Evaluating Jay Gruden in 2018

[Cooleyfan1993]

1 minute ago, skins4eva said:

This will be Gruden’s last year. He doesn’t have what it takes. We all know that. 

No, we don’t “all know that”. That’s just your opinion. My opinion is he’s better than any coach we’ve had since joe Gibbs. 

 

2014 was bad. 

2015 we made the playoffs 

2016 we ALMOST made the playoffs (yeah, he should have had us better prepared Vs the giants in week 17, that’s obvious, but he had us playing meaningful games in December for the 2nd year in a row)

2017 we were badly injured. Gotta stay healthy. 

 

My opinion is i think if we stay healthy this year, we’ll do big things. 

1 minute ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Never go by preseason scores.  The question is more how the starters played and how much they played and how ready the team is for the opener.

 

so far 0-4.  Next one is in 9 days... 

 

We’ll see.

Season openers, now that’s a different issue entirely. We need to win week 1. 

[skins4eva]

1 minute ago, Cooleyfan1993 said:

No, we don’t “all know that”. That’s just your opinion. My opinion is he’s better than any coach we’ve had since joe Gibbs. 

 

2014 was bad. 

2015 we made the playoffs 

2016 we ALMOST made the playoffs (yeah, he should have had us better prepared Vs the giants in week 17, that’s obvious, but he had us playing meaningful games in December for the 2nd year in a row)

2017 we were badly injured. Gotta stay healthy. 

 

My opinion is i think if we stay healthy this year, we’ll do big things. 

 

I hope you’re right. I’m rooting for him and eill

be thrilled to be wrong. I just don’t see it. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 minute ago, Cooleyfan1993 said:

My opinion is i think if we stay healthy this year, we’ll do big things

From your keyboard to God’s ears.  

 

We’ll see.

3 minutes ago, Cooleyfan1993 said:

eason openers, now that’s a different issue entirely. We need to win week 1

The preseason is only important insofar as it prepares the team for the regular season.

 

Evidence points to the team being unprepared in previous openers.  

 

The starters ERS didn’t get a lot of playing time this preseason with a new QB on offense. 

 

Hopefully the the results will be different.

 

But the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

[Jumbo]

i think jay is a jerry jones plant

i think meth = weight loss

i have tapes

[mojo]

I’m thinking Jay is best suited as a coordinator and part time drinking buddy of the players.  I hope he proves me wrong this season.

[LaRonDontLikeUgly]

The only thing preseason tells you is how good/bad your lower-half of the roster is.  I worry about the depth on this team (outside of DL/WR/QB) and I fear that we are trending in the wrong direction in terms of guys 'at the bottom' making their way to the 'top'.

 

The most glaring thing I saw last night was that guys were taking themselves out of the play by being out of position.  The defense particularly didn't recognize or anticipate the flow of the game.  That's coaching.

[Sandy Monk]

12 minutes ago, LaRonDontLikeUgly said:

The only thing preseason tells you is how good/bad your lower-half of the roster is.  I worry about the depth on this team (outside of DL/WR/QB) and I fear that we are trending in the wrong direction in terms of guys 'at the bottom' making their way to the 'top'.

 

The most glaring thing I saw last night was that guys were taking themselves out of the play by being out of position.  The defense particularly didn't recognize or anticipate the flow of the game.  That's coaching.

 

In some cases, you have players feeling the end is near, over-pursuing from desperation, and being their own worst enemy. It's just up to good coaching to sift through what we see as trash. The roster was likely about locked up before the opening kickoff last night. 

[OVCChairman]

56 minutes ago, LaRonDontLikeUgly said:

The only thing preseason tells you is how good/bad your lower-half of the roster is.  I worry about the depth on this team (outside of DL/WR/QB) and I fear that we are trending in the wrong direction in terms of guys 'at the bottom' making their way to the 'top'.

 

The most glaring thing I saw last night was that guys were taking themselves out of the play by being out of position.  The defense particularly didn't recognize or anticipate the flow of the game.  That's coaching.

