What is Wrong with Alex Smith?

[Chachie]

5 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Great QBs make players around them better, giving him that much money and having to put players around him to make him better makes me sick.

 

 

I agree with this sentiment. I want to him to hit what we have.

 

I'm thinking though, that Alex will never go down in history as a "great" QB. In the circumstance we're in, we will need better talent around him. He's the same game manager he was in SF and KC but in KC he had better talent around him and a better coach coaching him. They made him better and he returned the favor by being good at keeping the ball in their hands. Here in DC, he's keeping the ball in our hands but we need more talent at WR. We're not gonna get Andy Reid. (And man, do we need Jordan Reed to come out of hiding.)

[Morneblade]

12 minutes ago, SAli457180 said:

 

I don't see a change at QB unless there's an injury.  I actually think Smith had his best game today with less talent around him.  IMO, he's getting more comfortable, but that should've been the case from the start.  

 

Not his best game, that was week 1. But likely his best game in several weeks, even with a couple of really bad looking balls. Still, he was more accurate today, and his passes didn't look as bad as last week. Defense should get the game ball with week, but Smith did a little more today.

[Dirt]

1 hour ago, Taylor 36 said:

 If we go one and done in the playoffs (I still believe we won't even get in when it is all said and done), and have a much tougher schedule next year and barely contend most of the season, you think that is okay?  Just keep doing the same old same old?  We are not going anywhere with this QB or with Bruce Allen.  

So if you're not saying "lose out" then what are you saying?  We can't wave a magic wand and make a new QB and GM.  We can attempt to do those things in the off season and believe it or not, we don't have to lose out to do it.

 

Some of you are complaining just to complain.  The lose out thing is beyond ridiculous, so otherwise what exactly are y'all suggesting?

[Renegade7]

10 minutes ago, Chachie said:

 

 

I agree with this sentiment. I want to him to hit what we have.

 

I'm thinking though, that Alex will never go down in history as a "great" QB. In the circumstance we're in, we will need better talent around him. He's the same game manager he was in SF and KC but in KC he had better talent around him and a better coach coaching him. They made him better and he returned the favor by being good at keeping the ball in their hands. Here in DC, he's keeping the ball in our hands but we need more talent at WR. We're not gonna get Andy Reid. (And man, do we need Jordan Reed to come out of hiding.)

 

Problem is that why both teams got rid of him, that sounds good but they couldn't win a championship like that.

 

On Reed, he gets pulled out of third down passing situations a lot this year.  I find that unacceptable.  When i was at the Dallas game I saw them take Reed off the field a lot, too.  He's not hurt, he's our best receiver, we need to act like it.  Reed should be Alex first read every play, but it's not, you can see its not.

[Cooleyfan1993]

He just sucks. End thread ??? 

 

ugh. Another 2 1/2 years of this ****. Yippeeeeeee.........

[BleedBNG]

2 hours ago, Llevron said:

I mean, we are 6-3. We were never 6-3 with Cousins. You keep missing that. 

 

We went 6-3 with a tie in 2016. Since the Snyder era we've gone 6-3 three times... 2000, 2008, and 2016. Neither year ended in any playoffs. Not really optimistic about Smith for the rest of the year, but I would still feel the same if Cousins were still here. Don't really like either.

[dckey]

34 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Problem is that why both teams got rid of him, that sounds good but they couldn't win a championship like that.

 

On Reed, he gets pulled out of third down passing situations a lot this year.  I find that unacceptable.  When i was at the Dallas game I saw them take Reed off the field a lot, too.  He's not hurt, he's our best receiver, we need to act like it.  Reed should be Alex first read every play, but it's not, you can see its not.

I agree that this is not a Championship formula, but thats also why I blame the fo more.  Because if you believe that is a Championship formula, why are you not surrounding him with team speed.  My main issue is if you have a check down qb, then why do we have slow WRs.  We should have picked every wr that runs below a 4.4 to help 

[Renegade7]

7 minutes ago, dckey said:

I agree that this is not a Championship formula, but thats also why I blame the fo more.  Because if you believe that is a Championship formula, why are you not surrounding him with team speed.  My main issue is if you have a check down qb, then why do we have slow WRs.  We should have picked every wr that runs below a 4.4 to help 

 

No, this is why you don't get a check down QB.  If it's not a championship formula, what's the point? 

