What is Wrong with Alex Smith?

[TheGreek1973]

Still it boggles the mind that a guy that went number one overall, that has been in this league for 13 years, still way overthrows a wide open VDavis when no one is pressuring him while throwing it.  I mean how many thousands of passes has he throwing like this in practice and drills etc.  That shows zero confidence to me at least.  I can't stand this guy, never could  really.  He is so frustrating to watch.

[DJHJR86]

 

 

[skins island connection]

35 minutes ago, TheGreek1973 said:

Still it boggles the mind that a guy that went number one overall, that has been in this league for 13 years, still way overthrows a wide open VDavis when no one is pressuring him while throwing it.  I mean how many thousands of passes has he throwing like this in practice and drills etc.  That shows zero confidence to me at least.  I can't stand this guy, never could  really.  He is so frustrating to watch.

 

 I was very surprised that Smith hit Doctson in the back of the endzone for that TD.

 I was even MORE surprised at how well the o-line performed despite being a patchwork group of guys for the most part. I just knew that Smith would have been creamed all game, but hats off to the o-line coach and to the guys for a job well done.

But yea, when I saw that pass I thought to myself ' about damned time', then watched as the ball sailed over and away from a wiiiiiide open Davis. I shook my head.

 

But then we go back and see Smith vs a weak Bucs defense and only getting 1 TD. This week he'll be facing the Texans d-line, and they are coming off a bye and fresh, ready to wreak havoc. This game could end up a blow-out in their favor.

 

One other thing; I doubt the Bucs are going to keep Jameis Winston. Seeing that pic of Bruce Allen on the field before the game had me wondering if he has ideas on trying to bring that guy here. I hope not. God I hope not.

[Skinsinparadise]

The throw to Vernon Davis was not hot. But I am not going to hang on that one throw. They dont throw deep much and when they do Alex so far doesnt throw it well, even that Richardson complete deep ball weeks back was poorly thrown even by Alex's admission.

 

The passing offense looked lethargic 2 weeeks in a row against 2 of the worst pass defenses in the NFL.  Watching Alex on the bench, if he is this big leader, as some contend, its not in the form of talking to players on the sideline. Colt was the social guy doing that some. And no I am not a Colt guy.

 

The more I watch Alex the more I think the winner label is a bit silly. The better label is develop a really good roster and he wont make it better but will not spoil the party. You take last years roster and schedule and i think this team would look like a disaster with him at the helm.  

 

Great things have to be done by OTHERS for Alex to win. 4 turnovers in the last game or Peterson looks great in another game, etc. 

 

The more I watch him the more I think the dude is limited.  But I will stick up for him on one point which is I got no doubt he would play better with a better supporting cast. While this cast is better than 2017, it still is mediocre. I am not one of the Doctson haters and I think he is coming on. But he is not a Yac guy. You need Yac guys for a checkdown style QB. 

 

Will Colt play better? Not sure. Colt plays with more moxie and guts.  And is more inspiring to watch. He is somewhat like Fitzpatrick, he plays with gumption but without the arm to match. And I think Fitzpatrick is still better than Colt.

 

Finlay said last night, he talked to someone in the coaching staff last night and to quote them, they are pulling their hair out for what Alex continues to miss and leave on the field.  Finlay said in another segment that the coaches are very frustrated with Alex but no talk about starting Colt.

[bobandweave]

Starting Colt ? only this team would look at a 6-3 starting QB and discuss replacing him with a two game first place cushion.

 

This team was 7-9 last season and 8-7-1 the season before and 9-7 the season before. Talk like that should be reserved for 12-14 win teams not a consistently floating around .500 group.

 

Not trying to stifle conversation but if you wonder why Josh Norman wants to play all the games on the road and is calling out the team fans look no further then this. Even when the teams rocking the standings some will complain no matter what. 

