is Trumpism helping or harming the position of Christianity in America?

[Kilmer17]

1 minute ago, mcsluggo said:

this action demonstrated that Paul Ryan believed that his legislation was anti-poor, dishonest, and anti-christian principles, and the sleazy underhanded way he dumped the chaplain for daring to state christian principles (again, without specifically addressing the legislation) is just icing on the **** burrito.

 

 

this actually is an almost perfect encapsulation of Paul Ryan, and his legacy.   

I disagree.  I dont believe for a minute that Ryan believes his legislation is anti-poor. etc.

[mcsluggo]

3 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said:

I disagree.  I dont believe for a minute that Ryan believes his legislation is anti-poor. etc.

 

I'm not going to try to convince you.   If the simple facts haven't already done that, then I won't be able to.   

[Kilmer17]

1 minute ago, mcsluggo said:

 

I'm not going to try to convince you.   If the simple facts haven't already done that, then I won't be able to.   

Nah.  I dont think you believe it either.  It's just a convenient lazy bat to use to bash the GOP.  

 

Or maybe you're right and the GOP sits around in dark clusters plotting ways to screw people over for kicks.

[The Evil Genius]

They aren't. They're simply plotting how to make their donors (and themselves) richer. 

 

If the poor suffer. So what.

Edited April 27, 2018 by The Evil Genius

[mcsluggo]

5 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said:

Nah.  I dont think you believe it either.  It's just a convenient lazy bat to use to bash the GOP.  

 

Or maybe you're right and the GOP sits around in dark clusters plotting ways to screw people over for kicks.

 

again...that second part is YOUR projection.   The tax bill blew up the budget (which will have to be paid for in the future, presumably by cuts in services) in order to give tax relief that almost entirely went to the wealthy.   And then to top it off, the only portions of the tax relief that were made permanent were the portions that entirely accrued to the wealthy.

 

the country needed to reduce the corporate tax rate.   it didn't have to happen in a way that entirely screwed the poor--- the GOP just chose to do it that way.

[Kilmer17]

1 minute ago, The Evil Genius said:

They aren't. They're simply plotting how to make their donors (and themselves) richer. 

 

If the poor suffer. So what.

I dont think they're thinking that either.  Anymore than I think the Dems are trying to take money from me to give it to lazy freeloading illegal immigrants just to pad their votes.

 

Failure to accept that the opposition might have a pure motive ruins discourse.  It's fun here, but that perverse view of the other side at the legislative level is a bad thing.

1 minute ago, mcsluggo said:

 

again...that second part is YOUR projection.   The tax bill blew up the budget (which will have to be paid for in the future, presumably by cuts in services) in order to give tax relief that almost entirely went to the wealthy.   And then to top it off, the only portions of the tax relief that were made permanent were the portions that entirely accrued to the wealthy.

 

the country needed to reduce the corporate tax rate.   it didn't have to happen in a way that entirely screwed the poor--- the GOP just chose to do it that way.

And that's YOUR opinion of it.  I'm not discounting it as your opinion, I'm discounting your absolute refusal to believe anyone other than those that agree with your opinion have a motive other that nefarious ones.

[AsburySkinsFan]

2 hours ago, twa said:

 

So you are saying it WAS a partisan prayer?

If you consider the Gospel partisan then yes.

[No Excuses]

15 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said:

 

And that's YOUR opinion of it.  I'm not discounting it as your opinion, I'm discounting your absolute refusal to believe anyone other than those that agree with your opinion have a motive other that nefarious ones.

 

Newt Gingrich is that you?

 

It's the consensus of pretty much every non-partisan outlet. But of course, since they are clearly rebuking the GOP, their facts must be partisan, and therefore an opinion.

[Kilmer17]

Just now, No Excuses said:

 

Newt Gingrich is that you?

 

It's the consensus of pretty much every non-partisan outlet. But of course, since they are clearly rebuking the GOP, their facts must be partisan, and therefore an opinion.

There are no non- partisan outlets.

[mcsluggo]

22 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said:

I dont think they're thinking that either.  Anymore than I think the Dems are trying to take money from me to give it to lazy freeloading illegal immigrants just to pad their votes.

 

Failure to accept that the opposition might have a pure motive ruins discourse.  It's fun here, but that perverse view of the other side at the legislative level is a bad thing.

And that's YOUR opinion of it.  I'm not discounting it as your opinion, I'm discounting your absolute refusal to believe anyone other than those that agree with your opinion have a motive other that nefarious ones.

 

again.. YOU are the one that applied the nefarious shrouding.   

 

but.... 

 

it is fact, not opinion, that the bill greatly increases the budget deficit (when the economy is already at full employment, no less) and the growth of the debt

it is fact, not opinion, that the benefits of the tax cuts accrue disproportionately to the wealthy.

it is fact, not opinion, that in addition to the above, the bill permanently encodes the portions of the bill that most directly benefit the wealthy, and allows the other portions of the tax cuts to expire.