 

 

I think we have young talent at CB as well...

 

I am concerned about this inability to tackle.  It seems like were ALWAYS giving up yards after contact... now I don't have statistical analysis so I could be way off base, but the eye test just seems like, top to bottom, we're still not a good tackling team. 

[@DCGoldPants]

I think the seat is hot for Jay. 

 

He has to improve clock management and playcalling inside the red zone. Another year of abandoning what gets you into scoring position once you're there would be a bad look.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

17 minutes ago, @SkinsGoldPants said:

I think the seat is hot for Jay. 

 

He has to improve clock management and playcalling inside the red zone. Another year of abandoning what gets you into scoring position once you're there would be a bad look.

 

Fair or not, I agree. 

 

The "narrative" is that we were 7-9 last year with 50 key injuries. So, whatever slack he got last year will now be used as evidence against him if we are healthy and don't improve on that record. If we stay healthy, I think he needs to win 10 games or make the playoffs to be completely safe. 

[@DCGoldPants]

Just now, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

Fair or not, I agree. 

 

The "narrative" is that we were 7-9 last year with 50 key injuries. So, whatever slack he got last year will now be used as evidence against him if we are healthy and don't improve on that record. If we stay healthy, I think he needs to win 10 games or make the playoffs to be completely safe. 

 

I think last year he did get the benefit of the doubt because of injuries. Even if they have the same amount this year, he'll be looked at to get more out of what he has.

 

They shouldn't just fire him without an idea of who they'd like. To be honest, if you are going to move on from him. I'd much rather move on from Bruce 1st. Clean up the front office. Bring in a better Team Prez and/or GM. Let that person build a coaching staff.

[C26 Run]

Last night, our players played out of position, couldn't tackle, the depth looks questionable, and the effort was terrible.  That's on coaching.  I truly respect Gruden as a scout, he truly has a great eye.  Last night, we had to call a time-out for a punt return.  Hopefully he does well, and I'm just venting from last night.  But if he doesn't get at least 10 wins or make the playoffs this year, a change will be needed.  Fire BA as well and give the keys to Kyle Smith. 

[samy316]

I've seen enough from him the last 4 years, and the 3rd preseason game from last week to let me know that his seat should be scorching this season.  This offseason and preseason haven't really given me much confidence, especially last week's dress rehearsal against Denver.  This team looks sloppy, out of place, and worst of all, the horrid clock management has not gotten much better.  They better do a 180 by the season opener, because this team looks to me like the same mediocre, lackluster teams we've fielded under Gruden.

 

I like the guy as a person, but he just screams mediocre as a head coach, and this season should be the defining clue as to what Jay Gruden is as a head coach.  If we aren't markedly better this season (provided we don't have the rash of injuries that we did last season), then we need to find a new head coach.  If you're not better than 8-8 or 9-7 after year 5, what evidence is their to point to that would make us believe that he will get better as a coach years 6-10 if given an extension?  I think Gruden is a great offensive coordinator, but a middle of the pack coach at best.

 

One thing that I'm starting to wonder is if we made a big mistake in letting Sean McVay go after the 2016 season.  When he was highly sought after by other teams at the end of 2016, I was secretly hoping that we would fire Jay, and move Sean to HC, but we didn't capitalize on the chance.  I know it would've been difficult to fire a coach who technically had back to back winning seasons, but I think we might've let the next hot coaching prospect inadvertently walk out the door, and it might come back to haunt us someday, when he's taking the Rams to the playoffs consistently.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

57 minutes ago, @SkinsGoldPants said:

 

I think last year he did get the benefit of the doubt because of injuries. Even if they have the same amount this year, he'll be looked at to get more out of what he has.

 

They shouldn't just fire him without an idea of who they'd like. To be honest, if you are going to move on from him. I'd much rather move on from Bruce 1st. Clean up the front office. Bring in a better Team Prez and/or GM. Let that person build a coaching staff.

 

Oh, I don't want him fired unless something drastic happens. I like him as the coach here. 