 

And who is Colt McCoy anyway? He ain’t started an NFL game since 2014 and is 2 years younger then Alex, no spring chicken. What would the expectation be if they destroyed the good feelings around here and started him? 

[Skinsinparadise]

16 minutes ago, bobandweave said:

Starting Colt ? only this team would look at a 6-3 starting QB and discuss replacing him with a two game first place cushion.

 

This team was 7-9 last season and 8-7-1 the season before and 9-7 the season before. Talk like that should be reserved for 12-14 win teams not a consistently floating around .500 group.

 

Not trying to stifle conversation but if you wonder why Josh Norman wants to play all the games on the road and is calling out the team fans look no further then this. Even when the teams rocking the standings some will complain no matter what. 

 

And who is Colt McCoy anyway? He ain’t started an NFL game since 2014 and is 2 years younger then Alex, no spring chicken. What would the expectation be if they destroyed the good feelings around here and started him? 

 

I am not in the camp of starting Colt.  Just a couple of thoughts.

 

1. When 3 different beat guys have said the coaching staff is privately frustrated and disapponited by Alex's play. Even D. Hall who consults for the FO has been ripping Alex.  Whats your take about that?  Maybe their sources are leading them astray (though the claim they are talking to them directly) but the vibe they are giving isnt thst the coaches are privately delighted and calling Alex a winner. They seem to think that the passing game is the teams weakness and are scrambiling for how to fix it. My point is the coaching staff seem at odds with the selling Alex as a key part of these wins.

 

2. How do u think Alex would have done with last years roster? No Peterson and an atrocious defense? In other words, a roster he would have to carry?

[bobandweave]

1. The last four games that Alex has thrown for under 200 yards the teams won the game. Reason I bring that up is that lots of QBs aren’t airing it out this weekend. Aaron Rodgers, Cam Newton, Andy Dalton, Russel Wilson all threw under 200 yards yesterday. Don’t see fans screaming for QB changes do you? Maybe if there was a Pat Mahomes on the bench waiting in the wings I would feel diff but we don’t.

 

The trade deadlines past so the only option of adding to the QB room is a guy on the street. That makes no sense. If Kirk had led them to 6-3 last season instead of winning the 6th game of last season a month after Alex won it he would have still been here. He’s gone so no sense in worrying about the what if’s 

 

The narrative that Kirk is so much better then Alex is nonsense and a false story. I’ve posted a snapshot of the twos stats from 8 games last week and they aren’t much diff except there was a whole lot more turnovers.

 

Instead of being happy that they are ahead of where anyone thought they would be after 10 weeks this fan base wants to move on. Why? Because Alex isn’t perfect and misses some throws. All QBs do that and there are no perfect QBs in the league. The results matter more then stats. At least to me they do. Others just complain because they are negative

 

2. Does it matter? Last season Kirk didn’t win 6 games until week 15!!

 

If you value stats more then team wins then you would miss Kirk. If team wins matter more then you will appreciate Alex. Is it pretty wins? No but they are winning. After being nothing since 1993 why would we give a damn about pretty wins? Just win and give us happy Monday’s that’s all I ask for and Alex is delivering.

 

Can he do better? Yes no question, but this team is 5 weeks ahead of where it was last season so why **** about things not being perfect. If anyone hasn’t been paying attention ya boy Kirk is still doing the same things in another state he did here. Somethings don’t change. And Alex is still doing what he did elsewhere, showing up on the win column

[Butters20]

Alex looked good, dynamic and dangerous during a two minute offense yesterday. But when he's not in a rush, he doesn't take any chances. 

 

 

[Butters20]

Well, the team knew what they were getting in Alex Smith. And bow with a lot of our offense hurt, they are "pulling their hair out" because he can't carry the offense. He was never that guy, news flash. 

 

If we can get Thomspon and Crowder back, I think he'll have a bit of his safety net and will look a bit better. Not expecting any 300 yard outings though. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

So now that B&W has been given the nod to say ‘Kirk’ even though he was never told not to, it’s Kirk, Kirk, Kirk, Kirk, Kirk, Kirk. ?

