their sixth-round selection (191st) to Dallas in exchange for Dallas's fifth-round selection in 2018.

2016
No. 158: Washington → New York Jets (D). Washington traded this selection to the New York Jets in exchange for New York's fourth-round selection in 2017.[source 33]

2015
No. 113: Philadelphia → Detroit (D). Philadelphia traded this selection to Detroit in exchange for Detroit's 2016 third round selection (77th).[source 18]
No. 246: San Francisco → Dallas (D). San Francisco traded this selection to Dallas in exchange for Dallas' sixth round selection in the 2016 NFL draft (178th).[source 3]

2014
No. 218: Cleveland → Baltimore (D). Cleveland traded this selection to Baltimore in exchange for Baltimore's sixth round selection in 2015 (201st).[source 10]

 

In 2017 and 2018 there were trades that swapped 7th rounders and gave the team that moved down the following years 7th rounder.  How cool would it be to swap and get a future 7th and then trade that 7th for a future 6th!
 

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On 1/14/2019 at 12:03 PM, TryTheBeal! said:

I am on the record for the 2019 mega-tank.

 

Give Sanchez the wheel!!

 

 

Sanchize*

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On 1/14/2019 at 1:03 PM, TryTheBeal! said:

I am on the record for the 2019 mega-tank.

 

Give Sanchez the wheel!!

 

Absolutely. Get Smith off the books, trade Trent, trade our first for future firsts, lose 16 games. 

On 1/14/2019 at 4:36 PM, hatchetwound said:

I think this sounds like the right way to do it.  Tear it all down, bottom out and get a great QB.

 

I was wondering, should we go EXTREME with the tear down?  I was doing some research on Wikipedia and over the draft website.  First, here are our comp picks, projected:

WAS 3 Kirk Cousins $28,000,000
WAS 5 Trent Murphy $7,400,000
WAS 6 Ryan Grant $5,000,000

and looking at Wikipedia, we have these picks as well:

1
2
3
5
7

 

That means we are looking at a nice haul for the upcomping draft

1

2

3

3 (Comp)

5

5 (Comp)

6 (Comp)

7

 

Here is what I am thinking... Trade our picks.   Trade all of our picks, if possible, for future picks.  Often a team will give up a better future pick for a current pick.  Lets say someone wanted our 5th rounder?  Its yours for a fourth!  Want our first rounder?  Great, we'll take your first and 2nd\third next year.  This goes for comp picks.  you can trade them now, lets take advantage of that rule.

 

 

Why do this?  For one, we need to bottom out.  No point risking new young talent during this.  Lets see what we have, shed the dead weight next year (for more comp picks) and determine who should stay for depth.  Two, we are in a world of hurt with the cap hit.  Pushing back the draft picks will save us money now AND make the future cap much more manageable.  And the draft is a shotgun approach.  There are busts, but the more picks you make, the more likely you'll hit on a gem.

 

So if Bruce can pull off a miracle and trade EVERY SINGLE PICK, this means our 2020 draft could look something like:

1

1  (Traded form 2019 - 1+3)

2  

2 (Traded form 2019 - 3rd)

2 (Traded form 2019 - 3rd COMP)

2 (Traded form 2019 - 2+5)

3

3  (Traded form 2019 - 1+3)

4

4  (Traded form 2019 - 5th)

4  (Traded form 2019 - 5th COMP)

5

5  (Traded form 2019 - 6th)

5  (Traded form 2019 - 6th COMP)

5  (Traded form 2019 - 2+5)

6

6 (Traded form 2019 - 7th)

7

 

 

 

I went conservative.  I made it so a we only got a 1st and third for our 2019 first and a 2nd and 5th for our 2019 2nd.  In reality the haul could be even greater.  But even if we pull this off at conservative evidence, can you imagine what a killer young corps we can field with all of those 2020 picks.  Maybe even sell a few of our pieces that we have now but have a contract expiring in 2020 or later.  For example: We are going to cut Brown anyway, so lets take a 6th for him.  Then in a year or two, we will have a ton of cap space, and get the few extra pieces we need for a champiohship run!!!

 

Edit: Oh, and if we don't like a player in a round in 2020, sell the pick for a better 2021 picks!!!  We can push more picks into the future and own not one but several drafts.

 

Good to see kind & gentle folks coming along. Trent should have been gone last year along with our first.

 

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On 3/27/2018 at 3:42 PM, volsmet said:

 

Its really not close, moving Trent is the smart move. We wont win anything with him. We have a competent replacement. We are wasting opportunities to take a significant step towards building something that can win something meaningful. Imo.

 

When we win nothing, everyone will agree that we missed a huge opportunity by chasing mediocrity. Wentz/Dak getting paid while we are setting ourselves up with young elite talent is precisely what we should be doing. The desperation for tackles is unbelievable.

 

 

We should have been listening to this guy.

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The 31 mill is just part, what about the signing bonus spread over the length of the contract that will accelerate into his final year if we cut him or he can’t play. Also insurance only affects the Redskins cash, has nothing to do with cap. 

 

*edit* looks like the 31 might take that into account.  Confusing. 

Edited by HOF44
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On 1/14/2019 at 12:10 PM, Renegade7 said:

@Riggo-toni please make a poll question, because I agree with taking full cap hit if he doesn't want to retire before this season starts. 

 

Think we'd have to wait until after March 5th(open correction here, this was from Akex Smith thread started ) to help limit damage to cap best we can from the dead money this will cause.  Far as I'm concerned, even if he stayed it might as well be dead money.

 

Get it over with already.

 

 

I could have this wrong, and maybe someone already explained it - but after looking at the rules, I am pretty sure you cannot release an injured player that is under contract without paying their injury guarantees. So the only way they could release him before March 5th so his 2020 $16M salary does NOT become guaranteed, he would have to pass a physical between now and then. Not going to happen. The total CAP hit for Alex in 2019 would be: 

 

2019 salary + 2020 salary + remaining signing bonus = $15M + $16M + 4* $5.4M = $52.6M

 

So if you were to release him, $52.6M would be the CAP hit, not $31.2M. That's why is you look at Overthecap.com, they show the dead money at $36.6M (2019 salary $15M + remaining signing bonus $21.6M) but the CAP "savings" are negative (in red) of $16.2M (really do not know where the 200,000 comes from but otherwise the math is right.)

 

Having said that, i am all for it. Dump his contract now. You can get CAP with some creative moves. 

 

Trade, restructure, or release Trent Williams, Jordan Reed, Chris Thompson and Ryan Kerrigan. Release Norman, Foster, Brown and Davis. With the $21M they already have that would give them a total of between $50M and $80M probably in the middle with some extra draft picks.

 

Take the hit on Alex, sign a few bodies to small contracts. Then plan to roll the rest into 2020. Use the draft to get an edge rusher and get the Oline right in the first few rounds. Go BPA after thaty for depth - maybe find a diamond. Then you have both money and resources to solve the QB position in 2020 and still go after some top FAs. 

 

2020 here we come!!  

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