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Evaluating Jay Gruden in 2018


Voice_of_Reason

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14 minutes ago, dyst said:

He can have a pro bowl roster, finish 7-9 and his supporters will say he didn’t have good players.

 

 

i see you're still stupid, too.:806:

 

i would tell you don't ever change but then you would :P

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I'm not feeling Jay's play calling for his starters at all this preseason.  Is he evaluating what NOT to do in the regular season?  I trust his offense, I think we'll be fine, but if you asked me if I thought we wasted this preseason, I'd have to say yes.

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So, as I posted in the OP, one of the biggest factors I will judge Jay on is how the team starts.  I put that as the number 1 criteria before the schedule came out, then doubled down after the schedule came out.  

 

Especially with a new web and new starting wr, playing time in the preseason seemed important.

 

Now, it appeared as though the only real purpose of the game was to evaluate AP.  Which is fine. I don’t think Jay will call the game the same way, with Smith really only throwing on 3rd down for much of the 1st quarter. So maybe it’s just a quirk if this preseason and what they had to do with the running game.

 

However if the team stats slowly and the offense looms out of sync, that’s on Jay.  And that could cost him his job. 

 

Its rhe same approach as years past that hasn’t worked. 

 

So, we’ll see. 

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1 hour ago, dyst said:

He can have a pro bowl roster, finish 7-9 and his supporters will say he didn’t have good players.

 

Do you really think he’s been the beneficiary of anything remotely close to a pro bowl roster?

 

I don’t like everything about Jay Gruden, but I like him overall - so you could call me a supporter.  

 

But I firmly believe NFL head coach is one of the most overrated jobs in professional sports.  The head coach cannot throw, run, pass, catch or tackle for them.

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1 hour ago, dyst said:

Rule #5 man

 

 :D you really think i don't know the rules or did that carelessly?   

 

watch (especially since i heavily rewrote rule 5 myself

 

now i know the part of the rule you're thinking of; here's what you're missing

 

from rule 5


 

Quote

 

We encourage spirited discussions and holding people accountable for what they post. This may be done in ways from funny to firm, including being castigating if reasonably merited. For example, calling someone "clueless" or calling some comment or post “stupid” when done in appropriate and justifiable context to the poster’s actual content is often allowable. 

 

(read the rest of rule for all context)

 

and 

 

Quote

 

This is most safely done when in response to a specifically posted comment using the "quote" feature or in accurate reference to a poster’s general content in various threads over time on a given topic.

 

  

 

:D

 

and then

Quote

 

Understand that moderators have wide latitude in defining and enforcing this rule. For this and all matters related to moderation, we suggest close inspection of Rule 18.

 

 

 

 

 

 

  

 

so here's the relevant part of 18 :D


 

Quote

 

We experience our share of people who do not understand the meaning of the Rules, or have chosen not to learn or follow them, and sometimes choose to challenge or debate the moderators on their implementation. Any suggestion that the people who wrote the Rules and enforce them know them less than you can result in a temporary ban.

 

 

 

 

 

so see what you did? :D

 

 

ok---truth is i just did all this for the same reason i used "stupid' in the first place---just to **** with you for old times sake :P

 

which is a rule 12 violation :ols:

 

 

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1 hour ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 

Do you really think he’s been the beneficiary of anything remotely close to a pro bowl roster?

 

I don’t like everything about Jay Gruden, but I like him overall - so you could call me a supporter.  

 

But I firmly believe NFL head coach is one of the most overrated jobs in professional sports.  The head coach cannot throw, run, pass, catch or tackle for them.

Everyone good enough to make it to the league are capable of those things. It's about bringing a bunch of millionaires together collectively and having them buy in and work hard enough to win a Lombardi. So no, not most overrated job in professional sports. No job in professional sports is easy.

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6 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

I'm not feeling Jay's play calling for his starters at all this preseason.  Is he evaluating what NOT to do in the regular season?  I trust his offense, I think we'll be fine, but if you asked me if I thought we wasted this preseason, I'd have to say yes.

 

What is a not wasted preseason?