 

Talking about “Alex Smith’s record” after he just put up 16 on the worst defense in football, against an offense that set a record for having 1pt per 160 yards of offense after missing numerous FGs and turning it over 4 times.  

 

I’ll give Alex this, he’s Larry Michaels “Skinstangibles” brought to life.  Dude literally puts you to sleep looking like a vet minimum QB, yet somehow some way the team ends up victorious.

[OVCChairman]

20 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I am not in the camp of starting Colt.  Just a couple of thoughts.

 

1. When 3 different beat guys have said the coaching staff is privately frustrated and disapponited by Alex's play. Even D. Hall who consults for the FO has been ripping Alex.  Whats your take about that?  Maybe their sources are leading them astray (though the claim they are talking to them directly) but the vibe they are giving isnt thst the coaches are privately delighted and calling Alex a winner. They seem to think that the passing game is the teams weakness and are scrambiling for how to fix it. My point is the coaching staff seem at odds with the selling Alex as a key part of these wins.

 

2. How do u think Alex would have done with last years roster? No Peterson and an atrocious defense? In other words, a roster he would have to carry?

 

Just for the sake of conversation... I'm also not in the camp of benching Alex, but I am frustrated with the missed opportunities.  I rationalized the issues with timing when he missed easy throws early on, but missing Davis yesterday was bad.  That ball can't be missed there.  I don't want to hear (not necessarily from you) the justification that he was making the safe placed throw because that defender was not going to make a play.  Davis was so wide open he could have lollipopped it and let Davis run under it.

 

1.  I personally think the frustration that the FO has with Smith is because it's looking bad on them.  Gruden's job hinges on this season, in my opinion, and bad QB play does not look good on him.  Gruden was brought in to be a QB guru... and he does not have a good track record here.  Kirk is a quality starter in this league, but it's appears that he is who he is, and it's not because of Gruden.   In fact, Kirk struggled here mentally in certain aspects of the QB position.  Now upper management is looking at Alex Smith coming in, a guy who's got a proven track record, and he's struggling in this offense.  Gruden had no problem airing out his frustrations with previous QBs, so it would not shock me if he was shining more light than probably necessary on Alex's shortcomings this season.   

 

As bad as Alex has looked, Gruden also isn't doing him any favors offensively.  I understand wanting to establish your identity and maintain an offense, but it seems like he goes into a game and is one extreme or the other.  We ran a screen to Bibbs that went for 40 and got called back for holding.  I don't think I saw that play again the whole game.   In the first quarter we ran a toss play to AP and got 6... coulda been more.  The rest of the game we were running between the tackles except when AP jump-cuts and breaks contain.  If Tampa's defense has ANY strength, it's Gerald McCoy on the interior of the line.  Why aren't we rolling Alex out more?  Getting him moving the pocket?  He's not a timing QB... stop being rigid and forcing him to sit in the pocket 95% of the time and make reads.  Maybe you're not happy that they brought in a QB that's not perfect for your system, but it's not always about being right.  Lets be flexible and try to get the most of Smith, instead of trying to force Smith to get the most of your system.   I like the gameplan of controlling the ball, maintaining the clock (or attempting to), keeping your defense fresh and preventing a short field... but like others have said, we leave a lot on the field... Alex leaves a bit out there, but Gruden does as well. 

 

2.  I have very little confidence in what he would have done on last years team... but I feel like the offense was different last year.  I don't think he's the type of QB that can completely carry a team, thank god were not asking him to carry us.  What hes is doing is valuable for the defense and run game though as he's conservative with the ball.  We're not giving opposing offenses short fields, which helps the defense.  The defense this year is much better than we've had in years past, that's very evident... but the offense does deserve some credit by not handing them the ball on our side of the field.  