 

I'll agree that it is opinion, not fact, whether there is a  "pure motive" or  "GOP sitting around in dark clusters plotting ways to screw people over for kicks"  (to use your words in both cases)

[AsburySkinsFan]

I just think it’s funny that when a CHRISTIAN chaplain prays a prayer that is OBVIOUSLY in line with the Gospel is all of the sudden forced to resign because something in one of his prayers conflicted with the agenda of the Republicans in Congress! If that same chaplain prayed about the sanctity of human life prior to an abortion bill tbe Republicans would be hailing him as a hero. 

This is the very nature of the Gospel, it transcends the agendas of political parties and it chastises both in different places and for different reasons. The nature of the Gospel is that it speaks the Kingdom of God into the fray of Right and Left. And the fact that Republicans fired the chaplain for doing what he is called by God to do only shows that their priority is to party above nation, and above God’s own self!

 

Oh and before some halfwit goes off the rails thinking that somehow my criticism of the Republicans is somehow a baptism of the Democrats I’ll say this...don’t be that halfwit.

18 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said:

There are no non- partisan outlets.

There ARE very neutral outlets (Reuters et al) and there are certainly outlets that are far more partisan than others, I won’t even bother naming them because we’va ALL see the charts.

[No Excuses]

21 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said:

There are no non- partisan outlets.

 

Ok. So the CBO is partisan?

[Kilmer17]

2 minutes ago, mcsluggo said:

 

again.. YOU are the one that applied the nefarious shrouding.   

 

but.... 

 

it is fact, not opinion, that the bill greatly increases the budget deficit (when the economy is already at full employment, no less) and the growth of the debt

it is fact, not opinion, that the benefits of the tax cuts accrue disproportionately to the wealthy.

it is fact, not opinion, that in addition to the above, the bill permanently encodes the portions of the bill that most directly benefit the wealthy, and allows the other portions of the tax cuts to expire.

 

I'll agree that it is opinion, not fact, whether there is a  "pure motive" or  "GOP sitting around in dark clusters plotting ways to screw people over for kicks"  (to use your words in both cases)

1- Yes.  It increases the deficit and debt.  And every GOPer that claims that those things are a backbone of their beliefs but voted for it are full of ****

2- Any tax cut will dispropotionately affect the wealthy because they are disproportionately paying more already

3-Im not exactly sure what you mean by this.

1 minute ago, No Excuses said:

 

Ok. So the CBO is partisan?

No, but the analysis of what they say always is.

[No Excuses]

6 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said:

 

No, but the analysis of what they say always is.

 

Yikes. But ok. Not much point in taking this further if you’re of this view.

[twa]

So was he fired for the prayer or not?

[Kilmer17]

2 minutes ago, twa said:

So was he fired for the prayer or not?

He was asked to resign.  No comment from anyone regarding why.  Just fun speculation.

 

 

Edited April 27, 2018 by Kilmer17

[PeterMP]

14 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said:

1- Yes.  It increases the deficit and debt.  And every GOPer that claims that those things are a backbone of their beliefs but voted for it are full of ****

2- Any tax cut will dispropotionately affect the wealthy because they are disproportionately paying more already

3-Im not exactly sure what you mean by this.

No, but the analysis of what they say always is.

 

#2 is not true.  There are all sorts of ways that taxes could be cut that that don't disproportionately favor the wealthy.  Raising the EITC would be a tax cut that doesn't disproportionately favor the wealthy.

 

#3.  His point is the tax cuts for the lower and middle class expire, while the majority of the tax cuts that favor the wealthy don't.

 

In general, though, the point still stands.  The prayer can only be seen as an implication that the bill harms people that are struggling to succeed if there is a sense that it is true.  Why would anybody that had no doubts that the bill hurt the poor see that as an implication in the prayer?  The prayer could just have easily seen as a plea for people thinking about not voting for it to vote for it.

 

Edited April 27, 2018 by PeterMP

[Kilmer17]

1 minute ago, PeterMP said:

 

#2 is not true.  There are all sorts of ways that taxes could be cut that that don't disproportionately favor the wealthy.  Raising the EITC would be a tax cut that doesn't disproportionately favor the wealthy.

 

#3.  His point is the tax cuts for the lower and middle class expire, while the majority of the tax cuts that favor the wealthy don't.

 

In general, though, the point still stands.  The prayer can only be seen as an implication that the bill harms the poor if there is a sense that it is true.  Why would anybody that had no doubts that the bill hurt the poor see that as an implication in the prayer?  The prayer could just have easily seen as a plea for people thinking about not voting for it to vote for it.

Well that's not exactly a tax cut then.

