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is Trumpism helping or harming the position of Christianity in America?

mcsluggo

By mcsluggo
in The Tailgate

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twa

twa

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, mcsluggo said:

 

you will only vote for him in the elections that matter?   the ones that actually make him president of the united states...

 

..... charmed, i am sure.  

 

If the other choice is Hillary ...you betcha.

I have no regrets

1 hour ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

Hypothetical... Trump or Beto?

 

So two bad choices again?

 

Beto is a nice guy for a liberal, maybe he will mature

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LD0506

LD0506

Posted
Posted

Re: the earlier digression about "mocking", when I hear more voices like this one I might have more respect and regard for the devout.........

 

 

https://johnpavlovitz.com/2018/11/24/yes-there-is-a-war-on-christmas/?utm_campaign=coschedule&utm_source=facebook_page&utm_medium=John+Pavlovitz&fbclid=IwAR0mwUvpTxDmenT39zghNM8KVbI_WCscdFk8-Xdd9mDiIt4XoyWuEVRnG_s

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The Sisko

The Sisko

Posted
Posted

Great article LD. I guess like me, you just got your Medium email. Mine made a similar argument that points out the differences between Xtian tenets and the way we as ‘Muricuns act. I’d take it a step further to say that based on the way the country has been run during/post Reagan, it would be difficult for most religious people to be both patriotic and good adherents to their faith. We’re a capitalist society doing our best to work our way back to feudalism. However, if one claims to take Jesus’ commandment to love thy neighbor seriously, it’s impossible to square that with our domestic policies without mental gymnastics, cognitive dissonance and a good bit of twa-style cynical flippancy. Both parties are complicit in this, the GOP because it’s their core tenet and the Dems because they were tired of losing elections. However, IMO the Grand Oligarch’s Party is by far the biggest offender. They’ve managed to win elections using a variety of methods, some ethical, some not. However, their kids are taking all that in and are running for the exit. It won’t be too long before the religious right is little more than the cranky uncle nobody listens to anymore and, the sooner, the better.

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LD0506

LD0506

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, The Sisko said:

Great article LD. I guess like me, you just got your Medium email. Mine made a similar argument that points out the differences between Xtian tenets and the way we as ‘Muricuns act. I’d take it a step further to say that based on the way the country has been run during/post Reagan, it would be difficult for most religious people to be both patriotic and good adherents to their faith. We’re a capitalist society doing our best to work our way back to feudalism. However, if one claims to take Jesus’ commandment to love thy neighbor seriously, it’s impossible to square that with our domestic policies without mental gymnastics, cognitive dissonance and a good bit of twa-style cynical flippancy. Both parties are complicit in this, the GOP because it’s their core tenet and the Dems because they were tired of losing elections. However, IMO the Grand Oligarch’s Party is by far the biggest offender. They’ve managed to win elections using a variety of methods, some ethical, some not. However, their kids are taking all that in and are running for the exit. It won’t be too long before the religious right is little more than the cranky uncle nobody listens to anymore and, the sooner, the better.

 

Ok, duhh, I don't know what that is, Medium email? Does that have something to do with Zorn?

 

Hopped the link in your post, nice, thanks for sharing that.

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LD0506

LD0506

Posted
Posted

Ok, I dredged up this thread because I thought it the relevant one to post this in. If people of faith have the courage of their convictions to even ask these questions much less seek actual answers, I think they'll be fine. Color me skeptical but more power to the author.

 

Quote

As we look toward new year’s resolutions, my hope is that the Christian church might be able to utter just three simple words in 2019. These are words that would change the course of history, foster civil dialogue and perhaps even bring skeptics back into the church. But they are hard words to say: “We were wrong.”

There are many things the church universal and churches more specifically might – or should – admit we were wrong about. But admitting any error does not fall easily from the lips of religious folk – ironically, the very people who want others to confess their sins and turn from their wicked ways.

 

 

https://baptistnews.com/article/3-words-for-the-church-in-2019-we-were-wrong/?fbclid=IwAR1eei-eBjDTJ3at4kstgaIQITgil9_YIQvIYnKdLwOUvjoY4zPrFcFEdR8#.XC6UfVxKh1v

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PleaseBlitz

PleaseBlitz

Posted
Posted

 

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/new-congress-has-fewer-christians-more-religious-diversity

 

Quote

The 116th Congress is less religious and more diverse than the previous class, though changes are almost entirely on the Democratic side.