 

Preseason to me is to evaluate players, evaluate the playbooks. Plays that works, plays that don't. Plays that players are not getting... See who's good, who's a try hard guy, and so on...

 

So I never put too much stock on starters play level during the preseason, because their jobs mostly is to go through it uinjured. Which leads to go for safe tackling, don't do anything fancy, if you miss, just miss, don't take risks. Especially with our injury history last year. Play the game, make not mistake, but play it 80% or stuff like that. 2nd, 3rd or 4th stringers are more fired up because they want to impress coaches and make the team...

 

So really, a wasted preseason... Doesn't looks like it to me so far, and preseason games are not telling the story at all. The last two years, Ravens went 4-0 in Preseason and ended up 8-8, 9-7, out of playoffs. in 2015 they went 1-3 and made the playoffs. Bill Bellichick in 42-34 with the Patriots. Reid? 37-41 since 2003.

And Damn, his 1st year, Jay was 3-1 in preseason... 4-12 during the season.

 

Oh, do you know the best part of preseason?

Two teams started 4-0 in 2008's and 2017's preseasons. That is the Detroit Lions and Cleveland Browns.

Their record at the end of the regular season?

 

You guessed it: 0-16

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For any other coach, any other team, any other year, I would generally just say, “who cares how they looked, it’s preseason”.  But Jay Gruden’s big issue in my opinion has always been that his teams have looked woefully unprepared at the times they shouldn’t.  Dress rehearsal game?  Trash.  Week 17 against a team with a losing record, to make the playoffs?  Trash.  First game of the season, EVERY FRIGGIN YEAR?  Trash.  Yeah, the Broncos were just a preseason game, but it was a preseason game for them too.  At some point or another, I’m no longer ok with a coach falling back on “Well I have to do a better job preparing the guys,  That’s on me.”  Maybe I’m exaggerating, but I would put money on the fact that I’ve heard that speech at least 3-4 times a year since Jay showed up.  Preseason or no, I watched this game expecting to see an NFL level effort, and I didn’t get it.  And when it’s the whole team getting mashed, that’s the coaches fault, and I’m done giving Jay a pass.  What should Gruden be judged on this season?  “Just win, baby.”

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1 hour ago, browntim16 said:

For any other coach, any other team, any other year, I would generally just say, “who cares how they looked, it’s preseason”.  But Jay Gruden’s big issue in my opinion has always been that his teams have looked woefully unprepared at the times they shouldn’t.  Dress rehearsal game?  Trash.  Week 17 against a team with a losing record, to make the playoffs?  Trash.  First game of the season, EVERY FRIGGIN YEAR?  Trash.  Yeah, the Broncos were just a preseason game, but it was a preseason game for them too.  At some point or another, I’m no longer ok with a coach falling back on “Well I have to do a better job preparing the guys,  That’s on me.”  Maybe I’m exaggerating, but I would put money on the fact that I’ve heard that speech at least 3-4 times a year since Jay showed up.  Preseason or no, I watched this game expecting to see an NFL level effort, and I didn’t get it.  And when it’s the whole team getting mashed, that’s the coaches fault, and I’m done giving Jay a pass.  What should Gruden be judged on this season?  “Just win, baby.”

 

In four seasons with the Redskins, Jay is 3-1 in week 3 of the preseason.

I can understand you being upset, but no need to push it too far away here. Real football starts in November.

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1 hour ago, browntim16 said:

For any other coach, any other team, any other year, I would generally just say, “who cares how they looked, it’s preseason”.  But Jay Gruden’s big issue in my opinion has always been that his teams have looked woefully unprepared at the times they shouldn’t.  Dress rehearsal game?  Trash.  Week 17 against a team with a losing record, to make the playoffs?  Trash.  First game of the season, EVERY FRIGGIN YEAR?  Trash.  Yeah, the Broncos were just a preseason game, but it was a preseason game for them too.  At some point or another, I’m no longer ok with a coach falling back on “Well I have to do a better job preparing the guys,  That’s on me.”  Maybe I’m exaggerating, but I would put money on the fact that I’ve heard that speech at least 3-4 times a year since Jay showed up.  Preseason or no, I watched this game expecting to see an NFL level effort, and I didn’t get it.  And when it’s the whole team getting mashed, that’s the coaches fault, and I’m done giving Jay a pass.  What should Gruden be judged on this season?  “Just win, baby.”