[Taylor 36]

56 minutes ago, Dirt said:

So if you're not saying "lose out" then what are you saying?  We can't wave a magic wand and make a new QB and GM.  We can attempt to do those things in the off season and believe it or not, we don't have to lose out to do it.

 

Some of you are complaining just to complain.  The lose out thing is beyond ridiculous, so otherwise what exactly are y'all suggesting?

Who is "y'all?"  I have seen one poster on here suggest that they want to lose out.  One.  I have never said that is what I would like to happen or what I want.  I want to have a competent QB behind center that allows me to have hope that we can win a game if we go down by one score, one that gives me hope for the future and not the reality that winning despite him is nothing more than a recipe for losing when it would matter most.  Not that it matters what any of us want.  The reality is that we don't have that QB right now, but it would be nice if we try to do something about that sooner rather than later.  

 

This all started when another poster asked about getting a new QB with Allen in charge, and poised the question to those of us not content with the status quo mediocrity of the FO, wanted to know why there would be any faith in Allen, a guy we don't trust, picking another QB.  I answered saying that ideally, I would want Allen gone as well as Smith, maybe even Jay.  How that turned into there being a group of lose outters and me being part of it, I don't know.  So, to answer your question, I am not suggesting anything other than we need to get rid of Allen and Smith, because neither is going to help this team get to where we want to be.

[dckey]

2 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

No, this is why you don't get a check down QB.  If it's not a championship formula, what's the point? 

Which is my point that IF you believe it's a Championship formula, you don't have that type of roster

[Renegade7]

37 minutes ago, dckey said:

Which is my point that IF you believe it's a Championship formula, you don't have that type of roster

I'm just not sure why you are making that point when they shouldn't of brought Alex here to begin with. At best with the way out in 3 years we never intended to build the team around him, it was to stay competitive and try to make some runs with the roster we had until we drafted his replacement.  We coulda done that with Keenum for less.  You don't blow up your offense to fit a QB in his mid-30s.

[dckey]

1 minute ago, Renegade7 said:

I'm just not sure why you are making that point when they shouldn't of brought Alex here to begin with. At best with the way out in 3 years we never intended to build the team around him, it was to stay competitive and try to make some runs with the roster we had until we drafted his replacement.  We coulda done that with Keenum for less.  You don't blow up your offense to fit a QB in his mid-30s.

I respectfully disagree with you, I truly believe they thought they had a great wr roster and RB to match Alex.  By drafting Guice, and hoping Reed, Crowder, Richardson and CT were healthy and Doctson becoming a legit #1.  I just didn't like that we put our hopes into injury prone players and it never fails.

[Renegade7]

1 minute ago, dckey said:

I respectfully disagree with you, I truly believe they thought they had a great wr roster and RB to match Alex.  By drafting Guice, and hoping Reed, Crowder, Richardson and CT were healthy and Doctson becoming a legit #1.  I just didn't like that we put our hopes into injury prone players and it never fails.

I don't think we are disagreeing (or at least I don't know what we are disagreeing about anymore).  We started with me calling out Alex and you saying people are saying its all his fault, which I came back saying Alex is playing poorly regardless of what other players are doing.  Now if I got this right you said a second ago we shoulda drafted a bunch of fast receivers to put around him the first year and that front office overestimated how much talent we had on offense again.  I agree we need to stop relying on injured players, but this still comes back for me that Alex is not playing enough with what we have, its bad QB play, it would be better with better QB play.

[Dirt]

50 minutes ago, Taylor 36 said:

Who is "y'all?"  I have seen one poster on here suggest that they want to lose out.  One.  I have never said that is what I would like to happen or what I want.  I want to have a competent QB behind center that allows me to have hope that we can win a game if we go down by one score, one that gives me hope for the future and not the reality that winning despite him is nothing more than a recipe for losing when it would matter most.  Not that it matters what any of us want.  The reality is that we don't have that QB right now, but it would be nice if we try to do something about that sooner rather than later.  