 

More than 99 percent of the Republican members identify as Christians, as opposed to 78 percent of Democrats, according to a new poll by the Pew Research Center. But in both parties, Christians are overrepresented when compared to the general population -- about 71 percent of U.S. adults describe themselves as Christians.

 

Just two members of the 252 Republican members do not identify as Christian: Reps. Lee Zeldin, R-N.Y., and David Krustoff, R-Tenn., are Jewish.

 

In stark contrast, of the 282 Congressional Democrats, 61 do not identify as Christian. Over half are Jewish, with 32, while 18 declined to specify a religious affiliation. Three members are Muslims, three are Hindus, two are Buddhists, two are Unitarian Universalists, and one is religiously unaffiliated.

 

True to Fox News form, when the first sentence says "less religious" it really means "less Christian."  The only person who is religiously unaffiliated in either chamber is Kristen Sinema of Arizona (religiously unaffiliated make up 25% of the US population as of 2014).  

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Riggo-toni

Riggo-toni

Posted
Posted (edited)

John Adams was a Unitarian who mocked the Nicene creed for its illogic.

Jefferson was an unaffiliated deist who thought the god of the Old Testament was evil.

James Madison remarked that future generations would hold the story of the virgin birth with the same contempt as modern man viewed the myth of Athena born out of the forehead of Zeus.

 

But hey Fox News, keep up the work...

Edited by Riggo-toni
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PleaseBlitz

PleaseBlitz

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https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/evangelicals-have-hired-their-own-goliath/2019/01/03/c04b1a86-0f90-11e9-831f-3aa2c2be4cbd_story.html?utm_term=.f42671e9e031

 

Evangelicals have hired their own Goliath

 

Quote

In this struggle, many evangelicals believe they have found a champion in Trump. He is the enemy of their enemies. He is willing to use the hardball tactics of the secular world to defend their sacred interests. In their battle with the Philistines, evangelicals have essentially hired their own Goliath — brutal, pagan, but on their side.

 

It doesn’t take much biblical research to discover that this isn’t quite how God accomplished things in the original story. He actually employed a scrawny Jewish boy, using unconventional tactics, to demonstrate that His favor mattered more than worldly measures of strength. From a purely political perspective, however, the hiring of a Goliath is what interest groups generally do.

 

In this case, there is also a predictable political cost. The employment of an unethical, racist, anti-immigrant, misogynist Giant is not likely to play well with women, minorities and young people, who are likely to equate conservative religion with prejudice for decades to come.

 

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mcsluggo

mcsluggo

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16 hours ago, NoCalMike said:

Yes that is another scary thing about Trump's tenure, he is willing to align himself with people and views that I think he honestly doesn't care about or believe particularly that much because it will help him politically. 

 

that is not surprising, it is Trump at his core.   He actually doesn't even really try to hide it.... when you don;t believe in anything, why NOT align with whomever will defend you...?

 

what SHOULD be surprising is that the Evangelicals have aligned so squarely with trump..... they PURPORT to strongly believe in all the things that Trump clearly is not, in all the things that are the polar opposite of Trump... but in the end it just doesn't ****ing matter what Trump believes in nor his clear immorality....  it only matters that he gives some things that they want in the here-and-now.    it really lays bare a deep deep and disturbing evangelical hypocrisy and lack of actual belief in the principles that they claim to champion.      

 

This ****-stain should stick to the evangelical community for a really long time, and i HOPE some of them have opened their eyes and can remember and sill smell and see this taint the next time they are whining about how America is becoming less Christian.   THEY (not atheists, not Jews, not Deists, not agnostics, not ISIS....) are the biggest enemies of the teachings of Jesus Christ in the world today.   And they SHOULD be ****ing ashamed of themselves

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Larry

Larry

Posted
Posted
51 minutes ago, mcsluggo said:

what SHOULD be surprising is that the Evangelicals have aligned so squarely with trump..... they PURPORT to strongly believe in all the things that Trump clearly is not, in all the things that are the polar opposite of Trump... but in the end it just doesn't ****ing matter what Trump believes in nor his clear immorality....  it only matters that he gives some things that they want in the here-and-now.    it really lays bare a deep deep and disturbing evangelical hypocrisy and lack of actual belief in the principles that they claim to champion.      