 

I just think that last season's excuse will have the opposite affect this year...he will be expected to win a few more games than last year because the perception is that we have a good roster and we made a lateral move at QB. 

[CrypticVillain]

On 4/29/2018 at 7:05 PM, CrypticVillain said:

Season will fall on the shoulders of Jay Gruden. Someway, somehow, this Front Office has followed a decent off-season last year, with an even better one this year. The pieces are there for Gruden.

 

If he goes worse than 7-9 next year, he doesn't deserve another shot... He gotta go. 

It's been four months... I am standing firm on my stance. If he really is building something here, he can't get away with regression. Not in his fifth season; with this team.

[Warhead36]

2 hours ago, C26 Run said:

Last night, our players played out of position, couldn't tackle, the depth looks questionable, and the effort was terrible.  That's on coaching.  I truly respect Gruden as a scout, he truly has a great eye.  Last night, we had to call a time-out for a punt return.  Hopefully he does well, and I'm just venting from last night.  But if he doesn't get at least 10 wins or make the playoffs this year, a change will be needed.  Fire BA as well and give the keys to Kyle Smith. 

How much of that is coaching and how much of it is 4th stringers making silly mistakes and trying way too hard to make the big play to make the team resulting in bad football?

[TD_washingtonredskins]

1 hour ago, CrypticVillain said:

It's been four months... I am standing firm on my stance. If he really is building something here, he can't get away with regression. Not in his fifth season; with this team.

 

As much as I love Gruden, I think it's a very fair stance. I'm fine throwing away 2014 as a rebuilding year. But since 2015 we are basically .500 with a very slight regression in each year. Unless something drastically bad happens, it would be fair for Gruden to need 9+ wins to stick around. 

 

Personally, I hope they keep him...but this is a results-based business and another 7-or-fewer win season would be 3-4 years of ZERO progress where it counts. 

[@DCGoldPants]

1 hour ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

As much as I love Gruden, I think it's a very fair stance. I'm fine throwing away 2014 as a rebuilding year. But since 2015 we are basically .500 with a very slight regression in each year. Unless something drastically bad happens, it would be fair for Gruden to need 9+ wins to stick around. 

 

Personally, I hope they keep him...but this is a results-based business and another 7-or-fewer win season would be 3-4 years of ZERO progress where it counts. 

 

 

agreed. I'm tired of the "he's a players coach" and "these guys are professionals and shouldn't need x,y, and z". Belichick probably still hammers his guys for little mistakes. I'm guessing he's done it for so long that his veteran players and coaches do it for him before it becomes an issue.

 

Not going to put a number of how many wins. But I think regression in play with a flat game at the end of the year would be a deal breaker.

 

This opening game is going to be interesting. If they come out like they have the past 4 years. Then that's a bad sign.

[dyst]

15 hours ago, Cooleyfan1993 said:

My opinion is he’s better than any coach we’ve had since joe Gibbs. 

We  should compare our players, coaches and management to other NFL teams, not our own. Of course he is 'our' best coach, but we suck so that doesn't mean much.

[C26 Run]

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

How much of that is coaching and how much of it is 4th stringers making silly mistakes and trying way too hard to make the big play to make the team resulting in bad football?

It's all on coaching.  Bmore's players played with more energy and urgency.  Harbaugh had his team fighting for every inch and yard.  That's quality depth.  Bad tackling, clock management, and poor execution are all coaching faults even with 4th string players.  For this season, Gruden has to start fast to finish with a good record but from what I've seen so far that may not happen. 

[samy316]

USA Today has a list of 8 coaches who should be on the hot seat in 2018.  Guess who makes the list at #5?

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2018/08/30/nfl-hot-seat-coaches-2018-hue-jackson-dirk-koetter/1125418002/

 

 

5. Jay Gruden, Redskins: He probably deserves a reprieve after surviving the Kirk Cousins soap opera while rebooting at quarterback with Alex Smith. But Gruden, the first coach to attain a fifth season under Washington owner Dan Snyder, has only reached the playoffs once, so hard to see him reaching season No. 6 if the 'Skins aren't playing in January.