[Skinsinparadise]

This isnt all directed to bobandweave, just venting a little frustration on the topic.

 

Comparing a team with a weak running game and weak defense to one with a strong defense and strong running game is a bit crazy IMO. Because in effect it suggests Robert Kelley versus Adrian Peterson who cares, same thing. Ziggy Hood at nose tackle versus Daron Payne, same thing. On and on.

 

I said in the off season Alex would be a slight downgrade from Kirk. I was wrong. Looks like a big downgrade. I was right though that Peterson would be way better than Kelley. I thought the defense if healthy would way better than last year, too. Right about that, too.

 

After wins, you hardly ever hear, wow Alex saved us with this play or that. Its just about always someone else, peterson, swearinger, norman, etc. 

 

And some like to suggest Alex has been good we are missing it because not causing turnovers is the be all and all. My response to that is if it were the be all and all, conservative qbs like Alex should be headed straight to the hall of fame. Obviously thats not going down. Its a bigger deal IMO to be able to move the ball, and it doesnt have to be one wild extreme to another like Alex on one spectrum and Rex on another.

 

The kicker to me is beat guys have suggested the coaches are frustrated and not mildly so but very so.

 

But i do agree, Colt isnt a hot choice. I do think Alex has played slightly better in the last 2 games so maybe more improvement is coming. And his passing weapons while better than last year are still meh. So I dont think its a lost cause.

 

So I am not counting Alex out like some. But I am hardcore that he hasnt been good so far. That has nothing to do with Kirk that has to do with the whole NFL. Alex on most stats has been among the bottom dwellers in the NFL. And it looks it, too.  People can say Alex doesnt do stats.  But the narrative i hear the most about Alex from people who sell him is 2017 is his new normal, everything before that doesnt mean nearly as much. Well, Alex killed it statistically in 2017..

 

 

 

[JoeJacobyHOForRIOT]

27 minutes ago, Butters20 said:

Alex looked good, dynamic and dangerous during a two minute offense yesterday. But when he's not in a rush, he doesn't take any chances. 

 

 

Right which tells me coaching staff is having Alex play very conservatively and focusing on not turning the ball over. Ball control, don't turn it over and let the defense win the game, has worked well so far. With that said there is NO EXCUSE for the half dozen or so wide open misses on deep routes Smith has missed this season, Vernon Davis being the most recent yesterday.

 

The real question is are we 6-3  because of Alex Smith stingyness with not turning the ball over and playing so vanilla or are we 6-3 in spite of Alex Smith's conservative vanilla play ? Thats the real question here.

[Captain James]

11 hours ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

With Alex it's basically you get a glass that's exactly half full.

He does just enough to get you the win, the majority of the time.

Believe it or not, there are some starting QB's in this league who would find a way to lose some of our games that we won.

And teams of Redskins' past also would have found a way to lose some of those games, too.

Alex and this team just "know how to win" and he has the poise to accomplish it. Can't say that AP did it all on his own this time, because we won with only 68 yards and 3.6 ypc from AP today. Even if you're not puttin up huge stats, you at least want ball control, and pace, meaning at least eat up some clock. He did that too, with a T.O.P. comparable to the Bucs, despite all their long drives.

4-1 over the last 5 games ain't bad.

Them are just the facts.

So if Alex is who he is and cannot adjust his game whatsoever, then all of the pressure is on coaching to adjust/mold the entire scheme around him. SOMEONE has to adjust so that we can keep this train rolling.

[KDawg]

2 minutes ago, CaptainJames2004 said:

So if Alex is who he is and cannot adjust his game whatsoever, then all of the pressure is on coaching to adjust/mold the entire scheme around him. SOMEONE has to adjust so that we can keep this train rolling.

 

I feel like they did adjust yesterday in the second half. That's a huge milestone for a lot of reasons:

 

1) Since when have the Skins changed anything in the second half... ever

 

2) Smith played the second half yesterday much better than he's played any other half of football with taking calculated risks.

