Alex Smith Actual Status

[OVCChairman]

2 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

 

I was thinking something along these lines as well. The Nats did a deal with Scherzer that pays him for many years after he is expected to retire. I wonder if Smith wouldnt be willing to rework his contract to a ten year deal fully guaranteed? He still gets his money after retiring and it might actually benefit him on the tax side. 

 

 

 

There is no cap in baseball so deferred money is not that big of a deal.  You really want a laugh, google "Bobby Bonilla Contract" but make sure you're not taking a sip of a beverage when you pull it up.  

if we were to make a deal with Alex to pay him over the next 10 years, there's no way we can avoid having that count toward the cap..

[dav87sc]

4 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

I was thinking something along these lines as well. The Nats did a deal with Scherzer that pays him for many years after he is expected to retire. I wonder if Smith wouldnt be willing to rework his contract to a ten year deal fully guaranteed? He still gets his money after retiring and it might actually benefit him on the tax side. 

Along a similar line of extending a contract out like that, I remember when the Mets restructured a deal with Bobby Bonilla for 15 years, 10 of it out after he retired.  It came to be seen as a mess (death of a thousand cuts type) and constant reminder how poor the signing was in the first place.  I would tend to want to restructure and get it off as fast as possible and not be handicapped for the next decade.  Take the hit your gonna take anyway.

[clskinsfan]

2 minutes ago, OVCChairman said:

 

 

There is no cap in baseball so deferred money is not that big of a deal.  You really want a laugh, google "Bobby Bonilla Contract" but make sure you're not taking a sip of a beverage when you pull it up.  

if we were to make a deal with Alex to pay him over the next 10 years, there's no way we can avoid having that count toward the cap..

 

I get that. but I would rather take a 7 million per year hit. That can be worked around. Getting hit for 40 mill over the next 2 years is debilitating. 

[dav87sc]

5 minutes ago, OVCChairman said:

There is no cap in baseball so deferred money is not that big of a deal.  You really want a laugh, google "Bobby Bonilla Contract" but make sure you're not taking a sip of a beverage when you pull it up.

didn't see your reply as I was typing, but yup.

[clskinsfan]

I was just messing around with the numbers. If we cut Norman, Reed and Brown this off season. We could potentially eat Smith's entire guarantee and still have a little money to play around with. I am really starting to wonder how much Brown's ridiculous 6 mill cap hit next year had on the decision to claim Foster. 

[OVCChairman]

14 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

 

I get that. but I would rather take a 7 million per year hit. That can be worked around. Getting hit for 40 mill over the next 2 years is debilitating. 

  

 

Where THIS franchise is right now?  I can't agree.  We're not loaded with talent on their 2nd or 3rd contracts where you're not going to need to add multiple pieces over the next few years to remain a contender.  We're on the brink of losing our GM as well as our HC.  We've got no long term solution at QB, and we've got A LOT of starters on their rookie deals.  To handcuff the next HC and GM and say "you're walking in knowing that you're salary cap for the next 10 years is going to be $7 mil less than your competition" is not something I want to do.  That means we're likely down a number of players EVERY season.

 

Mark Sanchez	QB	32	9	1 yr$915,000	$915,000	-	2019
Austin Howard	RT	31	9	1 yr$915,000	$915,000	-	2019
Tony Bergstrom	C	32	7	1 yr$880,000	$880,000	$90,000	2019
Michael Floyd	WR	29	7	1 yr$790,000	$790,000	-	2019
Jonathan Cooper	G	28	6	1 yr$790,000	$790,000	-	2019
Marcus Smith	DE	26	4	1 yr$790,000	$790,000	-	2019
Luke Bowanko	C	27	5	1 yr$790,000	$790,000	-	2019
Zac Kerin	C	27	4	1 yr$705,000	$705,000	-	2019
Jehu Chesson	WR	24	2	1 yr$555,000	$555,000	-	2019

 

 

those contracts add up to $7.13 mil. 

 

 

Those aren't exactly world beaters, but it seriously depletes your ability to retain your talent because that additional money to retain this type of depth would have to come from the top.  We'd have to likely give up on signing a player like Scherff in order to be able to field a whole team. 