 

I haven't looked back, but it's entirely possible that talking about any legislation is frowned upon.  Or maybe Ryan thinks it should be.  Since no one is talking about it in detail, it's kind of hard to know the exact reasons.

 

 

[mcsluggo]

 

 

 

just... plain.... bat**** .... crazy ....   

[Zguy28]

31 minutes ago, mcsluggo said:

just... plain.... bat**** .... crazy ....   

No he's not. He knows exactly what he's doing. Which is even worse IMO. Preacher, be thought crazy because you believe God became a man, died to take away the sins of the world, and rose from the dead. Not because you believe in your savior Trump, yabba dabba doo like Fred Flintstone, and have a bad toupee.

[mcsluggo]

you are correct... its the SITUATION that is crazy.   

 

the preacher is a ****ing repulsive blood-sucking charlatan that clearly has no interest whatsoever in the words or teachings of Jesus Christ 

[Bang]

We are a third world country in many places.

 

~Bang

 

 

[AsburySkinsFan]

9 minutes ago, mcsluggo said:

you are correct... its the SITUATION that is crazy.   

 

the preacher is a ****ing repulsive blood-sucking charlatan that clearly has no interest whatsoever in the words or teachings of Jesus Christ 

Christianity by in large in America is a disgusting joke. Whether they are busily defending self serving self-protective institutions, ignorant narrow-minded morons who wouldn't know the Gospel of Christ from a hole in the ground, or preaching a false gospel of hate and division, preaching Americana rather than the Biblical good news or whether they are simply power hungry, or sexual predators, or just your garden variety egotistical greedy ****s hell bent on fleecing their flocks of every penny. And then there is the other side that just preaches Leftist politics and ideals as if there isn't any conflict with the Gospel as well.

I got tired of it all. I don't believe that the vast majority of people in the church have ever even heard the authentic Gospel of Jesus, instead they get some water on their heads and continue being the same exact people they were before they "converted", but now they get to add false humility and self righteousness into their blatant hypocrisy. They baptize their ignorance and call it inspiration, they sanctify their political ideology and call it scripture, they hate their neighbors and claim to be justified, they cozy up with the rich and powerful and claim to care about the poor, they condemn the poor by blaming the poor for being poor. 

 

But they show up on Sunday mornings into their highly segregated buildings that swallow billions of dollars annually, to receive their opium from a robed drug pusher who is long skilled in the art of manipulation and sales strategy. Then they leave on their Sabbath day and go to the local eatery which forces the poor to work in order to cater to the church-folk, and then after being rude and judgmental to the poor working woman they stiff her tip by giving her a Jesus tract that is meant to feed her soul all while ignoring her hungry family. 

 

Oh, but they're not all that way...there now everyone can forget what I just wrote by pretending they are one of the minority.

 

As for me, I'm an arrogant loud mouthed son of a **** who got tired of serving the self righteous at the expense of my dignity. I may never see the pearly gates, but I guarandamntee you that I'll be in good company with all of those pew sitters.

[mcsluggo]

18 minutes ago, Bang said:

We are a third world country in many places.

 

~Bang

 

Those people didn't look poor.....     

 

maybe Medieval Country would fit better?

[PleaseBlitz]

From yesterday's Post.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/opinions/wp/2018/08/29/how-many-norms-can-trump-and-evangelical-leaders-break-in-one-meeting/?utm_term=.b67252d71659

 

How many norms can Trump and evangelical leaders break in one meeting?

 

Quote

[H]e wrongly told evangelical leaders that he repealed a law preventing them from conducting politics from the pulpit — and then asks them to behave in such a fashion that likely runs afoul of the rules for non-exempt organizations. “(Trump also erroneously claimed Monday that he had done away with the Johnson Amendment, which he described to the evangelical leaders as a ‘disaster for you,’ according to the NBC report. The provision bars religious institutions and other tax-exempt organizations from endorsing political candidates.”) Trump seems not to know that “repeal of the Johnson Amendment was ultimately not included in last year’s Republican tax bill. While Trump signed an executive order aimed at making it easier for churches to take part in politics, an act of Congress would be required to repeal the provision itself.” The evangelical leaders shouldn’t take tax advice from the president.

 

Consider all the things wrong with this meeting. First, the president is conducting an explicitly campaign-related meeting in the White House. He simply doesn’t understand that it’s not his house; it’s the American people’s. Second, once more he is hinting at, if not holding the threat of, violence over the heads of Americans. Pitting one group of Americans against another by suggesting one side will commit violence is the stuff of tinpot dictatorships. Third — and this concerns the evangelicals far more than it does Trump — the degree to which these religious leaders throw themselves at Trump’s feet, ignoring all manner of immoral and un-Christian conduct for the sake of political power, is bracing and has hurt both religion and politics.