 

This all started when another poster asked about getting a new QB with Allen in charge, and poised the question to those of us not content with the status quo mediocrity of the FO, wanted to know why there would be any faith in Allen, a guy we don't trust, picking another QB.  I answered saying that ideally, I would want Allen gone as well as Smith, maybe even Jay.  How that turned into there being a group of lose outters and me being part of it, I don't know.  So, to answer your question, I am not suggesting anything other than we need to get rid of Allen and Smith, because neither is going to help this team get to where we want to be.

Fair enough.  Just saying, no changes are happening this season, and likely not in the off season either if we make the playoffs so don't get your hopes up.  The QB situation though, yeah obviously we gotta get younger, and I'm seeing a draft pick developing behind alex for a year or two.  In the meantime, the team is winning.  It ain't perfect but it ain't broke, so we don't need to do anything drastic.  Draft a guy next year, keep growing, and soon you might not care about Allen.  

[Malapropismic Depository]

With Alex it's basically you get a glass that's exactly half full.

He does just enough to get you the win, the majority of the time.

Believe it or not, there are some starting QB's in this league who would find a way to lose some of our games that we won.

And teams of Redskins' past also would have found a way to lose some of those games, too.

Alex and this team just "know how to win" and he has the poise to accomplish it. Can't say that AP did it all on his own this time, because we won with only 68 yards and 3.6 ypc from AP today. Even if you're not puttin up huge stats, you at least want ball control, and pace, meaning at least eat up some clock. He did that too, with a T.O.P. comparable to the Bucs, despite all their long drives.

4-1 over the last 5 games ain't bad.

Them are just the facts.

[dckey]

7 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

I don't think we are disagreeing (or at least I don't know what we are disagreeing about anymore).  We started with me calling out Alex and you saying people are saying its all his fault, which I came back saying Alex is playing poorly regardless of what other players are doing.  Now if I got this right you said a second ago we shoulda drafted a bunch of fast receivers to put around him the first year and that front office overestimated how much talent we had on offense again.  I agree we need to stop relying on injured players, but this still comes back for me that Alex is not playing enough with what we have, its bad QB play, it would be better with better QB play.

I don't think Alex is playing bad, I believe he's playing the way he's played his whole career.  Safe throws, check downs and he was never an anticipation thrower.  I am not going to buy strip steak and then get mad because it's not filet mignon!!!!

[Renegade7]

Just now, dckey said:

I don't think Alex is playing bad, I believe he's playing the way he's played his whole career.  Safe throws, check downs and he was never an anticipation thrower.  I am not going to buy strip steak and then get mad because it's not filet mignon!!!!

Well, we gave him $55 million guaranteed, so I'm mad.

[NoCalMike]

I think it is reasonable that the FO felt that if Alex was going to be here for 3-5 season coupled with a healthy roster going into the season, they could roll with what they had this season and look to further upgrade in the offseason.  Look at how long it took to build the defense to what they are now, and even now they aren't dominate, (consistently I mean) just a ton better than previous seasons.

 

I think sometimes people expect an entire unit to be rebuilt in a single offseason.  Maybe the FO got Smith here, wanted to evaluate the guys around him this season and look to add more pieces going forward.   

 

This organization does have scouts, I am sure they know damn well what having Hunt, Hill, & Kelce meant to stats and production of Alex Smith, but it's not like those three guys are just sitting around waiting to be signed. 

 

All that said, I don't think the 2018 roster on offense is lock to be the same in 2019 & Beyond.  Guice will be back....other then that and some of the key pieces on the O-line? Who knows.

[dckey]

13 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

Well, we gave him $55 million guaranteed, so I'm mad.

I can't get Mad at you for that bro!!!!   ???

[Malapropismic Depository]

This team kinda reminds me of Gibbs 2.0.

Even when we made it to the playoffs, our offense was weak.....ironically the Tampa playoff game, and the Seattle playoff game....meanwhile we relied on a strong defense.

Alex Smith is almost like a Todd Collins or Mark Brunell.

[purbeast]

I watched the game in about an hour just now because I was gone all day and could FF through it all.

