OVCChairman Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 2 minutes ago, dballer said: Basically on the hook for 31 million over the next two years, 15m in 2019, 16m in 2020. Only way out of that is if he retires, which would be a ridiculous decision for Smith. All he has to do is continue to try to rehab and be on the roster on St. Patrick's day. At that point, he fails his physical, and 2020 is guaranteed. 2021 - 24.4 million cap - 10.8 million dead money for signing bonus - Could save 13.6 by cutting him 2022 - Would be first year completely clear The way I heard it, we're on the hook regardless of whether he retires or not because they're guaranteed AT signing. The only money we would have a case to go after would be signing bonus money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morneblade Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 38 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said: Thank you! Would someone summarize if you listen? It seems like someone should eventually to be able to boil it down to: The insurance policy does/doesn't provide cap relief. I'm glad Alex can get his money and, quite honestly, don't really care if Snyder has to pay him or not. But I do care about the impact to the roster (of course all of this is secondary to the guy being healthy). I just listened to it and it's fairly straight forward. It did not discuss any insurance however. Alex is on the books for his 71 million guaranteed. Earliest we can cut him is 2021 (or designate him a June 1st cut in 2020) without a humongous cap hit. This coming St. Patty's day is the day his 2020 salary will be guaranteed. That is about 5 months away, and he will be nowhere near passing a physical, so there is absolutely no way around paying him. The only way would for Alex to retire, and it was pointed out, again, how this would be very stupid and would not happen. So, there is no cap relief coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Est.1974 Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 Only way we get cap 'relief' would be if the insurance pays out direct to Smith (ie, was taken out on behalf of Smith) after we've agreed to a contract settlement with him. Unlikely, but possible. It may actually benefit the insurer to negotiate a settlement if it reduced their liability. You never know. Seems like a rare situation here. No doubt it ends in controversy. However, I will add again that the priority here is Smiths health. Really hoping he gains full recovery irrespective of it's impact on his career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheYappingDog Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 4 minutes ago, Morneblade said: I just listened to it and it's fairly straight forward. It did not discuss any insurance however. Alex is on the books for his 71 million guaranteed. Earliest we can cut him is 2021 (or designate him a June 1st cut in 2020) without a humongous cap hit. This coming St. Patty's day is the day his 2020 salary will be guaranteed. That is about 5 months away, and he will be nowhere near passing a physical, so there is absolutely no way around paying him. The only way would for Alex to retire, and it was pointed out, again, how this would be very stupid and would not happen. So, there is no cap relief coming. Can Alex not retire and Snyder give him a big brown envelope under the desk - serious question. Would the league go ape? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooper Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 Barring Alex retiring and walking away from a ton of money, we are not getting cap relief. There is no insurance policy that will help with the cap. Simple and sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Est.1974 Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 2 minutes ago, TheYappingDog said: Can Alex not retire and Snyder give him a big brown envelope under the desk - serious question. Would the league go ape? That made me laugh. I will give you that 👏 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooper Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 3 minutes ago, TheYappingDog said: Can Alex not retire and Snyder give him a big brown envelope under the desk - serious question. Would the league go ape? Yes. After the skins got busted getting cute with the cap before, they got a 36 mil cap penalty. They would be seen as repeat offenders. But hey, maybe the league would force Danny to sell. Ha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheYappingDog Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 1 minute ago, Hooper said: Yes. After the skins got busted getting cute with the cap before, they got a 36 mil cap penalty. They would be seen as repeat offenders. But hey, maybe the league would force Danny to sell. Ha. Thanks for the answer If i recall correctly, didn't Tom Brady agree to a cap friendly deal to help the patriots? How is that so different? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooper Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 2 minutes ago, TheYappingDog said: Thanks for the answer If i recall correctly, didn't Tom Brady agree to a cap friendly deal to help the patriots? How is that so different? Because he agreed to. Nothing was shady about it. Signed a deal that was seen as a bargain, that’s it. If he got hurt, pats would have to pay whatever guaranteed money hasn’t been paid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morneblade Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 1 minute ago, TheYappingDog said: Thanks for the answer If i recall correctly, didn't Tom Brady agree to a cap friendly deal to help the patriots? How is that so different? You're kidding right? There is a difference between a player, that has been with one team his entire career singing a under market value contract because he wants to WIN and a player, not even in his first year with a team, in his 13th season, retiring to help with cap, while he is seriously injured and would then forfeit all kinds of rehab. Honestly, that would get my attention too, for all the wrong reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Est.1974 Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 Just now, Hooper said: Barring Alex retiring and walking away from a ton of money, we are not getting cap relief. There is no insurance policy that will help with the cap. Simple and sad. The point is that the insurance policy pays Smith out directly, therefore he gets less from us. It's not cap relief, its that the cap hit is less as he's had less cash from us and his income is subsidised by additional money via an insurer. Very possible, depending on contacts in the insurance business and persuasion to bending the rules. Just say we have full cover on Smith. Complete cover for loss of payments via injury. So the insurer must reimburse us 31mil for his 2019 and 2020 salaries....they might fancy the option of brokering a deal... Wishful thinking, but no way this is cut and dry. I'm in the finance game, and nothing needs to be as you would instinctively expect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheYappingDog Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 Just now, Hooper said: Because he agreed to. Nothing was shady about it. Well Alex can agree to retire and get a golden handshake as a parting gift The point I'm trying to make is that brady and the patriots got away with it while not being true to the spirit of the law - we all know he signed for less that he was worth as a multiple superbowl winning league leading mvp several times over Why can't alex and snyder "come to an agreement" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morneblade Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 5 minutes ago, TheYappingDog said: Well Alex can agree to retire and get a golden handshake as a parting gift The point I'm trying to make is that brady and the patriots got away with it while not being true to the spirit of the law - we all know he signed for less that he was worth as a multiple superbowl winning league leading mvp several times over Why can't alex and snyder "come to an agreement" . Just . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 Retire, return the entire remaining SB. forego the 19 and 20 salaries and then sign a consulting deal with the team for 43 million over the next 2 years. Bam! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooper Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 4 minutes ago, TheYappingDog said: Well Alex can agree to retire and get a golden handshake as a parting gift The point I'm trying to make is that brady and the patriots got away with it while not being true to the spirit of the law - we all know he signed for less that he was worth as a multiple superbowl winning league leading mvp several times over Why can't alex and snyder "come to an agreement" Brady was seen as doing this because he wanted to help the team keep other players and because his wife makes more than anyone in the NFL. Nothing about it was shady. Skins are only getting out of cap hit if Smith retires and walks away from the guaranteed money. Any portion of guaranteed owed money paid by insurance taken out by the Skins will still count against the cap. If they try to something shady — like secretly pay him while he says he walked away from the money — they will be penalized. And I don’t see Smith being the type. 2 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said: Retire, return the entire remaining SB. forego the 19 and 20 salaries and then sign a consulting deal with the team for 43 million over the next 2 years. Bam! Docked two firsts at least. Maybe three because if you know anything about the other owners, they think Danny is a tool. Except for Jerry, who looks at him as a dumb little brother . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsailand Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 2 hours ago, RandyHolt said: I still question why we extended him, before the season had already ended. 2018 was the final year of his contract. I think we learned our lesson already about not making QBs play on contract years. The problem with the Alex Smith contract is simply that Bruce paid too much and made too much of it guaranteed, relative to the value of Alex Smith as QB. You can point towards other QBs who got more guaranteed money, but they are a lot better than Alex Smith, and they didn't require giving up a pick and a player just to bring in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsailand Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 49 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said: Only way we get cap 'relief' would be if the insurance pays out direct to Smith (ie, was taken out on behalf of Smith) after we've agreed to a contract settlement with him. I think the rest of the league would take a hard look at this. My first question would be about the premiums we paid into the Alex Smith Injury Insurance Program. Were we counting them against our cap? If not, then at best we don't get cap relief, and at worst the NFL decides we were cheating the cap even before the injury, and imposes penalties. 1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said: EVERYBODY: Go listen to Yesterday's Redskins Talk Pod with JP Finley. He had Joel Corey on, former agent and cap specialist. He goes through the whole situation as well as anybody I’ve heard. Honestly, I’d have to re-listen to it to summarize, and I do t have time. But for those interested, it’s a really good listen. Listening now. https://rss.art19.com/episodes/4ebb9b8f-4a15-449f-ac56-2517da69c5cf.mp3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tay Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 Quote The Broncos insured Peyton Manning against any non-neck injuries sustained during the 2014 season (neck related injuries were covered in the contract itself). They would have received $10 million if he was unable to play. The policy has to be reviewed by the league, and the premiums count against the salary cap. Any payouts are considered a refund from the player, and are credited to the cap for the next sea We would get relief, but the premium counts against the cap. This is from the Peyton contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSSkinz Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 4 hours ago, Hooper said: The policy most likely just means the insurance company has to pay off a portion of the guaranteed money. There will be no cap relief. I can see Bruce trying to get cute, but the league has no respect for him and if anything he'll just end getting the team penalized again cuz ya know, Bruce. A rookie QB on a cheap rookie deal will prevent real cap problems, but Smith's cap hit will prevent the team from taking advantage of the cheap rookie deal and stacking the roster around a cheap rookie QB. This is not true and Joel Corry was on the radio today explaining how it will be $12M in cap relief due to the policy, he said he browsed the contract and only saw the $12M number but there could have been more, he gave examples of policies for Rodgers and Cousins which have $28M and $40M insurance policies. Here is the link so people can stop guessing. https://thefandc.radio.com/media/audio-channel/12718-hour-2-joel-corry-craig-hoffman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Est.1974 Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 2 minutes ago, JSSkinz said: he gave examples of policies for Rodgers and Cousins which have $28M and $40 insurance policies. thats funny 😂 48 minutes ago, Tsailand said: I think the rest of the league would take a hard look at this. My first question would be about the premiums we paid into the Alex Smith Injury Insurance Program. Were we counting them against our cap? If not, then at best we don't get cap relief, and at worst the NFL decides we were cheating the cap even before the injury, and imposes penalties. I willl stick by my very initial position that we don't take a full 71mil hit on this deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSSkinz Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 Corry knows his stuff, the podcast doesn't cover every detail but the key points are that we do have a policy, its $12M, and yes we can recoup that cap space and this would not be the first time a policy was used for this reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooper Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 Okay, I stand corrected. 12 million spread out over two years isn’t much, but better than nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsailand Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 So a healthy Alex Smith was a $71 million cap disaster, but thanks to a horrific career-ending injury, his contract will only end up being a $59 million cap disaster. Thanks Bruce Allen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morneblade Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 I don't know. Starting around the 7:30 mark, Corry is talking about one time where the Packers got a $350,000 cap credit because Rodgers missed several games. He then discusses Alex's contract, when he states that there is a 12 million dollar insurance policy of the signing bonus due to a NON FOOTBALL RELATED INJURY. This was obviously a football injury. I'm not sure it's going to do anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazel-Ra Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 So in other words we just need to look at this like we got another 30 odd million dollar cap penalty spread out over 2 years...? Bruce has got to go... We're now looking at 2024 before we'll ever be competitive again and that's IF the usual albatross that hangs around this team's neck decides to move on. I'm just... over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.