 

That about sums up all I said earlier about Jay, but I certainly hope that what happened last year doesn't factor into the decision to either part ways with Jay or extend him should we fall apart and finish with 7 or less wins this season.  I don't give a damn if last year was terrible with the injury situation, if you're a 5 year coach in the NFL you should have more than 1 playoff appearance on your resume, or you should be shown the door.  Throwing out the 2014 season, Jay Gruden's record is 24-23-1.  That is the very definition of mediocrity.  If he doesn't win 9 or 10 games minimum this coming season, they should fire him.  I wouldn't hold it against him if the team goes 9-7 or 10-6 and just misses the playoffs, since the NFC is a brutal conference with many good to great teams vying for 6 playoff spots.  I just want to see more competitiveness, fire, and less mistakes week in and week out.

[Voice_of_Reason]

So there has been a lot of talk of the opener, and Jay on the hot seat, and must-win nature of the opener.

 

In the OP I said that how Jay handled Training Camp and the Pre-season, leading into the opener was my #1 evaluation criteria. 

 

That said, based on record along, I don't think that anything can be determined by the opener, win or lose. 

 

The opener in Arizona is not a cream-puff game. It's a game I firmly believe the 'Skins need to win if they are going to get to 9 or 10 wins this year.  But it's not like playing the JV. They had a good defense last year, and have good offensive weapons, and Bradford, when he's upright, is an ok QB.

 

However, Steve Wilks is a rookie HC, and Bradford is new to the team.  If Arizona comes out looking better prepared, then that's on Jay, and that's a bad thing. That means a first year coach was better at preparing the team than Jay. 

 

I won't pass any serious judgement until the bye-week.  If the 'Skins are 2-1, or better, then that's pretty good, regardless of how they got there. 

 

If they are 1-2, then questions need to be asked, and you need to take a look at how they got there.

 

If they are 0-3, absent losing the entire team to injury, that's clearly unacceptable. 

 

Winning in the NFL is hard.  There are no cream-puff games.  Which is why you have to prepare hard and win tough games.

 

The 'Skins and 'Zona are pretty close in talent.  This is the type of game where coaching, game planning, in-game adjustments and preparation makes a huge difference.  If you do the small things well, and are well prepared, you should be able to win this game.  If you don't, you won't.

 

If they lose the opener, we'll have a real code red game in game 2 of the season, because lose that game at home with GB in the on-deck circle, that's not a great situation to be in.

 

 

[dcdiscokid]

6 hours ago, @SkinsGoldPants said:

They shouldn't just fire him without an idea of who they'd like. To be honest, if you are going to move on from him. I'd much rather move on from Bruce 1st. Clean up the front office. Bring in a better Team Prez and/or GM. Let that person build a coaching staff.

I agree 100% with this, to me Bruce Allen would have been apart of 2 unsuccessful coaching hires.  Absolutely no reason to give him a 3rd try at it. Hire a real GM, let him make the decision about his coaching staff.

[The Hangman- C_Hanburger]

5 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

How much of that is coaching and how much of it is 4th stringers making silly mistakes and trying way too hard to make the big play to make the team resulting in bad football?

and how much is it that Gruden is spending time preparing the starters for the Cardinals and the 4th PG was an afterthought at best (just to see how the "starting" RB's run against scrubs...

[kingdaddy]

From where I sit Jay Gruden needs to upgrade his game as a coach/play caller....I think Jay has a ton of ability across the board but something is holding him back and I think it's his aggressiveness. Doug Peterson of the Eagles is fearless and attacks defenses hard. I wanna see more of that out of Jay....more aggressive play calling and more creativity. Get the ball to your horses and find ways to abuse mismatches..... I have not seen him pick on weak spots of a defense and he has a veteran QB who should be able to do that. As a leader, I think he's good but he needs to be better and more demanding of results from his players and coaches. Jay needs to start establishing himself as a game changing coach that finds ways to win.....period. Losing to guys like that bozo the Giants ran out there last year is inexcusable....same with his record against Dallas and that clown.