 

And damn, when you can see plays back to back you realize how boring this offense is and yes, Alex Smiths sucks.  He has happy feet and panics like ****.  One late sack he took he could have EASILY bumped it off to someone by the sidelines with no one on him.  And it was a 3rd down too.

 

And that miss to Davis when he was WIDE OPEN?  

 

You simply cannot miss that.

 

He sucks.  But we're winning right now so I don't really care.  Thank god for our defense holy ****.

 

EDIT:

 

That said, he did have some great throws today but they were few and far between.  The TD to Doctson was a really great throw in traffic.  But again, far and few between with a lot left on the field.

[Cooleyfan1993]

3 hours ago, BleedBNG said:

 

We went 6-3 with a tie in 2016. Since the Snyder era we've gone 6-3 three times... 2000, 2008, and 2016. Neither year ended in any playoffs. Not really optimistic about Smith for the rest of the year, but I would still feel the same if Cousins were still here. Don't really like either.

If we went 6-3 with a tie in 2016, that’s not 6-3. That’s 6-3-1. That’s still pretty good though. Kirk has a good shot at getting to that record with a win next week  

 

 

[goskins10]

11 minutes ago, purbeast said:

I watched the game in about an hour just now because I was gone all day and could FF through it all.

 

And damn, when you can see plays back to back you realize how boring this offense is and yes, Alex Smiths sucks.  He has happy feet and panics like ****.  One late sack he took he could have EASILY bumped it off to someone by the sidelines with no one on him.  And it was a 3rd down too.

 

And that miss to Davis when he was WIDE OPEN?  

 

You simply cannot miss that.

 

He sucks.  But we're winning right now so I don't really care.  Thank god for our defense holy ****.

 

EDIT:

 

That said, he did have some great throws today but they were few and far between.  The TD to Doctson was a really great throw in traffic.  But again, far and few between with a lot left on the field.

 

He was not good today clearly - especially in the first half. Defense and STs won the game - not sure why people are sleeping on the STs. I remember last year everyone wanting to get rid of Kotwika - he had nothing but scrubs off the street last year due to so many injuries and Tress Way had an off year. This year they are playing great - could seriously consider a game ball to Way - 5 punts 49 yd ave - longest 58 yds. Guy kept them pinned all day - but I digress. Yes, I was exaggerating about a game ball - but he did have a very good game. 

 

Alex was not horrible in the second half - not great or even good, but not horrible. He led a good TD drive and a FG and then played keep away.

 

I believe the sack was intentional to let the clock run. Could be wrong, Have to look at it again.

 

 

[TSO]

14 hours ago, Morneblade said:

 

He hasn't been warned. One of the Mods (I think it was @thesubmittedone) had mentioned that they might at some point ban talking about Kirk in all thread but the Bruce Allen thread, because it was very relevant there. But on one was warned about it, and that has not been enacted. He's just triggered by it is all.

 

That was actually @Jumbo who initially brought that up (well, openly, it’s always a topic among us). 

 

As for me, I have repeatedly warned @bobandweave and others about bringing Kirk up directly or indirectly, then throwing a fit when others counter by saying something like “let’s move on” or “why are we bringing him up, he’s a Viking”.

 

Essentially, it’s “yeah, we’ll talk about him only when we want to and in the context we prefer, otherwise everyone shut up and stop it”. It’s an attempt to stifle discussion which is the antithesis of the board. It’s something you see all over the place in other social media outlets. Straight trollish behavior. 

 

Similarly, posters will “like” certain posts about Kirk, then when the discussion turns away from the context they prefer, they make posts or “like” posts telling everyone to shut up and move on. 

 

As long as we allow it, Kirk can be brought up with regards to Alex and/or Bruce. There is a legitimate and healthy discussion to be had there. And so long as it maintains some semblance of that, we’ll continue to allow it. 

 

Until that changes (there’s definitely evidence to suggest it has or it will) we’ll put a stop to it per our role as mods. Otherwise, we don’t need anyone attempting to do so when it suits their agenda. 

 

Bobandweave should not have said he was warned not to talk about Kirk. It’s actually quite the opposite. That’s a gross misrepresentation and I’m glad you guys noticed that. 

