bedlamVR Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 I am sorry if the Moderators feel this could be merged into another topic - But the question i am kind of asking - is now - when we see the roster in its fullest and we get an idea of the kind of team we might have - pragmatically is this a win now season ? Now there are going to be a number of people "to keep this thread real" and will tell me we will never win with this particular FO or owner or climate or brand of beer.... but when this off-season started a lot of the talk was about Jay Gruden and how hot his seat was becoming and how this - THIS was going to be a win now season - And yes you can say with a 94 million $ QB that cost us a promising up and comer at CB and a third round pick then we are in code RED must win right now or our fingers will drop off kind of statement..... but look closer at that contract then looking at the cap hit (18.4 million this year, - it creeps over 21.4 in two years time) - Terry Bridgewater who hadn't played in 2 year signed a $6 million deal to be essentially a No3. - and the saints traded a 3rd round pick for a guy to be a back up for a year) - what i am saying is for a competent starter then that is not silly money - We then went out and supplemented our win now veteran QB with a very young Paul Richardson on a middling FA contract - and - erm no one else of note on offence - The entire free agency period the front office seemed enamoured with the potential of 'compensatory picks' like they were a new thing that only just happened. We signed no one - a very unredskins offseason - even by recent standards....I think we signed a punter who didn't make it to camp... In the draft we went with the safe pick in Payne- not the splash and while we were able to recoup a third round pick we spent it on a project for a position that we were the starters are already pretty good - but a clear future pick - The only excitement came from Guice - and he is out for the season with a torn ACL -( which you have to say was the most minor looking injury on the field you could have with such devastating consequences) - Now - while Payne should and probably will be the star of this this years crop - the guy who excites me in the class - is Mr Irrelevent - Trey Quinn - with his larger than life personality shining through. Also weirdly for a coach and FO on its final warnings - they were also able to spend future draft capital - which was only a 6th round pick in the end for Adonis - but again if we are not expecting these guys back UNLESS they WIN and WIN NOW - then should they be so free and easy with next years draft picks ? And finally you look at the make up of the roster - We are not exactly veteran heavy are we ? - I mean in the defensive line group - even with Ziggy Hood in the line up the average age of the group is 24 - After Hood Loannidis is the the next most experienced guy we have in that entire group and he has been in the league 3 years... the WRs is just over 24 and the most experienced guy in the room in terms of time in the league is Richardson - in terms of games played is Crowder - The DB group (S and CBs) - the average age is just over 24 and the average time in the league (counting this year btw) is 2.7 years So what is the point i am getting at here - other than 24 keeps cropping up - is it is a very young and very inexperienced team at a lot of key areas. - the kind of team you want to build from - not push all your chips into the middle with... And sure you could argue there is more age and experience at other spots (QB for example is 33 average age and 11.5 years NFL experience between them) but most of the age and experience is not with the starters ( in positions other than QB i mean) - if you look at the offensive line - two back ups Ty Nsekhe and Tony Bergstrom are older than any of the starters... Even Jays language of late seems to be a lot less - code red and more - well under the radar - more code mauve - or beige perhaps ? Now don't get me wrong here - I think every season the supper bowl has to be the ultimate goal - there is no point playing for anything less - but this team looks like a bunch of guys ready to be the noisy neighbours to state their intent rather than - even in the eyes of the most homeristic fans an exciting and dynamic on the verge of a title team - and if this is a team on the rise - should it be being lead by a coach and a front office team that are on their way out ? So when we say Win now - what exactly - given what we know now is meant by WIN NOW ? What would make the Jay Gruden project be picked up for a 6th season - does that even feel in Jeopardy even with an 8-8 like season - I mean if we fell to 2-14 then i can see it but just how bad do we need to be to blow the entire thing up - (i think for Bruce to go - we need one thing - a stadium announcement - then it is margaritas and sunsets for ol Brucie) *** EDIT *** Okay so this is a rambling OP - But what i am asking is not really what we need to keep the status Quo - but rather if this was a code Red Win Now season - do the actions match the words ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 I think it's an "Improve Now" season. Can't stay stagnant and can't regress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatteredFanSyndrome Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 Every season is a win now season. But it would have to be a meltdown of epic proportion to get Jay fired. The last thing they need is a 35 year old QB learning another system. I venture a guess that 2018 and 2019 are all Jay and Alex. It’s important they do better this season but 2019 is really the make or break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Tater Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 Jay Gruden will not be here next year if we don't get to the playoffs unless we have really severe injury problems but I don't think he has to win the game to keep his job. Another mediocre year and we can change his name to Norv Gruden or Jay Turner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samy316 Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 I wouldn't say it's a "win now" season, but we've been stuck on neutral/mediocre the last three seasons (with one of them being a playoff appearance in a down year in the NFC East). I think we need to win 9+ games for Jay's job (and to a lesser extent Bruce Allen's job) to be safe. We've got a new QB now, and didn't get anything in return from our old one, and this is now all on the FO & Jay to prove that they didn't make a colossal mistake by letting the previous QB leave town to greater pastures. Jay is going to be judged not only by wins this year, but on if his teams show up to play early on in the season. If we start off slow again, and spin our wheels before the bye week, this season will be quickly going down the drain, and we'll be watching meaningless football in November once again. I'm not going to judge the Skins if they don't make the playoffs, but they need to at least be in contention for a wild card spot. Jay needs to show that this team's arrow is pointing upwards, and that we are not stuck on mediocre or neutral. For a coach entering his 5th season, he better start racking up wins quickly to avoid being an at best middle of the pack coach. 