petey hodge

Does Doctson even care?

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4 hours ago, desertbeagle85 said:

 

No it doesn't 

 

When did he admit to that? After his career was over. Sounds like a excuse to me as to why he sucked his last few years. Either way Jason Taylor hall of fame. Josh Doctson not so much. 

 

Just because he didn't play well here doesn't make those two players even close to comparable. 

His hall of fame speech..gosh I can't remember..I just remember him saying he took Snyder's money..I get your point... completely agree too...Josh doctson has a don't give a **** my way or the highway attitude that needs to send him packing..as to where j Taylor was just more of a slap in the face disrespectful move to play here for a year or whatever it was to add more $ to his retirement plan.

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I dont understand why people think Docston doesnt care....his problem isnt that he doesnt care its that hes simply not very good, he cant run routes well enough to get any kind of separation hes a 50/50 ball catcher def not someone you pick up a $10000000 option for... 

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11 hours ago, bakedtater1 said:

Sooo..silly question...will he be on the roster this year?

 

Of course he will be, silly. :)

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If Doctson breaks out and gets a mega-contract elsewhere, the Skins get a 3rd round comp pick. If je continues to suck, he signs a cheap contract elsewhere, and maybe the Skins get a 7th round comp pick. We pick up his option and he gets hurt, his contract + Alex Smith's means cap hell. We pick up his option and he continues to suck, we cut him and no comp pick.

Not picking up the option was the right move.

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I would have been ok either way, injury is always a concern but he really hasn't been injured for 2 years.  If for some reason he blows up this year it would have given us one more year with him before we let him hit free agency but I guess we are confident with some of the guys we have here and have drafted this year.

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44 minutes ago, SkinsGuy said:

 

Of course he will be, silly. :)

Hey now..I didn't say I was silly hahaha jk..well that's no good..by the skins not picking up his option does that say the skins are guaranteed to release him the next season?..

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Posted (edited)

What other teams didn't pick up the 5th year option on players? Pitt - CB Burns, Tenn - OT Conklin, NO - CB, Apple, Bills - DL, Lawson, Minn - WR, Treadwell. Would you trade Doctson for any of those guys? Fresh starts for guys on last year of their rookie deals.

Edited by @SkinsGoldPants

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2 hours ago, Riggo-toni said:

If Doctson breaks out and gets a mega-contract elsewhere, the Skins get a 3rd round comp pick. If je continues to suck, he signs a cheap contract elsewhere, and maybe the Skins get a 7th round comp pick. We pick up his option and he gets hurt, his contract + Alex Smith's means cap hell. We pick up his option and he continues to suck, we cut him and no comp pick.

Not picking up the option was the right move.

I have a better chance of getting a threesome with Kate Upton and Jennifer Lawrence than Doctson does of getting a mega contract somewhere else.

 

After three years of mediocrity(and yes 2016 does count)he is what he is: a big slow WR with bad hands who can't get open.

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, bakedtater1 said:

Hey now..I didn't say I was silly hahaha jk..well that's no good..by the skins not picking up his option does that say the skins are guaranteed to release him the next season?..

 

Nope.

 

It just means they aren't guaranteeing Docston anything beyond this season. He will become an unrestricted free agent when this year is over.

 

However, if they like what they see from him, the Redskins can work out a new deal with him after this season.

 

Provided Docston wants to stay here.

Edited by SkinsGuy
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19 hours ago, bakedtater1 said:

Sooo..silly question...will he be on the roster this year?

 

8 hours ago, SkinsGuy said:

 

Of course he will be, silly. :)

 

Perhaps he will, but the question remains, which one of these WR's will not make the team ?

I am only listing the ones that I believe have either a good or a very good chance of making the team, so I actually left out quite a few (that still have some chance).

And out of the ones that have a good or very good chance (or better) of making the team, the total of them out numbers the likely roster spots we save for WR.

So, which of these WR's do you see not making it, since we can't keep all of these ?

 

Doctson

Richardson

Quinn

R. Davis

Sims

McLaurin

Harmon

Chesson (he's probably the least likely on this list, but being a great ST player has that going for him)

 

But even if you don't include Chesson and assume one of the other guys takes his place on ST, we still may cut 1 or 2 of the other guys.