[Captain James]

Just now, KDawg said:

 

I feel like they did adjust yesterday in the second half. That's a huge milestone for a lot of reasons:

 

1) Since when have the Skins changed anything in the second half... ever

 

2) Smith played the second half yesterday much better than he's played any other half of football with taking calculated risks.

Do you feel it was an adjustment by both, just the playcalling, or just the way Smith played?

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, CaptainJames2004 said:

Do you feel it was an adjustment by both, just the playcalling, or just the way Smith played?

 

I'm not sure Smith changes much. I think the tofu QB label is perfect for him. He takes on the shape of the offense. I think Gruden called plays to get the ball out of his hands quicker, and with the quicker tempo he had less time to think. So I guess in a way that's a change in how he plays. But I credit the coaching with making adjustments to their player.

[Skinsinparadise]

6 hours ago, OVCChairman said:

 

 

1.  I personally think the frustration that the FO has with Smith is because it's looking bad on them.  Gruden's job hinges on this season, in my opinion, and bad QB play does not look good on him.  Gruden was brought in to be a QB guru... and he does not have a good track record here.  Kirk is a quality starter in this league, but it's appears that he is who he is, and it's not because of Gruden.   In fact, Kirk struggled here mentally in certain aspects of the QB position.  Now upper management is looking at Alex Smith coming in, a guy who's got a proven track record, and he's struggling in this offense.  Gruden had no problem airing out his frustrations with previous QBs, so it would not shock me if he was shining more light than probably necessary on Alex's shortcomings this season.   

 

As bad as Alex has looked, Gruden also isn't doing him any favors offensively.  I understand wanting to establish your identity and maintain an offense, but it seems like he goes into a game and is one extreme or the other.  We ran a screen to Bibbs that went for 40 and got called back for holding.  

 

 

I agree as to moving the pocket more. Tough for me to give Jay a hard time though because this offense is getting people open and Alex is missing them or not throwing to them way to often. I showed some clips on Alex threads.

 

I think the debate on the subject can get complex, easy to throw different premises that make sense to some and not others where variables are treated the same even though they are quite different.

 

IMO these variables 

 

A. 2017 roster and 2018 roster same thing or not.

B. 2017 schedule and 2018 schedule the same or not

C. Can you win games and have team weaknesses or is everything celebrated as good with no highlights or lowlights

D. Whats the prime role of a qb?

 

To me Alex isnt a disaster. But he is leading the weak point of this team. If people want to make the case that he isnt playing well but its better to have a mediocre qb who doesnt throw picks when your defense plays well versus a mediocre qb who throws picks like Rex, i can go on that ride. But no one can convince me that this play from Alex is good and he is why they are winning and we want more of this. We've seen what happens when the defense doesnt lead the way. He has played as ive said slightly better in the last 2 weeks so not giving up that it can improve more.

 

[Llevron]

 

27 minutes ago, JoeJacobyHOForRIOT said:

Right which tells me coaching staff is having Alex play very conservatively and focusing on not turning the ball over. Ball control, don't turn it over and let the defense win the game, has worked well so far. With that said there is NO EXCUSE for the half dozen or so wide open misses on deep routes Smith has missed this season, Vernon Davis being the most recent yesterday.

 

The real question is are we 6-3  because of Alex Smith stingyness with not turning the ball over and playing so vanilla or are we 6-3 in spite of Alex Smith's conservative vanilla play ? Thats the real question here.

 

The unfortunate answer is a little bit if both. He really does help by not turning that ball over and letting the run game do its thing. He hurts by not helping in any other way at all. 

 

We need a better QB. And we cant get one. Hes the best we have and and its annoying. But I hope and pray we pull a KC and use him to build a roster that just needs a QB in 2 years and then drops his ass. 