1 playoff appearance in 5 years is not good enough in today's NFL, where first year coaches are guiding their teams to the playoffs each year, and Super Bowls within 2 seasons (Doug Pederson being one of them). I've for a while felt like Jay Gruden is not the coach to lead us to the next level, so unless he proves me wrong fast, I'm in the camp that we need to cut bait at the end of the year, fire Bruce Allen, and start anew. The NFL is the Not-For-Long league, so we shouldn't be waiting year after year to be a contender, when other teams have passed us by in that department. My greatest fear is that in the next few years, we'll be seeing the Rams, Jags and even the Browns going to conference championship games and Super Bowls, while we're still stuck on being a fringe playoff team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 I think in practical terms it is. It's year five. It's a very strange year five with a new QB, new rb, what feels like a new receiving corp, and a new secondary/Dline, but at some point you got to show your wares. For four years, Gruden has improved the team from abysmal to below average. We've gotten to the point that we're beginning to see generational turnover from Gruden's first cast. At some point, you got to show your mettle... or you've shown it. The Eagles after Chip Kelly had zero talent, massive dysfunction, and were a laughing stock. Two years later, they were good enough to win the Superbowl with a back up QB. Redskins need to start being good. Execute on the promise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bakedtater1 Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 Isn't every year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 I always hesitate with "must-win" or "win-now" conversations unless I can answer the "or what" part. I don't truly believe that there will be huge repercussions if we don't go 10-6. Smith is locked in for 3+ years. I suppose we COULD bring in another coach/offense in his second year, but that seems like a tough sell since he might only be rounding into form when he hits his age 36 season. I don't think 2018 comes with major repercussions unless we bottom out and lose 10+ games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samy316 Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 3 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said: I always hesitate with "must-win" or "win-now" conversations unless I can answer the "or what" part. I don't truly believe that there will be huge repercussions if we don't go 10-6. Smith is locked in for 3+ years. I suppose we COULD bring in another coach/offense in his second year, but that seems like a tough sell since he might only be rounding into form when he hits his age 36 season. I don't think 2018 comes with major repercussions unless we bottom out and lose 10+ games. @TD_washingtonredskins: I actually disagree with this. If you're looking at the overall picture and state of this franchise, we desperately need to compete or at least look like we're a playoff threat for Jay to keep his job. I think the overall atmosphere and attitude towards this team is one of skepticism and even apathy. This might be the least enthusiastic that the fan base has been surrounding a new season in as long as I can remember. This team is on the cusp of losing fan interest even more in the future, if it doesn't take the next step to finally be taken seriously. The Caps winning a title kind of put all the teams in DC on notice, especially the Redskins. I'm excusing the Wizards, because it's hard to win in the NBA without a superstar, but the Nats & Redskins need to get their act together, and start winning games. The Nats being a complete disaster this year has taken some of the talk about pressure to win off of the Redskins, but that doesn't change the fact that most seem to think that they're the least likely of the 4 teams in the area to win a championship. If this team wants to get fans going to Fed-Ex again, and buy season tickets and sellout the stadium, it needs to start putting out a better product on the field fast, and that has to begin this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 5 minutes ago, samy316 said: @TD_washingtonredskins: I actually disagree with this. If you're looking at the overall picture and state of this franchise, we desperately need to compete or at least look like we're a playoff threat for Jay to keep his job. I think the overall atmosphere and attitude towards this team is one of skepticism and even apathy. This might be the least enthusiastic that the fan base has been surrounding a new season in as long as I can remember. This team is on the cusp of losing fan interest even more in the future, if it doesn't take the next step to finally be taken seriously. The Caps winning a title kind of put all the teams in DC on notice, especially the Redskins. I'm excusing the Wizards, because it's hard to win in the NBA without a superstar, but the Nats & Redskins need to get their act together, and start winning games. The Nats being a complete disaster this year has taken some of the talk about pressure to win off of the Redskins, but that doesn't change the fact that most seem to think that they're the least likely of the 4 teams in the area to win a championship. If this team wants to get fans going to Fed-Ex again, and buy season tickets and sellout the stadium, it needs to start putting out a better product on the field fast, and that has to begin this season. It's a good post, but to me that seems like doing something for the sake of doing something, not necessarily doing something to improve your chances next year. If we go 8-8, would any new coach really give us a better option in our two-year Alex Smith window? Now, I agree that if we slide back to 6-10 or worse, anything is on the table. But I don't think this is a win-now season as much as it's a can't-lose-now season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koala Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 For Jay Gruden, yes. For most of the players,.probably not. For Bruce Allen, never. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterPinstripe Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 I would say that if we do not make the playoffs this year its time to move on from Gruden... And I say that being a big Gruden fan who thinks he has really revamped and rebuilt this squad from not much talent to a talented squad. And the coaches in general have done a really good job developing our own draft picks as a major part of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theTruthTeller Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 I think this is a big year for the "core" of the team. Williams, Norman, Kerrigan, Reed and Smith take up $71M of cap space this year, and about the same amount next year. All but Reed are over 30. The core needs to play well this year, even if it is playing well in defeat. More importantly, they need to play. I still see the schedule as being brutal, and I don't see where we can piece together an 8 win season. But things change once they start playing games, maybe we're due some lucky breaks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterPinstripe Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 2 minutes ago, theTruthTeller said: I still see the schedule as being brutal, and I don't see where we can piece together an 8 win season. But things change once they start playing games, maybe we're due some lucky breaks. Our schedule last year was more difficult than this year and we got to 7-9 while decimated with injuries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 If its another 7 win season, danny is going to go full 1998. Hes gonna hire pepper rodgers and start signing 33 year old free agents again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 We traded for and paid a 34 year old QB. Of course its a win now season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsfan1311 Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 Hell yes it is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morneblade Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 If it is, we're in trouble. We honestly have too many position GROUPS that have serious question marks. Not just a single position, like say, Left Guard (actually, we know what we have there, it sucks) but the position group, OL, looks pretty good. However....... Our secondary. We know what we have with 2 of the guys, (Norman, Swearinger) and really have no idea about the other CB, slot CB, and FS. It might be pretty good, it might be really bad. We have no idea. That's scary to me. Wide Receivers. We got a good slot WR, and that's all we know about. Doctson was not good last year, but it's his 2nd full year so he might make a jump............or do nothing. Richardson is young, and oft injured, and was the 4th WR on a team that doesn't have a bunch of great WR's before coming here. And then a bunch of guys we have hardly seen play. One huge "?" The ONLY thing I think we can be sure of is that it doesn't have anyone that scares DC's. Defensive Line. Ok, this group might be really good, or even elite....................or not. We were number 32 against the run last year. We SHOULD be better, but we don't know. And we don't know how much better. Will it look like vs. the Jets, or vs. the Broncos? It looks good on paper, but that and $5 will get you a coffee somewhere. Anyone thinking "win now", as in SB or Bust, is delusional. Sorry, that's the team Kirk went to, they are LOADED at every position group.There are huge amount of question marks surrounding whole position groups, not just singular positions, and not even including things like "will we be able to run the ball like a average NFL team" or "did our new QB get enough reps to actually be ready to start the season in a new system and new players?" Or are we talking about 9-7? We could do that, but I think we'll need some luck. Division Championship? I seriously doubt it. Wildcard? We'll likely need to go 10-6/11-5 to do so, and I don't think our roster is that good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Wolffe Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 We need to be in the hunt for the playoffs for the entire season. Could we falter late and finish 7-9 or 8-8. Sure. Anything worse will be tough for Gruden to survive. I'm a big Jay fan..and hope we make the playoffs this year. Worst case for me is 6-10..new coach and new system for next year. I do like the under the radar and the greater sense of urgency that has been reported. Those things seem to go well for us...whenever we have great expectations or start feeling ourselves the team comes out flat. All that being said this makes our first two games critical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88Comrade2000 Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 It's at least win 8 games this season. If Jay can't at minimum do that. then his tenure is done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Kev Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 I think that it is a win-now season, as in we need to have a winning season. I don't mean some 8-7-1 bull****, but 9-7 at the very least. If we go 7-9 or less then I think Snyder clears house and starts again, (again). 2 hours ago, bedlamVR said: Now don't get me wrong here - I think every season the supper bowl has to be the ultimate goal - The supper bowl is my ultimate goal every day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CjSuAvE22 Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 Any wins less than 5 imo gets this staff and front office out the door they have their "QB" now that they traded for and it should have improved the team, if it wasnt a win now situation they could have gone with one of the many free agent qb's as opposed to trading for one, sick and tired of the front office taking positions of strength on the football team and ruining them by alienating players and then it being ok, Bruce Allens record is putrid and id expect him to get dumped if we win less than 7-8 games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus T Firefly Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 We treat every season as "win now" year. This Front Office never has a plan to build something, not even something like a 2 year plan to maximize their chances of building a contender. It's always about winning enough games to let people save their jobs. This team has been in position for a while where a little patience and foresight would have given us a chance to actually come up with an upper-level team. We consistently throw that away to chase 9-7 seasons. It's the mediocrity trap and Bruce Allen is it's poster chid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Monk Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 Need to win 9 games, or have competed down to the wire in most losses to shrug them off. If the team wins 5 or less, it will be hard to justify keeping Jay. If they win 7 or 8, but compete very well (just have one or two bad break plays that would have turned it a win), then they probably make 2019 the make or break season. Then, there's the injury bug that plays a part too. The division and conference is nasty good. I don't think the expectations are SB or bust. They do want to see key players improve, stay healthy, and want to believe that the direction is headed for a legitimate SB run in 2019. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcsluggo Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 if it is.... then it is time to sell old Bessie...................... and head west, young man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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