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Totally fine not picking up the option. With it being guaranteed for injury there is 0 chance I take that risk...

also hope he wakes up and breaks out,

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Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, CjSuAvE22 said:

I dont understand why people think Docston doesnt care....his problem isnt that he doesnt care its that hes simply not very good, he cant run routes well enough to get any kind of separation hes a 50/50 ball catcher def not someone you pick up a $10000000 option for... 

 

Please do tell how an inefficient QB is going to make a WR look? You are looking at his target vs. catches. Did you not watch all the game last year. The balls that were thrown to him were either over his head or at his feet. I am pretty sure NO WR in the NFL will be able to catch balls that are overthrown or under-thrown. So yeah the targeted stats skews his %. He is not as bad as you think he is.

 

Don't take this as I am defending Doctson and blah blah blah... just pointing out what happened last year with 4 different QB throwing to him and had no chemistry with him. QB and WR have to have chemistry and timing down or else it is not going to make both of them very successful together.

 

 

Edited by zskins
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14 hours ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

 

Perhaps he will, but the question remains, which one of these WR's will not make the team ?

I am only listing the ones that I believe have either a good or a very good chance of making the team, so I actually left out quite a few (that still have some chance).

And out of the ones that have a good or very good chance (or better) of making the team, the total of them out numbers the likely roster spots we save for WR.

So, which of these WR's do you see not making it, since we can't keep all of these ?

 

Doctson

Richardson

Quinn

R. Davis

Sims

McLaurin

Harmon

Chesson (he's probably the least likely on this list, but being a great ST player has that going for him)

 

But even if you don't include Chesson and assume one of the other guys takes his place on ST, we still may cut 1 or 2 of the other guys.

Richardson was beginning to win me over with the way he fought for balls and toughed through games. Quinn flashed as a rookie. I develop a preseason crush on Robert Davis every year it seems. There's a big question as to whether any of the three can stay on the field though.


I'll argue that I saw Doctson coming on last year and even that he demonstrated some fire with fist pumps and screams on the field. He hasn't lived up to a first round billing, but he looked like he belonged out there. What worries me most is that every qb we have had Cousins, Smith, Sanchez, and Johnson fails to target him regularly. Why is that? Is he that bad at gaining separation? Is he a lazy route runner? So, while i think Doctson has elevated himself to okay, like everyone else it's hard to imagine him taking that next jump to star receiver.

 

I don't yet have an opinion on Sims or Chesson. The rookies read well, but we have to see it on the field.

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Posted (edited)
On 4/29/2019 at 7:48 AM, goskins10 said:

 

I am glad you brought this up. It shows people like yourself still do not get it. 

 

There are two different things here. One is his production, which is fair. He has not produced. And no where is my comment did I suggest he did or suggest that being critical of his production is a problem. I will ignore the fact tat he has yet to have a QB that will throw to him outside Colt and his numbers went up. But let's just put that aside and say his lack of production is 100% on him. Lets say his game just does not translate to the NFL - still possible and honestly looking probable. 

The problem is, and the point of the post is that for some reason fans like yourself cannot focus on just data and results. There has to be something personal about it. Complaining about his heart and commitment is off base. His teammates and coaches say the exact opposite. Chris Cooley said one time very early on he thought that was a problem then recanted saying he misjudged Doctson. But those that didn't like the pick have decided to make their own minds up. "Just work harder!" is the refrain. If all it took was hard work there would be a lot more great players. 

 

Lack of production does not mean he is not trying or working as hard as he can. He is a fairly shy guy so he is not going to be overly demonstrative. In fact, with his lack of production, should he be whopping it up for each catch like he just won the Superbowl? People trash WRs on other teams for being overly demonstrative and then when a guy doesn't jump around like a lunatic he has no heart. I have implored people to look at his story of how he got to be a 1st rd pick - and make no mistake had the Redskins not taken him in the 1st someone else was. This is not a kid with a lack of heart or dedication. 

 

It is more than fair to be critical of his lack of production. However, I will continue to push back against questioning his heart and desire. His game just may not translate. But to question his heart and desire as the reason is again way off base. It's predetermined narrative without basis in fact if you are to believe his teammates and coaches who should know and if you know his entire story. 

 

i don't get it?   A first round draft pick expected to make an impact has 81 catches for 1,100 in 3 seasons.  This game is about production, period, and he has simply not produced.  It it speculation that he has demonstrated little heart?  Of course, just as you are totally speculating that he has given 100% dedication to his craft.