 

This long paragraph is all the better reason to enjoy the suck right now. This slap in the face is the best way to ensure that the real test in week 1, they will be hungry and prepared. There are too many strong willed, aging vets to let players around them be complacent and soft. 

 

You will see. You will ALL SEE, and for your doubts, be very very sorry!

 

giphy.webp

 

 

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8 hours ago, HardcoreZorn said:

Everyone good enough to make it to the league are capable of those things. It's about bringing a bunch of millionaires together collectively and having them buy in and work hard enough to win a Lombardi. So no, not most overrated job in professional sports. No job in professional sports is easy.

 

I didn’t say it was easy.  I’m not diminishing the job they have to do.  But IMO head coaches get way too much blame and credit for things they cannot control.

 

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10 hours ago, Jumbo said:

 

 :D you really think i don't know the rules or did that carelessly?   

 

watch (especially since i heavily rewrote rule 5 myself

 

now i know the part of the rule you're thinking of; here's what you're missing

 

from rule 5


 

 

(read the rest of rule for all context)

 

and 

 

  

 

:D

 

and then

  

 

so here's the relevant part of 18 :D


 

 

 

so see what you did? :D

 

 

ok---truth is i just did all this for the same reason i used "stupid' in the first place---just to **** with you for old times sake :P

 

which is a rule 12 violation :ols:

 

 

Now you’re just breaking the rule about spamming. Joking on both posts incase it isn’t coming off that way.

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6 hours ago, Wildbunny said:

 

What is a not wasted preseason?

 

Preseason to me is to evaluate players, evaluate the playbooks. Plays that works, plays that don't. Plays that players are not getting... See who's good, who's a try hard guy, and so on...

 

So I never put too much stock on starters play level during the preseason, because their jobs mostly is to go through it uinjured. Which leads to go for safe tackling, don't do anything fancy, if you miss, just miss, don't take risks. Especially with our injury history last year. Play the game, make not mistake, but play it 80% or stuff like that. 2nd, 3rd or 4th stringers are more fired up because they want to impress coaches and make the team...

 

So really, a wasted preseason... Doesn't looks like it to me so far, and preseason games are not telling the story at all. The last two years, Ravens went 4-0 in Preseason and ended up 8-8, 9-7, out of playoffs. in 2015 they went 1-3 and made the playoffs. Bill Bellichick in 42-34 with the Patriots. Reid? 37-41 since 2003.

And Damn, his 1st year, Jay was 3-1 in preseason... 4-12 during the season.

 

Oh, do you know the best part of preseason?

Two teams started 4-0 in 2008's and 2017's preseasons. That is the Detroit Lions and Cleveland Browns.

Their record at the end of the regular season?

 

You guessed it: 0-16

 

Nobody cares about the record, especially me. But just putting the starters on field so we say we did isn't worth it.  And pulling them early had our backups over matched.  We didn't make most of this, has nothing to do with winning the game.

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4 hours ago, browntim16 said:

.  But Jay Gruden’s big issue in my opinion has always been that his teams have looked woefully unprepared at the times they shouldn’t. 

 

This is my biggest problem with Gruden,also. Sometimes we come out firing on all cylinders, and other times, it's as if we're saying, " Oh. You meant we have a game today ! "

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3 hours ago, Wildbunny said:

 

In four seasons with the Redskins, Jay is 3-1 in week 3 of the preseason.

I can understand you being upset, but no need to push it too far away here. Real football starts in November.

But if you’re 2-6 heading into November because you aren’t prepared to start the season, does it matter?

 

with one exception in 2015, Jay’s teams have started and finished slowly.  Last years wins after they were eliminated don’t count as a strong finish, and they lost the final meaningless game anyway.

 

when you have that fact pattern, it’s justifiable to question how the team is prepared for the season.  

 

However, you can’t jusge anything until after the real games start. 

 

But I can say I’m somewhat concerned Smith got 8 pass attempts and didn’t even finish out the first half.  That’s concerning given history of starting slow in the regular season.