 

Right NOW, we're likely to take it on the chin at some point and with almost the entirety of our talent on one side of the ball being on their rookie deals... you can absorb it a little better.  Cutting Norman, McGee, and possibly Brown, you can move on from aging contracts, absorb it, and take the hit for a single year or two.  Paying someone to NOT play for 10 years, regardless of the amount is even more painful imho.  

 

[JSSkinz]

We've eaten up over $4M in cap space during the season because of injuries and the need to sign replacements.

[OVCChairman]

6 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

I was just messing around with the numbers. If we cut Norman, Reed and Brown this off season. We could potentially eat Smith's entire guarantee and still have a little money to play around with. I am really starting to wonder how much Brown's ridiculous 6 mill cap hit next year had on the decision to claim Foster. 

 

 

Just saw this bud, this is why i'm wondering if it woudl be better to front load it and get out from under it. 

[Tsailand]

45 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

I would rather take a 7 million per year hit.

 

Not an option.  Once a player is off an NFL team, his entire remaining dead cap hit comes due.

 

You can designate him a post-June 1 cut, which pushes some of the remaining cap hit to the next league year, but that's it.

 

 

[JSSkinz]

I think so, free agency is weak for skilled positions this year so where would we use the money anyway, paying a bunch of money for lineman in free agency never works, focus on the draft and get rid of the bad debt now, we can clear as much as $70M in cap space and we wouldn't be losing much if anything in production.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[TD_washingtonredskins]

This sounds like a nightmare for him. 

 

Being injured sucks no matter what, but it seems like for most athletes it's a quick procedure and healing. I feel horrible for Smith. 

[clskinsfan]

1 hour ago, OVCChairman said:

 

 

Just saw this bud, this is why i'm wondering if it woudl be better to front load it and get out from under it. 

I agree. And if you take your lumps this off season it gives you the ability to sign Scherff and IO next off season. The bottom line is Bruce Allen needs to go. Just this years **** ups alone would get any other GM in this league fired.

[Skinsinparadise]

I can't recall a worse injury in terms of agony for a player here, closest thing I can think of is the double achilles injury for D. Hall but that wasn't that crazy and his health in general wasn't in jeopardy.

 

For those saying post injury that we should relax, and for all we know he can be ready for this coming season -- that to me now sounds nuts so I don't think that point holds but if it did great -- as much as I wasn't in love with his play, I do think he's the best QB on this roster.  However, at this point, I am hoping the dude can walk and his overall health isn't in jeopardy never mind be ready for the start of the season.

[Hooper]

According to Burgundy Blog's twitter feed, the Skins went rather cheap on Smith's insurance. For example, Matt Stafford and Cousins have 40 million dollars worth of salary cap insurance compared to Smith's twelve. Ugh.

[BraveWarrior]

I feel terrible for Alex. I'm feeling like this is career ending, but I hope not.

 

From a football standpoint, what is the next move for the Redskins? We should wind up with a pretty high draft pick (assuming Mark Sanchez doesn't have a career revival and help us make the playoffs), so who is coming out of college that might be worth taking in the 1st round? I keep hearing the next draft isn't as loaded as the last one, but who should we be looking at? 

[nonniey]

1 hour ago, BraveWarrior said:

I feel terrible for Alex. I'm feeling like this is career ending, but I hope not.

 

From a football standpoint, what is the next move for the Redskins? We should wind up with a pretty high draft pick (assuming Mark Sanchez doesn't have a career revival and help us make the playoffs), so who is coming out of college that might be worth taking in the 1st round? I keep hearing the next draft isn't as loaded as the last one, but who should we be looking at? 

The last one wasn't loaded and was considered to be a relatively weak  class compared to the previous two years. This class is considered to be much weaker.  Do we really want to go QB in the 1st or even 2d?

[UKskins]

I'm really confused here. The Alex Smith situation is totally horrible all ways up, and i wish him nothing but the absolute best in his recovery. A really brutal injury and sincerely hope he can make a full recovery but surely if he retires then we wouldn't be on the hook for any of the contract? I know it's an unlikely scenario, but I'm just trying to get my head around how we would still be liable if it did happen.