 

So far the evidence is on my side so it's unfair of you to call me out like this. He has demonstrating route running that can be only described as lazy, he does not appear to fight for the 50/50 balls the way it's needed, has simply not show Gary Clark effort every second he is on the field.   Reporters seem to notice while some guys are constantly talking football and live and breath this stuff this does not necessarily seem to be the case with Josh.   It is unfair to claim he was not hurt but a whole lot of people were questioning his desire when he failed to come back from an injury that the doctors did not consider that serious.  Measuring heart is not done by who spins the ball after a completion and who does not.

 

Again I'm speculating on his heart but I have to remind you that you are as well. 

 

 

Edited by Darrell Green Fan
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1 hour ago, Burgold said:

Why is that? Is he that bad at gaining separation? Is he a lazy route runner? 

I think that defenses believe he is our best receiver and he probably is. They therefore put their best corner and likely bracket him with a safety. But because Doctson isnt a top 10 good, he is overmatched. Then, couple that with mediocre QB play and voila!  Pedestrian numbers. 

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17 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

i don't get it?   A first round draft pick expected to make an impact has 81 catches for 1,100 in 3 seasons.  This game is about production, period, and he has simply not produced.  It it speculation that he has demonstrated little heart?  Of course, just as you are totally speculating that he has given 100% dedication to his craft.

 

So far the evidence is on my side so it's unfair of you to call me out like this. He has demonstrating route running that can be only described as lazy, he does not appear to fight for the 50/50 balls the way it's needed, has simply not show Gary Clark effort every second he is on the field.   Reporters seem to notice while some guys are constantly talking football and live and breath this stuff this does not necessarily seem to be the case with Josh.   It is unfair to claim he was not hurt but a whole lot of people were questioning his desire when he failed to come back from an injury that the doctors did not consider that serious.  Measuring heart is not done by who spins the ball after a completion and who does not.

 

Again I'm speculating on his heart but I have to remind you that you are as well. 

 

 

 

So this started with you using my comment to make your point. I simply responded in kind. If you feel that is "calling you out" I do apologize for that, and maybe i could have worded it differently. I do not ever mean anything to be personal. But in fairness you can't expect to reference my comment and then me just ignore it. I will defend my position. 

 

To the point of my response, what I feel you and others are continuing to conflate are in fact two very different things: 

 

Heart, effort, intent, hard work being one, and production being the other. There is a false notion in our society as a whole that you just need to work harder. No matter how hard I try I will never be 6'6" with a 34" vertical leap so I will never be in the NBA. It does no matter how hard I work. 

 

And you have no idea the research I have put into this young man. Multiple interviews with him, his family, his coaches (including High School), watched hours of film of his work in college. I have spent close to 50 hours researching him. There have also been several reports from the Redskins players that this idea that Josh has no heart and is not working hard enough is just not true, including the big mouth who started it all, Chris Cooley who has since recanted that position. But with social media you can't take it back. So while we may both be speculating, I can promise you the amount of speculation on my part is very small. You can choose to not believe that, and that's fine. But I think you have seen enough of what I post to know I do not make things up. I may be wrong but i do not just make it up. 

 

No one knows how much pain he was actually in but him. And in the end the doctors admitted he was misdiagnosed to begin with. And that his injury was real. I choose to take him at his word. You do not, and that's your right. Fair enough. Again, a guy with no heart does not modify his own shoe during a game to play through pain. I guy with no heart does not work on his blocking to the point even his coaches are praising him for the improvement. There were several big plays last year that were directly due to Josh blocking. 

 

I agree his production has been less than what we should expect from a 1st rd draft pick, much less. And although I could see an argument for picking up the 5th year option, I also fully understand the justification for not picking it up and have I no problem with it. If he simply matches last years production he needs to be let go. He is not worth it to the team. 

 

But I maintain that his lack of production it is not because of heart, but because his game does not translate, be it physically or mentally. But that does not mean he is not trying. 

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26 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

So this started with you using my comment to make your point. I simply responded in kind. If you feel that is "calling you out" I do apologize for that, and maybe i could have worded it differently. I do not ever mean anything to be personal. But in fairness you can't expect to reference my comment and then me just ignore it. I will defend my position. 

 

To the point of my response, what I feel you and others are continuing to conflate are in fact two very different things: 

 

Heart, effort, intent, hard work being one, and production being the other. There is a false notion in our society as a whole that you just need to work harder. No matter how hard I try I will never be 6'6" with a 34" vertical leap so I will never be in the NBA. It does no matter how hard I work. 