 

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1 minute ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

But if you’re 2-6 heading into November because you aren’t prepared to start the season, does it matter?

 

with one exception in 2015, Jay’s teams have started and finished slowly.  Last years wins after they were eliminated don’t count as a strong finish, and they lost the final meaningless game anyway.

 

when you have that fact pattern, it’s justifiable to question how the team is prepared for the season.  

 

However, you can’t jusge anything until after the real games start. 

 

But I can say I’m somewhat concerned Smith got 8 pass attempts and didn’t even finish out the first half.  That’s concerning given history of starting slow in the regular season.

 

 

This.

 

Kirk was getting a huge amount of blame for the team starting slow, but when you look at how Gruden doesn't get the team ready, especially with a new QB coming in, You have to point the blame at the HC.

 

 

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I don't know how you can't be ready to play. Saw guys trying to make open field tackles by chipping at the legs or throwing a shoulder at the runner's hips instead of squaring up in front and at least slow the runner (yes..they were in front of the runner and chipped as they ran by??). Saw HUGE holes in the Zone coverage (especially the 3rd and 14 completion) where no skin was withing 5 yards at the 1st down marker. The front 7 push died with many of them being stood-up and bending backwards

 

I could care less about the score or preseason and vanilla game plan..but *I* didn't see allot of intensity and effort (as compared to Denver). Looked like night and day between the two clubs (except for AP). Alex was OK for 8 attempts...JUST missed VD on the 3rd down...perfect ball placement..had beat the D and just shy a step- If that was Reed he'd still be running.

 

Maybe Alex is working with allot in practice Reed/Crowder and his timing is off with a slower VD??

 

Maybe I'm blind and the effort was there..I just didn't see it that way.

 

 

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27 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

This.

 

Kirk was getting a huge amount of blame for the team starting slow, but when you look at how Gruden doesn't get the team ready, especially with a new QB coming in, You have to point the blame at the HC.

 

 

Gruden and Kirk were equally responsible. Kirk should have been layin into guys who messed up on O if he's the leader. I expect Alex to do that even if Jay is not. Jay needed some "chucky"..I always have said that.

 

You watch Brady, Rogers get in people's faces all the time

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14 minutes ago, The Hangman- C_Hanburger said:

I don't know how you can't be ready to play. Saw guys trying to make open field tackles by chipping at the legs or throwing a shoulder at the runner's hips instead of squaring up in front and at least slow the runner (yes..they were in front of the runner and chipped as they ran by??). Saw HUGE holes in the Zone coverage (especially the 3rd and 14 completion) where no skin was withing 5 yards at the 1st down marker. The front 7 push died with many of them being stood-up and bending backwards

 

I could care less about the score or preseason and vanilla game plan..but *I* didn't see allot of intensity and effort (as compared to Denver). Looked like night and day between the two clubs (except for AP). Alex was OK for 8 attempts...JUST missed VD on the 3rd down...perfect ball placement..had beat the D and just shy a step- If that was Reed he'd still be running.

 

Maybe Alex is working with allot in practice Reed/Crowder and his timing is off with a slower VD??

 

Maybe I'm blind and the effort was there..I just didn't see it that way.

 

 

 

I agree, it looked like Denver wanted it more, and it looked like they played harder. A lot of bad tackling on our Defense.

 

Disagree about Davis. If that was Reed, that ball is 2 steps away, not one. Davis still has elite speed, Reed is not as fast.

 

I think the reason Davis was getting so many looks, is that he's the only guy that Smith knows, they played together for several seasons in San Fran, and they were pretty deadly there. He's more comfortable with Davis than anyone here. The lack of actual game snaps is not helping him, either.

4 minutes ago, The Hangman- C_Hanburger said:

Gruden and Kirk were equally responsible. Kirk should have been layin into guys who messed up on O if he's the leader. I expect Alex to do that even if Jay is not. Jay needed some "chucky"..I always have said that.

 

You watch Brady, Rogers get in people's faces all the time

 

Alex isn't that kind of guy, either. And the QB has no say on how much playing time they get in the preseason.

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