 

———————————————-

 

As for this thread, you know, it’s really odd. 

 

I’m super happy and enjoying this season overall at 6-3 (though the losses have absolutely sucked, lol, they’re not even anywhere near a “moral victory”, yeesh). The defense has been fun to watch for the most part and our special teams (particularly our kicking game) has been excellent. Magnificent even! Of course, AD has been wonderful as well. Good times. 

 

I’m also extremely concerned about Alex’s limitations thus far and the very legitimate possibility that he ends up being the biggest hindrance to real playoff-level contention. 

 

And, yet, I have absolutely zero cognitive dissonance regarding that and feel perfectly fine with airing those concerns in a thread about, uhm, Alex. In fact, the concern is there specifically because I want to keep enjoying myself. 

 

Which is really weird, right? Because I keep reading posts, in this thread about Alex, telling me that (because of those perfectly reasonable feelings) I’m not really happy about our record and I need to enjoy this. That one coming into a thread about Alex and discussing the presently obvious flaws in his game is indicative of being miserable overall or something. That extreme conflation of QB performance to a team’s win/loss record is perfectly fine and acceptable and not utterly nonsensical as proven a thousand times over. 

 

I mean, am I in another thread that’s about celebrating our season as a whole or even a particular unit playing well, where many are unjustly airing those concerns about Alex? The mind ponders. ?

 

I must be crazy. Enjoying this season and having fun while largely being frustrated, disappointed and rightfully concerned regarding a major team strength in the past that has now become a glaring weakness due to QB play from someone we heavily invested in.

 

That’s impossible! Can’t be! I must be lying to myself and deep down I’m absolutely miserable. Thank you ES for waking me up to how deeply unhappy I truly am, all this time I’ve been blissfully asleep.  ?

 

 

 

Alright, no more tongue in cheek silliness. This particular win has me extra pleased because, with the Eagles losing as well, it gives us some big time cushion. It also came against the type of opponent our formula usually fails against (and you can clearly see why that is during the game, but man were the Bucs stupid), which was great. We obviously have a bunch of things we need to “get right” as a team, with the most important thing being Alex Smith and the passing offense. 

 

Will it ever happen? I’m not sure. And with every week that passes by the hope is diminishing it will. It’s just... anemic. But the cushion, record-wise, is there and we can afford a little more patience now. That’s massive.

 

We’re distancing ourselves from the organizationally pervasive “panic” atmosphere (that Jay has actually overcome very well during his tenure here) where catastrophic decisions are made and the inevitable, total collapse follows. The one that we’ve seen far too many times as fans. 

 

Is the formula (great running game and defense, ball control, win the TO battle, etc...) that got us here sustainable in the modern NFL? Extremely doubtful. It works, you can win, but even the rare teams that pull it off during an entire season too often fall apart the next season, since it’s so hard to maintain the many moving parts in terms of personnel required to do so. 

 

We really do need Alex to improve. We simply paid too much. It’s damn near impossible to win with the amount of resources invested there with the type of production we’re getting now. It was oft-repeated here how moving on from Kirk would mean we could save all that cap space and use it elsewhere to build a stronger team.

 

Well, we moved on and “all this cap space saved” hasn’t resulted in much. Furthermore, we lost a draft pick in a spot we’ve actually been effective in finding players as well as a key young piece on our defense. It’s a minor miracle that we’ve attained a record like this with this type of resource management from our FO. You just don’t see that around the league, few can ever overcome it. I give major credit to the coaches as well as our college scouts for that.

 

But Alex has got to do way more if we’re ever going to truly contend, and that’s a damn shame considering how close we’ve been the last couple years. There are a few big plays to be made every game that he’s missing. They’re easy. The scheme works. Hit those, and suddenly we’ll be rolling. Suddenly, the formula won’t be so one-dimensional and rigid, we’ll be able to succeed in answering the dynamic questions various opponents present. 

 

I’m happy that possibility exists while we’ve got some decent room for error now. How awesome would it be if we really capitalize? 

[Commander -JB-]

Kirk Cousins 5-3-1

Alex Smith 6-3

 

The only numbers that count.