 

And you have no idea the research I have put into this young man. Multiple interviews with him, his family, his coaches (including High School), watched hours of film of his work in college. I have spent close to 50 hours researching him. There have also been several reports from the Redskins players that this idea that Josh has no heart and is not working hard enough is just not true, including the big mouth who started it all, Chris Cooley who has since recanted that position. But with social media you can't take it back. So while we may both be speculating, I can promise you the amount of speculation on my part is very small. You can choose to not believe that, and that's fine. But I think you have seen enough of what I post to know I do not make things up. I may be wrong but i do not just make it up. 

 

No one knows how much pain he was actually in but him. And in the end the doctors admitted he was misdiagnosed to begin with. And that his injury was real. I choose to take him at his word. You do not, and that's your right. Fair enough. Again, a guy with no heart does not modify his own shoe during a game to play through pain. I guy with no heart does not work on his blocking to the point even his coaches are praising him for the improvement. There were several big plays last year that were directly due to Josh blocking. 

 

I agree his production has been less than what we should expect from a 1st rd draft pick, much less. And although I could see an argument for picking up the 5th year option, I also fully understand the justification for not picking it up and have I no problem with it. If he simply matches last years production he needs to be let go. He is not worth it to the team. 

 

But I maintain that his lack of production it is not because of heart, but because his game does not translate, be it physically or mentally. But that does not mean he is not trying. 

 

I didn't take your comment personally.  I'm simply pointing out you appear to be basing your opinion on facts when it's really just an opinion, just as mine is.  I"m not claiming his lack of desire is causing the lack of results, as you say maybe his game simply does not translate to the professional game. It happens all the time even with 1st round talent.  I'm just going by the body language I have seen and it's simply not the same as when i watch other players in a lot of instances.  

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Bumping this thread to put up an interview Docston did with John Keim:

 

https://www.espn.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/38665/redskins-wr-josh-doctson-i-think-im-hitting-free-agency-next-year

 

What does everyone think of Docston's comments?

 

Is he someone that comes off as at peace with his situation and determined?

 

Or does Docston come off as disinterested and unmotivated?

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21 minutes ago, SkinsGuy said:

Bumping this thread to put up an interview Docston did with John Keim:

 

https://www.espn.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/38665/redskins-wr-josh-doctson-i-think-im-hitting-free-agency-next-year

 

What does everyone think of Docston's comments?

 

Is he someone that comes off as at peace with his situation and determined?

 

Or does Docston come off as disinterested and unmotivated?

 

Im sure I’ll be in the minority but I like what I’m hearing. I’ve seen too many flashes from him to give up hope. I actually wouldn’t have been opposed to picking up the option, bc I think next year he will be much more productive with Keenum at the helm. I’m sure what he said will turn a lot of people off, but I appreciate that he’s getting his mind right and in a good place in a productive way. Probably could have phrased the free agency part a bit differently though.

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I honestly don't know what's in his head, but that's not the message I'd have put out there. I would've just said that im focused on 2019, and leaving everything else in their hands

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2 hours ago, SkinsGuy said:

Bumping this thread to put up an interview Docston did with John Keim:

 

https://www.espn.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/38665/redskins-wr-josh-doctson-i-think-im-hitting-free-agency-next-year

 

What does everyone think of Docston's comments?

 

Is he someone that comes off as at peace with his situation and determined?

 

Or does Docston come off as disinterested and unmotivated?

 

To me it just comes off as him being as peace with it. He knows the situation and accepts it. I doubt that means he isn't going to try hard this season or anything. He's never been a super fiery "RAH RAH" guy but by pretty much every account I've heard and read he's a very hard worker and a good teammate. 

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On 5/2/2019 at 9:38 AM, Warhead36 said:

I have a better chance of getting a threesome with Kate Upton and Jennifer Lawrence than Doctson does of getting a mega contract somewhere else.

I’ve been with each of them individually. Not at the same time.

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This is simply a 1st round pick,that because of injury or lack of skill, hasn't lived up up the hype and realizes it.  Maybe if he sees this as a contract year  he will find a way on the field and contribute.  I'd love to see him bust out and be a #1, but I don't see that happening.  We still don't have a true #1 WR so he has plenty of opportunity.

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