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, Llevron said:

 

 

The unfortunate answer is a little bit if both. He really does help by not turning that ball over and letting the run game do its thing. He hurts by not helping in any other way at all. 

 

 

 

This is perfectly worded. Agreed completely.

[profusion]

The backup QB is always the most popular guy in Washington (going back at least to Billy/Sonny), but no, they're not going to make a change at 6-3.

 

That said, the insane talent level in KC last year masked Alex's problems, just as it's making Mahomes look better than he really is this year.

 

I didn't watch Alex that much early in his career, but his passes this year have the look of a guy who's close to being done. Lack of touch and wildly inaccurate way too often. From what i've read, that's the sign of a QB whose legs are going and who starts "throwing with his arm" to compensate.

[clskinsfan]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I am not in the camp of starting Colt.  Just a couple of thoughts.

 

1. When 3 different beat guys have said the coaching staff is privately frustrated and disapponited by Alex's play. Even D. Hall who consults for the FO has been ripping Alex.  Whats your take about that?  Maybe their sources are leading them astray (though the claim they are talking to them directly) but the vibe they are giving isnt thst the coaches are privately delighted and calling Alex a winner. They seem to think that the passing game is the teams weakness and are scrambiling for how to fix it. My point is the coaching staff seem at odds with the selling Alex as a key part of these wins.

 

2. How do u think Alex would have done with last years roster? No Peterson and an atrocious defense? In other words, a roster he would have to carry?

 

Well I think it is pretty obvious to everyone that Alex has not played great. And I am one of his biggest defenders on this board. The funny thing is he hasnt had to play great to get us to 6-3. He has managed the game decently. Now I am sure that frustrates the coaches as much as the fans. But it is tough to call out a guy as a coach when you are 6-3 and have a 2 game lead in the division at the halfway point of the season. 

 

I think Alex will get better as the season progresses. We have to remember this is a guy who played in basically the same west coast system for his entire career. Andy added some option stuff over the past couple years. But generally he has run the west coast offense with a ton of running exclusively. Jay's offense is based on the west coast. But there are some big differences in the depth of routes. The deep ball is a huge part of what Jay likes to do. And Alex struggles with that, which is why I was kind of surprised they went and got him. Maybe they thought it finally clicked with him last year in KC as far as throwing deep goes? 

[Llevron]

24 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

But it is tough to call out a guy as a coach when you are 6-3 and have a 2 game lead in the division at the halfway point of the season. 

 

Just wanna point out that I think a good coach would still call him out and hold him accountable. I believe Jay Gruden is doing that, too. You have to let him know he needs to be better, cause if hes not eventually it will end our season. 

 

I dont know if you watch the Wiz, but Brooks wouldn't call out Alex and just let it keep going. That's why they are what they are now. A group of super talented losers. I think more than anything accountability is the job of a coach. 

[TD_washingtonredskins]

I'll reiterate something that I've said over the past couple weeks...

 

I've come to terms with the philosophy of the passing game. We aren't going hurt ourselves and that will continue to keep the defense in great situations. Fine. There aren't going to be a lot of 50/50 balls or tight windows. I'm realizing how that is a contributing factor to the 6-3 start. 

 

What I need to see is when there are open guys and time in the pocket, Smith needs to hit more often. The Sprinkle TD, the Vernon deep shot, Doctson streaking down the seam a couple weeks back...all of those need to be automatic because all they require is a semi-accurate throw. If you combine this philosophy with a few more hits like that and 170/1 TD turns into 250/2 TDs and 16-17 points turns into 23-27 points. If we start doing that, then we go from a team who might win a down division to a tough out in the playoffs. 

[Taylor 36]

6 hours ago, -JB- said:

Kirk Cousins 5-3-1

Alex Smith 6-3

 

The only numbers that count.

Bull ****!  Reality:

 

Vikings 5 -3-1

Redskins 6-3.

 

IF this was all about the QB play, Alex wouldn't even be in the competition, never mind the conversation.