 

If a player retires then surely he forfeits his right to any contractual money owed, and that is completely unrelated to the reason for retirement? Retiring is a player voiding the contract he has signed. There may be all kind of insurance payments in that situation but I don't understand how we'd be on the hook for it. Surely retiring players wouldn't normally get paid up the remainder of their contract otherwise players would just sign up to a team and retire immediately to get one last pay day for nothing?

 

Is there something specific to do with the injury status that means we have to pay out of our cap if he is medically retired? It seems illogical for a team to have to pay out of the cap for a player who has retired, even if that money is guaranteed... even if we still have to pay smith, he wouldnt be on the roster if retired so he cant be on the cap and the dead cap rule should clearly have an exemption for this kind of situation... ludicrous if it doesnt...

[carex]

6 hours ago, UKskins said:

I'm really confused here. The Alex Smith situation is totally horrible all ways up, and i wish him nothing but the absolute best in his recovery. A really brutal injury and sincerely hope he can make a full recovery but surely if he retires then we wouldn't be on the hook for any of the contract? I know it's an unlikely scenario, but I'm just trying to get my head around how we would still be liable if it did happen.

 

If a player retires then surely he forfeits his right to any contractual money owed, and that is completely unrelated to the reason for retirement? Retiring is a player voiding the contract he has signed. There may be all kind of insurance payments in that situation but I don't understand how we'd be on the hook for it. Surely retiring players wouldn't normally get paid up the remainder of their contract otherwise players would just sign up to a team and retire immediately to get one last pay day for nothing?

 

Is there something specific to do with the injury status that means we have to pay out of our cap if he is medically retired? It seems illogical for a team to have to pay out of the cap for a player who has retired, even if that money is guaranteed... even if we still have to pay smith, he wouldnt be on the roster if retired so he cant be on the cap and the dead cap rule should clearly have an exemption for this kind of situation... ludicrous if it doesnt...

 

they get paid a portion of the contract they signed, though the team can use legal arguements to get some of it back, it's called the Barry Sander rule.  And it's possible it's only voluntarily retiring players that can happen with.

 

Personally I wonder if the team actually gets the money back or just the cap space back. 

 

Other things I've been wondering: can a team carry a player who will never again pass an NFL physical on PUP or IR?

 

And I wonder what the NFL would do if Smith retired at like the last day of the 2018 season.  It would put us in violation of the cap this year, but it's a legit medical injury so would they try to use the loss of draft picks part of the penalty

[Morneblade]

13 hours ago, Hooper said:

According to Burgundy Blog's twitter feed, the Skins went rather cheap on Smith's insurance. For example, Matt Stafford and Cousins have 40 million dollars worth of salary cap insurance compared to Smith's twelve. Ugh.

 

Sounds just like Bruce.

2 hours ago, carex said:

 

they get paid a portion of the contract they signed, though the team can use legal arguements to get some of it back, it's called the Barry Sander rule.  And it's possible it's only voluntarily retiring players that can happen with.

 

Personally I wonder if the team actually gets the money back or just the cap space back. 

 

Other things I've been wondering: can a team carry a player who will never again pass an NFL physical on PUP or IR?

 

And I wonder what the NFL would do if Smith retired at like the last day of the 2018 season.  It would put us in violation of the cap this year, but it's a legit medical injury so would they try to use the loss of draft picks part of the penalty

 

Why would Smith retire when he's still going to need months of physical therapy at that point? If/when he decides to retire, it will be after he's undergone the full rehabilitation on his leg and it's obvious that he can't play anymore. That is going to be, at the earliest, well past the beginning of the 2019 year. And his contract will be guaranteed.

 

But what is actually going to happen is that he will not retire, and stay on the roster until we can cut him without a gigantic cap hit in 2020.

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

12 hours ago, BraveWarrior said:

I feel terrible for Alex. I'm feeling like this is career ending, but I hope not.