 

Yeah, that really summarizes what was my reaction, way back when I first read the thread title. 

 

Trump isnt hurting christianity in the slightest. (Heck, it's glaringly obvious that he isn't one). 

 

Christianity's support of Trump has, IMO, done damage that ranks up there with the Catholic Church's pedophilia policies. 

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NoCalMike

NoCalMike

Posted
Posted

Well what do most Evangelical leaders have that they want hold onto?  Money & Empire.  Who will help them do that, the guys who cut taxes on wealth & empire. A guy like Joel Osteen. He can pretend to be the happy go lucky aww shucks Christian guy all he wants, but behind closed doors I am sure he is 100% about the money continuing to roll in.

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skinsmarydu

skinsmarydu

Posted
Posted
19 hours ago, NoCalMike said:

Well what do most Evangelical leaders have that they want hold onto?  Money & Empire.  Who will help them do that, the guys who cut taxes on wealth & empire. A guy like Joel Osteen. He can pretend to be the happy go lucky aww shucks Christian guy all he wants, but behind closed doors I am sure he is 100% about the money continuing to roll in.

There are zero crosses in his church. And his entire message is one of prosperity. He's a dirtbag. 

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PleaseBlitz

PleaseBlitz

Posted
Posted

Oh my.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/01/04/evangelicals-infallible-new-faith-gospel-trump/?utm_term=.f477a3f8a34d

 

Quote

On New Year’s Day, Liberty University President Jerry Falwell Jr. defended his unwavering support of President Trump with a thoroughly confused reading of the Gospel.

 

Speaking to The Post, the evangelical leader claimed that it was a distortion of Christ’s teachings to suggest that because He taught love and forgiveness, “the United States as a nation should be loving and forgiving.” According to Falwell’s creative theology, Christ “went out of his way to say that’s the earthly kingdom, I’m about the heavenly kingdom,” and loving your neighbor as yourself only applies to the latter.

The man whose institutional mission includes being “a voice for the voiceless” then meditated on the uselessness of the poor — “A poor person never gave anyone a job. A poor person never gave anybody charity, not of any real volume. It’s just common sense to me.” He then suggested that it might be immoral for Christians not to support Trump.

 

Even the Son of God might have raised an eyebrow at that.

 

Why? Because even the most apathetic Sunday school attendee could probably dredge up this snippet of the Lord’s Prayer: “Thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven.” The golden rule is applicable now, not just after death.

 

And when it comes to the poor, there’s that memorable story in which Jesus declared that a poor widow’s two mites were worth more than all the gifts of the rich. One might even recall that Christ himself was born in a stable and went on to become an itinerant teacher — a lesson we collectively reviewed a little more than a week ago.

 

Falwell’s flawed exegesis is comically absurd, but its implications are profoundly unfunny. While the Liberty University president purports to be an evangelical leader, his statements are in total contradiction to Christian truth. This isn’t just benign confusion: This is heresy.

 

Quote

Of course, not all American Christians have signed on. Many have repudiated this new theology and are even rejecting the label of evangelical to further distance themselves from its new associations with the president. They’ve taken the advice of the Apostle Paul, who advised early Christians to admonish heretics at least twice, but then after that “have nothing to do with them.”

 

Yet this approach makes it even clearer that the alternative dogma has solidified and that its adherents are fully convinced. Near the end of his interview, Falwell was asked if there was anything that Trump could do to endanger his support from evangelical leaders. His confident answer? “No.”

 

That’s what you call faith. But it’s definitely not Christian.

 

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mistertim

mistertim

Posted
Posted

Now that we're in the Age of Trump they've gone beyond simply selectively quoting or misquoting the Bible. They just straight up make **** up that's in direct contradiction to what's in the Bible and assume their followers will simply accept it...just like how Trump rolls. 

 

Falwell Jr: "A poor person never gave anybody charity, not of any real volume.  It’s just common sense to me.”

 

Jesus: "Bruh..."

 

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