 

From a football standpoint, what is the next move for the Redskins? We should wind up with a pretty high draft pick (assuming Mark Sanchez doesn't have a career revival and help us make the playoffs), so who is coming out of college that might be worth taking in the 1st round? I keep hearing the next draft isn't as loaded as the last one, but who should we be looking at? 

 

Pretty high draft pick?  Right now it’s #14, look at all the teams below us and in a 6 game win log jam.  Doubt we even crack the top 10 even if we lose out.  

 

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

29 minutes ago, Dont Taze Me Bro said:

 

Pretty high draft pick?  Right now it’s #14, look at all the teams below us and in a 6 game win log jam.  Doubt we even crack the top 10 even if we lose out.  

 

 

Nah, 6-10 is always good for a 6-10 draft pick.  Some of those 6-10 teams are going to win a game or 2.

 

We need to play this game to win, but if we lose, it’s time to pack it in and lose out. 

43 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

But what is actually going to happen is that he will not retire, and stay on the roster until we can cut him without a gigantic cap hit in 2020.

Right. Smith won’t retire because that means giving money back.  He’s be just plain stupid to do that.  And he’s nit stupid.

 

They need to cut him this year though and take the full hit in 2019 and just be done with it.  Otherwise it’s going to bleed into 2021.  Seriously. It will be like 3 years of 18 million dollar cap penalty to get out of this thing unless they just bite the bullet and do it all at once.

 

Not winning the SB in 2019 anyway, so might as well use it to clear the deck of all the crap Allen and Jay mediocrity.

[Morneblade]

8 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Nah, 6-10 is always good for a 6-10 draft pick.  Some of those 6-10 teams are going to win a game or 2.

 

We need to play this game to win, but if we lose, it’s time to pack it in and lose out. 

Right. Smith won’t retire because that means giving money back.  He’s be just plain stupid to do that.  And he’s nit stupid.

 

They need to cut him this year though and take the full hit in 2019 and just be done with it.  Otherwise it’s going to bleed into 2021.  Seriously. It will be like 3 years of 18 million dollar cap penalty to get out of this thing unless they just bite the bullet and do it all at once.

 

Not winning the SB in 2019 anyway, so might as well use it to clear the deck of all the crap Allen and Jay mediocrity.

 

If I'm looking at this correctly, and we do a pre June 1st cut, it's 36.6 million. Obviously, that means cutting/trading a bunch of guys, and bringing in guys off the streets to fill the void, as you would not be able to really pay anyone. I'm not sure Snyder has the guts to do that. Ok, let me put that another way. I don't think there is anyway in Hell Snyder has the guts to start over like that. New FO, and just get rid of all the dead weight.

[carex]

27 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Nah, 6-10 is always good for a 6-10 draft pick.  Some of those 6-10 teams are going to win a game or 2.

 

We need to play this game to win, but if we lose, it’s time to pack it in and lose out. 

Right. Smith won’t retire because that means giving money back.  He’s be just plain stupid to do that.  And he’s nit stupid.

 

They need to cut him this year though and take the full hit in 2019 and just be done with it.  Otherwise it’s going to bleed into 2021.  Seriously. It will be like 3 years of 18 million dollar cap penalty to get out of this thing unless they just bite the bullet and do it all at once.

 

Not winning the SB in 2019 anyway, so might as well use it to clear the deck of all the crap Allen and Jay mediocrity.

 

can't cut a guy who can't pass a physical

[Voice_of_Reason]

23 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

If I'm looking at this correctly, and we do a pre June 1st cut, it's 36.6 million. Obviously, that means cutting/trading a bunch of guys, and bringing in guys off the streets to fill the void, as you would not be able to really pay anyone. I'm not sure Snyder has the guts to do that. Ok, let me put that another way. I don't think there is anyway in Hell Snyder has the guts to start over like that. New FO, and just get rid of all the dead weight.

He doesn’t, which doesn’t mean it’s the wrong decision.

 

 

9 minutes ago, carex said:

 

can't cut a guy who can't pass a physical

Actually you can reach an injury settlement and pay his entire salary.